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[SnowTeeth]

What? You pay moneys to get in-game ships and advantages. It's the very definition of P2W.

You can obviously get ships in-game without the need to spend your real money. So someone starts in a different ship than you - so what?

What advantages are you referring to?

What does one win with all these purchased ships and "advantages"?

 

[Dictator93]

You can obviously get ships in-game without the need to spend your real money. So someone starts in a different ship than you - so what?

What advantages are you referring to?

What does one win with all these purchased ships and "advantages"?

Given the PvP slider and the complexity of multicrew ships... I do not see a huge P2W mechanic in the game.

 

[Taruranto]

What are these advatanges? Please name them. And all the ships can be bought in game with the in game currency and your starter ship can take on any other ship. There's no payment option that grants unskilled players an advantage.

Yes, I'm sure the 18,000 dollars ship is going to have the same qualities as the starting one.

Honest.

You can obviously get ships in-game without the need to spend your real money. So someone starts in a different ship than you - so what?

What advantages are you referring to?

What does one win with all these purchased ships and "advantages"?

You doesn't seem to understand how P2W works. You can "always" get stuff in game with in-game currencies or you can spend load of money and get items without lifting a finger. (And of course developers hide these items behind a huge grind because who is going to spend money on an item easy to get)

If you think using IRL money to buy imaginary ships in a space-sim isn't P2W I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Saintruski]

i think this game is never going to get an official release...they bit off more than they could chew and honestly all the modules together for what they are promising are under funded. 125-150 million is more in the needed scope for all these promises. that's not news though, it's already been talked about and speculated on why they delayed the FPS module. if made sense they delayed the FPS it was intended to be a space sim, so delay that indef.

who knows in the end this could turn into kickstarts record class action lawsuit.

 

[Woo-Fu]

stuck in development hell

Actually this is what I would call development heaven. People throwing money at you via kickstarter and no pressure whatsoever to release a product any time soon. Quite literally the development dream job.

 

[tuxfool]

it's already been talked about and speculated on why they delayed the FPS module. if made sense they delayed the FPS it was intended to be a space sim, so delay that indef.

Why is there a need for speculation? They stated clearly why the FPS module was delayed.

 

[Taruranto]

Actually this is what I would call development heaven. People throwing money at you via kickstarter and no pressure whatsoever to release a product any time soon. Quite literally the development dream job.

No, kidding, they even have a kickstarter subscription model!

 

[Saintruski]

Why is there a need for speculation? They stated clearly why the FPS module was delayed.

if I had the time to draw you a flow chart I would...

 

[tuxfool]

No, kidding, they even have a kickstarter subscription model!

AFAIK That doesn't fund the game primarily. That is mostly for the community content like AtV.

 

[tuxfool]

if I had the time to draw you a flow chart I would...

WTF does this mean? There is no way that you can summarize what this vaunted flow chart is supposed to indicate?

 

[Saintruski]

WTF does this mean? There is no way that you can summarize what this vaunted flow chart is supposed to indicate?

do you know what flow charts do?

 

[Dictator93]

AFAIK That doesn't fund the game primarily. That is mostly for the community content like AtV.

They have confirmed subscriber money only goes to community content production and the community team, not development.

 

[Taruranto]

AFAIK That doesn't fund the game primarily. That is mostly for the community content like AtV.

I can't decide whatever that's better or worse tbh. :C

 

[tuxfool]

do you know what flow charts do?

What is the flow chart supposed to show? typically these things have a title or a caption. Surely you can think of something?

You certainly seem to have enough time to take a dump all over this conversation. Whatever, I don't care anymore, you clearly have nothing to say on this issue.

 

[Saintruski]

What is the flow chart supposed to show? typically these things have a title or a caption. Surely you can think of something?

You certainly seem to have enough time to take a dump all over this conversation.

how to go from a to b to c to d without skipping b and c like you did in your fist reply to me

there's room for speculation, they claimed to have the funds, the staff, the time the promises.

do you know why they are having the issue they claim then are having? want to break out a flow chart? We can see how cause and effect works it will be fun! no...no no no I don't have time to school you in basic shit its close to time for bed.

at the end of the day they are well underfunded which also leads to understaffed for the promises they made for the modules they promised and some modules will never be released(also this is where a flowchart would dumb it down for you and also show you how they shift resources and man power from modules when they realize they can't deliver on promises....stop FPS module we don't have the resources to work on networking focus on squadron 42 etc)...have fun with your rants man im off to bed.

 

[Gen.Grievous]

He moved to blizzard to work on a different project. He was not fired.

Gotta love that crazy rumour milling when he talked about it at length to SC's community.

Oh, this is not about travis day....


Well, nvm!

It's not just with this game.

People change jobs, how is this in anyway meaningful or different. If people go off on rants on social media about their former employer or projects it might be cause for concern but you still have to take it with a grain of salt. A vetted former employee of CDPR claimed the Witcher 3 was in shambles and would be shit on consoles. Well we all know how that turned out.

 

[Zalusithix]

Please forgive my ignorance, but it seems to me that EVE Online/Dust 514 encompasses the vast majority of the scope to which Star Citizen aspires (though with greater disconnect between the "modules"). The only major design element missing is a highly-engineered single-player campaign, but that's the most conservative and old-fashioned part of Star Citizen.

Of course, CIG are aiming for a much higher level of polish, and a seamless transition through various gameplay types. But frankly, I wouldn't call the production quality and design scope of Star Citizen unprecedented in any real way. Rather, to me it's the collaborative and transparent development process that's truly unusual and interesting.

Eve deserves a lot of credit for the things it has done. In some aspects it's more ambitious than Star Citizen, or indeed any other game. The monolithic world is without equal. Taken as a whole, however, I don't think it's at the same level of scope. Integrating all the parts that'll comprise SC together is no small undertaking. That and the sheer detail of the individual aspects is immense. The cargo system alone is looking to be more nuanced than some entire games.

Still, even if they were of the same arbitrary scope level, to achieve what they have with Eve, it requires concessions that make it a very different game than what Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are aiming for.

AFAIK That doesn't fund the game primarily. That is mostly for the community content like AtV.

Yep, basically a transparency funding source. It's what allows them to keep the community as informed as they are on the game - subscribers and non subscribers alike. It's a pity that even with all that information available that some choose to remain ignorant.

 

[GreatestHits]

Technically yes but I wouldn't bother looking them up they never hit their milestones.

They keep promising more and more and more and I doubt it'll ever be finished.

When they planned all this shit out (their development cycle) online, I was like, "Oh really? You're going to make all that? You and what army?"

This is the biggest negative to ambitious projects: They're really hard to pull off. But with hard work and perserverence anything is possible, they are probably going to have to cut or indefinitely delay some features

 

[Toxi]

how to go from a to b to c to d without skipping b and c like you did in your fist reply to me

there's room for speculation, they claimed to have the funds, the staff, the time the promises.

do you know why they are having the issue they claim then are having? want to break out a flow chart? We can see how cause and effect works it will be fun! no...no no no I don't have time to school you in basic shit its close to time for bed.

at the end of the day they are well underfunded which also leads to understaffed for the promises they made for the modules they promised and some modules will never be released(also this is where a flowchart would dumb it down for you and also show you how they shift resources and man power from modules when they realize they can't deliver on promises....stop FPS module we don't have the resources to work on networking focus on squadron 42 etc)...have fun with your rants man im off to bed.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Isn't the FPS module heavily tied to SQ42? Are they even going to be able to release the first episode this year?

 

[Dictator93]

Isn't the FPS module heavily tied to SQ42? Are they even going to be able to release the first episode this year?

It is not as if the FPS is delayed for that long (I expect it in 4 weeks minimum on PTU), also CR already wrote in the letter that FPS is not putting back other releases.

 

[Jackpot]

Confirmed, he's left.

http://worthplaying.com/article/2015/7/6/news/96447/

Alex left CIG last month. It was for personal/family matters. Erin Roberts has taken on the role of Global Head of Production

 

[Sijil]

Yes, I'm sure the 18,000 dollars ship is going to have the same qualities as the starting one.

Honest.

.

Considering that I've bested several 180$ Hornets with my 40$ Aurora, then no, there's no P2W here. But then again how would you know since you obviously have never played the game anyway. And any ship that costs 18,000 (which doesn't exist) is a capital ship which can be taken down with a meager torpedo bomber, it balances out.

Seriously, at least make the effort of learning about the subject that is being discussed before writing.

 

[tuxfool]

Seriously, at least make the effort of learning about the subject that is being discussed before writing.

No, no, no. The number one rule when criticizing Star Citizen is to know nothing about it.

Those that are making informed criticisms are hacks.

 

[Arrage]

Considering that I've bested several 180$ Hornets with my 40$ Aurora, then no, there's no P2W here. But then again how would you know since you obviously have never played the game anyway. And any ship that costs 18,000 (which doesn't exist) is a capital ship which can be taken down with a meager torpedo bomber, it balances out.

Seriously, at least make the effort of learning about the subject that is being discussed before writing.

We are not talking about some hypothetical situations where one ship might be better than another. We are talking about free or very low tier ships having similar stats to the expensive ships in the same category. Just because a torpedo bomber can kill the expensive ship doesn't mean that it offers no advantages over cheap ships.

Nobody in here believes that your $18,000 ship is a cosmetic override that gives no extra stats. Even if you get +1% speed or +1% damage it is the definition of paying for advantage which increases your chance of winning.

I have no idea how to calculate stats in SC: "8x Coming Soon" and "3x HM 4.1" tell me jack shit. Please enlighten me how the most expensive ships compare to the least expensive ones (in the same class).

And if every ship is unique and designed for a specific task (Long range, cargo, tour etc.), then buying more ships gives a huge advantage and fucks over people who only have one.

I am sorry if I sound misinformed, I would really appreciate if you just linked a youtube video or blog post how SC business model is going to be fair and balanced. Just don't use an argument that I don't play the game or don't know, therefore I cannot have any valid points.

 

[Zalusithix]

We are not talking about some hypothetical situations where one ship might be better than another. We are talking about free or very low tier ships having similar stats to the expensive ships in the same category. Just because a torpedo bomber can kill the expensive ship doesn't mean that it offers no advantages over cheap ships.

Quite a few of the most expensive ships aren't even combat focused. That $400 passenger liner? Yeah, not winning any battles with that thing. The multiple expensive cargo haulers (Hull series, Starfarer)? Ditto. The mining ship (Orion)? The salvage ship (Reclaimer)? The explorer (Carrack)? Sure, everything has at least a gun on it, but they're not exactly ships you go out looking for battle in. The armament is there for when shit hits the fan. So I don't see them "winning" anything aside from getting to do what they want to do faster (and adding more diversity to the PU when it goes live so there's more than a million Aurora's flying around.)

On actual combat ships, sure the more expensive ones are generally more capable. Though in order to maximize the advantage of them you'll need more than one player manning them. Even so, buying one doesn't give you an instant win card. You'll still need skill, and you'll be subject to insurance upon death. Abuse the insurance for your "free" (base ship only, only with LTI) and you'll have a progressively longer wait to get back to flying. If you don't have LTI, you're in exactly the same boat that people who earned the ship in game are in upon death.

Then there's the fact that Star Citizen isn't all PvP focused. There are plenty of people who have bought expensive ships who will be mostly PvE oriented.

 

[SniperHunter]

I never understood the hype behind this game.

 

[Sijil]

We are not talking about some hypothetical situations where one ship might be better than another. We are talking about free or very low tier ships having similar stats to the expensive ships in the same category. Just because a torpedo bomber can kill the expensive ship doesn't mean that it offers no advantages over cheap ships.

Nobody in here believes that your $18,000 ship is a cosmetic override that gives no extra stats. Even if you get +1% speed or +1% damage it is the definition of paying for advantage which increases your chance of winning.

I have no idea how to calculate stats in SC: "8x Coming Soon" and "3x HM 4.1" tell me jack shit. Please enlighten me how the most expensive ships compare to the least expensive ones (in the same class).

Let's take the 180$ Honet vs the 40$ Aurora for example, the Aurora Centurion can carry four main weapons and a missile rack while the hornet can carry more firepower but the Aurora has a cargo bay which the Hornet lacks, which limits it's use to combat only while the Aurora has a wider range of uses.

No ship gains any damage percentage increase over the other, a repeater on an Aurora Centurion outputs the same amount of damage as one mounted on a Constellation, same goes for any weapon. Ships differ in size, role, and amount if hardpoints, a bigger more expensive ships is also a slower and bigger target for cheaper ships.

And if every ship is unique and designed for a specific task (Long range, cargo, tour etc.), then buying more ships gives a huge advantage and fucks over people who only have one.

All ships are free and purchasable with in game currency, nothing is locked out. And considering SC is not some competitive MP deathmatch game I don't see how someone with a fleet screws over someone with just one ship since they can't use more than one ship at any given time.

I am sorry if I sound misinformed, I would really appreciate if you just linked a youtube video or blog post how SC business model is going to be fair and balanced. Just don't use an argument that I don't play the game or don't know, therefore I cannot have any valid points.

A ton of articles and posts on the main webpage, search there.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

All ships are free and purchasable with in game currency, nothing is locked out.

I see people often ignore this, in many of the games that allows you to get something just by playing. It's very annoying.

 

[Princess Carl]

I never understood the hype behind this game.

What a pointless post.

 

[tuxfool]

I am sorry if I sound misinformed, I would really appreciate if you just linked a youtube video or blog post how SC business model is going to be fair and balanced. Just don't use an argument that I don't play the game or don't know, therefore I cannot have any valid points.

Dude, at least you're trying to understand. Not something most people are doing.

 

[Geist-]

Don't really want to get into this, but thought I'd leave this here.

Official reply to concerns via Ben Lesnick. (WARNING: Extremely Long Post(s))


Highlights:

‘Feature creep!’

I don’t have much to say to this, beyond that it’s not accurate. At this point, we are not adding additional features to the plan, we’re building out the ones we’ve already scheduled. I’ve seen some recent posts about how Chris’ “first person universe” is at odds with the original Kickstarter-era plan… and that’s again not the case. It’s a more recent way of describing what he wants to accomplish, but everything we’re working on is still what was pitched back then: Privateer-style persistent universe, Squadron 42 single player game, first person boarding and so on. (A desire to avoid feature creep is exactly why we stopped doing stretch goals, despite being aware that they drive revenue.)

‘You’re spending all your time on concept sales!’

We aren’t! Concept sales are something of a slow burn that uses mostly outsource talent who would not otherwise be working on the game. Early in the process, they require a fair amount of design work. Luckily, that’s work we need for the broader game: how will bounty hunters work, how passengers will work, how will repair work and so on. Once that’s done, they’re given to a concept artist (almost always an outside contractor) who works with high level folks on the form and function. When the ship’s design is finished, it gets assigned to a technical designer who figures out how the specific ship will integrate into the game (How big is it, how do the internals lay out, etc.) The fact that we can have regular concept sales is because we have the pipeline working properly – it should be a good sign for outsiders reviewing our production process, not a bad one! (Although the reason it work so smoothly is that it’s infinitely easier to predict a timeline than when you’re taking into account creating new technology and solving game issues. When a producer is trying to do that, he has to base the timeline on something much more vague… whereas you can pretty much know exactly how many hours it’ll take Ryan Church to make a spaceship!)

‘X employee is leaving, we’re doomed!’

As I said in a recent post, turnover sucks… but it’s a constant in this or pretty much any other industry. The sky is not falling. From the inside, it’s always interesting to see how the world reacts. Because it comes off as so specific – the guys who decide to let you know they’re leaving like Travis or Eric are the heart and the soul of the game… because you know them above anything else. In the past two years, we’ve had some amazing talent that has moved on for plenty of reasons (other opportunities, personal issues, etc.) and it’s always sort of a shame to see they’re never appreciated. I’ll also say that the averages work out pretty well: we are hiring extremely talented people many times faster than we lose them.

I also believe there’s some confusion as to just what a producer does. It’s nowhere near as glamorous as it sounds: they aren’t designing the game or telling anyone how it’s going to work… they’re responsible for very methodical processes. A producer is essentially a scheduler, someone who works with giant spreadsheets and charts to make sure the components needed to realize Chris’ vision can happen and that personnel are tasked with individual processes. And then they’re responsible for holding the whip: you said the Freelancer rework would take seven days and you’re on day eight, what’s going on and how do we fix it? and so on.

To speak personally: I’m very sorry to see Travis go, he was a friend and I will miss his company (we actually first met when we were teenagers, when his dad was a producer for Chris!) I didn’t know Alex very well, but I certainly have a high degree of respect for him. And for my honest money, the biggest loss was Chelsea. She really helped set the kind and dedicated tone for the CS department early on, and we’re going to be extra careful to make sure the care she put into helping backers carries over as we get bigger.

And let me end this one by adding: if there’s anything that genuinely makes me unhappy, it’s the speculation about actual people and their lives. It’s almost always bizarrely wrong and it’s just so stupid. Did anyone see the Reddit thread about how Chelsea’s ‘body language’ during her goodbye on RtV proved there was something sinister going on? I mean… seriously? The drama folks are imagining doesn’t exist. Like most people, we’re more like a family than a TV soap opera; there’s certainly tense moments on occasion while we’re arguing about big things (I will confess being ready to murder Travis once or twice… twice), but at the end of the day we truly all get along. The reaction on RtV was real because we’re all genuinely sorry to lose the friends we’d see every day, nothing more.

 

[Xplatformer]

And a lot of his responses will simply be ignored or written off as damage control.

I cannot wait to read "what, Star Citizen actually came out? And it's good?!?!?"

I won't care if it's 2017 when that happens.

 

[serversurfer]

Don't really want to get into this, but thought I'd leave this here.

Official reply to concerns via Ben Lesnick. (WARNING: Extremely Long Post(s))


Highlights:

"And another thing… fuck producers. Who needs 'em anyways?"