I understand and agree with wanting fixed camera angles, but why do you want pre-tendered backgrounds specifically? The RE Engine should be capable of some incredibly detailed real-time environments for RE2, and it also allows for more interactive environments, more dynamic camera angles, etc. It also makes it easier to port for the inevitable remasters and such in the future.
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Resident Evil 2 Remake : Is it cancel?
- Thread starter Just_one
- Start date
I understand and agree with wanting fixed camera angles, but why do you want pre-tendered backgrounds specifically? The RE Engine should be capable of some incredibly detailed real-time environments for RE2, and it also allows for more interactive environments, more dynamic camera angles, etc. It also makes it easier to port for the inevitable remasters and such in the future.
It doesn't seem like most people would be happen with RE4's perspective, though. It's possible that it's just a vocal minority, but it really does seem like the majority of the fan base wants this game to be true to the original, at easy on terms of having the fixed camera angles. Also, adding both perspectives, and having them both work in a way that please both Action and Classic fans just doesn't seem feasible. I have to imagine one or the other is the only real option here.
supernormal
Member
Give me 16K pre-rendered animated background with an irresponsable amount of detail. This is basically the only opportunity we'll get to see a game made in that style with today's tech. I don't wanna get my hopes up....but who am I kidding.
I will be hyped and probably disappointed.
I will be hyped and probably disappointed.
Jawmuncher
Member
Realistically. The "fixed camera only" group will be the easiest group to ignore from a financial perspective. Since third person could allow for more people to buy it and that doesn't negate the horror or item management. It just changes how it's given. A shift in perspective and layout of the RPD doesn't suddenly mean it can't be survival horror after all.
I'm assuming capcom looks at the series as more scary or action rather than the gameplay perspective itself.
I'm assuming capcom looks at the series as more scary or action rather than the gameplay perspective itself.
Vampire On Titus
Member
If they actually did this it would be so good.
The older games do play well though, and you don't need Tank Controls with a fixed camera perspective either.
They don't play well, though. We put up with the controls. I love those games but anyone who says they play well is kidding themselves. I love RE4 and I think those controls are bad too.
TRUE ORDER
Member
I like the gameplay of almost all the games, older and the lastest but I really hope we get something like REmake did.
Can't agree. I never "put up" with anything. I think the older games are fantastic. I love not being able to move and shoot, and the tension that comes along with it. I love lock-on aiming, as it means you'll almost never miss a shot (ensuring the devs can very carefully balance a game around specific/strict amounts of ammo), and it ensures you'll never lose track of an enemy off-screen. I also never had an issue Tank controls (I always thought it was a very simple and intuitive control scheme, personally), and games like Silent Hill 2 and 3, Devil May Cry, God of War, RE: Outbreak, etc. all show that standard analog controls are also very much possible with a fixed perspective (REmake HD and RE0 HD are poor examples of this as these games weren't made with this control scheme in mind).
I love the older games, and I love their gameplay. I can't agree with anyone that says they're outdated or obsolete, the same way I can't agree with anyone who says 3D Platformers and Turn Based Strategy games are obsolete.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Or they just genuinely disagree. Classic Resident Evil plays great.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
What are "bad controls"? The control schemes in the classic Resident Evil games give you more than enough leeway to overcome the challenges they confront you with. If they are perfectly responsible, intuitive, and don't inhibit skilled players from completing the game, then aren't they good controls by any definition?
Jawmuncher
Member
They don't play bad for what they are. The games are made around the control scheme.
however
Said control scheme and style these days doesn't seem to gel with the masses as easily as it did back then. It's different here since this is an enthusiast forum. But just looking at more casual comments on REmake when it went free on PS+ was enough proof that a lot of people would skip the game entirely if they returned to that style. More so than those who would skip it if it didn't have tank controls and fixed camera.
I personally don't have a horse in this race since I'll play whatever is offered. But I can understand capcom's angle on the game especially if it's turned into a more AAA affair and has a budget on par with RE7 or something.
however
Said control scheme and style these days doesn't seem to gel with the masses as easily as it did back then. It's different here since this is an enthusiast forum. But just looking at more casual comments on REmake when it went free on PS+ was enough proof that a lot of people would skip the game entirely if they returned to that style. More so than those who would skip it if it didn't have tank controls and fixed camera.
I personally don't have a horse in this race since I'll play whatever is offered. But I can understand capcom's angle on the game especially if it's turned into a more AAA affair and has a budget on par with RE7 or something.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The just need to keep the original renders or just render them to absurd resolutions for future-proofs.
The level of detail you can accomplish with pre-rendered backgrounds is still unparalleled, and they can use all these freee resources on higher quality lightning and character models...
Also that style needs a proper send-off, I want to see how good can look with today tech.
Silent Hill
Banned
It does mean that it can't be RE2. At least, not as it was designed. The combat would be entirely different and none of the enemies or bosses would work as intended; they'd have to be entirely remade for the new perspective. The strategies and mechanics in the original would basically be thrown out in favor of newly created mechanics, which is a problem since...
...Capcom has never pulled that off. People keep saying "you can do over the shoulder and still make it scary!" and yet we've gotten 5 over the shoulder entries with exactly 0 of them being scary or atmospheric in the same way as the original games, even when they're trying to be in the case of the Revelations 1 and 2. You can point to Dead Space if you want, but that's a very different game designed by different people from the ground up for that perspective. You can't take RE2 and mangle it into the same kind of experience, and it's modern Capcom making this. We thoroughly know what their over the shoulder horror is like at this point.
I agree that fixed cameras are the more important thing. Prerendering isn't really necessary since modern consoles can do even better than REmake level visuals in realtime. It would also help us avoid debacles like the REmake HD remaster's upscaled 480p backdrops. I'm not saying prerendering would be bad, because there are a lot of advantages to it, but it makes the game age in a more complicated way that realtime visuals won't.
supernormal
Member
I never understood how "tank controls = bad/clunky" perception came about. Did people not play Onimusha? Fast-paced, character action game, that played with....you guessed it - tank controls.
If your game is well designed around the way it controls, it will play/control fine.
If your game is well designed around the way it controls, it will play/control fine.
CharminUltra
Member
Mother 3
Son Of Sparda
Member
In regards to camera perspective, people who look at REmake and say that Capcom should just do that with REmake 2, need to remember that REmake came out back in 2002. The game was modernized and brought up to the standards of the series in 2002.
REmake 2 is not in that exact situation. The standards of the genre/series have changed a lot in the past decades. They have to treat REmake 2 like a 2018/2019 game, because that's the reality of it. Releasing REmake 2 for current gen consoles, is not the same as re-releasing a REmake from 2002. For one, they are most likely gonna charge $60 for this and they have to convince people (not only hardcore RE fans but mainstream audience) that this game is worth that price. So REmake 2 has to be brought up to modern standards and like it or not, that means that at the very least there has to be a TPS option for camera, and the game has to be made with that option in mind. (in regards to enemy design, difficulty, controls, item placement, etc)
REmake 2 is not in that exact situation. The standards of the genre/series have changed a lot in the past decades. They have to treat REmake 2 like a 2018/2019 game, because that's the reality of it. Releasing REmake 2 for current gen consoles, is not the same as re-releasing a REmake from 2002. For one, they are most likely gonna charge $60 for this and they have to convince people (not only hardcore RE fans but mainstream audience) that this game is worth that price. So REmake 2 has to be brought up to modern standards and like it or not, that means that at the very least there has to be a TPS option for camera, and the game has to be made with that option in mind. (in regards to enemy design, difficulty, controls, item placement, etc)
Jawmuncher
Member
That's a good thing.
Means a mod has hope in it's return and said return not being botched.
I want you to look me in the eyes and say that RE4 wasn't scary/atmospheric. We wouldn't even have Dead Space without RE4.
encephalon
Member
Fair enough, but I do personally think real-time is better overall, and it's probably the way they'll go with the game running on the RE engine.
I agree with this completely. I haven't played a single over the shoulder game that felt like a proper Survival Horror experience. Perhaps it can be done, but... no one's done it yet. Dead Space is even further removed from Classic RE, since it just straight up let's you but ammo, lol.
Also, as I've said before, I think giving the player the ability to aim can really compromise a Survival Horror game, because once you give the player the ability to aim, you give them the ability to miss, and then you have to balance the game around that fact (more plentiful ammo, enemies dropping ammo, buying ammo, dynamic difficulty, etc.). The brilliance of the combat in the older games is that it took player skill out of the equation (aside from positioning) in favor of putting the focus on ammo management. "What weapon should I use on this enemy?", " do I have enough ammo? ", "should I even fight this enemy?", etc., and it allowed the devs to put strict limits on ammo, without concern for players missing all their shots and screwing themselves over. Just giving the player the ability to aim changes everything, IMO.
It's not that simple. Which is why people weren't so thrilled with 3D Secret of Mana and its inflated $40 price. Making RE2 shittier and charging more money for it doesn't help them sell copies. You don't toss out a classic game's mechanics in a remake just because they don't fit the current trends. People are buying a remake of a classic because it's a classic. The gameplay holds up extremely well; it's the visuals and PS1 hardware limitations that have held the game back.
People have been demanding a remake in the same style as REmake because that game was so well done and still holds up so well, which is why it set a record as the fastest selling digital game on PSN. Obviously, this kind of game can still sell and it was for that very reason that this game was finally greenlit.
An over the shoulder remake doesn't instantly mean the game sells more, because you'd be alienating a large part of that audience that's been waiting for this game for so long (the same audience that made REmake HD remaster a success). And there would be no guarantee the action fans would make up for the loss if this really is a faithful remake that's slower paced and based on horror, rather than rolling around on the ground with two pistols. By going over the shoulder, Capcom runs a risk of making a game that doesn't truly appeal to anyone.
Jawmuncher
Member
At least theoretically we see the game in what less than 10 hours if it's in the TGS conference?
How About No
Member
or they forgot about it existing...:|
I understand what you're saying, but I don't entirely agree, and again point to the Crash Collection (a fully fledged remake of three separate games). Despite having what many considered "dated/obsolete" gameplay , it sold like hotcakes. Why? Nostalgia, and passion for a genre that had fallen out of favor and popularity in the current gaming landscape. I believe such nostalgia and passion also exists for old-school Survival Horror games, and especially RE2 most of all.
encephalon
Member
Now we just have to wait to see who won. And what won.
Please be a horror game.
Please be a horror game.
To be fair, we've never seen Racoon's fall/RE zombie apocalypse scalation in third person, that alone seems like an interesting proposition.
I still beleive we're getting both. There's no reason why not.
Very well said! Bravo, good sir/madam! 👏👏👏
We can only hope.
I'm a horror RE fan and I say no to classic only too. Third person horror is possible, and 2 is a bit action oriented so i think why not, if they do not go overboard.
Your last suggestion is trash, keep that for thrash games, like 6.
What about roundhouse kicks?
But the TPS REs are the best sold ones, so how large?
/s
RE6 is the best selling RE game at nearly 8 million sold. RE2 sold six million, so it isn't far off really. The sales of later games like REmake fell off, but there are other factors that need to be considered there as well (fatigue, GameCube exclusivity, etc.).
Uh, RE4 has the suplex too, y'know...
Here hoping a TPS REmake 2 with paced down and more about atmosphere and real 3D with readaptation of puzzles and polishing here and there
You should suplex that salt.
You should suplex that salt.
Action RE selling more is not something to be surprised about. The masses like action, RE4 was fantastic and 5 was like that, in co op, which was really fun.
6 is really trash, but it carried lots of goodwill and a hardcore fanbase. A weird bunch, but a bunch nontheless.
That doesn't give Capcom the permission to bastardize a game that was built on fear, escalation and desperation.
6 is really trash, but it carried lots of goodwill and a hardcore fanbase. A weird bunch, but a bunch nontheless.
That doesn't give Capcom the permission to bastardize a game that was built on fear, escalation and desperation.
4 was also masterfully designed. 6 was not. I'm not sure "design" was a thing in that game.
You bolded the wrong part:
RE4 is scary in its own way. But Capcom themselves have detailed how it's very different than the original games- it's more based on tension and adrenaline, usually as a result of getting swarmed and overwhelmed by enemies. It's a very immediate kind of fear that usually comes from the circumstances of the combat. The fixed camera games were often at their scariest when no enemies were present and it was just the strength of the music and visuals driving the fear, or when the tension came from being low on resources and not knowing what kind of danger may be in the next rooms. The fear didn't ever really come from fighting itself, but from the dread of the possibility of having to fight. That's a very different kind of feeling, and no, none of the modern style games have captured it. And I even like all of the over the shoulder games aside from RE6, which was and is a shitpile.
This is what a lot of people don't seem to understand. Even in the original PS1 Resident Evil, it was possible to have faster ,more maneuverable characters, but Shinji Mikami wanted them to remain limited because that forces players to use strategy to survive. When you can't rely on your weapons to get you out of every situation, you have to be more tactful and make smarter decisions. It's not about running around blasting things, but about avoiding combat as much as possible and conserving resources until they absolutely have to be used. The tank controls work really well within that kind of gameplay, since they place the emphasis on positioning and strategy- like you said, using the right gun at the right time, and being positioned in just the right way to get the biggest effect from the shot.
What does an over the shoulder system, especially one like RE6's, add to that kind of game? Would being able to land headshots consistently or shoot enemies from any long distance make RE2 better? Or would it unbalance the game and kill the tension? Would roundhouse kicking zombies to death make this game scarier? Would it make those enemies more threatening if your character could run up and hit them without any repercussion? Did the ability to see and shoot lickers freely, from any range with any weapon, make them a better, scarier enemy in RE5? Or did it neuter them and take away everything that made them a memorable enemy?
None of this shit helps RE2's game design in any way. In fact, it would pretty much wreck it in most cases; like I said, the game would have to be redesigned to suit these controls, and it's just not possible to preserve the same kind of tension and horror in that perspective because it's a fundamentally different kind of gameplay.
Well, it's called Remake for a reason, is not a remaster. Of course there will be changes and innovation, at least I hope and I disagree completely, you can have better horror, proper horror in TPS perspective more than fixed cameras
I wouldnt quote the RE4 is scary part because no
Is that what people having been asking for over the last 15 years? A different game, because they don't like the way RE2 plays?
There can be changes and innovation in the original perspective; look at how much REmake improved over the original, all while keeping the gameplay that people loved intact.
If you want to say the horror can be better and "proper" in over the shoulder... give me some examples. And again, specifically examples from Capcom, the people making this game. Becuase over the shoulder sure as hell didn't improve the horror in 5, 6, and Rev1 and 2. And even in the case of RE4, the one objectively great over the shoulder game, there's a hell of a lot to argue over when it comes to whether the "horror" was better.
Because you can't always rely in what worked once to give the same experience all the time, put resident evil as example, code veronica happened and capcom and the fans wanted something new
Hell, if they just make this into a full game but with proper camera in the shoulder and RE 2 as setting and story I will just cry
I think a producer really wanted to make it so he pitched it and it got greenlit
no one can cancel my feelings