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S.C. teacher on administrative leave after KKK-themed homework assignment
- Thread starter KSweeley
- Start date
prag16
Banned
This particular situation is definitely too far, especially for 10 year olds. But I don't think history should be censored in the way you seem to be advocating. It's important to talk about the motivations of... yes... both sides. This does mean you're saying the clearly wrong/misguided side is right.. E.g. the U.S. Civil War. Would you prefer students of all ages are simply taught "yeah the south was a bunch of goddamn racists" and leave it at that?
Violence Jack
Member
I was going to say that teaching small kids about the KKK, their history, and what they believe in is a good thing so that they can stand against their racist platforms and help drive out their kind in the future. But this? How the fuck does a homework assignment like this even get approved? Asking any kid to try and understand or justify the KKK's is really fucked up.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
It shouldnt even be about the KKK at that age. It should be framed around Civil Rights and slavery.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Shadow Puppetry
Member
LegendofLex
Member
On its face, I don't know if there's really anything wrong with teaching kids about the things horrible groups believe and expecting them to understand why horrible people believe it. I definitely learned about this shit in school, and it's what taught me to recognize and reject racist groups.
And the framing of the question - put yourself in the shoes of these people whose beliefs you don't hold, and then explain what they believe - is a common strategy teachers use to check whether students are able to understand different perspectives, rather than just parrot outside value judgments on those perspectives. That's a valuable tool when you want religious kids to understand atheists (for example), or Christians to understand Muslims, or even white kids to understand the oppression of minorities, etc. It's the difference between someone being able to say what their parents told them about Islam vs. using firsthand Islamic sources to explain what Islam believes.
I get why someone would want to use that tactic to teach people about racism, too, even though I agree that it's obviously not appropriate framing for 10-year-olds. It's more effective at the high school or college level when you can expect kids to think more critically.
It's the fact that that question is paired with the one immediately following it that raises a ton of red flags about the teacher's intent - in addition to their methods. First, you ask kids to think from the KKK's perspective, then you ask them whether black people had it okay after emancipation? What kind of critical thinking are you trying to instill in them?
edit: Here's more or less the progression I could imagine a teacher having in mind when framing an assignment like this-
(5th grade standard for Reading Comprehension for Informational Texts)
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RI.5.6
Analyze multiple accounts of the same event or topic, noting important similarities and differences in the point of view they represent.
(6th grade standard for History/Social Studies)
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RH.6-8.2
Determine the central ideas or information of a primary or secondary source; provide an accurate summary of the source distinct from prior knowledge or opinions.
Obviously this teacher either didn't think this one through or really had some kind of malicious intent.
And the framing of the question - put yourself in the shoes of these people whose beliefs you don't hold, and then explain what they believe - is a common strategy teachers use to check whether students are able to understand different perspectives, rather than just parrot outside value judgments on those perspectives. That's a valuable tool when you want religious kids to understand atheists (for example), or Christians to understand Muslims, or even white kids to understand the oppression of minorities, etc. It's the difference between someone being able to say what their parents told them about Islam vs. using firsthand Islamic sources to explain what Islam believes.
I get why someone would want to use that tactic to teach people about racism, too, even though I agree that it's obviously not appropriate framing for 10-year-olds. It's more effective at the high school or college level when you can expect kids to think more critically.
It's the fact that that question is paired with the one immediately following it that raises a ton of red flags about the teacher's intent - in addition to their methods. First, you ask kids to think from the KKK's perspective, then you ask them whether black people had it okay after emancipation? What kind of critical thinking are you trying to instill in them?
edit: Here's more or less the progression I could imagine a teacher having in mind when framing an assignment like this-
(5th grade standard for Reading Comprehension for Informational Texts)
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RI.5.6
Analyze multiple accounts of the same event or topic, noting important similarities and differences in the point of view they represent.
(6th grade standard for History/Social Studies)
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RH.6-8.2
Determine the central ideas or information of a primary or secondary source; provide an accurate summary of the source distinct from prior knowledge or opinions.
Obviously this teacher either didn't think this one through or really had some kind of malicious intent.
He didn't say history should be censored. He said you shouldn't ask students to justify genocide (in the Nazi example). You can teach about motivations, ideaologies, and world views without justifying abhorrent actions.
What are they going to do when they get to the Rape of Nanking, and then get tasked with justifying why it was okay for the Japanese to rape and massacre thousands of women? Then get to Emmett Till and justify why it was okay to murder and mutilate him?
At that point, you are giving equal time sympathizing with evil, and instilling a "both sides are right" framework, or that finding a justification, any justification is good enough to equal out the differences of conflict.
You can talk about the motivations of the KKK without being asked to justify them! That wording is all fucked up. "Hey, let's try emphasizing with these racists. Maybe they aren't so wrong?"
And the kid's answer for the last question makes me raise an eyebrow too. Is the teacher telling the kids that freed slaves got lots of handouts?
Edit: Neece said it better.
And the kid's answer for the last question makes me raise an eyebrow too. Is the teacher telling the kids that freed slaves got lots of handouts?
Edit: Neece said it better.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Correct answer is so easy though.
Because Im a stupid racist asshole.
Because Im a stupid racist asshole.
Fenderputty
Banned
I started at the top and was like, "seems reasonable, seems reasonable .... NOT REASONABLE NOT REASONABLE"
EDIT:
I don't remember how the topic of being a freedman was handled when I was young. It seems like one of those questions that's white washed for youth and then as you get older you're provided more context for how a freed slave would feel. Kinda like Christopher Columbus or the first Pilgrims.
EDIT:
I don't remember how the topic of being a freedman was handled when I was young. It seems like one of those questions that's white washed for youth and then as you get older you're provided more context for how a freed slave would feel. Kinda like Christopher Columbus or the first Pilgrims.
Talking about motivations is one thing, empathisizing with how these terror groups decide on their victims is another. As I said in the response you quoted, the way the question was asked was inappropriate.
Yekshemesh
Member
Just a difference of opinion, hearing both sides, the middle is a great place to be.
HawksWinStanley
Member
If the worksheet wasn't enough to fire her then the comic sans should've been the nail in the coffin.
You can talk about motivations without having children justify the lynching of black people as a thought expertment
Messofanego
Banned
that gif was talking about white nationalists
RPGCrazied
Member
DeVos must be proud! And this is what happens when you elect someone like Trump into office.
Elections have consequences.
Elections have consequences.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Wow, that teacher must be a real bastard. The kid was literally crying...
LegendofLex
Member
I'm pretty sure we covered it in 5th grade when I was a kid. I remember learning about how indentured servitude was pretty close to slavery 2.0.
It's kind of weird that the teacher is framing the question as "is life better for you as a freedman?" for sure, though, given the trend today for racists to argue that black people never really had it all that bad and/or that slavery being over means they have no unique problems. Maybe the teacher's intent was to undercut that idea, but pairing these two questions together in an exercise explicitly about the KKK feels really suspect to me.
The ability to explain multiple historical viewpoints without inserting your own viewpoint is a Common Core standard.
Of course, there are probably ways to check for this without saying "put yourself in their shoes" (so of course people are right to be super pissed!) but I know that's a strategy that gets deployed a lot to signal to kids that they're being asked to explain other people's perspectives.
Glass Shark
Banned
Is there anything that states or suggests the teachers reasoning for including this question? Obviously it was a very bad idea, but I feel like this could be a situation like other bad homework stuff that has come up recently in that its a massively misguided attempt at being woke.
RandomHopeInc
Member
This is more lazy copy paste teaching, I don't believe it too be malicious, judging from the questions and talking points.
I think the point was teaching why they were bad, although the laziness is irresponsible when dealing with such a heavy subject.
I think the point was teaching why they were bad, although the laziness is irresponsible when dealing with such a heavy subject.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Lol how come only an "administrative leave"? Feels like the police.
Ha ha it was the first thing I noticed.
justjustin
Member
I can't quite tell, so maybe you agree: Critical thinking using the KKK's perspective is problematic in itself. The "answer" to that homework question can literally only be hateful lies. Hmmmm, do they have a point?! How to they feel??? The answer is pure delusional hate with the only solution being mass murder of minorities. It's a simple idea with no gray area that has failed again and again, and does not require any consideration in modern society; only complete rejection.
Critical thinking has a goal-- to open the minds of people who are closed-off. It's to challenge your ideas and, hopefully, adopt perspectives to make people's lives better or think in new ways about the world.
Critically thinking about what causes such racist ideas, good. But pretending to think from that perspective? A complete waste and, obviously, hurtful to people.
Maybe the teacher didn't realize, but that's so hard for me to believe. It would take 5 seconds to answer that question yourself before giving it to students-- children, in this case.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Justify why you would hate black people is not a critical thinking assignment
Not in high school, not in college, not anywhere.
Not in high school, not in college, not anywhere.
Centrists must relish at this thought exercise.that gif was talking about white nationalists
God I hate that guy.
HellforLeather
Member
The "You are a member of the KKK" section is the only part that I have an issue with....its pretty stupid. Why would you ask a child to justify the KKK?
I know, right? There have never been news stories about teachers handing out racist or at least suspect homework, lessons, or lectures before Trump was elected.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I'm an American, and I'm perfectly fine with saying about half of Americans are pieces of shit.
Iva Demilcol
Member
"Justify the actions and views of the KKK"
It's just a difference of opinion
A+
It's just a difference of opinion
A+
This is what keeps getting swept under the rug when discussing groups like the KKK and Nazis as a "political belief". These people committed horrible acts/want to continue committing horrible acts against society as a group. You'd never see a teacher come up with an assignment where a question like...
"You are there...you are a serial killer. Why do you think your crimes against your victims and familes are justified?"
..and try to justify it with some "both sides" nonsense.
demosthenes
Member
Centrists must relish at this thought exercise.that gif was talking about white nationalists
He can't be critical of people because this is his livelihood (he had to own everything behind him).
Never? I'm gonna guess that you're wrong.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
I don't really know how to interpret this...
I kinda see it as a spring board for having a conversation about the topic but also, they are very young and these concepts might not be fully graspable... so probably not the best idea...
I kinda see it as a spring board for having a conversation about the topic but also, they are very young and these concepts might not be fully graspable... so probably not the best idea...
Yekshemesh
Member
You are there... You voted for Trump. Explain in detail how you're not a tremendous shitbag.
I haven't seen a single post defending what the teacher did. Some have pointed out that they believe his intentions perhaps weren't motivated by racism but instead by ignorance and ineptitude. But nobody is saying what he did was remotely OK.
Andodalf
Banned
Probably too young for this type of Question, but putting yourself into others shoes for a question like that is a very common practice in History. It's not saying that they are Justified, It's asking the students to provide the reasons that the KKK used to justify it to themselves. I had a similar question on a test in my Upper-Level History class on the Civil Rights movement in Uni this past week. Knowing how they convinced themselves they were right is massively important in how to avoid such issues in the present.
Yup. This is wrong because it's framed poorly and 5th graders are probably too young for the material. The core concept of attempting to get students to think about the motivations and understandings of historical actors is pretty central to historical thought....
I think people in this thread are fundamentally misunderstanding the question. It isn't justify their actions, it's asking how they justified, and I think this is poor diction, their actions. That's not a value judgement, people tend to feel their actions are justified regardless of if we think they are.
Cymbal Head
Banned
Teaching about the KKK and its purpose, and how it affected the lives of its victims, seem like totally fair game and are important. But "imagine you're a KKK member" is probably not the most appropriate way to handle it with 5th graders.
Fenderputty
Banned
Ohh the whole thing is rediculous both sides racist bullahit due to the justification question. It's just the last question made me wonder about my childhood, and I couldn't remember how the topic was covered for me. I don't remember specifics, just that more and more context was provided as I grew older. The concept of systemic racism wasn't ever brought up until college, and it came in a Human Resources class at that.
"People who know me know there's not a racist bone in my body!"