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[Darksol]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176535908#post176535908

Then quote it.

 

[Hands of Stone]

haha python was right

Who?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Feel bad for coming here...but is it confirmed that Solid isn't in the game?

 

[mgs2master2]

If the spoiler is legit, then Big Boss's line in MGS4 won't make any sense: "You erased me two times before. Today... Will mark the third."

It does. Snake never knew venom was a body double. No one really knew outside of kaz, ocelot, BB, and zero.

 

[KOMANI]

Who?

Not yongyea

 

[TwoDurans]

It does. Snake never knew venom was a body double. No one really knew outside of kaz, ocelot, BB, and zero.

I still don't quite get why Big Boss would need Snake to kill Phantom.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Not yongyea

I don't understand.

Is Quiet sent by Skullface to kill BB?

 

[Raxious]

One thing that bugs me though, how come Ishmael / Big Boss doesn't use any kind of CQC when Quiet attacks in the hospital?

 

[KOMANI]

I don't understand.

Is Quiet sent by Skullface to kill BB?

Quiet is sent by cipher to shape Venom into Boss by attacking him.

 

[tsunam1]

Goddamn it must not watch the stream, must not watch the stream. Somebody stop me, I'm about to go storm Amazon's warehouse.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I don't understand.

Is Quiet sent by Skullface to kill BB?

By Zero to ready Venom Snake. Apparently. She never meant to kill him. She could've easily shot him or use a wire.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Quiet is sent by cipher to shape Venom into Boss by attacking him.

Does Zero also send Mantis? or is that SF's doing?

By Zero to ready Venom Snake. Apparently. She never meant to kill him. She could've easily shot him or use a wire.

Does she know this? Setting her on fire to tumble out of 2nd story window seems extreme if so.

 

[NoFoX]

PM me too please!

PLEASE GIVE ME!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176535908#post176535908

Then quote it.

For real dude?
... and i'm still waiting

Spoiler

ON THE EDGE

BTW, aren't you watching the stream? If so, why don't you PM us? :/

 

[SkylineRKR]

I still don't quite get why Big Boss would need Snake to kill Phantom.

Maybe he just couldn't do it himself? It was his comrade. Seeing 2 BB's on the scene wasn't a good idea either.

 

[KOMANI]

Does Zero also send Mantis? or is that SF's doing?

Mantis/volgin on team Cipher
Xof soldiers on team SKull Face

 

[Karspankey]

One thing that bugs me though, how come Ishmael / Big Boss doesn't use any kind of CQC when Quiet attacks in the hospital?

Because that would give his identity away.

 

[ponpo]

Someone tell the dude streaming, when the prologue is over and he gets control of Boss, turn around and head towards Ocelot on the horse. I want to see what he says but no one ever does this ;_;

 

[SkylineRKR]

Does Zero also send Mantis? or is that SF's doing?



Does she know this? Setting her on fire to tumble out of 2nd story window seems extreme if so.

I'm sure Mantis is on Zero's side. He could've easily murdered them as well, but he saves them multiple times. He creates their getaway. Thats what I believe.

Quiet might have not anticipated that move. BB doesn't know about the raid afaik.

 

[Gbraga]

Did they really have to use Sutherland's voice for Ishmael?

 

[Springfoot]

Who agrees to this list? :3

Well shit, as much as I enjoy playing the games and was familiar with Kojima, I had no idea about Fukushima's involvement and departure. This actually explains quite a bit.

EDIT: Was going backwards through the thread and noticed this.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Mantis/volgin on team Cipher
Xof soldiers on team SKull Face

I'm sure Mantis is on Zero's side. He could've easily murdered them as well, but he saves them multiple times. He creates their getaway. Thats what I believe.

Quiet might have not anticipated that move. BB doesn't know about the raid afaik.

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[nitrowolf2]

I'll be streaming soon. https://instagram.com/p/60jZibzXOu/

pm link?

 

[The Silver]

Yes, and where does the need to clone Big Boss, the ultimate super soldier play into things? While this idea is neat, it seems to be in direct contradiction for any need to create genetic clones, because anyone can be a supersoldier. There was literally no need to create Snake, Solidus, or Liquid when any nobody soldier could have done the job just as well.



That's the thing - this is a prequel set, what, roughly three decades before those events? If Medic bro was able to absorb all the supersoldier qualities of Big Boss through some training, then why, decades later, was everyone still so focused on clones and genetics? The entire "he was a body double duplicate but with completely different, unrelated genetics but still able to become The Legendary Supersoldier" angle of the MGS5 spoilers basically invalidates a good chunk of MGS1 and the future timeline it created.

the clones have already been born before MGSV, they were the first, before any Venom stuff. And they weren't created necessarily for the purpose of having more BB level soldiers, rather they were insurance. What Cipher wanted with the clones was Big Boss's image, his legend, more so than his skills.

Venom Snake is a good start but he's flawed, he only works because of the false memoried implanted into him. You can't have an army of people thinking they're some other super soldier, it's not feasible for a mass scale. A soldier like Venom is a ticking time bomb.

Genome soldiers was the first attempt at a mass scale ultimate soldier, and there really were benefits from the gene therapy(the soldier genes wasn't fake bullshit), they too however turned out flawed and were dying out.

Really it was just one of the 1st(Remember the A,Is had nothing to do with the clones.) in the line of Patriots experiments to see what makes a human turn out how they do and how to control them. Solid beating Big Boss and Liquid probably proved to them once and for all that while genes can help they arent the end all be all.

The next experiment was the S3 plan in MGS2, big success with Raiden, through the use of memes they turned him into a BB level soldier, they can take those results and scale them up to things beyond soldiers.

Lastly they went for direct control in MGS4 with SOP, what would they do next? who knows they're gone now.

 

[Klyka]

So who exactly is attacking the hospital and why?

 

[Boke1879]

the clones have already been born before MGSV, they were the first, before any Venom stuff. And they weren't created necessarily for the purpose of having more BB level soldiers, rather they were insurance. What Cipher wanted with the clones was Big Boss's image, his legend, more so than his skills.

Venom Snake is a good start but he's flawed, he only works because of the false memoried implanted into him, you can't have an army of people thinking they're some other super soldier, it's not feasible for a mass scale, a soldier like Venom is a ticking time bomb.

Genome soldiers was the first attempt at a mass scale ultimate soldier, and there really were benefits from the gene therapy(the soldier genes wasn't fake bullshit), they too however turned out flawed and were dying out.

Really it was just one of the 1st(Remember the A,Is had nothing to do with the clones.) in the line of Patriots experiments to see what makes a human turn out how they do and how to control them. Solid beating Big Boss and Liquid probably proved to them once and for all that while genes can help they arent the end all be all.

The next experiment was the S3 plan in MGS2, big success with Raiden, through the use of memes they turned him into a BB level soldier, they can take those results and scale them up to things beyond soldiers.

Lastly they went for direct control in MGS4 with SOP, what would they do next? who knows they're gone now.

Thank you for saying what I was going to say but in better words lol

 

[mgs2master2]

I still don't quite get why Big Boss would need Snake to kill Phantom.

Million dollar question. My guess is BB established Outer heaven as a world nuclear power or a threat to the world somehow. However the U.S. Does not know BB established it. They entrust the mission to BB and his newly formed foxhound. BB then sends his new rookie, who happens to be his son Solid Snake to kill the head of outer heaven. That happens to be "big boss" (venom). Meanwhile venom is loyal to boss until the end. He was told be BB and maintain the base.

As a result basically BB sacrificed venom to SS to save himself.

Once again this is my guess.

 

[KingV]

It would be a shame though cause Konami is about to hire him back under his conditions following TPP sales success.

Kojima could get the gold treatment by nearly any publisher. Only a masochist would go back to Konami after the way they treated him.

 

[Carn82]

Yet again another Reddit post makes a good case for the twist:

"Big Boss himself was a "nobody" soldier -- albeit a very well-trained nobody -- until Operation Snake Eater. Solid Snake was a "nobody" soldier until the Shadow Moses incident (remember, the Outer Heaven uprising was swept under the rug, and Snake disappeared after the Zanzibar Land incident). Even Raiden was a "nobody" soldier until the World Marshal incident.

And, speaking of Raiden, the entire point of the Patriots' plan -- well, one part of it -- was to prove anyone could become a soldier on par with Big Boss or Solid Snake under the right circumstances...and, the bigger part of the Patriots' plan, with the right information control. Going right back to what BB said at the ending of MGS4, it's one big cycle of propaganda, information control, and repeating scenarios to create one hero after another to eliminate their competition and/or threats as they are used, discarded, and demonized by those in power.

The entire game series is a nobody inhabiting (or, perhaps more appropriately, inheriting) the role of a legendary soldier. Big Boss inhabits/inherits the role of The Boss, after her legacy is defamed. Solid Snake inhabits/inherits the role of Big Boss, after Big Boss' legacy is defamed. Raiden inhabits/inherits the role of Solid Snake, after Solid's legacy is defamed.

Big Boss, basically, effects (if the leak is true) a prototype of the S3 program."

Looking at it from this angle I kinda like it now.

well put.

Yes, and where does the need to clone Big Boss, the ultimate super soldier play into things? While this idea is neat, it seems to be in direct contradiction for any need to create genetic clones, because anyone can be a supersoldier. There was literally no need to create Snake, Solidus, or Liquid when any nobody soldier could have done the job just as well.

You can only 'use' a supersoldier to your advantage if you can control him/her. MGS has also been about these products, certain highly skilled influential people (resulting of a idealogical system) becoming individuals with a new point of view (that suits the story you want to tell ;P).

 

[Rynam]

pm link?

Just click on Quote on this post http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176535908&postcount=4019

The url is between the tags.

 

[cackhyena]

Kojima could get the gold treatment by nearly any publisher.

Yeah, I don't think that's true.

 

[DevilFox]

Thanks for the stream, sti4thewin0. Can't wait to play the game myself, but meanwhile..

Huh, your explanation does make it a little saner in that regard, in the context of MG's story. Kind of like it now, and yeah, that always bothered me too.

The actual story is different and it made sense

Can you explain to me the repercussions of Fukushima leaving, and who is he?

this

I will always believe it has more to do with Tomokazu Fukushima leaving the team than anything else. He was writer from MGS to MGS3 together with Kojima: once he left, the saga lost a lot of its charm and its "anti-americanism" theme (let's call it that way).. but maybe it's just a coincidence (some do not think so).
Until proved wrong, I'll believe that what made MGS2 so great comes from Fukushima's mind way more than Kojima's. He probably wanted to end it there and when Kojima had to make MGS4, well he was in shit and everything was nanomachined.

The entire game series is a nobody inhabiting (or, perhaps more appropriately, inheriting) the role of a legendary soldier. Big Boss inhabits/inherits the role of The Boss, after her legacy is defamed. Solid Snake inhabits/inherits the role of Big Boss, after Big Boss' legacy is defamed. Raiden inhabits/inherits the role of Solid Snake, after Solid's legacy is defamed.

Big Boss, basically, effects (if the leak is true) a prototype of the S3 program.[/I]"

Looking at it from this angle I kinda like it now.

No, it's horrible. Big Boss was trained by The Boss, the mother of special forces, for years and he had years of experience on the battlefield as well, basically the entire life. He was far from being a no one, he was a Naked Snake forced to face a Cobra, defeating Pain, Fury, Death (The End), Fear and Joy but living with Sorrow forever, making him what was later known as the great Big Boss. Solid Snake is a clone with selected genes to be a great soldier from birth. The only one messing with things is Raiden (always him, how I hate this guy) but there was a purpose back in MGS2 when he was introduced. Then MGS4 and Rising happened, unfortunately.
The Snakes are superior soldiers like.. silly comparison but it's like being a Saiyan. Or should I say, The Boss and Big Boss are, since the others are clones. This is part of the reason why characters like Gray Fox or Ocelot are so great, they're the humans that can (almost) match the legends. Now, to say that everyone can become "a Snake" is just crazy and ugly.
edit: and indeed, Raiden inherits nothing. Side to side with Solid he's still a pussy even he's a machine for most of his body.

 

[KJRS_1993]

Kojima could get the gold treatment by nearly any publisher. Only a masochist would go back to Konami after the way they treated him.

With the huge delays, as well as (reported) wastefulness with large sums of cash, this might not be as true as you'd wish.

 

[Boke1879]

The actual story is different and it made sense



this





No, it's horrible. Big Boss was trained by The Boss, the mother of special forces, for years and he had years of experience on the battlefield as well, basically the entire life. He was far from being a no one. Solid Snake is a clone with selected genes to be a great soldier from birth. The only one messing with things is Raiden (always him, how I hate this guy) but there was a purpose back in MGS2 when he was introduced. Then MGS4 and Rising happened, unfortunately.
The Snakes are superior soldiers like.. silly comparison but it's like being a Saiyan. Or should I say, The Boss and Big Boss are, since the others are clones. This is part of the reason why characters like Gray Fox or Ocelot are so great, they're the humans that can (almost) match the legends. Now, to say that everyone can become "a Snake" is just crazy and ugly.

Ahh I see where your issue is. It's ultimately MGS2 and Raiden and how ultimately anyone can be trained to legendary status.

I understand your issue

 

[Ralemont]

No, it's horrible. Big Boss was trained by The Boss, the mother of special forces, for years and he had years of experience on the battlefield as well, basically the entire life. He was far from being a no one. Solid Snake is a clone with selected genes to be a great soldier from birth. The only one messing with things is Raiden (always him, how I hate this guy) but there was a purpose back in MGS2 when he was introduced. Then MGS4 and Rising happened, unfortunately.
The Snakes are superior soldiers like.. silly comparison but it's like being a Saiyan. Or should I say, The Boss and Big Boss are, since the others are clones. This is part of the reason why characters like Gray Fox or Ocelot are so great, they're the humans that can (almost) match the legends. Now, to say that everyone can become "a Snake" is just crazy and ugly.
edit: and indeed, Raiden inherits nothing. Side to side with Solid he's still a pussy even he's a machine for most of his body.

Solid Snake got all the "inferior" genes, though. Liquid was the one created for greatness, and Solid owned him. The jig has been up on the whole "genes are the key!" since the game they were introduced.

Solid was trained by BB, though, so there's that.

 

[Deadly]

I know it says Ishmael/BB was looking out for Ahab during his 9 years of coma but why is he in bandages too?

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Ahh I see where your issue is. It's ultimately MGS2 and Raiden and how ultimately anyone can be trained to legendary status.

I understand your issue

Solidus Snake was essentially Big Boss genetic equal, so Raiden effectively beat Big Boss in a way too if you think about it. Big Boss in a super soldier suit with two samurai swords and Doc Ock tentacles...

 

[vano89]

I have a question: if the doctors made the medic/Phantom look like BB why in the prologue they want to change his appearance? Isn't it a bit strange?

 

[SolidSnake305]

I've been playing for 2 hours holy shit the game is beautiful.

 

[Peff]

Solid Snake got all the "inferior" genes, though. Liquid was the one created for greatness, and Solid owned him. The jig has been up on the whole "genes are the key!" since the game they were introduced.

Solid was trained by BB, though, so there's that.

Let's just file that one under "Liquid wasn't too hot on his Biology classes".

 

[SkylineRKR]

I know it says Ishmael/BB was looking out for Ahab during his 9 years of coma but why is he in bandages too?

To hide his face?

 

[SkylineRKR]

I have a question: if the doctors made the medic/Phantom look like BB why in the prologue they want to change his appearance? Isn't it a bit strange?

The medic was officially faceless in GZ. I think you create him right there, and the doctors reshape you into BB.

 

[Sylas]

I've been playing for 2 hours holy shit the game is beautiful.

Whereabouts are you? Been thinking of scouring NYC to find a copy early, but most people are saying Saturday at the earliest.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Who's doing the OT for MGSV anyway?

 

[Deadly]

To hide his face?

My bad I forgot he can't let him know.

 

[SolidSnake305]

Whereabouts are you? Been thinking of scouring NYC to find a copy early, but most people are saying Saturday at the earliest.

South Florida.

 

[vano89]

The medic was officially faceless in GZ. I think you create him right there, and the doctors reshape you into BB.

It was my first thought too, but then seeing the stream he already has BB face before the char creation...

 

[KOMANI]

Whereabouts are you? Been thinking of scouring NYC to find a copy early, but most people are saying Saturday at the earliest.

You try video games New York in the city? Or BOOM in sunset park, Brooklyn?

 

[Jackpot]

For real dude?
... and i'm still waiting

Spoiler

ON THE EDGE

BTW, aren't you watching the stream? If so, why don't you PM us? :/

quote the damn post to see the link.

 

[Nintenyearold]

These spoilers have made more interested in picking this up sometime once the price drops.

 

[Sylas]

You try video games New York in the city? Or BOOM in sunset park, Brooklyn?

videogames new york said they aren't sure when they'll get it. Not sure about BOOM. I'm probably just gonna wait until Saturday since 4 different stores have all said that. Unless of course another person on GAF gets it early, lol.