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Sony Announces FY 2009 Annual Results,Sets Ambitious PS3 Sales Target
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
jett said:
An unfortunate Japanese economic condition is probably not helping.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
ULTROS! said:It's interesting though that the PS3 is doing better than the PS1.
PS1 was very back-loaded. It sold basically nothing until 97-98, and then it took off like a rocket. I'd advise against generational comparisons of any console to the PS1.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
ULTROS! said:
Of the "market leading" consoles:
NES took about 4 years to launch and be in stock worldwide. It took over a year from its initial US launch to regular stocking in the US. Trying to compare anything to the NES is not advised for this reason.
SNES did well out of the gate and continued pretty well, although it had a second wind around 95 or so.
PS1 sold essentially nothing until 97 and then took off like a rocket.
PS2 basically kicked ass right out of the gate.
Wii basically kicked ass right out of the gate.
jett said:
They only lost 33 million dollars in the Network Products blah blah blah this quarter. That's down from last year, and the lowest in a long while iirc.
Fake-edit: Let me check my maths
Real-edit: My yen conversion skills fail, more like a loss of only 330 million. My previous point does not stand anymore. :lol
Kaz actually hoped SCE to be profitable in the FY that started in April 2008DMeisterJ said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/80487-Kaz-Hirai-Hopes-for-Profitable-PlayStation-3-in-2008
I remember Oneda ( Sony CFO ) telling , just around the system launch, that he fully expected PS3 to be unprofitable initially but that the plan was to start gains profit in 2008.
szaromir said:
I think his point was that short of the 99 euro mark, they've practically exhausted price movement here in Europe. Shuffling price won't do anything in this context, shuffling the offering is what they need to do (hence natal, hence slim etc.). They need a 'new' machine, a new image, a new buzz, not a new price really.
jett said:
No they're not losing money anymore on PS3, as already stated multiple times.
Oneda says: "The company stopped losing money from PS3 consoles in March and will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3, compared with a loss of about 50 billion yen in the year ended March 31."
yurinka
Member
No, because from a financial perspective is ok because the important is the long term strategy.Hunahan said:
As they did before with the other consoles, they loose money at the start of the generation with the new console. Reducing costs, after some years they start to make money with the console and its games. PS3 started to be profitable this year.
And the console has HD & BlueRay, so it helped with Bravia sales and to win the BlueRay vs DVDHD war, so they also get (and specially will get) additional money with their BlueRay players and BlueRay movies sold, not only by Sony or their studios.
Same happens with 3D. Sony will want to make it work even loosing money at the start because they are going to have 3D photo cameras, 3D video cameras, 3D projectors, 3D movies, 3D BlueRay players, 3D TVs, 3D games, and the PS3 so they will want to have profit with them.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
Hey math wizards, I haven't notice any of you include sony's continued strengths.
Game sales: The PS3 has no piracy and game sales both for sony and third parties make profits. Game sales excuse sony from operating at a loss.
Multiple ps3's: Because Sony was remodelling their console to be slimmer,more efficient and, more attractive. The ps3 owner happy with the device might buy it twice. This sends the old consoles to the used market(or somewhere else in the household). Expanding the user base quickly and effectively. The same can't be said the 360, because those consoles are likely only to be replaced when broken.
HDTV Penetration: Side by side with HDTV's will always be the recommendation of a PS3, while the hardcore gamer will be moving on to new products like Move, 2010 will actually be very close at HDTV's replace standard definitions tv entirely in store.
Game sales: The PS3 has no piracy and game sales both for sony and third parties make profits. Game sales excuse sony from operating at a loss.
Multiple ps3's: Because Sony was remodelling their console to be slimmer,more efficient and, more attractive. The ps3 owner happy with the device might buy it twice. This sends the old consoles to the used market(or somewhere else in the household). Expanding the user base quickly and effectively. The same can't be said the 360, because those consoles are likely only to be replaced when broken.
HDTV Penetration: Side by side with HDTV's will always be the recommendation of a PS3, while the hardcore gamer will be moving on to new products like Move, 2010 will actually be very close at HDTV's replace standard definitions tv entirely in store.
Studio count doesn't matter at all. What Sony showed at GDC was creatively bancrupt and there's no way Move will take off this year with that kind of software. MS does have a bunch of studios working on Natal games and if they working on something more inspiring than Natal Sports than they might have a bigger chance than Sony at capturing the extended audience. I'd say the Milo demo was the most interesting thing I've seen of Natal and Move, but that's apparently a hoax and final thing might turn out rather lacking.Baki said:
You probably remember this one from 6 months ago:DMeisterJ said:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26144/Sony_Game_Biz_To_Be_Profitable_By_2011.php
DevilWillcry
Member
:lolCeline said:
Made the forecast eh. $900 million loss for the fiscal does someone have the running data for the big three? Thread is around here somewhere, but I suspect this puts the division at about 5.5 billion+ loss for the generation. What is the loss for the quarter? I'm not even sure why at this point they would manage even $50 off the price this fiscal year without dipping right back into those losses since they are just now hitting even. Depending on the data today the 360 lead in the US will have extended itself beyond what it was right before the $100 price cut and slim. I could see the financials improving a bit if the currency situation turned, but I actually see that getting much worse going forward. As already stated here I suspect much stiffer competition in NA this holiday compared to last with a 360 slim, Natal, and real price cut with or without GT. Same could be said for Europe although GT will help. It's possible even another Wii price cut could happen although I didn't really believe that a month or two ago. Could they hit 15, sure, but it would take one heck of a move on the price to be sure which will surely extend those losses on out. PS2 is free money but will continue to dip and PSP seems like it's time for something new and surely not helping much at all if not hurting.
It's actually $851 million in the last 3 and headed for billion for the fiscal year with a decent last quarter. Pretty much the opposite of Sony here.
I think Pachter is right though a paid PSN is almost certainly coming, but if they keep a free model I'm not sure how far off the ground it will get.
szaromir said:
It's actually $851 million in the last 3 and headed for billion for the fiscal year with a decent last quarter. Pretty much the opposite of Sony here.
I think Pachter is right though a paid PSN is almost certainly coming, but if they keep a free model I'm not sure how far off the ground it will get.
velvet_nitemare
Member
:lolCeline said:
szaromir said:
One thing that's irked me so far about Move, or I suppose that's curious, is that practically all the software coming from Sony isn't from existing Sony studios. They're nearly all from new studios, or from external studios they've contracted in (with the exception of one game from Sony Cambridge).
Filling a gap until their more 'star' studios adopt it? Or recognition that it needs a different type of software altogether? Either way, Sony's not really leveraging their established talent for it. Yet, anyway...maybe we'll see that change at E3 or TGS, but that'll likely be for non-launch, 2011 software anyway.
yurinka
Member
The differences are:schuelma said:
a) This gen the tech is more expensive, there is a global economic crisis and now they have stronger rivals, so they needed more years to make it profitable.
b) Unlike PS2 and specially PS1, PS3 is a trojan horse to sell HD, BlueRay and 3D so to make long term profit in other Sony divisions, giving back in some years the extra money needed by the point a).
I don't see the problem.
Rapping Granny
Banned
Wow, how the fuck do you lose $900million?
yurinka said:
err...yeah..that's kind of my point. The first two systems gained Sony billions. This system has lost them billions. Pretty big difference that I don't see changing just from another 2-3 years on the market.
Jtyettis said:
They made a profit. I haven't seen what that profit was, just that it was 'based on strong first party software sales and negation of the loss on PS3 hardware'.
Jtyettis said:
Will depend on continuing cost reductions on hardware and software sales expectations. It would seem like a smaller ask than the $100 cut was last year though...if software keeps bouncing up along with the userbase growth and they can eke out some more hardware savings.
Jtyettis said:
A statement like that somewhat hides the improvement Sony's seen in the US. Whatever MS is selling, Sony's selling a lot more than they were before and with it more software which will be the real key in driving improvements in their financials. Their competitive position has also significantly improved in the US, which a simple comparison of market rank (i.e. who's sold more?) won't show.
yurinka
Member
Remember they have 20 Move games from Sony coming this fiscal year, and 36 3rd party companies are working in Move games. And considering 3rd party companies have typically more than 1 studio, make sure there will be more than 36 games coming from them.gofreak said:
This is a really huge support considering the install base is 0 at the start (so low game sales at start). Almost all the GDC stuff was cheaply outsourced, normal with low userbase, but I wouldn't say the same about the other games.
Make sure they have something more than shovelware, they won't spent all that money in just some crappy party games.
Make sure their all their big games where it makes sense will support Move, too. Because even if they were all crappy party shovelware, more than 50 games is a lot of money, and they won't spend it if they don't know there is something big behind that.
I supouse they learned from the Wii.
http://gamernode.com/news/8892-playstation-move-to-have-20-first-party-games-36-third-party-publishers-supporting/index.html
gofreak said:
It shouldn't be curious and you shouldn't expect this to change, that's how Sony works.
Secondary "platforms" (PSP, Move, Eyetoy) get, outside of some exceptions, outsourced games from B/C teams while the majority of SCE teams do traditional PS3 (PS2 last gen) games.
gofreak said:
Wait I thought they made a profit last quarter(Christmas quarter)? The first two quarters combined with two net profits it is still $900 million?
yurinka said:
Huh, had no idea it was pacing at that rate before. I think the possibilty of a profit could happen then with no price cut and the currency situation improving then. Really depends on the performance in these next couple of quarters. Still think paid PSN is coming however.
yurinka
Member
yepJtyettis said:
Now the console HW is making profit, and both HW and SW sales are growing. They also have Move, GT5 to help, in addition to good that surely will have ok sales without selling HW like LBP2 or the stuff they will announce in E3.Jtyettis said:
Unless the economical crisis fuck some big European country after Greece and the things became crazy in Europe (let's hope not), I see a bright future.
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19625436&postcount=90Jtyettis said:
SCE had worse losses in recent years.Rapping Granny said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's worth noting that with these losses, Sony has now officially lost money since entering the game industry.
so your argument is one of three:
- Their financial release lied when it said they lost 900 million
- They lost money on PSN, PS2, and the PSP, but not the PS3, and that accounts for 900 million
- They did lose 900 million this year, primarily on the PS3, but magically this March they reduced costs on the PS3's manufacturing by $60 overnight and so now instead of losing $900 million, they'll break even
good luck with that
Esteban said:
so your argument is one of three:
- Their financial release lied when it said they lost 900 million
- They lost money on PSN, PS2, and the PSP, but not the PS3, and that accounts for 900 million
- They did lose 900 million this year, primarily on the PS3, but magically this March they reduced costs on the PS3's manufacturing by $60 overnight and so now instead of losing $900 million, they'll break even
good luck with that
Stumpokapow said:
Wait they wiped out the PS1 era profits? I thought they still had a billion or so to go? Where is that running thread while we need it heh. Anyhow, they got to be thinking profit line going forward one would think. I mean they have been talking about a focus on profit for years now.
Jtyettis said:
That's what they say, re. 'the games business'.
Jtyettis said:
I think they may be referencing something different.
I don't see how NPS could have posted a profit in this quarter.
But they referred to 'the games business' I think when they were talking about a profit in this quarter.
Games business is a subset of NPS, which I reckon should have posted a loss of ~8bn yen in this quarter.
I'll see if I can find their quarterly report, for Q4 to try and get clarification.
Baki
Member
For Q1 and 2 they had the money sinkin fatties. Not to mention at the end of Q1 they dropped the price of the fatties by $100 USD leading to massive Q2 losses (not to mention the expense of producing 3M slims). Q3 and Q4 they made money (and in Q4 the PS3 stopped leakin moolah).Stumpokapow said:
Loss - $900m.
They sold 13m units, that averages to at least $70 lost per unit. Considering all the profit margins made off software and their other businesses, this loss margin per console must have been much much higher to have incurred a net loss of $900m for the Networked Products division.
They sold 13m units, that averages to at least $70 lost per unit. Considering all the profit margins made off software and their other businesses, this loss margin per console must have been much much higher to have incurred a net loss of $900m for the Networked Products division.
yurinka
Member
This 900 million cover the entire year, from March 09 to March 10. First 2 quarters Sony loosed a lot of money, the third quarter had some profit and the fourth too.Stumpokapow said:
In March 10 (the month when this fiscal year ends), PS3 HW starts to make profit. An remember, this division has more things than PS3 HW, including Vaios.
It isn't that hard.
hsukardi said:
I think you pin too much responsibility on Game for NPS overall results.
By the sounds of it, for the last quarter, Game made a profit while NPS overall had a loss. So...you can't really work your math like that.
I'm surprised at the discrepancy between 'game' and NPS for the last quarter. I'm trying to find more detail.