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Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble
- Thread starter RubberJohnny
- Start date
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Shin
Banned
I believe they changed engine early in the development process, at least I remember reading something along those lines on their site.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm annoyed by the clickbait threadtitle by RubberJohnny. You cannot derive from this that SC is "likely in financial trouble". That is hyperbolic, and highly speculative and does not deserve its own thread based on this. By making it its own thread for baseless speculation there is nothing here than just to piss people off.
Could this be a significant deal? Certainly, but it could also be nothing, and either way, there is nothing at this time there is no room for speculation.
Secondly, RubberJohnny has been on an antagonizing anti-Star Citizen spree for the last two years. I think it's hypocritical for him to make this its own thread when he himself has made threads like this My opinion is more important and therefore requires its own thread.
I get that people are allowed to voice their discontent, but I find RubberJohnnys posts to be suspect and like he is trying to maliciously stir up.
I'd just like to clarify that I don't think the potential problems of Star Citizens finances and development should be overstated. But we should not encourage baseless speculation.
It's important to remember that 150 million dollars worth of development, would easily require 2x that amount on marketing and promotion. Secondly, it's not uncommon for for crowdfunding campaigns to eventually seek other investors.
I don't like the idea of posters trying to stir up falsehoods and half-truths using hyperbolic rhetoric. Let us have this thread if it turns out to be real with tangible evidence to support this. There is no way of knowing if there is trouble brewing without looking at the books.
Could this be a significant deal? Certainly, but it could also be nothing, and either way, there is nothing at this time there is no room for speculation.
Secondly, RubberJohnny has been on an antagonizing anti-Star Citizen spree for the last two years. I think it's hypocritical for him to make this its own thread when he himself has made threads like this My opinion is more important and therefore requires its own thread.
I get that people are allowed to voice their discontent, but I find RubberJohnnys posts to be suspect and like he is trying to maliciously stir up.
I'd just like to clarify that I don't think the potential problems of Star Citizens finances and development should be overstated. But we should not encourage baseless speculation.
It's important to remember that 150 million dollars worth of development, would easily require 2x that amount on marketing and promotion. Secondly, it's not uncommon for for crowdfunding campaigns to eventually seek other investors.
I don't like the idea of posters trying to stir up falsehoods and half-truths using hyperbolic rhetoric. Let us have this thread if it turns out to be real with tangible evidence to support this. There is no way of knowing if there is trouble brewing without looking at the books.
150 million dollars in crowdfunding is nothing to scoff at man
- Star Citizen's status is questionable at best
- Star Citizen fanboys are rabidly defensive and will respond the same way whether it's nothing or a precursor to Chapter 11
- Derek Smart is a 1000 times worse and literally the worst developer in all of gaming history. Just him having put this out first is enough to taint it.
Papo Swing
Member
I see the comparisons in dev time to Witcher 2 and GTA 4. I get why they can be unfair comparisons, bit how many ambitious games of this scale has Chris Roberts done before SC?
Because going too ambitious is a problem. Witcher 3 and GTA 4 are sequels of games smaller in scale but still as ambitious as the sequels. What game did Roberts make before SC that would give him that experience?
I still don't get how 1 game that got mpst of its funds outside of KS is going to sink the service even if it fails.
A game Divinity Original Sin alone proves that it works and people will recognize that and not focus on SC I hope.
Because going too ambitious is a problem. Witcher 3 and GTA 4 are sequels of games smaller in scale but still as ambitious as the sequels. What game did Roberts make before SC that would give him that experience?
I still don't get how 1 game that got mpst of its funds outside of KS is going to sink the service even if it fails.
A game Divinity Original Sin alone proves that it works and people will recognize that and not focus on SC I hope.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Nothing surprising about this but still, it's a shame.
Trying to create the ultimate game that is everything to everyone was always a fool's errand. Well, some people are enjoying what's already playable at least.
Trying to create the ultimate game that is everything to everyone was always a fool's errand. Well, some people are enjoying what's already playable at least.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
1/3 to the Caymon Islands
Parties, cars and big mansions?
Dictator93
Member
FreezerGeezer
Member
Wait... Is anyone actually reading this or are they just seeing loan in the same sentence as a game they would like to see fail and foaming at the mouth?
Coutts are very selective about their clientel, I don't see why they would deal with a company that is apparently about to implode. However barely educated on the subject. Still, interesting regardless, will have to see if it develops into anything.
A bit of fun to see the amount of people desperate for any chance to take a dump on the game / company too. some sour people in 'ere. Not overly invested into the game myself but would be something special if even 60% of it saw the light of day. Time will tell.
Coutts are very selective about their clientel, I don't see why they would deal with a company that is apparently about to implode. However barely educated on the subject. Still, interesting regardless, will have to see if it develops into anything.
A bit of fun to see the amount of people desperate for any chance to take a dump on the game / company too. some sour people in 'ere. Not overly invested into the game myself but would be something special if even 60% of it saw the light of day. Time will tell.
burnside13
Member
Even if you don't care for Star Citizen, the failure of this crowd funding method is not good for any players interests. This was meant to be a great advert for AAA games developed for and by players. There's still some hope yet though
Talking of scam is bs since they didn't cash 150mil and went to go to a cruise and lambo shopping.
Scope got too big, to many devs etc. The last thread with the lengthy explanation and interview with roberts showed how big that project got (changing engines, dev studios over the world, assets who got thrown away etc). Doikor said it better:
I hope for them that they can output enough got products but there will always be the "taint" of them throwing away millions out the the window.
Scope got too big, to many devs etc. The last thread with the lengthy explanation and interview with roberts showed how big that project got (changing engines, dev studios over the world, assets who got thrown away etc). Doikor said it better:
I hope for them that they can output enough got products but there will always be the "taint" of them throwing away millions out the the window.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Banks give loans to failing companies all the time as long as they think the assets they'd get upon default are worth more than the loan itself
400 employees. Go with average 60k/y salary. Throw in office, hr, medical, whatever expenses and each employee is going to cost 80k+ per year. Throw in big name actors, mocap, etc and you will be burning through 30+ million a year easy. Them running out of the 150mil now seems about right without a scam.
Yeah, but scam implies intent. Star Citizen might fail but they seem to be actually working on it with a huge team (or even several teams). They didn't just take the money and run. They didn't just create some 3 minute fake gameplay vid to make it seem like they are developing something while taking the money and running. For better or worse, scale & feature creep, possible management issues and all, they have something they are trying to create with the money. Thus it's not a scam. It's not a project that's necessarily the wisest target of buying digital space ships that cost hundreds of real life dollars for, but that doesn't make it a scam.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Maybe the game is done and the money is for marketing
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Chris Roberts has been working in the industry for more than thirty years. And he's most well known for the Wing Commander series. Him and his team aren't newbies working on their first project, they're quite experienced and add people to the team experienced with other tasks.
This.
The game has been sending concerning messages for years but people decide to be blind about it.
It's a No Man's Sky situation 2.0, people will never learn.
Dictator93
Member
Following that line of thought and the general narrative of the thread (Star Citizen unfinished pipedream), what would be those afforementioned assets that this bank could predatorily offer a loan for? Assets, where upon default would be worth more than the original loan itself? Studios properties? Unfinished 3d assets?
I am not seeing the profit in what we have laid out for us in the form of a predatory loan. Rather, I think them seeking profit from the successful release for a verz popular video game seema more likely. But then again, Perhaps I do not have the lobes though.
Fuchalmania
Member
This.
Kuroi Gogeta
Member
Game developers are some of the best scammers in the world fam. I never cease to be amazed when I see GAF posters talking about "double" or "triple dipping" and buying the same game multiple times with minimal improvements. Or people who spend upwards of 100 dollars(canadian dollars) on digital items in online-only console games. I mean it's one thing if they mail you some collectors edition trinkets, but its another thing to spend real money on fictional items. Or how about season passes? you're trusting that a game developer will actually follow through with DLC through the "season", and if they don't?
People have built careers and made millions of dollars by simply trying to get people to trust them. I think if we keep getting more stories like this, mighty no.9, that Parappa the rapper spiritual successor, people will eventually see crowdfunding as a joke and look back at it like "why was this ever a thing? it's unethical to allow people to give you thousands of dollars for a product that doesn't exist"
But Star Citizen is specifically excluded from the loan, according to the doc the OP linked to.
Sounds to me like this loan is only putting up S42 as the collateral, and Star Citizen itself is excluded?
Is it a desperation move to give them enough money to launch S42 and hopefully get enough cash flow to keep SC development going?
Believe.
Krisprolls
Banned
Of course it's a scam since they knew from the start they couldn't fulfill their promises and release the game. Those are lies from the start, they perfectly know it'll end in bankrupcy.
Unless you think what tons of people saw from the outside wasn't all the more obvious from the inside...
Crossing Eden said:
The guy hasn't done anything in the software industry for the last 15 years. The whole fuckload of years in industry is a pure bullshit metric for anything, really (and i am saying this as a guy who worked in the software industry for the last 20 years).
It's sad to see people adopting the NIH syndrome when it comes to SC. The project is a fucking disaster, the scope seems to be blown all the time and they are nowhere near finished while spending +100 million dollars.
Sidewinder
Member
Man, just give me that Squadron 42 space opera, I don't give a shit about that MMO part ;(
No, they really don't.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You realize crowdfunding exists out of the context of video games yes? And that there have been a ton of successfully kickstarted games that came out with no controversies and good reception? More so than failed ones. If anything, if we keep getting more stories like this, more stereotypes about crowdfunding will arise...also why the complaint about season passes? You say that as if developers have a LONG running history of failing to release season pass content instead of the opposite where it's normalized for them to release that content after the initial release date. Hell even facing calling remakes and remasters a scam has no basis in reality when there are so many successful remakes and remasters to the point that people actively ask for them.
Dude that thread is from 10 years ago and goes against people who think like that...
boneyjangles
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227937237&postcount=230
Just a post, not a thread though!Here come the hottakes
WaterAstro
Member
I dunno... with Chris Roberts, he might have intended it to be a scam because he had knowingly blew this game and his previous game out of unobtainable proportion at the pre-production stage.
Its not about wanting them to fail. People should at least be sceptical at this stage surely?
You dont want more people spending thousands of dollars on ships in a game that may never come out or be released unfinished.
I'll be glad to buy the game when it comes out if its good, but we should be realistic about its prospects and not encourage hype before there are reviews.
I'm in the UK and had a business here - loans are absolutely normal for growing a business, but banking the whole company assets on a loan is a very ballsey move. It means, quite literally, the bank owns the game now. It might be a good thing as it could cause them to have shipping deadlines.
By the way, people SHOULD be asking questions rather than blindly throwing thousands of dollars at ships.
By the way, people SHOULD be asking questions rather than blindly throwing thousands of dollars at ships.
I still want it to succeed.
But yes, I started smelling this a while back. I got my refund, I believe, about 2 years ago. I was a very early original backer with that little plastic call-sign credit card thing to prove it!
Not all of us hope for it's failure but it's a little hard to see it be half of what it was supposed to be if it's ever even released. I feel like that's an unfortunate but logical conclusion as things stand currently.
I will buy it if it ends up being a decent game. I'd love to play something like this. It's like a dream game for me in premise. Nothing to do but wait and see. I'm glad I got out but I'll gladly go back in, too.
But yes, I started smelling this a while back. I got my refund, I believe, about 2 years ago. I was a very early original backer with that little plastic call-sign credit card thing to prove it!
Not all of us hope for it's failure but it's a little hard to see it be half of what it was supposed to be if it's ever even released. I feel like that's an unfortunate but logical conclusion as things stand currently.
I will buy it if it ends up being a decent game. I'd love to play something like this. It's like a dream game for me in premise. Nothing to do but wait and see. I'm glad I got out but I'll gladly go back in, too.
TheVoidDragon
Member
It's fine to be skeptical of some aspects of the game and there are legit complaints, but lot of posts here just seem to have absolutely no idea about game development or what they're doing and like they want the game to fail. There are still people complaining about scope increases despite those stopping 2 years ago and most of stretch goals being relatively smaller things like ships. The game taking this long is utterly meaningless when so far it isn't much beyond the usual timeframe for big budget AAA games (or more specifically MMOs), and second it's something far more complex and ambitious than the typical sort of thing, and that they've shown clear evidence of their work with part of it even being playable.
While i don't know much about banks or loans, from what i've read about this it seems like it might not actually mean that much. It's a prestigious bank that wouldn't accept them if they actually were in financial trouble, and companies take loans like this all the time, there are lots of reasons a loan could be needed that aren't indicative of something going wrong.
Neither of those were games trying to push the boundaries of PC graphics or immersion, though.
You can't even compare the two in what they are trying to be beyond they're both Space Games with ships. Elite is being updated but it still isn't anywhere near what Star Citizen has achieved regarding things like first-person out-of-ship gameplay, damage models or multi-crew ships, even in SCs current unfinished state.
While i don't know much about banks or loans, from what i've read about this it seems like it might not actually mean that much. It's a prestigious bank that wouldn't accept them if they actually were in financial trouble, and companies take loans like this all the time, there are lots of reasons a loan could be needed that aren't indicative of something going wrong.
Neither of those were games trying to push the boundaries of PC graphics or immersion, though.
You can't even compare the two in what they are trying to be beyond they're both Space Games with ships. Elite is being updated but it still isn't anywhere near what Star Citizen has achieved regarding things like first-person out-of-ship gameplay, damage models or multi-crew ships, even in SCs current unfinished state.
cartoon_soldier
Member
We don't know all that because we don't know the amount.
More than likely, the company has a good bit of assets - workstations, maybe they bought office space, other inventory, etc. Bank could also believe they can sell the game assets to a publisher for a certain amount.
E.g. A publisher may jump at the chance to buy everything SC is for 20 million pounds to quickly finish and release the game.
Yeah, no one could guess a Kickstarter would fail. Video game Kickstarters have like a 99% success rate and no one here has been burned before, so you must have psychic powers to be skeptical.
Not true. TW3 is still considered by many, including me, to be the best looking open world game of all time.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There's a difference between skepticism about an ambitious project and ignoring all of the updates that they've released, in one instance ITT, literally calling a lengthy update video that showed the features they're working on in depth, and calling the whole project a scam. :/
Oh man, what could've been if they chose another engine, or created a new one.
Imagine SC running on Frostbite...
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