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[Rumor] MS to reveal VR headset at E3 2015, Fortaleza still in the development
- Thread starter Kayant
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Graphics can be tailored to achieve resolution/framerate targets.
Smash Brothers on the Wii U is 1080p/60fps.
The Lamonster
Member
It'll be called "Me2"
An "accessory bitch" that can help to completely change how people experience VR is worthless in the eyes of VR?
Galacticus
Member
It's barf inducing because the first VR headsets have terrible resolution, are 60fps, and have sub-par head tracking.
Oculus will not fail... The other guys.. Well...
Oculus will not fail... The other guys.. Well...
Perhaps the rumors have some weight:
Earlier today VRFocus reported on rumours that Microsoft was planning to reveal its own virtual reality (VR) head-mounted display (HMD) for its Xbox One console at E3 2015 next June, potentially for release later on in the year. Now VRFocus has been informed that VR developers are indeed working with an Xbox One VR HMD already. The developer kit is currently circulating a group of developers working on the console.
Several studios have confirmed to VRFocus that they are working with the device, while Techradar has also received similar information that suggests teams have already begun work on software for the kit. No specific information about the device itself or exactly which videogames are in development for it has been revealed just yet. Obviously this will pit Microsofts kit directly against the Project Morpheus HMD currently in development for the PlayStation 4, as well as Oculus VRs own Oculus Rift PC HMD.
This news wont come as much of a surprise to VR enthusiasts, who have been expecting the reveal of a Microsoft-branded HMD since the companys Head of Xbox Phil Spencer revealed that it had been working with VR technology for a while at the 2014 Game Developer Conference. 2014 has seen the companys name attached to VR plenty of times, including rumours that FOVE, a tech start up that Microsoft is heavily attached to, is looking at an Xbox One HMD with eye-tracking. Various patents have also pointed towards the companys interest in such a device. Could these reports lay the foundation for the official HMD?
Either way, its a long wait until E3 2015 and in that time both Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) and Oculus VR are likely to be sharing much more about their respective HMDs. VRFocus will be following each and every update within the VR industry, keeping you up-to-date with the latest.
http://vrfocus.com/archives/9782/developers-confirm-work-xbox-one-vr-kit/
Earlier today VRFocus reported on rumours that Microsoft was planning to reveal its own virtual reality (VR) head-mounted display (HMD) for its Xbox One console at E3 2015 next June, potentially for release later on in the year. Now VRFocus has been informed that VR developers are indeed working with an Xbox One VR HMD already. The developer kit is currently circulating a group of developers working on the console.
Several studios have confirmed to VRFocus that they are working with the device, while Techradar has also received similar information that suggests teams have already begun work on software for the kit. No specific information about the device itself or exactly which videogames are in development for it has been revealed just yet. Obviously this will pit Microsofts kit directly against the Project Morpheus HMD currently in development for the PlayStation 4, as well as Oculus VRs own Oculus Rift PC HMD.
This news wont come as much of a surprise to VR enthusiasts, who have been expecting the reveal of a Microsoft-branded HMD since the companys Head of Xbox Phil Spencer revealed that it had been working with VR technology for a while at the 2014 Game Developer Conference. 2014 has seen the companys name attached to VR plenty of times, including rumours that FOVE, a tech start up that Microsoft is heavily attached to, is looking at an Xbox One HMD with eye-tracking. Various patents have also pointed towards the companys interest in such a device. Could these reports lay the foundation for the official HMD?
Either way, its a long wait until E3 2015 and in that time both Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) and Oculus VR are likely to be sharing much more about their respective HMDs. VRFocus will be following each and every update within the VR industry, keeping you up-to-date with the latest.
http://vrfocus.com/archives/9782/developers-confirm-work-xbox-one-vr-kit/
cyberheater
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Nealand Liquor
Member
I can't wait for this tech. I fully believe this will introduce a new era gaming. Exciting times.
Doesn't the Morpheus have a higher res than the Oculus?
Kinect as it is now is worthless as a VR input device. As a depth camera, its a lot more interesting, though.
And of course if Microsoft continue development of the tech, it could well be technology we see involved much more in VR.
No. Same resolution as DK2(1920x1080).
New Oculus Rift prototype is believed to be 2560x1440.
Steverulez
Member
Not interested in any VR stuff, I hope they don't announce it at E3. Do a GDC thing for it like Sony did, I don't think it will demo well on a big stage like that and its a waste of show time to me personally.
VR definitely has a TON of challenges, and it'll be interesting to see if it can overcome them. I posted this prior to Facebook purchasing Oculus, so my optimism has changed for the better, but I'm still reluctant to consider VR an automatic success:
Having said that, I do own an Oculus Rift DK2, and I'm definitely a believer in the potential of VR. The experience is flat out amazing and I really hope that it's able to gain wide spread traction within all forms of media.
Having said that, I do own an Oculus Rift DK2, and I'm definitely a believer in the potential of VR. The experience is flat out amazing and I really hope that it's able to gain wide spread traction within all forms of media.
Galacticus
Member
I like that idea if they have to go through with it. Get the devs excited and familiar with it then that will lead to interesting consumer software to show off later.
Yeah, based on both of the dev kits. I'm not sure if the Morpheus is set.
This is the first that I'm hearing 1440p is set for the Oculus.
VR will be changing the world; Kinect will just be giving it a helping hand. Nobody is going to be like "VR and Kinect changed the world", because all VR is going to come with generic tracking cameras after this (Morpheus uses PS Eye; Oculus comes with a camera). It'll be VR changed the world.
Use even a single VR demo that has presence.
The world is changed forever. Nothing is the same. All doors open.
Kinect was like "oh...yet another wonky camera motion system for detecting my movement, sometimes accurately, and like... a billion shit mini-game compilations and party games flourished as a result. Hurray?" Now it'll just be relegated to making VR be central.
VR is like "holy fucking goddamn shit. I'm actually in outerspace. What in the great blue fuck! How is this possible!? What the hell... what the HELL!"
AdventureRacing
Member
I feel like software is going to be more important than the tech. MS won't be the only ones coming out with VR technology. The question is who will be able to showcase it in a way that makes people actually want to use it and not just become another kinect.
MeachTheMonster
Banned
This is your opinion, but some people felt and still feel that way about kinect, and some people will simply get confused and barf up their lunch from playing VR.
It's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.
One of your concerns you note there is about content creators developing for a 'small pot' and that being unappealing from a financial perspective. That is a real concern.
But that's exactly why its awesome news for MS to be joining as well. Ideally, if MS follow the route that Sony and Oculus have in terms of the headset hardware, developers have a *lot* more reason to do VR content, as that covers XB1, PS4 and PC. There was an article recently from the developer of Vanguard V(PC/Rift) who got their hands on Sony's Morpheus dev kit and had his game running adequately on Morpheus in a matter of days.
No clues necessary. They've said quite directly that 90hz will be minimum.
Dont think VR will be mainstream for a looong time. The mass market simply isn't interested in that level of immersion or escapism. I'd say its akin to a driving wheel or dedicated gaming headset - they might think it works really well and would use it if they had one but only a subsection of the market is interested in buying.
Galacticus
Member
Random story time:
In June 2014 I went to a VR meetup in Raleigh, NC at Epic Games' HQ. I was not an organizer of the event (Go Henry!) but As someone with several months of Oculus Rift DK1 experience I offered to man a demo station for an hour.
There were about 75 people in my line, and I showed all of them a single demo called Blocked In because a) the only motion is head movement and b) there are glimpses of presence.
I asked everyone if they had tried VR before the headset was strapped on and not a single person said yes. It was one of the greatest experiences I had in 2014, because almost every single one of them left that demo station with a huge smile on their face and thanked me for showing it to them.
VR is incredible and anything but a fad or gimmick, but I do not personally expect Microsoft or Sony to nail their headsets.
In June 2014 I went to a VR meetup in Raleigh, NC at Epic Games' HQ. I was not an organizer of the event (Go Henry!) but As someone with several months of Oculus Rift DK1 experience I offered to man a demo station for an hour.
There were about 75 people in my line, and I showed all of them a single demo called Blocked In because a) the only motion is head movement and b) there are glimpses of presence.
I asked everyone if they had tried VR before the headset was strapped on and not a single person said yes. It was one of the greatest experiences I had in 2014, because almost every single one of them left that demo station with a huge smile on their face and thanked me for showing it to them.
VR is incredible and anything but a fad or gimmick, but I do not personally expect Microsoft or Sony to nail their headsets.
Dirtyshubb
Member
A lot of people seem unable (Or unwilling) to understand this point. I have only used the DK1 of Rift once at a graduate recruitment event, going on the roller coaster ride around a castle and while the DK1 clearly had weaknesses it was clear how much this is gonna change things for everyone.
I myself cant understand how some of the issues mentioned are brought up at all, I think some people use things to argue that VR will never work when at most, all they are arguing is that the tech isnt fully mature right now.
Weight/size of headset
Resolution
Graphics quality
Etc.
All these things WILL get better and better, and with at least 4 companies dipping their toes into VR its only going to get better quicker because they will all be competing and technology doesnt stop improving.
The graphics argument for consoles is also ridiculous, yes a PS4 and XBO wont be able to compete graphically with the Rift and a high powered PC but that doesnt mean they cant have a truly immersive world with pretty graphics and running the best way possible (1080p/60hrz etc.). Its like for these people, unless the game is as powerful as possible while fitting the criteria needed to run well, its broken and not worth it.
They're really equally important in this situation.
You could have the idea of the century for a VR app, but if you're not running on quality hardware, it will be impressive for a brief time before making you uncomfortable, rendering the entire game/experience unenjoyable at best or completely unusable at worst.
The killer apps will come. We already have some, if you ask racing sim fans or space/flight sim fans. And some fantastic ideas are pretty much low hanging fruit just waiting for somebody to buckle down and produce it.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Some demos give people a sickly feeling in their stomach, but right now a lot of it is to do with game design -- with full head tracking, low persistence and high frame rate the majority of people are fine in a well designed demo (i.e. something that doesn't require fast first person running). I've demoed the DK2 to 50+ people, and nobody has had a problem with great demos such as Elite, Live For Speed, Sightline, Titans of Space etc. I don't think I've even seen or heard of someone actually be sick using a well calibrated DK2, and there are tens of thousands of YouTube videos of people using it. Just be sensible and don't throw people in the deep end by going "Hey, check out this VR device! I'm going to put you in a machine that spins around at 60mph".
Dirtyshubb
Member
You do know that the DK2 isnt the final version? Do you also know that many people claimed Morpheus was more comfortable than the DK2?
As for how it will work on consoles, you will plug it in, put your VR game in and then play! I know thats a hard concept to grasp for some but I assure you, it isnt pure fantasy.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The primary reason it's barf inducing is that your eyes are reporting movement to your brain, but your inner ear is reporting no movement or acceleration whatsoever. Resolution, tracking and fps won't change that in games where you're expected to move around freely.
Galacticus
Member
Sony and MS will most likely sell a lot of cameras because of their VR headsets.
MeachTheMonster
Banned
Being limited to games that don't require "fast first person running" doesn't bode well for VR's commercial success
1080p was terrible and I don't how consoles going to go above that while also providing high frame rate. Thats the part I don't know about.
It's my opinion, and as far as I can tell it's the opinion of the market too - which has so thoroughly rejected Kinect now Microsoft was forced to strip it out of their systems and now it's barely used in any way but a friggin' voice command box. Even Microsoft abandoned serious plans for Kinect development.
But it doesn't matter how our opinions are, or how popular it is. Look at the results. There have been a few decent real-world applications for the thing that could have important use, and I hope that's followed up on. And in games, it's a joke: mini-game compilations, dance games, party games. Just what we needed more of! It's self-evident where that road led us.
I was the world's biggest skeptic on VR. I criticized almost all gimmicks in the past: Move, Wiimote, Kinect. You name it. I was dissing VR too as the next big gimmick. Me and my group of friends and my sister spent our time in line for the thing laughing about how dumb it was going to be.
Every one of us walked away stunned. Like truly, mindblown in a way that so far surpassed any other tech experience I've ever had that we were literally speechless for the first minute after we left the device. As soon as we started talking, though, we didn't stop talking about it for the rest of the evening, and all the two hour ride from NYC and we still haven't stopped talking about it, it comes up at least once a day. My sister fucking hates games and she was like "holy. fucking. shit."
There is no peers for that experience. Yes, there is going to be an unfortunate minority that gets sick from it, and I truly do feel for them because this experience is the most astonishing thing in the world.
But this is going to change everything.
+ VR in the classroom; save money on field trips and visit anywhere in the world and actually feel like you're there. Watch Mt. Vesuvius erupt; watch the storming of the Bastille; watch Genghis Khan's hordes charge across the grasslands. Stand in St. Mark's Square in Venice and observe the architecture and history. Talk with Imhotep about his inspiration for designing the Step Pyramid.
+ VR conferencing. Kinect can do video conferencing, ha ha, that's so 2000's! VR can do in person conferencing, where you will actually feel like you're in the same room with the individual you're talking with. Imagine the difference in the way you can relate to others in these types of conversations? Imagine a relative you haven't seen for 30 years because she lives halfway across the world and now, thanks to VR, you can finally feel like you're there with her again. Once again: it changes everything.
+ VR Sporting Events. Can't afford going to the Olympics? Wish you were at the Superbowl? Imagine now that a sports team can sell you a "VR pass subscription" where you can, at any time there is a game, put on the headset and feel like you're straight up watching from the front row. There would be no peer to that experience. Who the fuck would want to watch the game any other way except in person?
+ VR in games. True sense of scale now. True sense of presence. Immersion... the way people always talked about it but was clearly never true before this. Imagine the potential for horror games (just plan Alien: Isolation in VR, that's enough to literally send you sweating in fear). Imagine just how deep the rabbit hole here goes. It's not just for mini-game compilations. It opens up a UNIVERSE of new possibilities in games, and a billion possible enhancements for old ones. Kinect at best helped improve the party game genre in a few very specific ways. There's no comparison.
VR is going to change the world. In 10-15 years, we'll be laughing we ever had this conversation.
Yup. That's how it is for the vast majority of people who try it for the first time. It's astonishing.
Galacticus
Member
Umm... No.
I have played Team Fortress 2 for an hour solid in the Rift DK1 and have been perfectly fine. I can play Euro Truck Simulator 2 for 3 minutes and want to lose my lunch.
graphical quality, refresh rate, and tracking accuracy are exactly the reasons why people want to barf on DK1 and less so on DK2. It's also depends on how the software is implemented per title, it's not purely a hardware solution.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I thought part of the problem with the 1080p was because of the screen type and that would be alleviated through the use of OLED etc?
With regards to frame rate it easy, you scale the graphics to a point where you can get the settings needed. It doesnt need to be PS4 quality graphics to be immersive, especially once you are actually using the headset and just playing the game.
People love to go on about games being immersive yet some are so dismissive of console VR. There is nothing more immersive (Bar holodeck technology) than a VR headset where you can move your head, look around a full developed 3D world and just go about.
Galacticus
Member
The resolution is so low that you can actually see the physical space between pixels.
In today's VR headsets, it's also one display split between your eyes. So it's 1080p vertical, and 960 horizontal.
Alx
Member
There are many reasons that can cause motion sickness. Most of them rely on having a difference between what you see and what you expect to see. Image quality or framerate can cause it, latency too, but motion/inertia (or lack thereof) are also a cause. For that reason, some people can't read in a moving car or play any kind of FPS, whatever its specs. We're not all the same concerning motion sickness.
So performance improvements will reduce the number of people that will feel sick while using VR, but some people will just never be able to use it.
Resolution, tracking and framerate have all been proven to be linked with the threshold people have with motion sickness. Its true badly designed movement in a game will likely make some uncomfortable or sick no matter what, but these other factors are absolutely capable of raising the threshold at which people feel these things. Assuming a well designed movement system, increasing these other factors will make it so *far* more people aren't as affected by this.
It is a problem, but not one that cant be overcome. And overcoming it will take a joint effort by both the software and hardware producers.
The resolution thing is an issue and I honestly wouldn't expect above 1080p either on consoles(rendered, the display itself may be higher to reduce screen door effect), but the reduced fidelity comes with an almost indescribable increase in raw immersiveness. Its a tradeoff I think many people are going to be perfectly happy to make.
Mihos
Gold Member
I cant wait for this to take off. Just using the gear VR with my note 4 and I have already plowed through all the content twice over.
The only game that made me woozy was the first person dungeon crawler that got added last week, but even that is so cool. Surival horror games will be out of this world.
I want more virtual experience stuff also. Like stream a feed from sports games and live play/concert performances. It is like being there. I would subscribe to a Netflix on Broadway type thing if it existed.
The only game that made me woozy was the first person dungeon crawler that got added last week, but even that is so cool. Surival horror games will be out of this world.
I want more virtual experience stuff also. Like stream a feed from sports games and live play/concert performances. It is like being there. I would subscribe to a Netflix on Broadway type thing if it existed.
Galacticus
Member
I can agree to that.
I will say that I badly suffer from motion sickness if I am a passenger in a car (especially if my wife is driving, zing!) but I do not experience the same feelings in VR.
I will say that I badly suffer from motion sickness if I am a passenger in a car (especially if my wife is driving, zing!) but I do not experience the same feelings in VR.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I really wish the comparison to 3D films would stop; the difference between the 2 is as big as watching a film at home and seeing a play with the ability to walk around on stage amongst the actors.
I actually like 3D films (When done well) but the immersion you feel being in VR shits all over any small moment you might be immersed while watching a 3D film.
Yes, both 3D and VR are different from our normal viewing habits and require extra tech but thats where the similarity stops.
I actually like 3D films (When done well) but the immersion you feel being in VR shits all over any small moment you might be immersed while watching a 3D film.
Yes, both 3D and VR are different from our normal viewing habits and require extra tech but thats where the similarity stops.
2d platformers, which were the SNES and Genesis' bread and butter, went quickly out of fashion once 3d gaming machines came out.
MeachTheMonster
Banned
"The market" is still buying kinect and similar products like it. Compared to other peripherals its still very successful. And there were 3 games this Christmas who's primary use was kinect. You are overblowing its so-called "failure" here.
Its not relegated to those experiences due to hardware. It's limited by software and VR will have that same challenge, even more so.
As you said kinect has some real world applications, yet its still a failure in your eyes. But somehow due to real world applications VR will change the world.
Honestly when kinect first came out, someone could have wrote this entire post about it allmost verbatim. But we still see where it ended up.
Kinect was astonishing for the vast majority of people who tried it the first time.
a secret-boss
Banned
That's reserve for Nintendo products
InaudibleWhispa
Member
It's a short term limitation (and only applies to some people). There's a fantastic DK2 game called Windrunners that made me feel sick when I first got my DK2 as it requires running and swinging from trees like Spider-Man. A month later, and I can happily play it for 30-40 minutes without an issue. You do get your VR legs so to speak, it's just better to introduce people to VR with something not so frantic. I've also played through quite a bit of Half-Life 2 without issue.
And of course hardware and software performance will vastly improve over the developer kits we're using now, so that'll also allow people to acclimatize much quicker. Besides, there are a million mind blowing ideas you could do in VR that don't require fast first person running.
SerTapTap
Member
I can't really see MS releasing Kinect, Fortaleza AND a VR headset in the same ecosystem. Kinect already failed pretty hard, and it seems questionable as to whether a 30 FPS camera is viable for any sort of VR assistance (PS camera has 240hz low res mode for tracking for this reason). It seems one of Fortaleza or VR will happen eventually, I really can't see them spreading themselves so thin though after their last peripheral managed to crash and burn after being such a strong success the first time.
Galacticus
Member
I'll repeat it again since it keeps coming up.
Team Fortress 2 is amazing in VR. The technology being reserved for slow paced walking simulators is an absolute myth and misunderstanding by people who haven't tried it.
Team Fortress 2 is amazing in VR. The technology being reserved for slow paced walking simulators is an absolute myth and misunderstanding by people who haven't tried it.
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