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[Toadthemushroom]

There is another big reason, reliability. I heard that LED Backlit LCD screens have a lifetime of 50,000-100,000 hours. Nintendo have always prided themselves on reliability (like apple), so to me Nintendo's future screen is a no brainier.

As far as I know OLED is not even close to LED backlit LCD screen reliability, feel free to prove me wrong.

Correct. The first problem is that OLED displays suffer from burn-in. Both my Moto X 2013 and Nokia Lumia 820 developed it within weeks of purchase, and I've seen some Vita-1000 owners get the web browser UI burned-into their displays.

But also they degrade pretty fast, which is why PenTile became a thing. Blue subpixels degrade faster than the other two, and a PenTile subpixel matrix uses less of them to compensate.

But PenTile only delivers 2/3 of the effective resolution, so if a screen uses an RGB subpixel matrix (equal amounts of red, blue and green subpixels) then the blue subpixels degrade faster, leading to degradation of colour accuracy and brightness over less time.

Modern OLED displays still have these issues:

On the other hand, I'm not sure if I want to live with OLED right now. The screen dimming is a bore. For our battery testing, I ran a little app to move the mouse once a minute and hence prevent the dimming, but this is obviously going to shorten the life of the screen. I'm sure I could remove Samsung's dimming app, but do I want to? Is that going to slash the screen's useful life or create serious burn-in? My assumption is it will, otherwise Samsung wouldn't have included this feature in the first place.

That concerns me. As beautiful as this screen is, I'm not sure I want a system I have to care for in this way. The TabPro S is constantly reminding me that it's deteriorating before my very eyes. One day, perhaps in the not too distant future, that beautiful screen is going to be ruined.

As for the Vita-2000's IPS LCD, it's a nice display, though there is some room for improvement: the backlighting is uneven along the bottom edge on my unit, which is noticeable when showing white backgrounds, and the max brightness is pretty low, but still higher than the 1000's OLED.

My New 3DS XL goes brighter than it, and the max brightness of that unit is technically halved as the brightness has to double in 3D mode to compensate for the dimming.

I'd still take it any day over the 1000's display, though, and it was more than decent enough for a device that launched in late 2013.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

*accidental double post*

 

[Schnozberry]

Not really agreeing on your last point. The primary purpose of designing hardware should be growing YOUR audience. Not so much the gaming audience in general. Microsoft and Sony hardly care about growing the general audience, they care about growing their own audience.

We're talking about the same thing. Designing hardware around growing the general audience for gaming inherently means you want to attract that audience to your platform. The rising tide raising all boats is more of happy accident in this example.

I think everyone in the industry cares about growing the audience for games. Sony and Microsoft aren't blind to what has happened in the mobile space, and they wouldn't focus so hard on being home entertainment service platforms if their goal wasn't to reach outside of the core gaming audience. Nintendo has been hardest hit by the latest trend because their audience was in the crosshairs of the first exodus to mobile gaming, but Sony and MS have to know that the trend will continue as people age out of core gaming and new players don't replace them.

 

[ozfunghi]

We're talking about the same thing. Designing hardware around growing the general audience for gaming inherently means you want to attract that audience to your platform. The rising tide raising all boats is more of happy accident in this example.

I think everyone in the industry cares about growing the audience for games. Sony and Microsoft aren't blind to what has happened in the mobile space, and they wouldn't focus so hard on being home entertainment service platforms if their goal wasn't to reach outside of the core gaming audience. Nintendo has been hardest hit by the latest trend because their audience was in the crosshairs of the first exodus to mobile gaming, but Sony and MS have to know that the trend will continue as people age out of gaming and new players don't replace them.

I never said growing your own audience couldn't be done by appealing to new gamers though, as long as you're growing your audience it doesn't matter where they come from.

I mean, Nintendo got a lot of credit for their blue ocean strategy, bringing in lots of new gamers with Wii and DS, but in the end, Xbox 360 and Sony PSP didn't do much worse.

 

[Pokemaniac]

No LCD display is remotely as good for gaming as even an average OLED.

OLED's image retention/burn-in issues pretty much disqualify it from being suitable for a game system, though.

 

[Schnozberry]

I never said growing your own audience couldn't be done by appealing to new gamers though, as long as you're growing your audience it doesn't matter where they come from.

I mean, Nintendo got a lot of credit for their blue ocean strategy, bringing in lots of new gamers with Wii and DS, but in the end, Xbox 360 and Sony PSP didn't do much worse.

Times change, though, and it certainly does matter where the audience comes from. It can't just be people who currently own dedicated consoles. Even if they cannibalized the entire Wii U/3DS/XBONE/PS4 current LTD sales over the life of the NX, it would still fall well short of the DS numbers for it's 9 year lifespan.

The Wii and DS were phenomenons and they very much did bring a greater awareness in pop culture to video games in general during their best years. Other consoles also benefited from this as time went on as people got curious enough to seek out new experiences, but the hammer dropped especially hard on Nintendo when the ubiquity and utility of smart devices came into effect, along with the failure of the 3DS and Wii U to capture people's imaginations in the same way.

The NX doesn't have to sell 150+ million units to be considered a success, but it should certainly aspire to. That really doesn't happen by merely tossing in powerful chips. It has to offer an experience that is accessible and interesting enough to pry people away from their other consoles, tablets and phones. It's a daunting task.

 

[tr1p1ex]

We're talking about the same thing. Designing hardware around growing the general audience for gaming inherently means you want to attract that audience to your platform. The rising tide raising all boats is more of happy accident in this example.

I think everyone in the industry cares about growing the audience for games. Sony and Microsoft aren't blind to what has happened in the mobile space, and they wouldn't focus so hard on being home entertainment service platforms if their goal wasn't to reach outside of the core gaming audience. Nintendo has been hardest hit by the latest trend because their audience was in the crosshairs of the first exodus to mobile gaming, but Sony and MS have to know that the trend will continue as people age out of core gaming and new players don't replace them.

Yep no one is trying to find a smaller audience.

 

[FoxSpirit]

OLED's image retention/burn-in issues pretty much disqualify it from being suitable for a game system, though.

My Samsung S4 has seen super heavy use and the only burn in seen in an artificial test is the damn bar at top. In return, the LCDs on the phones we use as card scanners have suffered heavily from constantly showing the scanning icons. I didn't even know this could happen to LCD. That said, my Galaxy S2 fared much worse so you can heavily see the evolution of the tech.

The best solution is of course the LG CF-WOLED, color filtered white OLED. Solves all the image retention issues. No blue degradation. Color quality and depth only limited by the filter. Simply great.

 

[tr1p1ex]

With these recent revelations, I’m beginning to think that NX will be neither a true portable nor home console, but a semi-stationary device in the vein of laptop PCs.

Iwata talked about IOS and how it runs on different form factors. And that's what they are trying to do with the NX.

So NX is virtual platform. It's a Nintendo OS. IT's not hardware.

I don't see any evidence that there will only be 1 form factor. There could be. But the evidence I see says more than 1 form factor. As you said, Iwata has said we could see more form factors. He cites NX as analogous to iOS. And clearly the west likes its consoles while the east likes its handhelds.

Nintendo has also said Zelda Wii U will also be released for the NX. I don't see a Nintendo handheld running Zelda Wii U next March based on the size and pricepoint and battery life that Nintendo traditionally has strived for in a handheld.

But I do think they will be marketing 1 platform next gen instead of 2 systems. And most games will run on any form factor, but probably not all. This doesn't necessarily mean 1 sku for every form factor. IT could mean 2 skus - 1 for handheld and 1 for console. But in both cases it means more software per form factor.

Quite possible they could make more than stationary form factor too. They could make a console with less power like their handheld. And they could make a more powerful console that could give better visuals and have a better chance of being targeted by western 3rd parties.

But we can agree that we know nothing. Nintendo has said little. And we'll find out later in the year what it's really all about.

 

[ozfunghi]

Times change, though, and it certainly does matter where the audience comes from. It can't just be people who currently own dedicated consoles. Even if they cannibalized the entire Wii U/3DS/XBONE/PS4 current LTD sales over the life of the NX, it would still fall well short of the DS numbers for it's 9 year lifespan.

The Wii and DS were phenomenons and they very much did bring a greater awareness in pop culture to video games in general during their best years. Other consoles also benefited from this as time went on as people got curious enough to seek out new experiences, but the hammer dropped especially hard on Nintendo when the ubiquity and utility of smart devices came into effect, along with the failure of the 3DS and Wii U to capture people's imaginations in the same way.

The NX doesn't have to sell 150+ million units to be considered a success, but it should certainly aspire to. That really doesn't happen by merely tossing in powerful chips. It has to offer an experience that is accessible and interesting enough to pry people away from their other consoles, tablets and phones. It's a daunting task.

I never said it would be a case of tossing in some powerful chips. I only said the(ir) primary concern shouldn't be to bring in new gamers. If they can't sell enough consoles to existing gamers, then they would need to bring in new ones. If they can't sell enough to new gamers, they need to appeal to existing gamers. In the end, you have to think about your position in the market place and offer it a proposition, a concept. After all, you need to strike a balance. Wii didn't strike that balance, and WiiU was on the other end of that same spectrum as a result.

 

[Kobun Heat]

-Whenever anyone talks about NX, they seem to be speaking of a single system. They’ve even used the word “system”, which in the context of videogame speak, has always referred to a single console.

Hell, I'll do you one better: in Japanese, the word Kimishima keeps using is "ki," meaning "machine." Singular. One machine.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Iwata talked about IOS and how it runs on different form factors. And that's what they are trying to do with the NX.

So NX is virtual platform. It's a Nintendo OS. IT's not hardware.

I don't see any evidence that there will only be 1 form factor. There could be. But the evidence I see says more than 1 form factor. As you said, Iwata has said we could see more form factors. He cites NX as analogous to iOS. And clearly the west likes its consoles while the east likes its handhelds.

Nintendo has also said Zelda Wii U will also be released for the NX. I don't see a Nintendo handheld running Zelda Wii U next March based on the size and pricepoint and battery life that Nintendo traditionally has strived for in a handheld.

But I do think they will be marketing 1 platform next gen instead of 2 systems. And most games will run on any form factor, but probably not all. This doesn't necessarily mean 1 sku for every form factor. IT could mean 2 skus - 1 for handheld and 1 for console. But in both cases it means more software per form factor.

Quite possible they could make more than stationary form factor too. They could make a console with less power like their handheld. And they could make a more powerful console that could give better visuals and have a better chance of being targeted by western 3rd parties.

But we can agree that we know nothing. Nintendo has said little. And we'll find out later in the year what it's really all about.

But that's exactly Fourth Storm's point- Iwata never compared the NX to iOS. He compared Nintendo's new and future hardware ecosystem to iOS and Android but that was years before codename NX was announced.

We've all been taking for granted that NX WAS this new ecosystem, but really I'm not sure about this anymore. NX could very well be the first device to come out in that new ecosystem. It's really not a huge distinction but it's worth noting, especially when we have this article explicitly using the phrase "NX handheld" when there's really no reason to believe there will be an NX handheld and an NX console, the way Nintendo's been talking about it.

Instead it'll likely be "Here's the NX!" Then a year or two later, "Here's the NY!" or whatever. That was Fourth Storm's point (from what I gathered anyway).

 

[maxcriden]

Iwata talked about IOS and how it runs on different form factors. And that's what they are trying to do with the NX.

So NX is virtual platform. It's a Nintendo OS. IT's not hardware.

I don't see any evidence that there will only be 1 form factor. There could be. But the evidence I see says more than 1 form factor. As you said, Iwata has said we could see more form factors. He cites NX as analogous to iOS. And clearly the west likes its consoles while the east likes its handhelds.

Nintendo has also said Zelda Wii U will also be released for the NX. I don't see a Nintendo handheld running Zelda Wii U next March based on the size and pricepoint and battery life that Nintendo traditionally has strived for in a handheld.

But I do think they will be marketing 1 platform next gen instead of 2 systems. And most games will run on any form factor, but probably not all. This doesn't necessarily mean 1 sku for every form factor. IT could mean 2 skus - 1 for handheld and 1 for console. But in both cases it means more software per form factor.

Quite possible they could make more than stationary form factor too. They could make a console with less power like their handheld. And they could make a more powerful console that could give better visuals and have a better chance of being targeted by western 3rd parties.

But we can agree that we know nothing. Nintendo has said little. And we'll find out later in the year what it's really all about.

I like your ideas a lot but I'm not sure I entirely follow. If Zelda U wouldn't run on the next HH, then how will NX have a HH coming soon-ish? Or are you saying that HH won't be able to play all NX console games, but some of them? If so, unsure how it could play some NX console games but not be able to play a Wii U game. But I could be entirely misunderstanding.

 

[KingJ2002]

But that's exactly Fourth Storm's point- Iwata never compared the NX to iOS. He compared Nintendo's new and future hardware ecosystem to iOS and Android but that was years before codename NX was announced.

We've all been taking for granted that NX WAS this new ecosystem, but really I'm not sure about this anymore. NX could very well be the first device to come out in that new ecosystem. It's really not a huge distinction but it's worth noting, especially when we have this article explicitly using the phrase "NX handheld" when there's really no reason to believe there will be an NX handheld and an NX console, the way Nintendo's been talking about it.

Instead it'll likely be "Here's the NX!" Then a year or two later, "Here's the NY!" or whatever. That was Fourth Storm's point (from what I gathered anyway).

It could also be that Iwata and Kimishima use the "NX" in different manners to keep the consumer out of the loop as to what it is. If they use it to describe an ecosystem one day and then turn around and talk about an NX system the next... we don't know what they're talking about exactly... but on the other hand.. they know exactly what they're referring to

 

[jdstorm]

I like your ideas a lot but I'm not sure I entirely follow. If Zelda U wouldn't run on the next HH, then how will NX have a HH coming soon-ish? Or are you saying that HH won't be able to play all NX console games, but some of them? If so, unsure how it could play some NX console games but not be able to play a Wii U game. But I could be entirely misunderstanding.

Zelda U will definitely run on the next Nintendo Hand Held. Most likely the power of the NX handheld and NX console will scale directly to target resolution. Ie the handheld will have a 480p or 540p screen (possibly 720p though that's very unlikely) and the home console will be Xtimes as powerful to have identical performance at 1080p

Anyone who assumes third parties will target the extra power of the console are missing the point. Most common third party engines (unreal, epic, frostbite, Unity ect) are built to be scale able. it would be beyond foolish if the next Nintendo handheld couldn't run these modern engines at the handhelds resolution. Nintendo likely want third parties to target the handheld and any "extra" power the console may have would merely be used to output at a higher resolution.

Question. If Nintendo is choosing to go with an Nvidia would that mean that the NX might have a G-sync ( or is it V-sync) display?

 

[Skittzo0413]

It could also be that Iwata and Kimishima use the "NX" in different manners to keep the consumer out of the loop as to what it is. If they use it to describe an ecosystem one day and then turn around and talk about an NX system the next... we don't know what they're talking about exactly... but on the other hand.. they know exactly what they're referring to

I don't believe Iwata ever referred to NX as an ecosystem though. The first mention of "NX" was about a year ago and all the shared ecosystem stuff was long before that.

 

[Schnozberry]

I never said it would be a case of tossing in some powerful chips. I only said the(ir) primary concern shouldn't be to bring in new gamers. If they can't sell enough consoles to existing gamers, then they would need to bring in new ones. If they can't sell enough to new gamers, they need to appeal to existing gamers. In the end, you have to think about your position in the market place and offer it a proposition, a concept. After all, you need to strike a balance. Wii didn't strike that balance, and WiiU was on the other end of that same spectrum as a result.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the current market is hungry for new Nintendo hardware that plays it conservatively and tries to retain their existing audience and make a modest effort to get the attention of third parties with improved hardware. Personally, I think Nintendo needs to go outside the box and boldly make an effort to stake a claim in where they think the future of games is going.

 

[ozfunghi]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the current market is hungry for new Nintendo hardware that plays it conservatively and tries to retain their existing audience and make a modest effort to get the attention of third parties with improved hardware. Personally, I think Nintendo needs to go outside the box and boldly make an effort to stake a claim in where they think the future of games is going.

I think you're just not understanding what i'm trying to say. I'm only saying the primary concern shouldn't be to bring in "new" (as in expanding the gaming market) audiences. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be "a" concern. Or at the very least, maybe it could be a primary concern, when the rest of the market is saturated already. But still, it depends. Primary goal has to be, appealing to as large an audience as possible. Whether or not that means expanding the market.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Guys, whatever NX is, Nintendo's not going to say it before they reveal it. They're intentionally being coy, and it's pointless to take any comments at face value.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I'm not really hyped for the NX anymore. When Nintendo said it wouldn't be at E3 it deflated me and I'm happy for that lol. Worrying about the NX so much makes things stressful. I'll worry about the NX by the end of June again.

 

[tr1p1ex]

I like your ideas a lot but I'm not sure I entirely follow. If Zelda U wouldn't run on the next HH, then how will NX have a HH coming soon-ish? Or are you saying that HH won't be able to play all NX console games, but some of them? If so, unsure how it could play some NX console games but not be able to play a Wii U game. But I could be entirely misunderstanding.

I'm saying Nintendo is not going to make just a handheld because they can't make one that plays Zelda Wii U. And they said Zelda Wii U will be on NX.

And when I say they can't make one I mean for the pricepoint and reasonable design Nintendo traditionally aims for.

 

[MuchoMalo]

snip

This is a good post, but reading what Emily was saying again, it seems like she was saying definitively that it doesn't compete with PS4 on power at all. I think 1 TFLOP is the absolute max we can expect from NX console. So, 512 CUDA cores at 800-1000MHz.

 

[bomblord1]

This is a good post, but reading what Emily was saying again, it seems like she was saying definitively that it doesn't compete with PS4 on power at all. I think 1 TFLOP is the absolute max we can expect from NX console. So, 512 CUDA cores at 800-1000MHz.

How do you read that? Not blowing it away could be literally anywhere from severely underpowered to slightly above.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

OLED's image retention/burn-in issues pretty much disqualify it from being suitable for a game system, though.

Thank you!

The OLED love fest that happened when the Vita launched made absolutely no sense. It's terrible for anything you're going to keep around for a while due to image retention, dimming and issues with uniformity across the display.

It's fine for a phone, something you're going to replace every year or two, not a handheld gaming device that's going to be constantly displaying HUD elements.

 

[tr1p1ex]

But that's exactly Fourth Storm's point- Iwata never compared the NX to iOS. He compared Nintendo's new and future hardware ecosystem to iOS and Android but that was years before codename NX was announced.

We've all been taking for granted that NX WAS this new ecosystem, but really I'm not sure about this anymore. NX could very well be the first device to come out in that new ecosystem. It's really not a huge distinction but it's worth noting, especially when we have this article explicitly using the phrase "NX handheld" when there's really no reason to believe there will be an NX handheld and an NX console, the way Nintendo's been talking about it.

Instead it'll likely be "Here's the NX!" Then a year or two later, "Here's the NY!" or whatever. That was Fourth Storm's point (from what I gathered anyway).

He was just saying he thinks that Nintendo is going to make just 1 piece of hardware.

I'm not saying that can't/won't happen, but everything NIntendo said (and the type of portable that would be needed to run Zelda Wii U on the NX) doesn't add up to that.

Iwata mentioned iOS only 10 months before revealing the codename of Nintendo's next platform.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Thank you!

The OLED love fest that happened when the Vita launched made absolutely no sense. It's terrible for anything you're going to keep around for a while due to image retention, dimming and issues with uniformity across the display.

Shhhhhh. Don't bring facts into this. Vita is god gift to game designers, and not a clusterfuck piece of hardware that doesn't know what it wants to be.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Here's what Iwata said in May 2014:

"Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future."



*****************

This all points to an ARM architecture across the board. I'd almost bet money on it after reading this again for the 3rd time.

It probably means more than 1 form factor given that NX will run Zelda Wii U.

And another argument for more than 1 form factor says: Some customers will have no interest in a handheld and just want a console. And those customers would buy just a console even if that console was only as powerful as the handheld. They would do this because that console would be cheaper than the handheld because the console wouldn't have to have a screen nor battery. Think along the lines of the cost of an Apple TV vs the cost of an iPad or iPhone. And Nintendo would make this happen because they want to get hardware into as many hands as possible so they can sell as much software as possible. And so no matter what, we're going to get 2 form factors.


Also note the phrase "adequately absorb the Wii U architecture." This doesn't necessarily mean it has to be as powerful or more powerful.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

Here's what Iwata said in May 2014:

"Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future."

I think this quote is essential to understand what the direction of NX was from the beginning. However, my concern with this quote is we are now two years past it, and NX will be launching almost 3 years after it. If Nintendo were to get some kind of very compelling chip offer in the last year or some exciting tech prospect popped up since May 2014, I could see the plans changing. But Kimishima did say that he'd be continuing Iwata's plan, so maybe that's not a possibility.

 

[AmyS]

If you consider DS and N64 equivalent, then sure. It's probably a bit weaker in some cases, but it has better shaders allowing for prettier games.
If NX follows the same generational leap it would be around 360 (since Wii wasn't a generational leap tech wise)

Nintendo DS (2004) slightly below PS1-level in 3D performance, definitely not equivalent to N64.

3DS (2011) well beyond Nintendo 64 (3DS runs Zelda OoT 3D with better graphics, textures and at a higher framerate: ~20-25fps on N64 vs 30fps on 3DS.
While 3DS doesn't have Gamecube's polygon count, 3DS has more advanced fixed function shaders.

New 3DS (2014) twice as many CPU cores, clocked much higher, plus more VRAM. The GPU is the same though, and 99.9% of the games don't take advantage of the faster CPU or extra VRAM. Only a handful do.

 

[Schnozberry]

I'm saying Nintendo is not going to make just a handheld because they can't make one that plays Zelda Wii U. And they said Zelda Wii U will be on NX.

And when I say they can't make one I mean for the pricepoint and reasonable design Nintendo traditionally aims for.

Getting Wii U performance from a handheld is not only attainable, it wouldn't even be difficult. It wouldn't have to be expensive either, unless they over engineer the crap out of it for some reason.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Nintendo DS (2004) slightly below PS1-level in 3D performance, definitely not equivalent to N64.

Sort of. The DS was able to run its games at a silky smooth locked frame rate of 60FPS or 30FPS on both screens. Remember, while the DS has a lower resolution, it also displays on 2 screens. Of course some of it is 2D HUD elements, but in 3D, it's just very refined. N64 and PS1 have heavy bottle necks. Games that push the DS to the limits in 3D might not be possible on the PS1 or even the N64. Of course the DS wouldn't be able to run games that pushed the PS1 or N64 to the limit either.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Getting Wii U performance from a handheld is not only attainable, it wouldn't even be difficult. It wouldn't have to be expensive either, unless they over engineer the crap out of it for some reason.

It's not a question of it being attainable. It's a question of it being attainable at the pricepoint they want to hit with the type of design they want and have traditionally gone for.

It's more than just slapping chips into something you can carry around and calling it good.

Anyway I think I've come up with an argument that says no matter what we're getting 2 form factors. It's a few posts above this one. The gist of it is.... a console with the same power as a handheld is going to be much cheaper to make so it's a no-brainer to also make a console.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Nintendo DS (2004) slightly below PS1-level in 3D performance, definitely not equivalent to N64.

3DS (2011) well beyond Nintendo 64 (3DS runs Zelda OoT 3D with better graphics, textures and at a higher framerate: ~20-25fps on N64 vs 30fps on 3DS.
While 3DS doesn't have Gamecube's polygon count, 3DS has more advanced fixed function shaders.

New 3DS (2014) twice as many CPU cores, clocked much higher, plus more VRAM. The GPU is the same though, and 99.9% of the games don't take advantage of the faster CPU or extra VRAM. Only a handful do.

The DS did run Super Mario 64.

 

[GhostTrick]

Nintendo's head of System Architecture since 2011, and head of Technology development for the past 5 months is a former Nvidia Engineering Director. Nintendo has made key talent acquisitions since the hardware design of 3DS and Wii U. I wouldn't necessarily expect more of the same. Also, whether or not people like it, Takeda was right. More people play games on "low end" hardware today via mobile devices than play consoles. Simply adding more hz and flops doesn't grow the gaming audience. Which, if we're honest, should be the primary purpose of designing new hardware.

It's not only about power. It's about being compatible with the tools. Nowadays, when you're making a console you want it to be compatible with the tools people use to make games.

 

[tr1p1ex]

I think this quote is essential to understand what the direction of NX was from the beginning. However, my concern with this quote is we are now two years past it, and NX will be launching almost 3 years after it. If Nintendo were to get some kind of very compelling chip offer in the last year or some exciting tech prospect popped up since May 2014, I could see the plans changing. But Kimishima did say that he'd be continuing Iwata's plan, so maybe that's not a possibility.

Concern about what?

Nintendo hasn't mentioned any change in direction. As you said, Kimishima even confirmed they are continuing the same direction as before.

All the evidence points to ARM across the board. And I think I have a 2nd good argument for 2 form factors no matter what and that is a console with the same power as a handheld is going to be much cheaper to make than a handheld because it doesn't need a screen nor a battery.

 

[Schnozberry]

It's not a question of it being attainable. It's a question of it being attainable at the pricepoint they want to hit with the type of design they want and have traditionally gone for.

It's more than just slapping chips into something you can carry around and calling it good.

Anyway I think I've come up with an argument that says no matter what we're getting 2 form factors. It's a few posts above this one. The gist of it is.... a console with the same power as a handheld is going to be much cheaper to make so it's a no-brainer to also make a console.

It wouldn't be expensive to get Wii U Power in a handheld. High end Mobile SOC's are already there and so is the Tegra X1. Mobile hardware has advanced rapidly and the Wii U was way behind the curve when t was released.

Nintendo wanted Tegra in the 3DS, but Nvidia was unable to deliver the performance and battery life that they promised. They can do that now on 16nm.

 

[Schnozberry]

It's not only about power. It's about being compatible with the tools. Nowadays, when you're making a console you want it to be compatible with the tools people use to make games.

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

 

[Cow Mengde]

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

Really? This is the first time I've heard of it. Could that be what killed 3rd party support early on?

 

[NeOak]

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

Care to elaborate? I thought it would be pretty stable since they could use the Wii's as a starting point.

 

[Jackano]

Really? This is the first time I've heard of it. Could that be what killed 3rd party support early on?

Care to elaborate? I thought it would be pretty stable since they could use the Wii's as a starting point.

Quickly find this article I read back in the day:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Shhhhhh. Don't bring facts into this. Vita is god gift to game designers, and not a clusterfuck piece of hardware that doesn't know what it wants to be.

But mah oversaturated colours and blue white point!

I wouldn't say no to a modern OLED panel on a new device like a phone or the Apple Watch, but the amount of misinformation about the tech versus equivalent LCD panels over the last few years is depressing.

Again, I point to DisplayMate's analysis of the iPad Pro's display. Best screen on a portable device, ever.

Nintendo DS (2004) slightly below PS1-level in 3D performance, definitely not equivalent to N64.

3DS (2011) well beyond Nintendo 64 (3DS runs Zelda OoT 3D with better graphics, textures and at a higher framerate: ~20-25fps on N64 vs 30fps on 3DS.
While 3DS doesn't have Gamecube's polygon count, 3DS has more advanced fixed function shaders.

New 3DS (2014) twice as many CPU cores, clocked much higher, plus more VRAM. The GPU is the same though, and 99.9% of the games don't take advantage of the faster CPU or extra VRAM. Only a handful do.

Yeah, DS has better polygon-crunching capabilities than N64, but it's missing a lot of features. DS could never run Perfect Dark, for example, especially with that game's lighting effects.

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

Does anyone have those quotes from Iwata(?) about how they were aiming to produce a much better "development environment" for developers? I'm guessing this relates to the SDK and not a game engine like PhyreEngine? Or maybe both? The new Nintendo developer site from last year seems to be a step in the right direction.

 

[Malakai]

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

From my understanding, from the developers that refuted parts of that hit piece, generally, SDK are still being worked on up until the launch of the console. This is normally the case with most console launches as well.

 

[LewieP]

Does anyone have those quotes from Iwata(?) about how they were aiming to produce a much better "development environment" for developers? I'm guessing this relates to the SDK and not a game engine like PhyreEngine? Or maybe both? The new Nintendo developer site from last year seems to be a step in the right direction.

I'd also point to their apparent use of Vulkan for NX and their continued relationship with Unity to be positive signs.

No doubt they are aiming to have Unreal 4 supported on NX too, given how it's increasingly popular among Japanese publishers, and all involved parties would benefit from UE4 support on NX.

 

[E-phonk]

Really? This is the first time I've heard of it. Could that be what killed 3rd party support early on?

There were multiple articles/mummblings at the time of the SDK being buggy, having only limited documentation in english and often when there was a problem it had to go to a translator to japan and back to a translator in order to get an answer that might not even give any insight into the original problem.

It improved afterwards, but the first few months were terrible for devs apparently.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Hell, I'll do you one better: in Japanese, the word Kimishima keeps using is "ki," meaning "machine." Singular. One machine.

"ki" could also mean "life force", as in the NX is powered by the user's life force and will kill them over time.

 

[Jackano]

From my understanding, from the developers that refuted parts of that hit piece, generally, SDK are still being worked on up until the launch of the console. This is normally the case with most console launches as well.

There is a difference between continuing the work during and after release and not being able to provide your(?) and 3rd party developers a decent working environment.

Plus, this time, with that whole new architecture thing and unified OS, they better not mess up from the start.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Yeah, 3DS has better polygon-crunching capabilities than N64, but it's missing a lot of features. 3DS could never run Perfect Dark, for example, especially with that game's lighting effects.

You sure you don't mean the DS? I'm pretty sure the 3DS can fart its way through any N64 lighting effects.

 

[disap.ed]

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

What does this term mean (non-native here)? Thx in advance.

 

[Cow Mengde]

What does this term mean (non-native here)? Thx in advance.

It was garbage.

 

[GhostTrick]

The SDK should be everyone's biggest concern. The Wii U SDK was a solid gold dumpster fire until a full year post release.

Yes of course but the hardware also matters. When your CPU doesn't support some instructions or is too old. When your GPU doesnt support such features.
Wii U was poorly designed hardware wise.