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[Clear]

holy fucking shit. they went from first to last and lost over 4 billion dollars and you're seeing a rosy picture?

Sales of hardware and software = cash flow.

Cash flow is king in business. Noone gives a shit about how much money is in your war-chest if your products aren't selling because thats not a market opportunity - its static.

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

 

[Miles X]

Sales of hardware and software = cash flow.

Cash flow is king in business. Noone gives a shit about how much money is in your war-chest if your products aren't selling because thats not a market opportunity - its static.

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

Wow ... you really can't use LTD console sales as a measure to success ... one of those consoles has broken even/made a profit, been a big jump over its predecessor and is gonna be #1 in 2/3 biggest markets in the world ahead of Wii when all is done. The other lost sony $4b+, is a massive drop from last gen (as others have said lost a lot of brand appeal)

Using LTD install base as a measure is for fanboys.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Sales of hardware and software = cash flow.

Cash flow is king in business. Noone gives a shit about how much money is in your war-chest if your products aren't selling because thats not a market opportunity - its static.

The flow of cash is currently out of Sony's pockets. Are you even aware of the thread topic?

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

Only in the number of units shifted (largely through swallowing a big part of the cost for the consumer, so practically paying them to buy their product, until the slim gave them more breathing room), but not at all in the amount of money earned.

Not to mention that "the cavalcade of calamities" doesn't even hold the candle to the amount of damage Sony has inflicted on itself through poor planning and mismanagement.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I'm a gamer who evidently cares far more about his hobby than you. And one who can't stand uppity casual kiddies dismissing others opinions outright and insulting them? The arrogance in assuming your tastes should be supported by everyone - it's laughable. I can see from your profound eloquence why you were awarded that tag. stay classy, dudebro.

To return to the topic at hand, your ravings having derailed it enough, release Dungeon Keeper as a move compatible title, and I'll purchase a PS3 that very moment! Alas, none of their planned releases are strong enough to convince me it offers much over the 360.

Ok wait. you can't be this dense.

You read the posts I posted, read the posts I was replying to, and somehow in that head of yours conjured that this is the position that Im taking? The guy saying that gaming should be able to be enjoyed by whoever for what ever reason is "arrogant" and a "uppity casual kittie" while you and this other clown who are posting this vile about why gaming should only be available to some elite-super-master race of gamers are the sensible and eloquent heroes of the industry?

Im glad you are done about this subject because I will probably facepalm myself to death reading this stuff you and the other guy are posting.

Sigh

The flow of cash is currently out of Sony's pockets. Are you even aware of the thread topic?

Maybe you should read more than just the thread topic to see whats likely going on?

 

[Vinci]

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

Keep in mind that a decent portion of Sony's calamities were self-inflicted. I still have a hard time imagining the wanton stupidity and/or audacity Sony had to possess to think the PS3 was a good idea.

 

[Taurus]

Sales of hardware and software = cash flow.

Cash flow is king in business. Noone gives a shit about how much money is in your war-chest if your products aren't selling because thats not a market opportunity - its static.

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

Sony lost every penny they made with PS1, PS2 and PSP during PS3 era. Talk about a success!

MS is a healthy company with shitloads of money behind them. Sony is one hell of a mess bleeding money left and right. The gap between PS3 and X360 isn't meaningful in anyway. It could be even the otherway with PS3 leading with couple of millions, and still wouldn't make a difference.

You can't spin PS3 a successful product no matter how hard you try.

 

[2MF]

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

Correction: Partly because of the calamities Sony has endured (such as big and early price cuts that boosted sales), they managed to come within spitting distance of MS at a huge monetary cost.

After Sony's mistakes in planning the PS3, they lost a lot money so that they could make the PS3 viable.

 

[Clear]

Using LTD install base as a measure is for fanboys.

Its less about LTD in itself than the ongoing sales that contribute to that figure, which shows brand strength, market penetration, and Cash flow which are like kinda important in judging how a business is doing.

You show an upside on these things and its a lot easier to secure investment during difficult times.

Its not fanboyism dude, its the reality of doing business. People care about what's happening now, and what's likely to transpire tomorrow. That's the bottom line.

The flow of cash is currently out of Sony's pockets. Are you even aware of the thread topic?

So you can prove categorically that this deficit, which didn't show up on their quarterly sheets for the unit isn't a one-off writedown on, say, buying out Ericcson from their joint partnership?

You don't know, you're just assuming, so back off with the passive-aggression thankyou.

Sony lost every penny they made with PS1, PS2 and PSP during PS3 era. Talk about a success!

No. Just no.

The original assertion about how much money Sony lost on launching PS3 was made in the press by David Perry (Legendary "Space Bastard"*, former CEO of defunct dev Shiny Entertainment, and now head-honcho of Gaikai), so it wasn't actually from an accredited analyst or even anyone in the financial sector. It was a pithy quote, which has taken on a life of its own over the years.

What amazes me is that anyone is stupid enough to finger the PS3 *specifically* for such huge losses. I mean seriously, where do you think the money is actually going?

PS3 hardware hasn't been sold at a loss since 2009, and even if it was, how much do you think they must be losing per unit to kill any equity from ALL associated software and services revenue from which has improved YoY every year since launch.

Do you think, maybe, just maybe, that you need to SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY? Such as building network infrastructure, acquiring studios, researching and launching new platforms under the SCE umbrella, stuff that is only going to show profit in the long-term.

Its called INVESTMENT.

You want a rational, meaningful, discussion, define the scope of the topic under consideration (are we talking product, platform, business unit, overall corporate state?) and stick to that subject with data in hand. You can't pick-and-choose factoids from all over in order to suit your argument without looking like an ignoramus.

You accusing me of "spin" is laughable.


*UK insiders of a certain age will know this reference, its not a random slam.

 

[Sipowicz]

Sales of hardware and software = cash flow.

Cash flow is king in business. Noone gives a shit about how much money is in your war-chest if your products aren't selling because thats not a market opportunity - its static.

And as I pointed out, DESPITE the cavalcade of calamities Sony have endured they are still within spitting distance of MS (the supposed big "winners") with the gap looking to narrow closer unless 360's NA sales start to pick up again.

am i reading this right?

there is no way that sony will recover from the colossal losses incurred this gen. the company as a whole is in the doldrums with no realistic way of recovering. their latest system was a huge failure that already looks as if it's done for. they've just lost a billion dollars. they've lost market dominance, support and their brand has been weakened significantly. they're due to release a new console fairly soon (and incur any associated costs)

but everything is ok because they're within spitting distance of this generations second best selling console and they've got a bit money coming in?


and you're complaining about being accused of spin?

 

[H_Prestige]

I'm pretty sure both MS and Nintendo are beating Sony in terms of cash flow as well.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Maybe you should read more than just the thread topic to see whats likely going on?

I did, although I didn't read the whole thread. I didn't see any plausible alternative explanation, but maybe you can direct me to the specific post.

Regardless, SCE's current situation doesn't change the fact that PS3 is a disaster from the business point of view when you look at the generation as a whole.

So you can prove categorically that this deficit, which didn't show up on their quarterly sheets for the unit isn't a one-off writedown on, say, buying out Ericcson from their joint partnership?

What does Ericsson have to do with SCE? Sony Mobile Communications is a separate company.

By the way, PS3 didn't eat all the profits from PS1 and PS2, but it did eat all the PS2 profits and then some.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's tragicomic how quickly people forget. Remember the opening video of their 2005 E3 conference? It outlines the plan nicely.

Sony were the first and the most aggressive in pushing for more than just gaming on consoles. Their intentions are still exactly the same, but others have taken the lead in actually delivering on those promises.

I always found it weird that MS got their video service running way before Sony did even though Sony owned tv and movie studios.

 

[madmaxx350]

holy fucking shit. they went from first to last and lost over 4 billion dollars and you're seeing a rosy picture?

it is all downhill for sony (and arguably consoles) from here. the playstation brand holds none of the cache it once did, hence the failure of the psp/vita/ps3

their games are still good (on ps3) but reality is reality. it is a shame, but sony is done for

that made me laugh. Ok if PS3 ends up selling 70+ Million I want to know how you can call it a failure, it's far cry from what PS2 sold but still. Seriously, 60+ Million for PSP and PS3 and those are failures?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

that made me laugh. Ok if PS3 ends up selling 70+ Million I want to know how you can call it a failure, it's far cry from what PS2 sold but still. Seriously, 60+ Million for PSP and PS3 and those are failures?

Unit sales mean nothing. Profit from them does. If one company sells 3 billion units and lose money, then that is a failure. If another company sells 1 billion and makes money then it is a success.

Unit sales < profit. They don't always go hand in hand.

 

[Shikoro]

Unit sales mean nothing. Profit from them does. If one company sells 3 billion units and lose money, then that is a failure. If another company sells 1 billion and makes money then it is a success.

Unit sales > profit. They don't always go hand in hand.

Yes, yes, yes, and there isn't such a thing as games... Only consoles bring -or take- money...

 

[EagleBurn]

I'm sure the PS Move helped a lot with that as well.

 

[Clear]

What does Ericsson have to do with SCE? Sony Mobile Communications is a separate company.

Read up on Sony's NPSG and new CPG, these are the the parent divisions of SCE and their mobile phone business amongst other interests, and was at the centre of a major organizational shakeup between Feb and April this year. All these divisions were directly under Kaz Hirai's control prior to his promotion.

Its all very unclear because of the way things were moved round earlier this year, odd things like SCE Japan turning unexplainedly into SNEP for a time just before the reorganization.

Conglomerates and creative accounting most likely.

Regardless, SCE's current situation doesn't change the fact that PS3 is a disaster from the business point of view when you look at the generation as a whole.

Once again, SCE is whole lot more than just PS3. Its Vaio, Walkman, SOE... and a whole bunch of other business!

This is elementary shit. You want to see how a PRODUCT is doing, look at its ongoing sales and ancilliary revenues by themselves, you don't look at the state of the division its in.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Unit sales mean nothing. Profit from them does. If one company sells 3 billion units and lose money, then that is a failure. If another company sells 1 billion and makes money then it is a success.

Unit sales < profit. They don't always go hand in hand.

Yeah, no. Consoles success are measured on more than one fronts. Im sure the Gamecube made Nintendo some profit, but it was far from a success. The PS3 won't make Sony any profit overall so its a failure on that front but if it sold say 70 million consoles than it would be a success on that front.

 

[Bowler]

I cant believe the amount of people in this thread that wish to see a gaming company/Division go under.

unbelievably narrow minded thoughts

 

[golem]

Yes, yes, yes, and there isn't such a thing as games... Only consoles bring -or take- money...

You don't think SCE's financials include games and game licensing fees?

 

[HocusPocus]

I hope Sony can pull through but I don't see a business model for them with another console life cycle if it is anything like PS3.

 

[iamshadowlark]

am i reading this right?

there is no way that sony will recover from the colossal losses incurred this gen. the company as a whole is in the doldrums with no realistic way of recovering. their latest system was a huge failure that already looks as if it's done for. they've just lost a billion dollars. they've lost market dominance, support and their brand has been weakened significantly. they're due to release a new console fairly soon (and incur any associated costs)

but everything is ok because they're within spitting distance of this generations second best selling console and they've got a bit money coming in?


and you're complaining about being accused of spin?

I should ask you the same thing.

I don't know how you can predict the future but its certainly possible for a company like Sony to recover from those kind of losses. The fact that you say that they have no realistic way is disingenuous, its quite obvious what needs to be done to that company. The Vita has had a rough start no doubt, but the system hasn't even received a price cut. Its quite hilarious how you say it "was a failure". Just like the 3DS was failing before its price cut eh?

An industry with 3 solid contenders is not supposed to be a monopoly, I don't know what point you are making by suggesting that they are not slaughtering the competition like they used to do. It was bound to happen, this ain't the OS industry. I also don't know what you are going on about when you say they have lost support either.

Lastly, anybody with any kind of microeconomic knowledge can tell you that this billion dollar loss is not what it seems. They haven't shown a penny of loss in this sector for 3 consecutive quarters. With a new console assured to launch next year, the implications should be pretty obvious but I guess you just choose to ignore that? There is a pretty glaring outlier here.

I don't know what goes on in your world but companies tend to move forward with business, not dwell in past incidents. Sony seems to keep pace with or out-perform MS worldwide the majority of the year, at a higher price of entry. Since 06 they have shipped roughly 180+ million units of playstation hardware. For you and others to act like the brand is already dead in the water with no chance of waking back up is sensationalist drivel. Sony has plenty of ground to capitalize on if they can find the right method.

 

[Iacobellis]

Maybe if Sony cancelled The Tester, they could save some money.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Read up on Sony's NPSG and new CPG, these are the the parent divisions of SCE and their mobile phone business amongst other interests, and was at the centre of a major organizational shakeup between Feb and April this year. All these divisions were directly under Kaz Hirai's control prior to his promotion.

Its all very unclear because of the way things were moved round earlier this year, odd things like SCE Japan turning unexplainedly into SNEP for a time just before the reorganization.

Conglomerates and creative accounting most likely.



Once again, SCE is whole lot more than just PS3. Its Vaio, Walkman, SOE... and a whole bunch of other business!

This is elementary shit. You want to see how a PRODUCT is doing, look at its ongoing sales and ancilliary revenues by themselves, you don't look at the state of the division its in.

You seem confused. Vaio, Walkman and other stuff like that is not part of SCE. SCE is in the same division for reporting purposes as those products but they aren't SCE.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yeah, no. Consoles success are measured on more than one fronts. Im sure the Gamecube made Nintendo some profit, but it was far from a success. The PS3 won't make Sony any profit overall so its a failure on that front but if it sold say 70 million consoles than it would be a success on that front.

The GameCube was more of a success than the PS3 currently is. The point of business is to make a profit for your shareholders. Unit sales are only a measure of success for fanboys, profits are a measure of success for all businesses.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Yes, yes, yes, and there isn't such a thing as games... Only consoles bring -or take- money...

Yeah, no. Consoles success are measured on more than one fronts. Im sure the Gamecube made Nintendo some profit, but it was far from a success. The PS3 won't make Sony any profit overall so its a failure on that front but if it sold say 70 million consoles than it would be a success on that front.

We are talking in a thread with a "Fiscal Report" embedded in its title, not "Best Quality Games" or "Best Quality Hardware" or whatever else.

It's mind-boggling how anyone can ever perceive a deficit of almost a hundred billion yen as flower, sunshine, and rainbows.

I cant believe the amount of people in this thread that wish to see a gaming company/Division go under.

unbelievably narrow minded thoughts

You must have missed all the vitrols in GAF towards companies such as EA and such.

 

[bangai-o]

I think this is the first time it feels like Sonys gaming business is really in trouble.

dreamcast revenge

 

[Valnen]

I cant believe the amount of people in this thread that wish to see a gaming company/Division go under.

unbelievably narrow minded thoughts

Yup. This thread reminds me more of Gamefaqs than anything else. Lots of kids wanting to see the system they don't own die.

 

[HyperionX]

I cant believe the amount of people in this thread that wish to see a gaming company/Division go under.

unbelievably narrow minded thoughts

Actually, if we can shrink the number of platforms one has to buy to get all the games, this would actually be a good thing.

Sometimes it really is better to have fewer, but stronger, competitors.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Read up on Sony's NPSG and new CPG, these are the the parent divisions of SCE and their mobile phone business amongst other interests, and was at the centre of a major organizational shakeup between Feb and April this year. All these divisions were directly under Kaz Hirai's control prior to his promotion.

Parents organizations are one thing, but it appears this is specifically about SCE, not the whole CPSG/ex-NPSG.

Once again, SCE is whole lot more than just PS3. Its Vaio, Walkman, SOE... and a whole bunch of other business!

You probably meant CPSG, not SCE, but regardless, until 2009 SCE was a separate entity, as far as reporting goes, and that's where the majority of those numbers come from.

You want to see how a PRODUCT is doing, look at its ongoing sales and ancilliary revenues by themselves, you don't look at the state of the division its in.

If you want to see how a product is doing, you also have to look at the associated costs and expenses, just looking at the revenues it generates means nothing.

 

[speedline]

The PS3 is a fine console, but it really had a huge disadvantage with price, cell, and the 1 year head start for MS. Thats too bad as I really like PS3 over the other consoles.

 

[Krilekk]

I don't know what goes on in your world but companies tend to move forward with business, not dwell in past incidents. Sony seems to keep pace with or out-perform MS worldwide the majority of the year, at a higher price of entry. Since 06 they have shipped roughly 180+ million units of playstation hardware. For you and others to act like the brand is already dead in the water with no chance of waking back up is sensationalist drivel. Sony has plenty of ground to capitalize on if they can find the right method.

Shipping 180 million units of hardware at a loss is not exactly a successful business. The problem is that they can't capitalize anything anymore. They are so far in debt they can only go the Nintendo route for the future. Granted, no console maker will make losses with their next gen platform because this generation was too costly. But Sony couldn't sell hardware at a loss if they had to, they simply can't afford to go to console war with Microsoft. Which means Microsoft has already won.

 

[iamshadowlark]

The GameCube was more of a success than the PS3 currently is. The point of business is to make a profit for your shareholders. Unit sales are only a measure of success for fanboys, profits are a measure of success for all businesses.

Hell no. The fact that the GC made a mini-profit doesn't change the fact that it was pretty much a clunker in the publics eye. I mean how much you think a gamecube 2 would have sold?

Profit, is one of the main goals of a business no doubt(albeit I don't know one company who gives a damn about making money for shareholders) but its far from the only one. The condescending point you made about unit sales being something that fanboys care about is funny. Its like you haven't seen the dozens of companies presentations where they focus on unit sales and overall market share. They go hand in hand.

For companies interested in selling future products, sales have a damn good sized weight. Do you think that if Nintendo had three generations straight of mini-successes like the GC that we would still be talking about them in the industry today?

We are talking in a thread with a "Fiscal Report" embedded in its title, not "Best Quality Games" or "Best Quality Hardware" or whatever else.

It's mind-boggling how anyone can ever perceive a deficit of almost a hundred billion yen as flower, sunshine, and rainbows.

Its like you haven't read the thread at all.

Shipping 180 million units of hardware at a loss is not exactly a successful business. The problem is that they can't capitalize anything anymore. They are so far in debt they can only go the Nintendo route for the future. Granted, no console maker will make losses with their next gen platform because this generation was too costly. But Sony couldn't sell hardware at a loss if they had to, they simply can't afford to go to console war with Microsoft. Which means Microsoft has already won.

This is just wrong. On so many levels.

Sony isn't goin the Nintendo route LMAO. Microsoft is their main competition and I don't see where you got the idea that you need to be able to match their bank account to compete with them. The gaming industry has never been about who can throw the most money at something.From everything we've heard the PS4 is &#8805; the next Xbox and as you said they won't lose much money on it.


As a matter of fact, MS's document leak shows that they are going more down the Nintendo route than Sony.

 

[mrklaw]

am i reading this right?

there is no way that sony will recover from the colossal losses incurred this gen. the company as a whole is in the doldrums with no realistic way of recovering. their latest system was a huge failure that already looks as if it's done for. they've just lost a billion dollars. they've lost market dominance, support and their brand has been weakened significantly. they're due to release a new console fairly soon (and incur any associated costs)

but everything is ok because they're within spitting distance of this generations second best selling console and they've got a bit money coming in?

Yes.

What is ithe past is ancient history in terms of business results. What matters to shareholders etc is current and future performance. PS3 was painful. But if they can reach parity with MS by the end of this gen, and launch PS4 in a similar timeframe and at similar cost,nthen the PS4 should look a solid investment for the company.

Right now Ps3 is making money for them.

 

[Diablos]

Yes.

What is ithe past is ancient history in terms of business results. What matters to shareholders etc is current and future performance. PS3 was painful. But if they can reach parity with MS by the end of this gen, and launch PS4 in a similar timeframe and at similar cost,nthen the PS4 should look a solid investment for the company.

Right now Ps3 is making money for them.

It should look like a solid investment under ideal circumstances -- that, of course, being that the market is still big enough for three consoles...

By the end of next-gen I think someone is going to take a fall.

 

[Punchpudding]

I like that there are two perspectives in this thread. The "Glass is half empty" group and the "Glass is FULL and if you don't think it's FULL it's because you don't know BUSINESS" group.

I think R&D for future projects has to make up a big chunk of that deficit but 2011 was also a pretty expensive year for SCE wasn't it? Vita launch. PSN security issues. Floods. Socom 4 struggling and Zipper getting closed down... I could see things being better than they appear but not as good as Sony would like.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I like that there are two perspectives in this thread. The "Glass is half empty" group and the "Glass is FULL and if you don't think it's FULL it's because you don't know BUSINESS" group.

I think R&D for future projects has to make up a big chunk of that deficit but 2011 was also a pretty expensive year for SCE wasn't it? Vita launch. PSN security issues. Floods. Socom 4 struggling and Zipper getting closed down... I could see things being better than they appear but not as good as Sony would like.

It isn't even about that. Sony has reported 3 straight quarters of profit for SCE, you don't lose 1.2 billion in one quarter due to SG&A. Its kinda simple really.

 

[Punchpudding]

It isn't even about that. Sony has reported 3 straight quarters of profit for SCE, you don't lose 1.2 billion in one quarter due to SG&A. Its kinda simple really.

My understanding is that companies can choose to a degree when they want to report certain costs. Like MS did during the RROD fiasco where they reported all costs for replacements/repairs in a single quarter to make their other quarters look better. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is enough info publicly available to make the call on this particular case yet.

 

[iamshadowlark]

My understanding is that companies can choose to a degree when they want to report certain costs. Like MS did during the RROD fiasco where they reported all costs for replacements/repairs in a single quarter to make their other quarters look better. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is enough info publicly available to make the call on this particular case yet.

No, you usually will get in trouble for trying to deceive your shareholders, I think RRoD was different. Your last sentence is pretty much what most of us have been saying though.

 

[Punchpudding]

No, you usually will get in trouble for trying to deceive your shareholders, I think RRoD was different. Your last sentence is pretty much what most of us have been saying though.

Well sure you could. PSN security (and rebranding) is an ongoing cost but you could report it as a single item when you've decided on a budget for it. It happens not necessarily to deceive people but sometimes because it is a more coherent way to show where money is being spent. And if we don't know enough to make the call then maybe everyone who is seeing the negative side of this story may have a good chance to being right too..

 

[iamshadowlark]

Well sure you could. PSN security (and rebranding) is an ongoing cost but you could report it as a single item when you've decided on a budget for it. It happens not necessarily to deceive people but sometimes because it is a more coherent way to show where money is being spent. And if we don't know enough to make the call then maybe everyone who is seeing the negative side of this story may have a good chance to being right too..

What you say here has some truth to it but its the same as what you said initially.

Like MS did during the RROD fiasco where they reported all costs for replacements/repairs in a single quarter to make their other quarters look better

This is frowned upon and could get you in trouble with the S.E.C.

Anyways, Sony usually gives a good implication of what attributes to losses. If its due to Vita, PSN, floods or whatever they usually say it. The fact that they attributed it to SG&A is what raises the flags. This is simply too big a loss to be attributed to anything within their usual operating picture, floods or what have you included. Its initial PS3 level.

There is not enough info to say anything concrete but there are obvious indicators during this transitional period for this type of loss and the manners of its reporting.

 

[RukusProvider]

Do you think, maybe, just maybe, that you need to SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY? Such as building network infrastructure, acquiring studios, researching and launching new platforms under the SCE umbrella, stuff that is only going to show profit in the long-term.

Its called INVESTMENT.

Plenty of companies make investments and still remain profitable. Sony wouldn't be the first to pull off such a miracle.

 

[Clear]

Plenty of companies make investments and still remain profitable. Sony wouldn't be the first to pull off such a miracle.

True, but when your assets are damaged by natural disasters (like $161m they needed to repair flood-damaged facilities in Thailand) you need one-time only writedowns

You seem confused. Vaio, Walkman and other stuff like that is not part of SCE. SCE is in the same division for reporting purposes as those products but they aren't SCE.

Yeah I made a mistake, they all fall under the CPS banner. Its hard to track because there's obvious evidence of some sort of shell game going on. SCEJ temporarily becoming SNEP in Feb (Good luck trying to find anything on that in their consolidated financials for the year!) was very odd and remains unexplained as far as I know.

 

[Canis lupus]

pfff

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Hell no. The fact that the GC made a mini-profit doesn't change the fact that it was pretty much a clunker in the publics eye. I mean how much you think a gamecube 2 would have sold?

GameCube 2 was called the Wii and it did pretty good if you haven't noticed.

 

[ASIS]

GameCube 2 was called the Wii and it did pretty good if you haven't noticed.

By Gamecube 2 he means a console that put it out the same level of market share and profit as the Gamecube. It is a hypothetical console, not a real one.

He does have a point though, but I could argue that the GC was more successful than the PS3 given the latest data. For instance, lets reverse this argument. Can Sony really sustain a "PS3" level of performance three generations in a row? The answer is no. Both the GC and the PS3 were successful in some areas and failures in others. But as far as keeping the public interested, the PS3 did a better job, no question about it.


Sorry I don't even know what you guys were arguing about, just wanted to put my 2 cents

 

[iamshadowlark]

GameCube 2 was called the Wii and it did pretty good if you haven't noticed.

What? How is the Wii even close to a Gamcube, other than using similar HW?

By Gamecube 2 he means a console that put it out the same level of market share and profit as the Gamecube. It is a hypothetical console, not a real one.

He does have a point though, but I could argue that the GC was more successful than the PS3 given the latest data. For instance, lets reverse this argument. Can Sony really sustain a "PS3" level of performance three generations in a row? The answer is no. Both the GC and the PS3 were successful in some areas and failures in others. But as far as keeping the public interested, the PS3 did a better job, no question about it.


Sorry I don't even know what you guys were arguing about, just wanted to put my 2 cents

My point is that companies don't tend to aspire for GC level profit, and want to avoid its market performance all together. No company wants to ever take PS3 like losses if they don't have to, but most would want to sell say 70 million units.

Gamecube required Nintendo to go back to square one on the drawing board, PS3 gives Sony something to move foward on.

 

[Meelow]

I think Sony really needs to make the PS4 profitable day 1, if they don't than Sony would make a huge mistake (and we seen that this gen about how much the PS3 cost at launch), I really don't want to see Sony leave the console race.

 

[Kasumi1970]

I cant believe the amount of people in this thread that wish to see a gaming company/Division go under.

unbelievably narrow minded thoughts

I seen people wish both microsoft and Sony gaming company/Division go under. All the game company can do evil things.

 

[Orin GA]

What? How is the Wii even close to a Gamcube, other than using similar HW?



My point is that companies don't tend to aspire for GC level profit, and want to avoid its market performance all together. No company wants to ever take PS3 like losses if they don't have too, but most would want to sell say 70 million units.

Gamecube required Nintendo to go back to square one on the drawing board, PS3 gives Sony something to move foward on.

I can imagine it now.....

Sony CEO: Hey, we took a huge financial loss, but at least we got 70 million units out there. High five you guys?


FIRED