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[Nirolak]

Yeah, I feel like if Microsoft is trying to start fresh (i.e. not keeping Scorpio as an upgrade to Xbox One, but instead making it a brand new generation for them) things are going to start getting weird.

I hope Scorpio will be enough new and different to justify this so soon.

Well, they did do this once before. The original Xbox was only on the market four years before the Xbox 360, and they did that move to help upset the generation to a more favorable scenario (and it worked!)

Mind, I think Sony is in a much better state in terms of being able to manage a console platform in 2016 than they were in 2006.

 

[Marty Chinn]

According to House, Sony wants to ensure there are enough games and experiences that can showcase the Neo’s improved functionality before officially unveiling it to the public, which is why it won’t be revealed at E3.

Speaking more broadly about consumer reaction, House believes buyers have become used to frequent, and often costly, upgrades thanks in part to the emergence of high-end smartphones.

"We want to ensure we have a full range of the best experiences on the new system that we can showcase in their entirety," continued the Sony Interactive Entertainment president.

"The consumer is attuned to a different cadence of innovation in technology thanks in great part for the upgrades cadence on mobile phones or PCs."

Wait, according to "experts" in all the other threads, there's almost no work involved. All the work is already done and they just need to toggle a few values in a config file. Sony shouldn't have to wait since everything is already done and so easy to just add to existing PS4 games. Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

 

[thuway]

I mean I think either option is fine overall. It's just I feel things have arrived where they are today because of the interests each went into this with.

If Sony doesn't feel comfortable with a more powerful Xbox even for a short term period, then yeah, I could see them waiting until 2017 and effectively releasing a new generation console with a mandatory cross generation requirement.

I honestly do feel 80%+ of the PS4's success stemmed from them have a $400 box that ran third party games objectively better than Microsoft's $500 box as opposed to their first party software/marketing/OS/policies/etc, so I could imagine a scenario where they really felt the need to guard that hardware scenario, or at least maintain relative parity.

I have a nagging suspicion Sony might have had multiple hardware designs in the brief case and were testing the waters so to speak. If the original Osiris Black leak is true, than I am sure the option is on the table to release a $499 machine with Scorpio level performance. I do wonder how the community would react to that.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Does anything...even the most high ends pcs even have 128 GB of ram? That just sounds ridiculous.

Even if such a thing existed the price would be astromonical.


Any hope ps4k gets more ram? Or is it just a gpu and cpu bump?

I knew someone would say that. Like I said it is the whole system memory not for GPU only. If we have laptops that have 64 GB DDR4 RAM (Lenovo ThinkPad P50 and P70 since last year) and we expect HBM2 to introduce 16 GB and 32 GB of VRAM (even more in the upcoming years), why wouldn't this possible by 2020 or 2021 if you follow Moore's law and the fast exponential jump in hardware advancment which is even faster than the increase a decade ago and 15 years ago?
At the time fo the release of PS2, who would have expected a console to include 512 MB of memory (x 16 increase). At the time of the release of the PS3 whou would have expected a console to include 8 GB of memory?

 

[Nirolak]

Wait, according to "experts" in all the other threads, there's almost no work involved. All the work is already done and they just need to toggle a few values in a config file. Sony shouldn't have to wait since everything is already done and so easy to just add to existing PS4 games. Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

To be fair, while there is very obviously work involved and people saying that were insane, being ready to be show games within 4-5 months of receiving development kits would suggest that it isn't nearly as hard as moving over from PS3 to PS4.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Are we still expecting Neo this year, Or did House's comments change things?

 

[geordiemp]

I'd rather spend $599 and get a better CPU than $499 for a overclocked Jaguar.

I could be wrong but isn't the CPU the main driver for fps? The whole point of NEO is everything in 60fps (for me atleast)

$ 499 for Jaguar is dead to me. Sony should wait instead of releasing a paper weight.

 

[Chezzymann]

I think the latter is what Sony will do and what makes the most sense. Youll see more powerful hardware every 2 or 3 years and the next numbered system every 5 or 6 years.

Yeah, as someone who got a PS4 for Christmas I'm hoping that, after the Neo is presumably released next year, I'll have until 2019 to enjoy all the latest console games without missing anything. Im not worried about the PS4.5, I'm worried about when the next one will come after that. Cause that will probably be the end of the PS4's run and a 'gen 9' consoles. 2 years after the PS4.5 would be fine, as I'd get four solid years out of my PS4.

 

[DragonKnight]

Yeah, I feel like if Microsoft is trying to start fresh (i.e. not keeping Scorpio as an upgrade to Xbox One, but instead making it a brand new generation for them) things are going to start getting weird.

I hope Scorpio will be enough new and different to justify this so soon.

Microsofts approach seems way too iconoclast and I dont see how they dont piss off third parties. And all that power would be for naught as devs would chiefly focuz on the ps family power envelope which will have an install base of tens of millions strong and the xbone 2 install base would be at zero. Not to mention the entry price of even owning one. If this is truly Microsofts gameplain then it plain just doesnt make sense.

 

[El_Chino]

Each new gen for PlayStation had a x16 increase in system memory.

- PS1: 2 MB
- PS2: 32 MB
- PS3 : 512 MB
- PS4 : 8 GB

By 2017, Sony won't be able to reach that goal for PS5. That is why the high-end PS4 Neo will be there to fill the gap of the hardware and graphics advances until we reach the exponential jump in memory and components and techs by 2020 to allow such trend of increase.

I highly doubt the next-Xbox/PS5 well have 16x the ram as their previous generations.

I think 8x will be a lot more likely.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Wait, according to "experts" in all the other threads, there's almost no work involved. All the work is already done and they just need to toggle a few values in a config file. Sony shouldn't have to wait since everything is already done and so easy to just add to existing PS4 games. Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

You're still beating this drum? Does it even matter now that we know it is real?

$ 499 for Jaguar is dead to me. Sony should wait instead of releasing a paper weight.

We are going with the assumption that this increased minimum price point means no Jaguar CPU. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[Obscuritas]

Let's be realistic, 499$/€ would be a death sentence. I get the "premium" argument, but that price is still too high in the console market.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

I highly doubt the next-Xbox/PS5 well have 16x the ram as their previous generations.

I think 8x will be a lot more likely.

Read my post in this page.

 

[thuway]

have a suspicion that $499 machine is actually a Zen Lite CPU with 5-6 TF of performance.

A $399 Neo would be one with Jaguar and a 36 CU configuration because that makes sense, but $499 for Jaguar and a cheaper GPU to produce? Sony can't be that dumb.

 

[mrklaw]

Wait, according to "experts" in all the other threads, there's almost no work involved. All the work is already done and they just need to toggle a few values in a config file. Sony shouldn't have to wait since everything is already done and so easy to just add to existing PS4 games. Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

Well for first party games that aren't released on PC, there won't be those higher settings..

If Sony is foolish enough to release a $499 machine with Jaguar and 4.2 TF- you can consider the Neo dead in the water. I have a suspicion that $499 machine is actually a
Zen Lite CPU with 5-6 TF of performance.

A $399 Neo would be one with Jaguar and a 36 CU configuration because that makes sense, but $499? Sony can't be that dumb.

I'd take that. Assuming the PS4 is then $299 to provide a mainstream box, and Sony aim to get the 4K down to $399 within 12 months or so.

If they do a 36CU + Jaguar,money risk not only being left behind with Scorpio, but also by PC GPUs pretty quickly as 14/16nm matures. Pushing hard now to get around 5-6TF and Zen will really provide a much better baseline for the inevitable PS5K. I don't know how well a jag+36CU PS4K would last for another 3 years when the GPU tech will evolve fairly rapidly

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait, according to "experts" in all the other threads, there's almost no work involved. All the work is already done and they just need to toggle a few values in a config file. Sony shouldn't have to wait since everything is already done and so easy to just add to existing PS4 games. Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

The answer is easy: Sony is lying. About what? It does not matter, they are lying about that too .

 

[MilkBeard]

Well, they did do this once before. The original Xbox was only on the market four years before the Xbox 360, and they did that move to help upset the generation to a more favorable scenario (and it worked!)

Mind, I think Sony is in a much better state in terms of being able to manage a console platform in 2016 than they were in 2006.

Yeah, that's true. I was just thinking that the multiplatform gaming will become awkward, as there will be less parity between the two systems. I guess that problem will be mitigated by having an upgraded PS4 option.

Honestly, I hope that Microsoft will adopt the mandatory compatibility, at least for the first year or two, because I think that's a good model to start a new generation. You have your new system that is capable of playing all the current titles, except at a higher quality (all titles past and present of the last gen system).

 

[geordiemp]

The $399 model had the upclocked Jag. Now that model doesn't exist anymore.

$499 Zen 5-6TF, same as Scorpio
$599 Zen 8TF

Throws money at screen

 

[El_Chino]

Read my post in this page.

I did and my point still stands. 128GB of ram seems HIGHLY excessive.

Especially with the high bandwidth of HBM2, my money is around 32GB to 64GB of ram depending on the configuration.

 

[thuway]

Let's be realistic, 499$/€ would be a death sentence. I get the "premium" argument, but that price is still too high in the console market.

The price tag is defendable if Neo is using a new CPU and has performance similar to Scorpio. However, consumers aren't stupid. If they charge $499 and shove a Jaguar with a 4.2 TF GPU- consider it a really stupid move.

 

[DragonKnight]

Let's be realistic, 499$/€ would be a death sentence. I get the "premium" argument, but that price is still too high in the console market.

Not for entusiasts. The two are meant to co-exist together. Sony does not expects this model to sell anywhere close to the base model. Of this I am certain.

Maybe a ratio of 1 to 10 or something like that.

 

[RoboPlato]

Yeah, it's fine to offer something expensive if it is an option. People who want it will go for it, while everyone else will be fine with the standard PS4.

I'm also thinking that this will have higher margins on it than the standard PS4, which will also allow them to drop the price on that as low as it can be.

 

[LAA]

I really hope that smartphone quote doesn't mean they want to make a new PS4 every 1/2 years, because I can really see consoles flopping and people moving to PC eventually. Will be very interesting this gen, it does seem Xbox are looking to "restart" the gen almost, or rather start a new gen, and they probably could with NX coming too, it would look like it was a new gen, and not just Xbox making a new console because.
At the same time though, I can see people kicking off with the short gen time for the X1 if scorpio is intended to replace and outdate the X1, surprised more don't for the Wii U honestly, but I suppose that's to do with "not many" people owning a Wii U in the first place.

If they do just want to make a "Premium" and a "Regular" PS4, I think that model could work actually and I like they're having it so there is no exclusive Neo games.
I only hope next gen they could release both from the start, though not sure how hard it would be to "predict" what specs would be needed to run the same games at higher framerates/resolutions/extra graphical features,etc., that and I suppose whether the actual tech exists in a small enough form for a console, maybe it wouldn't be possible to launch two such systems at once, just a shame for enthusiasts they're be buying both.

 

[HocusPocus]

I believe they got a little nervous of the leaked Xbox specs. Sony always like to one up Microsoft in everything. One of the reasons they always let Microsoft go first at E3 for the press conferences. Maybe / maybe not but if the leaks were true in anyway of a 2016 launch then something has changed internally. They would have to show it at E3.

 

[MilkBeard]

The price tag is defendable if Neo is using a new CPU and has performance similar to Scorpio. However, consumers aren't stupid. If they charge $499 and shove a Jaguar with a 4.2 TF GPU- consider it a really stupid move.

Yeah, if they are going to charge $500, it better be a good bump in performance. An upclocked weak CPU is still a weak CPU, especially so when the GPU is getting a fairly good sized boost.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I mean I think either option is fine overall. It's just I feel things have arrived where they are today because of the interests each went into this with.

If Sony doesn't feel comfortable with a more powerful Xbox even for a short term period, then yeah, I could see them waiting until 2017 and effectively releasing a new generation console with a mandatory cross generation requirement.

I honestly do feel 80%+ of the PS4's success stemmed from them have a $400 box that ran third party games objectively better than Microsoft's $500 box as opposed to their first party software/marketing/OS/policies/etc, so I could imagine a scenario where they really felt the need to guard that hardware scenario, or at least maintain relative parity.

Maybe if you are talking about the UK or USA market it's 80%.
Also not being a year plus late was also a big factor .

 

[DragonKnight]

I really hope that smartphone quote doesn't mean they want to make a new PS4 every 1/2 years, because I can really see consoles flopping and people moving to PC eventually. Will be very interesting this gen, it does seem Xbox are looking to "restart" the gen almost, or rather start a new gen, and they probably could with NX coming too, it would look like it was a new gen, and not just Xbox making a new console because.
At the same time though, I can see people kicking off with the short gen time for the X1 if scorpio is intended to replace and outdate the X1, surprised more don't for the Wii U honestly, but I suppose that's to do with "not many" people owning a Wii U in the first place.

If they do just want to make a "Premium" and a "Regular" PS4, I think that model could work actually and I like they're having it so there is no exclusive Neo games.
I only hope next gen they could release both from the start, though not sure how hard it would be to "predict" what specs would be needed to run the same games at higher framerates/resolutions/extra graphical features,etc., that and I suppose whether the actual tech exists in a small enough form for a console, maybe it wouldn't be possible to launch two such systems at once, just a shame for enthusiasts they're be buying both.

People will mass exodus to PC where bigger and better gpus and cpus and ram packets come out every year? The price of which to upgrade all three is at least equivalent to purchasing a new console?

 

[thuway]

I believe they got a little nervous of the leaked Xbox specs. Sony always like to one up Microsoft in everything. One of the reasons they always let Microsoft go first at E3 for the press conferences. Maybe / maybe not but if the leaks were true in anyway of a 2016 launch then something has changed internally. They would have to show it at E3.

BELIEVE in Plan B!

 

[Trago]

Yep, shorter cycles will be a thing now.

This is great because it will force Sony focus on building up the foundation that is the PS4 ecosystem. It will simply become the 'PlayStation' ecosystem and there will be less reason for a traditional console generation.

The store, UI, system stability, digital preservation of titles, etc all need work. There's literally no sense pulling what they pulled going from PS3 to PS4 anymore, especially since they will no doubt be sticking with x86.

We're finally getting a foundation to be proud of people.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Gamasutra had a bit more from the article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...tion_Neo_rumors_but_console_wont_be_at_E3.php

Iterative consoles boys and girls. It's the future and the future is now

 

[mrklaw]

If Sony are considering a bigger spec more like Scorpio, it then puts pressure on having games be compatible on PS4 as well due to the much larger gap in performance. More GPU is good for graphics options, but putting a Zen in there is only really useful to do *more* which could affect how well a game works on PS4

 

[DragonKnight]

BELIEVE in Plan B!

It'd be nteresting to hear your opinion on this theory

 

[El_Chino]

Iterative consoles boys and girls. It's the future and the future is now

"Some said this day would never come....What are they to say now?"

 

[LoveCake]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

 

[MilkBeard]

BELIEVE in Plan B!

NeoPS4
BELIEVE

 

[DeepEnigma]

Those leaks were before the RX 480 announcement.

After th new GPU reveal, OsisrisBlack said this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205400140&postcount=422

Current PS4 Neo devkits aren't even representative of the final PS4 Neo specs which may be even higher.

It seems the power plans were changed not just after the Scorpio leak but before that.

Thanks for this. I seemed to miss this post during my time out.

BELIEVE in Plan B!

Saves a lot of people money, in more ways than one.

This product is very clearly not for you then. But for those of us who want the latest and greatest we will now have an option.

Yep.

How does it put pressure to be compatible when the vast majority of PS4/XB1 games have to be designed to compatible with PCs light years ahead of them? I could see some design decisions being compromised for PS4 exclusives, but most 3rd parties should already know the drill.

Fact.

 

[DragonKnight]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

This product is very clearly not for you then. But for those of us who want the latest and greatest we will now have an option.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

If Sony are considering a bigger spec more like Scorpio, it then puts pressure on having games be compatible on PS4 as well due to the much larger gap in performance. More GPU is good for graphics options, but putting a Zen in there is only really useful to do *more* which could affect how well a game works on PS4

How does it put pressure to be compatible when the vast majority of PS4/XB1 games have to be designed to compatible with PCs light years ahead of them? I could see some design decisions being compromised for PS4 exclusives, but most 3rd parties should already know the drill.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

I think Sony is perfectly happy with that. They dont really care if you have a PS4 or a neo, as long as you have one and are buying games for it.

There are people like me though who would be willing to upgrade if it means better IQ, better draw distance, improved frame rate, etc.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The price tag is defendable if Neo is using a new CPU and has performance similar to Scorpio. However, consumers aren't stupid. If they charge $499 and shove a Jaguar with a 4.2 TF GPU- consider it a really stupid move.

I keep asking for it to be explained in a way it makes sense...

How is it that Sony have had AMD create the Jaguar/36CU APU for the dev kits and leaked dev docs that go into great spec detail if all along they had AMD also doing a Zen based APU?

I mean the costs and hassle sound ridiculous to me and make the PS3 design seem conservative!

 

[fritolay]

Has AMD said anything about Zen & APU and contracts/sales regarding consoles?

 

[Trago]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

Wait for the upgraded console after neo, simple.

 

[Panajev2001a]

8F? I'll drop 600 if that's the case no questions asked.

No matter what the console had inside a $599 console would be met by second job/arrogant Sony blog articles and posts on forums.

 

[GamerJM]

I just noticed the Smartphone reference in the OP. If consoles are officially adapting to a smart phone-esque update system then I'm going to buy multiplats on PC, when I buy multiplats. I might start to focus on legacy consoles more now, in the next few years. I'd rather collect PS2 and Super Famicom games than keep up with modern consoles anyways. Though I think I'll focus on my backlog before I do that. I'll still buy modern Playstation and Xbox consoles when they have enough exclusives to warrant doing so but they will not be my focus.

 

[Bsigg12]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

That's what it sounds like. Generations won't really be a thing in the traditional sense but there will be hardware cutoffs after so many years of support for a piece of hardware.

 

[Gurish]

I don't understand the update, he said that people are more open to upgrades, giving the mobile market as an example, but it doesn't mean we're gonna have a frequent refresh like in the mobile market right?

Most probably it's only a mid fen refresh and the next console after will be the PS5 in a couple of years, or did I get it wrong?

 

[MilkBeard]

Honestly, I'm hoping that this new upgrade cycle will do away with locking older games to outdated, clunky, hard to find gaming systems.

All new models supporting all games that have been released for base PS4 moving forward. This is my biggest hope. To basically create a Steam-like store so all games can be accessed, provided you have the latest system if you want to play the most current games.

No more Panzer Dragoon Saga types getting lost in the history of gaming.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I still do not see the point of this, if they are going to continue to do this forwards then the PS5 is going to have to be backwards compatible with the PS4 Neo games, both PS4 and PS4 Neo are going to be sold next to each other until the PS5 is released so I'm not going to waste money on a PS4 Neo, that money can be better spent on games.

I feel like I have replied to a dozen comments like this so this will be my last one. If you don't think the upgrade is worth then it is not a product aimed at you...and that is fine. It's not designed to be must have replacement for the base PS4.

 

[RoboPlato]

I keep asking for it to be explained in a way it makes sense...

How is it that Sony have had AMD create the Jaguar/36CU APU for the dev kits and leaked dev docs that go into great spec detail if all along they had AMD also doing a Zen based APU?

I mean the costs and hassle sound ridiculous to me and make the PS3 design seem conservative!

Documentation is for the current early dev kits, which were built on hardware that existed at the time they were putting it together. It's standard for the first dev kits to have different silicon.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

That's what it sounds like. Generations won't really be a thing in the traditional sense but there will be hardware cutoffs after so many years of support for a piece of hardware.

Yep after a while you will be force to update because of power , OS , games etc etc .
So it will become just like every other consumer electronics .