REmake HD showed that there's a market for classic RE, tank controls and all. That's what I'd want in a remake of 2.
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Resident Evil 2 Remake : Is it cancel?
- Thread starter Just_one
- Start date
REmake HD showed that there's a market for classic RE, tank controls and all. That's what I'd want in a remake of 2.
You mean a company with no more survival horror games? Kind of unfair petition huh?
Check my posts in this thread and you will find some fine tps horror with massive appealing for fans
Of course theres a market, RE0 alone sold almost a million copies! That's amazing, but the thing is why sell under a million when you could sell 4-5 M, Capcom is a company after all
It showed that there was a market for nostalgia, and that HD remasters already made games are low risk
Because of artistic integrity and respect for the foundation a work of art is built on.
It's obvious action RE fans don't give a shit about the classics, that's ok, but then leave them out of your juvenile fantasies. No need to stupidify RE2 to 6 level.
papercan55
Member
Amen....
Imagine square enix seeing capcom go back to pre-rendered backgrounds, the game selling great and they decide to go back to ff7/8/9 style final fantasy games.....
They would look better in my eyes and would take far less time to develop.
Jawmuncher
Member
Yeah I think that's Capcom's worry. 1+ million in sales for both REmake and RE0 separately is damn good. But does said amount of sales translate if they made a game in that style and want say 4 million + again like RE7 and priced at $60?
Capcom being as conscious as they are, are probably wary of that. RE7 all things considered isn't as risky as it would seem. half the budget was made for the engine itself. During the time from RE6 to RE7 First Person horror games surged. Especially in the indie scene. So offering what is essentially the only AAA entry in that space (Outside Alien Isolation) and with one of the biggest brand names was going to work out (Unless reviews were bad but that wasn't a factor) Then there was the thirst of the cancelled PT that probably held at least a little.
IMO RE2 is the worst out of RE1-3 lol (Though they're all good games still just i'd rank it the lowesr of those 3 PS1 titles).
Regardless if this were to become third person I wouldn't expect RE6 style shenanigans. I would think there would be some melee though.
Mainly of the pushing and kicking variety. Leon is a rookie cop during RE2 so they can play into him not being a full-on "hero" character yet.
Capcom being as conscious as they are, are probably wary of that. RE7 all things considered isn't as risky as it would seem. half the budget was made for the engine itself. During the time from RE6 to RE7 First Person horror games surged. Especially in the indie scene. So offering what is essentially the only AAA entry in that space (Outside Alien Isolation) and with one of the biggest brand names was going to work out (Unless reviews were bad but that wasn't a factor) Then there was the thirst of the cancelled PT that probably held at least a little.
IMO RE2 is the worst out of RE1-3 lol (Though they're all good games still just i'd rank it the lowesr of those 3 PS1 titles).
Regardless if this were to become third person I wouldn't expect RE6 style shenanigans. I would think there would be some melee though.
Mainly of the pushing and kicking variety. Leon is a rookie cop during RE2 so they can play into him not being a full-on "hero" character yet.
Isn't that basically Bravely Default?
Tone down your written because you are derrailing, you are not offering nothing to the conversation and honestly is hard to take seriously someone who is down playing the rest because preferences.
Sure, have the majestic and amazing artistic vision of Resident Evil 2, a two years after sequel designed to sell when the iron was hot.
I always remember when I see
Birkin
That stick, that pose... Only people with high IQ can grasp the real undertones of such a wonderful design, is not just a mutant... is a mutant with a stick.
Goosebumps, every damn time. /s
edited because I know someone will say "spoilers!" in a almost 20 yo game
How About No
Member
oh geez i hope you didn't just dis mah boi William lulu
god if RE0 scares people and Capcom off from classic style again...
god if RE0 scares people and Capcom off from classic style again...
That was the fucking shit on 1998. Context is everything. Yes, RE2 is more action oriented than 1, but it's also not some kind of power fantasy.
The usual dismissment for old RE fans by your kind was always "You could always play the old ones!", well, you can play your shooty bang bangies too. RE2 does not need wrestling moves, mother of God.
I agree with this actually. 3 sold the despair tone far better, and had great setpieces.
Still, it was really ambitious for the time. as I said, chronological context was everything. RE2 was an amazing package at the time.
WickedLaharl
Member
William can have it. Even almost a demon William can have it.
Fun enough, you are pretty much the only one implying that someone said the game should have exactly the same pew pew or that action re fans, like theres another fandom or something, say "You can play the old ones!" I mean, sure. But what's the point of moving foward?
I get what you want and I respect it and by reading your post I think we are in the same page, just dont be an ass because it maybe sound fun or smart but never comes that way
Give me a toned down re 4 controls, with more tension and atmosphere, and a rework of the classic and I will follow you everywhere
You mean a company with no more survival horror games? Kind of unfair petition huh?
Check my posts in this thread and you will find some fine tps horror with massive appealing for fans
What company should we be looking to for our indication of what an over the shoulder RE2 will be like? Companies that don't make RE games and that aren't making RE2? Capcom is making this. We have to look at their games to know how they think about horror and what their approach to over the shoulder horror is. There's no mystery about how an over the shoulder horror game by Capcom will play at this point. Maybe if another developer were making this your argument would be fair. But after getting so many modern style RE games... no.
I don't think there are any big surprises in store for us in a hypotethical RE4 style RE2 remake. Especially when you consider that people are saying it should be over the shoulder specifically because those games sold so well... if the point is to make it like 5 and 6 in particular because they were so popular, then why the hell should we expect something radical and new? If Capcom is going over the shoulder to appeal to that action base... is there any reason to believe this is going to be a curveball with total horror gameplay?
The other games you're talking about are different experiences designed from the ground up for the perspective. RE2 was designed around fixed cameras, and you can't just put it in over the shoulder and expect it to work. It wouldn't. So much of the game is tied to that perspective and the limitations of those controls that if you're going to throw that out and start over... why not make a new game? Why even bother with RE2? You've argued that you're interested in seeing a new take on the game, but wouldn't you be more interested in an entirely new game? Why shackle what is otherwise a new RE game by building it within the constraints of RE2's fixed camera game design? Wouldn't you just end up making something that is only tied to the original by superficial nostalgia, without actually delivering any of the gameplay people are actually nostalgic about?
I personally don't find anything interesting about playing a version of a classic game that doesn't have the classic gameplay, and one in which mechanics have been forced to work in a perspective that was never intended.
I had a thought about the RE series that RE7 is the first time in the main series that they have followed gameplay trends rather than pioneering them. The original trilogy pretty much invented that style of gameplay, which was quite popular in the late 90's and must have influenced Silent Hill (although they had their own version of it). Then RE4 came out and, while I didn't like it, the influence of that game has been gigantic - many of the biggest games of the past decade follow directly on from it and there are still horror/action games being released now with the same essential gameplay formula.
RE7 is more of an imitation of a style of first person horror adventure games that have been popular for a number of years now. I liked the game, I mean it was okay, but it isn't original in any way, so I suppose that's why I didn't have a strong reaction to it. Felt like I'd seen it all before. I did prefer it to every Resident Evil game since RE4, though.
As for what the RE2 remake should be like - it should be like the RE1 remake, simple. Update the graphics, improve the gameplay a bit, and expand the areas. Maybe some extra story stuff, too. Keep the fixed perspective as much as possible it is absolutely central to those early Resident Evil games and nobody else is doing it anymore. The RE1 remake is widely considered the best done remake out of them all, so since they have another piece of work just sitting there which totally befits the same treatment, they should do that.
RE7 is more of an imitation of a style of first person horror adventure games that have been popular for a number of years now. I liked the game, I mean it was okay, but it isn't original in any way, so I suppose that's why I didn't have a strong reaction to it. Felt like I'd seen it all before. I did prefer it to every Resident Evil game since RE4, though.
As for what the RE2 remake should be like - it should be like the RE1 remake, simple. Update the graphics, improve the gameplay a bit, and expand the areas. Maybe some extra story stuff, too. Keep the fixed perspective as much as possible it is absolutely central to those early Resident Evil games and nobody else is doing it anymore. The RE1 remake is widely considered the best done remake out of them all, so since they have another piece of work just sitting there which totally befits the same treatment, they should do that.
See, this is where we meet. 4 is the perfect balance. Suplex and all. maybe we can ommit that part in 2 because he's a rookie and all haha.
Sorry for the tone, didn't mean to sound rude. I sound like.. always angry, for some reason.
Yes, but that's a dead end, you asked me for examples I gave it to you because whatever reason to nulify the argument against it, of course ReMake 2 will have a rework, why dont change what will not work nowadays and get that segment of the fanbase who is active and will buy the game?
Talking about numbers here
Nah, man its cool, next time just check what I had said because that exact same post is what I have been saying for pages now ಥ‿ಥ and you down played me for whatever reason ಥ‿ಥ I hope Claire gets a finishing move NJPW worth just for revenge
I didn't feel this way actually. Like, it was first person,. yeah, but it felt and played like RE1. Amnesia our Outlast it is not.
It's actually the most radical "return to the roots" I've ever witnessed.
I'm a huge action RE fan, and I care about the Classics. :/
How About No
Member
Leon's RE6 campaign is basically RE2 revisioned as an action game anyway lol
Claire is a Redfield, she's allowed to punch any boulders she might want to in my book.
You love REmake, why don't you want more REmake feeligns?
But then you have to answer this:
You can't just say "action fans will buy it because it's over the shoulder." It has to be an action game for that to happen, and if RE2 ends up being like the kind of hypothetical dream game you're proposing- a genuine horror game in over the shoulder that does deliver the kind of feelings the original did- would those shooter fans be interested in it? That's not a given, and my guess would be "not really."
The fanbase that has been asking for a faithful remake is a sure thing. It's clear what they want, it's clear how to make a great remake that will satisfy them, and the Remake and 0 HD remasters have demonstrated that they're a substantial enough audience to make a classic style remake practical... that's why this is even being made. It may not sell 7 million copies at launch, but it'll sell a few million and Capcom will have a game that people will still talk about and care about decades down the road. Risking that in favor of watering down the game to try to get RE5/6 fans onboard for some quick sales seems like a bad idea to me.
That's the problem. You can have Leon using his VP70 handgun to shoot shuffling zombies in a creaky old building, but if the gameplay doesn't reflect what made RE2 great then it's all superficial nostalgia. The surface resemblance to RE2 wasn't worth a thing in RE6- that university sequence is all bullshit compared to RE2. I imagine an over the shoulder RE2 playing pretty much like the start of Leon's RE6 campaign, just toned down and with fewer explosions.
Remake 2 looking good whew
I swear to god, that I need to make like 100000 puns with punch in the RE 7 Gold OT
FUCKING LEON, THE FIRST DAY AND YOU ALREADY KILL THE PRESDENT >:C
I can't argue with someone who doesn't want to argue. I just hope you get the same thing as I want, an enjoyable RE, have fun in the loop
Uh... How am I not arguing? I directly addressed your argument with a counter argument- that trying to appeal to the more active shooter fanbase wouldn't work if they also end up making the kind of pure horror game you're advocating for. You're the one who has chosen not to respond.
It doesn't really matter to me if RE2 remake is just "enjoyable." The Revelations games were "enjoyable" to me, but they're nothing special. I don't want them to blow this opportunity to deliver another all time classic like REmake by doing something that's just "OK."
"BUT THE ATMOSPHERE"
I said after diying in the same spot four times in a row because I can't properly control a game in 2018
It feels good to be back
How About No
Member
lol @ shooting the crows
you run through that shit and forget about them
That said when you were actually forced to fight an airborne enemy in RE0 (the Giant Bat) it was fucking awful
GlassAwful
Member
Third person behind the back couldn't be designed to work with the RE2 scenario without tons of trade offs. You can't do tight spaces, you give the player too much spacial awareness and combat ability. First person is the best compromise for taking old RE scenarios in a new direction.
My personal take is full 3d graphics remake with classic camera angles and traditional gameplay with auto aim combat and then an optional first person style like RE7 where the enemies are more actively bobbing and weaving for the extra challenge. No idea if it could be balanced correctly but this is what I'm hoping for.
My personal take is full 3d graphics remake with classic camera angles and traditional gameplay with auto aim combat and then an optional first person style like RE7 where the enemies are more actively bobbing and weaving for the extra challenge. No idea if it could be balanced correctly but this is what I'm hoping for.
Silent Hill
Banned
What if the add both fixed camera and over the shoulder and you could just pick whatever suits you best? Could that work? Solves both arguments lol.
Although im not sure how good over the shoulder would feel with the RE2 layout.
Although im not sure how good over the shoulder would feel with the RE2 layout.
Vampire On Titus
Member
You stopped to fight the crows?
The game does like everything in its power to let you know avoiding enemies is necessary with that intro...
Why would you stop to fight the crows?
Im just giving an example. How about the dogs that can jump from offscreen and attack you? Or hunters? Or chimera? Or the bunch of others that do it. I mean, you can defend fixed camera angles and clunky controls all you want, but it doesn't mean it's scary or it's survival horror. Look at Dead Space. Or The Evil Within that a lot of people praise for some reason.
encephalon
Member
You know, you can sit here and argue about camera angles, but what I want to know is how you progress in the game.
If it's over the shoulder, with a puzzle based progression system and resource management elements, I think there's reason for fans of the classic game to be happy with it - even if it isn't 100% what they wanted.
If it's not puzzle based, no thanks I guess?
The reality is that the game has to cater to both fans of the original game and bring in new people. "New" doesn't mean "fans who want RE2 to play like RE6." It just means that the game isn't going to be developed only with those who played the 1998 game in mind. Bringing in new fans shouldn't mean creating a game that is no longer in the spirit of the original game either.
If it's over the shoulder, with a puzzle based progression system and resource management elements, I think there's reason for fans of the classic game to be happy with it - even if it isn't 100% what they wanted.
If it's not puzzle based, no thanks I guess?
The reality is that the game has to cater to both fans of the original game and bring in new people. "New" doesn't mean "fans who want RE2 to play like RE6." It just means that the game isn't going to be developed only with those who played the 1998 game in mind. Bringing in new fans shouldn't mean creating a game that is no longer in the spirit of the original game either.
Jawmuncher
Member
This only works if it's like RE 3.5
If say there was classic controls and then third person was just regular it woudln't work.
You'd have to keep Re4 style controls. Since even in a new perspective you don't want the player doing things they can't do in the other mode such as strafing.
Vampire On Titus
Member
With all those other enemies that don't swarm & overwhelm you I could always manage to get a good view. Having to shoot enemies off-screen is a flaw of the series but it's not a major one. 90% of the time I could get a good view and the rest of the time the auto-aim & audio cues are enough to reliably drop dudes.
As for the controls, I don't even agree with the premise that they're clunky. They're responsive and work well. Especially REmake's control type-c which is immaculate. I actually much prefer that to games like Devil May Cry that have fixed angles & standard controls because I dislike having to awkwardly re-adjust when the angle changes.
Big Chungus
Member
it will be episodic
3 scenarios, leon claire and hunk
3 scenarios, leon claire and hunk
Jawmuncher
Member
lol. It took awhile but they haven't been sitting on their hands that long. RE7 wrapped up so they got the shift of work after that and that was from last year around Decemeber when it was done. Before then there had to of been a crew on it as well that were doing some work.
I'd be amazed if the game isn't at the minimum like 30% done or something.
GlassAwful
Member
There are hallways in the original games not much wider than the player character and an enemy or less. The hallway in that image is much wider than the Regenerator is tall, probably ten plus feet.
You want to know why? Third person cameras and their FOV don't work well in tight, skinny spaces. Gears, RE, Ass creed, all of them do their best to avoid skinny spaces or make them and their associated doorways artificially wider to accommodate.
But good job on the completely necessary and topical reaction pic spam. Don't let anyone tell you your posts suck.
Almost?
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/finance/million.html
Resident Evil (HD Remastered) 1.9 million
Resident Evil 0 (HD Remastered) 1.4 million
Resident Evil Remake (GC) 1.35 million
Resident Evil 0 (GC) 1.25 million
GalacticAE
Member
the idea of classic RE is that you can manipulate or route the ai because they have set patterns and routines on spawn. the controls are pretty simple and the game design is also simple; spend resources like time/ammo or evade obstacles as you run to the finish point. i think of them as large puzzle games. they're not necessarily designed as an action game at all. maybe i'm just too 1337 but i don't find the controls so complicated or hard. but i do play a lot of action games with much more complicated inputs that REAL biohazard is pretty simple.
as an action game player, i think re6 is pretty interesting. it's become more of an RE themed character action game which im down for. I'd kinda like to see how capcom could evolve the formula a bit. But, as a classic biohazard fan, it's just not it. The remake of 2 should be classic formula all the way. It doesn't have to be pre-rendered anymore so maybe some camera shifts are possible but it shouldn't be another character action game.
as an action game player, i think re6 is pretty interesting. it's become more of an RE themed character action game which im down for. I'd kinda like to see how capcom could evolve the formula a bit. But, as a classic biohazard fan, it's just not it. The remake of 2 should be classic formula all the way. It doesn't have to be pre-rendered anymore so maybe some camera shifts are possible but it shouldn't be another character action game.
LUXURY
Member
I mean, yeah, I think it's been worked on for a while, but I don't think we will be seeing any sort of a release date until at least Q2 2018.
GalacticAE
Member
if we do see it at tgs, it'll probably be some beta version they're gonna scrap at the last minute. nothing is real until it's in our hands
"BUT THE ATMOSPHERE"
I said after diying in the same spot four times in a row because I can't properly control a game in 2018
It feels good to be back
Like others have said, if you actually stopped and tried to shoot instead of just running from the obviously overwhelming threat then you are responsible for those deaths. I have to reiterate everything I've said above... these games are about good decision making, resource conservation, and avoidance of combat. If you chose to stop and blow all your ammo in the middle of a swarm of hard to hit enemies, you made a bad decision, wasted resources, and willfully engaged in unnecessary combat. That's why you died four times.
It was always clear to me in moments like that that the game was saying "Get the fuck out of here." That room has been compromised and you need to avoid it from now on or take a huge risk by re-entering. That was part of the challenge; your routes would be altered or cut off by unexpected threats. The crimson heads in REmake were a great example of escalating this same basic idea. If you had the ability to dodge, roll and precisely shoot down every crow with ease, would that make the game be better than having to run in panic and adjust your entire approach to navigating?
Are you... referencing The Evil Within as a good example of horror, while simultaneously saying it's not good? What were you saying with that?
I also have to ask if this was a real problem for you in the old games. Were you constantly getting attacked by offscreen enemies? Because while it happens to me in a few very rare instances, 99% of the time you have enough awareness of enemies to know when to be cautious and take it slow. If you hear a licker breathing, you should know not to just run blindly into the next camera angle. Likewise, dogs always make a clicking sound and zombies will make shuffling sounds when they move; if they're not moving and not making a sound, then they're probably not going to be at a camera angle change waiting to bite you- Capcom never places them there. As long as you're paying attention to all of the sounds, you can assume where enemies might be pretty reliably and have the appropriate weapon ready.
This almost reminds me of complaints about head bonking when zora swimming in Majora's Mask. It happens, sure, but it's almost always down to player error.
4. It's made by modern Capcom so everything is up in the air
They probably announced the game too soon while it was basically a bunch of doodles on someone's lunch napkin. They are using their new RE Engine which they've used for a First Person game in VII so it might take some time to adapt it to whatever RE2R is going to be. They are going to show it when they are ready. The dilemma of the gameplay style and mode is probably going to be difficult if the sales of VII and the 180 they did for the gameplay of the delayed DLC areof any indication.
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Edit : Control issues
RE3 does have bad controls and I stand by it. The Emergency dodge move that can trigger while aiming of all thing can lead you running in walls or running into enemy groups when you can actually finish off enemies and lose life unintentionally. Sometimes it trigger halfway so the enemies just don't fall off like they should and they grip you back and whack you. The brutal perspective change between two pre-rendered area while being chased or attack can also lead to control issues.
I hadn't thought about this actually.
I'm pretty sure a game with pre rendered backgrounds can achieve near photo realism this Gen.
Now I want this.