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[Papo Swing]

I see a few comments crucifying Kickstarter gor some reason. I don't get it. Blame the developer not the platform.

I've had a few succesful KS give me a few of the best games I've played. YMMV.

But Start Citizen? That always sounded too good to be true.

 

[Duffman]

Why it's not possible?

Apparently there are 400 employee in the company.

If you assume an average of 60k salary that is 24m/year just from salaries.

Add the other expenses and it can easily reach 150m in a couple of years.

Yeah, 150m in the bank is nothing if you have 400 people working in your company.

Seems like this project just got too big.

 

[Falk]

ModBot specified it was due to the banned source, and said the content could be reposted with a different source.

Just to clarify here, from what I understand the previous thread was more likely to become about Derek than it was the news itself, and looking at the few replies the previous thread had before it got closed, I think that hypothesis is right on the money.

 

[Krisprolls]

Even with this loan, Star Citizen hardly seems like a trainwreck.

Read better, it's not your typical loan, they're mortgaging the company.

Everything now belongs to the bank. Basically it's over as soon as they fail to pay for 60 days.

 

[daviyoung]

The post you linked to is asking why the game isn't out after 2-4 years... I mean, how long do you think a game this ambitious should take?

it's now been 3 - 5 years

 

[Chumley]

The post you linked to is asking why the game isn't out after 2-4 years... I mean, how long do you think a game this ambitious should take?

The Witcher 3 took $81 million and 3 years. Grand Theft Auto V took around 4 1/2 years.

 

[Spukc]

So how are the their forums right now?
Can you buy like a special down the drain skin for 3k?


To support them ?

 

[WaterAstro]

Just look at Chris Roberts's previous game's development to see that it wasn't going to work.

 

[Machina]

I see a few comments crucifying Kickstarter gor some reason. I don't get it. Blame the developer not the platform.

I think you'll find the fates of SC and Kickstarter as a concept are linked at this point, such is the impression the massive scale of the funding SC accumulated has left on people. If SC goes under, kickstarter as a method of funding (especially in video games) goes with it. So of course anyone who has a moral issue with kickstarter as a concept has got something invested in this

 

[NoPiece]

Read better, it's not your typical loan, they're mortgaging the company.

Everything now belongs to the bank. Basically it's over as soon as they fail to pay for 60 days.

But Star Citizen is specifically excluded from the loan, according to the doc the OP linked to.

 

[Lothars]

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, the backers who put in $100+ are desperate to justify the money they put into this by any means necessary. They're in so deep that no matter what happens to this game, this is going to be their reaction.

Yeah but the ones yelling like the game is doomed and using Derek smart as a source have failed to prove anything other than they are blinded by delusion.

I haven't seen one post here with valid info that shows there is actually a problem.

 

[Pureauthor]

The post you linked to is asking why the game isn't out after 2-4 years... I mean, how long do you think a game this ambitious should take?

I dunno, how long does Chris Roberts think it should take? Because he's the one who set the initial release date. And all the subsequent ones for stuff like SQ42. Which they have not yet met.

 

[Kibe]

Read better, it's not your typical loan, they're mortgaging the company.

Everything now belongs to the bank. Basically it's over as soon as they fail to pay for 60 days.

So people are saying they had to do that because they got no other assets to offer...Seems a bit strange to me.

Anyway, I hope this game actually comes out, it's a bummer if we never get to see it.

 

[Chû Totoro]

For folks saying this was obvious.

Your crystal ball gazing astounds me. In future it would be helpful if you could start a thread before the fact so folks are aware of your pontifications. Thank you for your cooperation.

There.

 

[pelican]

I got a refund last year on my pledge and ships. Only £150 so I wasn't missing it, the principle due to the missed milestones and sketchy eta.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I see a few comments crucifying Kickstarter gor some reason. I don't get it. Blame the developer not the platform.

I've had a few succesful KS give me a few of the best games I've played. YMMV.

But Start Citizen? That always sounded too good to be true.

Some people have no idea how let alone kickstarter works nor any interest to learn, and SOLELY focus on the stories of kickstarter projects that fell through while simultaneously ignoring the metric shit ton of successful projects in and outside of the gaming sphere. And because of this, want the entire platform to fail. I mean, genuinely someone a couple pages ago saying that this would be the thing that would sink kickstarter like what?? I'm not even sure people realize that it's not solely focused on gaming...

 

[Krisprolls]

So how are the their forums right now?
Can you buy like a special down the drain skin for 3k?


To support them ?

Yeah I hope they'll sell special bankrupcy celebration virtual goodies (limited edition).

 

[Chumley]

Yeah but the ones yelling like the game is doomed and using Derek smart as a source have failed to prove anything other than they are blinded by delusion.

I haven't seen one post here with valid info that shows there is actually a problem.

Uh, the feature creep and constant delays are problems. Their roadmap has gotten longer and longer every year. What's the estimated date now? 2020? 2025?

 

[Chuck Norris]

Kick started in 2012 and 5 years later there is no release date in near site?

 

[texhnolyze]

I don't know who to believe...

Yeah..

If the game is coming out later then great, I'll buy it.

But if it's not then oh well, nothing of value is lost.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Amalur was A) not the predominant reason 38 Studios went under(that was Schilling being shit with money and Copernicus) and B) was not originally an MMO, it was another conventional RPG from when THQ still owned Big Huge Games.

You mean Reckoning. "Kingdoms of Amalur" was the name of the franchise that Reckoning and Copernicus would've fallen under.

 

[Eolz]

Yeah I hope they'll sell special bankrupcy celebration virtual goodies (limited edition).

I wonder what you think about Shenmue 3 naysayers. Because both projects work the same way.

Uh, the feature creep and constant delays are problems. Their roadmap has gotten longer and longer every year. What's the estimated date now? 2020? 2025?

3.0 ETA is next month and S42 is this year.

 

[Papo Swing]

I think you'll find the fates of SC and Kickstarter as a concept are linked at this point, such is the impression the massive scale of the funding SC accumulated has left on people. If SC goes under, kickstarter as a method of funding (especially in video games) goes with it. So of course anyone who has a moral issue with kickstarter as a concept has got something invested in this

Really? I've gotten more than 5 succesful kickstarters and I've seen a lot of them go put succesfully. One over ambitious game that got a lot of its funding outside of KS should nit doom the platform that is just stupid.

I got SC, not from KS. Wouldn't anyone just contribute there on the 1st month of these 4 years? Why so much blame on KS.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

It just HAS to fail tho. Don't you get it, over the course of development the project changed scope and assets and went through several different builds. That's literally never happened before in the history of game development.

Spoiler

What annoys me is the accusation that everyone who's not immediately jumping on the doom and gloom train must be a whale who spent a ton of money of the game.

Honestly, the flip side seems the be that anyone who expresses remote twinges of skepticism about this game must be Derek Smart's sock puppet, so why don't we all knock it off before I start handing out bans to everyone involved in this slap fight.

If people can't talk about this game or any news surrounding it without knives drawn, this thread will just get locked. Again.

 

[DealWithIt]

I think you'll find the fates of SC and Kickstarter as a concept are linked at this point, such is the impression the massive scale of the funding SC accumulated has left on people. If SC goes under, kickstarter as a method of funding (especially in video games) goes with it. So of course anyone who has a moral issue with kickstarter as a concept has got something invested in this

This is super dramatic. Two great games that I backed released this year CSH and Hollow Knight. Kickstarter also produced a number of great games, including Valdis Story and Undertale (I think?)

 

[Dmax3901]

The Witcher 3 took $81 million and 3 years. Grand Theft Auto V took around 4 1/2 years.

I must've missed the part in these games were Trevor and/or Geralt built a rocket and blasts off of the planet in real-time.

Look, I'm not saying development trouble is 100% out of the question, but SC is clearly trying to do something no other game has ever done before. It doesn't surprise me that it would, therefore, take way, way longer to come out.

What I don't get is the vindictiveness on display here. Why do you WANT this crazy ambitious game to fail?

 

[RulkezX]

The loan doesn't suggest that the company is broke , it does suggest they don't have enough to complete of their own back though.

Granting the bank a security in the IP and distribution rights also suggests they are going too try and release something commercially soon ( no more money , can't go back to backers asking for more)

People need to ask themselves when the last tome there was so much smoke around around a development and it all turned out to be bullshit ?

Feature creep , start-up hiccups, huge development staff , licensing tech , outsourcing costs , paying actors and hiring mocap studios.... CIG ate essentially running like a AAA publisher in size , structure and game scope. That's sure to have eaten a lot of cash.

Time will tell

 

[Machina]

3.0 ETA is next month and S42 is this year.

Oh don't worry, as soon as S42 is launched, the narrative will go from "this game is never coming out" to "this game is bad and not worth that sort of development cost" in the blink of an eye.

 

[robochimp]

Read better, it's not your typical loan, they're mortgaging the company.

Everything now belongs to the bank. Basically it's over as soon as they fail to pay for 60 days.

How would you describe a typical loan to a private company whose only physical collateral is at most some real estate and some equipment?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Honestly, the flip side seems the be that anyone who expresses remote twinges of skepticism about this game must be Derek Smart's sock puppet, so why don't we all knock it off before I start handing out bans to everyone involved in this slap fight.

If people can't talk about this game or any news surrounding it without knives drawn, this thread will just get locked. Again.

Understandable. Will edit.

The Witcher 3 took $81 million and 3 years. Grand Theft Auto V took around 4 1/2 years.

Game development isn't linear. Even with better workflows games this gen can take longer to make based on their scope. Hell, even smaller scoped games can take incredibly long times to development. Especially when you're not iterating on a previous project and have to massively modify an engine.

 

[Skux]

Uh, the feature creep and constant delays are problems. Their roadmap has gotten longer and longer every year. What's the estimated date now? 2020? 2025?

Yeah this feels like the same reason why lottery winners end up broke. So much money all at once, and no idea what to do with it.

 

[Spukc]

I wonder what you think about Shenmue 3 naysayers. Because both projects work the same way.



3.0 ETA is next month and S42 is this year.

Wow there is so much bull in that statement.

Shenmue is a well known series.

While star citizen is a digital titanic

 

[Shengar]

I wonder what you think about Shenmue 3 naysayers. Because both projects work the same way.

Shenmue doesn't raised 150 millions dollars of extra funds.

 

[Auto_aim1]

This doesn't seem like a big deal for now. It says they took out a loan with all their game related stuff as collateral. They obviously don't have other things that they can use. Of course the bank has strict terms, so no need to panic. It feels like as the money kept coming in they tried to increase the scope of the project massively and now they need more for closure. No one knows whether the game is actually worth that much because there isn't much legal protection for how the money is used. I mean, I hope it comes out before 2018 because it looks stunning.

 

[Famassu]

SHOCKING news!!!

You mean it turned out to be a scam? No... it cant be can it?

People all around were absolutely certain all this amazing progress and millions of dollars were worth it. I mean their blog was transparent as hell, so what could go wrong... right?

I am sorry but you could see this from a billion miles away. Its just common effing sense... Whether it was the bloated size of the game, the bloated promises, and the insane amount of cash people paid for digital models of ships...

All that because some dude that presumably is equal to videogame God out there just because he created Wing Commander. Sure its a great game but come the fuck on already...

I still think the game will be released eventually but it wont even meet 50% of the false promises and the millions people gave to this dude.

Even weirder is that, by not meeting the initial promises, the game might even turn out a better product now... I am curious if any people realise that if the game delivered on its promise 100% it would be a game so vast and huge that it would become its greatest issue.

But whatever... its Chris Roberts, apparently the DaVinci of videogames...

You do not understand what "scam" means.

 

[Peroroncino]

 

[Card Boy]

I honestly don't know why people kept on pouring money into this. It had the same disaster written all over it like Day Z from the get go. Like what incentive did they ever had to finish the game? Like Day Z they kept on making promises they could never fur-fill OR got too ambitious for their own good instead of focusing and completing the game.

Guys next time give your money to me, i can put it to better use and at least help my friends, family and community instead of putting in the dumpster fire that is Star Citizen.

 

[Machina]

Really? I've gotten more than 5 succesful kickstarters and I've seen a lot of them go put succesfully. One over ambitious game that got a lot of its funding outside of KS should nit doom the platform that is just stupid.

I got SC, not from KS. Wouldn't anyone just contribute there on the 1st month of these 4 years? Why so much blame on KS.

This is super dramatic. Two great games that I backed released this year CSH and Hollow Knight. Kickstarter also produced a number of great games, including Valdis Story and Undertale (I think?)

Just imagine the sort of press that CIG going bankrupt would bring about, not just in the gaming media, which would be dominated by it pretty much, but the mainstream media as well. It would be a massive story that would go on for months. Lawsuits, court cases, government investigations. The list goes on. It's pretty hard to see the very idea of crowdfunding not copping some serious PR damage as a result

 

[Shin]

Developers got paid so they are cool, but backers are left with hot air, that about sums it up?
A flag should have been raised along the many years and constantly wanting more money.
Having a certain vision and/or expanding on it is fine but there's a certain point where you have to draw the line, which still hasn't been drawn so I'm of opinion they got carried away.
This is the result of it...

 

[crazysapertonight]

But Star Citizen is specifically excluded from the loan, according to the doc the OP linked to.

And what does that mean?

 

[Mechazawa]

You mean Reckoning. "Kingdoms of Amalur" was the name of the franchise that Reckoning and Copernicus would've fallen under.

Sure, I just used that as the shorthand since they were both talking about KoA: Reckoning.

 

[jakonovski]

And what does that mean?

I'd like to know as well, because the terms of the loan seem to contradict it. Which of course can't be so we need someone fluent in legalese.

 

[Recall]

So.... Where'd all that crowdfunding money go then?

Fast cars, booze and sex?

 

[Eolz]

Wow there is so much bull in that statement.

Shenmue is a well known series.

While star citizen is a digital titanic

Shenmue doesn't raised 150 millions dollars of extra funds.

Shenmue was an IP that Sega abandoned for various reasons, but mainly sales numbers.
SC is a game following the footsteps of Freelancer and Wing Commander, with the same Director, but with proper technology and fans that didn't have any similar games in years, nor as ambitious.

See the difference?

 

[chromatic9]

Wonder how much going with the Crytek engine has affected development.

 

[WaterAstro]

You do not understand what "scam" means.

Well, Kickstarter kinda allows scams. If the backed project fails to fulfill is promises, which is the completed game in this case, it has to do whatever it can to compensate, but it is not required to, especially after spending the money.

 

[Chumley]

I must've missed the part in these games were Trevor and/or Geralt built a rocket and blasts off of the planet in real-time.

Look, I'm not saying development trouble is 100% out of the question, but SC is clearly trying to do something no other game has ever done before. It doesn't surprise me that it would, therefore, take way, way longer to come out.

What I don't get is the vindictiveness on display here. Why do you WANT this crazy ambitious game to fail?

It's not about wanting it to fail, its about being realistic. The Witcher 3 and GTAV were tough to develop even for absolutely battle tested veteran developers like CDPR and Rockstar. If Star Citizen is supposed to be 3 times the scope of even those mammoth projects, and the developer has never even made a AAA game before...

Like, these people willingly took thousands of dollars from some people for in-game ships. And they couldn't meet their promises, and keep delaying builds of the game. They deserve to be held accountable for fucking up.

 

[DealWithIt]

Just imagine the sort of press that CIG going bankrupt would bring about, not just in the gaming media, which would be dominated by it pretty much, but the mainstream media as well. It would be a massive story that would go on for months. Lawsuits, court cases, government investigations. The list goes on. It's pretty hard to see the very idea of crowdfunding not copping some serious PR damage as a result

Startups fail all the time, even big ones. It won't even make the mainstream news unless there was actual fraud.

 

[takriel]

But where did the 150 million go?

 

[grmlin]

I'm not really into Star Citizen, and I never back projects because of things like this, but man I'm so sad I don't get a new Feelancer or Wing Commander. They should have done an awesome space fight game/sim and we would have been happy, no?