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Super "NeoGAF Arcade Stick Thread" II TURBO

Y

Yes Boss!

Member
hibachifinal said:
wait what really? this stick confuses me more.. its for a shmup, but has sanwa parts, and now octo gate... :eek:
Click to expand...

And it even game with stock sanwa buttons.' At a time when all the other licensed sticks had stick Hori. I've been having so much fun with Mii Force that I've been meaning to pull out the Oto stick and give the Otomedius games another go.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
1275522_10201234334912679_1649457766_o.jpg
Click to expand...

from the Art of Fighting stream thread... I didn't know Madcatz had an official VF5FS stick? Apparently it was an Evo 2012 limited run.
 
G

GeorgeC

Banned
sixteen-bit said:
Has the Atrox made it to market yet?
Click to expand...

Are you in Europe or Asia?

Yeah, it's been on the market for over two months now. It might be American-only shipping, maybe not... I don't know.

As of this moment, it's Net-shop only orders. You have to buy from Razer's website... nobody else sells the stick direct as far as I know and the mark-ups I've seen elsewhere from Asian/European importers are RIDICULOUS. You can't buy it in a regular videogame brick/mortar store and I doubt they will ship them to those mainstream stores. You'll have to buy the joystick online. Sorry!

The joystick IS nice, BUT it's a bit overpriced for what it is... Mad Catz has incorporated a lot of the same features in the TE2 for the XBONE but that's over a month away in the US still. Right now, you can buy the TE's and FightStick Pro's for $100 US or less around tournament times at the Mad Catz website and certainly gently used, like-new condition MC joysticks for $80! It's hard to justify $175 US for the Atrox in the face of the existing competition.

(NOTE: US prices-only. I know they're never that cheap in Europe, and usually not much less in Asia, too.)


As it is, it's very late in the game for anyone to launch a new PS3 or XBox360 controller. Yes, hardcore fighting gamers will buy a new joystick but these companies also have to look at the greater numbers of gamers. That greater number is going to be migrating to the new consoles this fall and winter, over the next year... (Makes no sense to me, personally, but I'm not about to tell people what to do with their money.)
Nobody can reasonably ignore either hardcore gamers, focused groups (FGC crowd), or the general public. You do that at your own risk and you will get burned.

Prime example in point =>
It's very possible that this is the last generation Nintendo will produce a home console because they screwed far too many really general "don't know that they're thinking at the moment/just DUMB" people who bought the Wii. (These are the same dummies that buy "M-rated" games for their kids in spite of warning by gamestore clerks. Their kids love them for buying them GTA on the PS3 or XBox 360 despite the fact the little jerks shouldn't be playing that game but I'm sure those that got a Wii HATED their parents for buying that system, too!) The motion controls on that system were worth shit, IMHO. Lots of hard-core gamers HATED those controllers on top of the really shitty third party Betaware/tech demonstrator software titles that were sold in droves on the Wii. Nice party game gimmick but not revolutionary or even particularly good controllers... but obviously good enough to sell 99million even if only about 100 of the 1200 games made for the system were any good! Nintendo completely ignored its own QA standards to get SOME software out for the system and they're paying the price for that on the Wii U now.... which doesn't have very good third party support, EITHER... and only the absolute Nintendo-heads (50 of those guys left, now? I think there's more love for the 3DO now!) will buy the system software -- and only when Nintendo releases its own 5 or 6 software titles for the year!

The first party console vendors cannot ignore the hard core gaming crowd, yes, but you cannot be so focused on them that you blow off third party software support or do and say some really stupid things at press conferences that piss off gamers in general, too. SEGA sure learned that lesson. Nintendo's going through that, too, now, and unless a miracle happens or the company is really THAT stubborn, the Wii U has to be their last home console. I suspect they'll continue doing handheld game systems unless they get done by the Android/Nokia shit, but they've practically owned that market for years and have never as boneheaded with those and suffered the wrath of gamers like they have on the console systems.

(Well, there was Virtual Boy, yeah, but they killed all the vendors who TALKED about that system even the second AFTER it was pulled from shelves! To my mind, that was their worst move prior to the Wii/Wii U.)

************************************************************
Sure, the FGC will continue on the PS3 and XBox 360 for maybe 3 more years but I'm saying this right now, most people are focused on the next systems whether that makes sense or not and a bunch of dummies have already traded in current systems for what in my opinion is still vaporware until you can hold and feel final product. I have seen the lists of launch games for the new entries, and, in all honesty, there's not much to chose. I already made up my mind to pass on the MS system for a third time in a row (I just hate Microsoft that much more than even Sony and I have my own Sony stories to tell!!!! It's NOT all love between Sony and me by any stretch; I have no use for Nintendo, period) but I have no use for a PS4 until probably next year. I saw maybe one game in a listing I read today that actually looked interesting to me.... There is so, so much I still want to buy for my PS3 in addition to at least one back-up PS3 system!

****************************************************************


FIRST PS4 ARCADE STICK RELEASE????

Probably around the time the "Game of the Year Edition" for DC Heroes / Injustice Gods Among Us" gets released.
Shoryuken.com carried a story that the GOTY for this game would be released on PS4 and XBONE, too. Can't imagine that any self-respecting joystick vendor WOULDN'T release a PS4 joystick around that time.
It wouldn't take more than a PCB change to release a PS4 Tournament Edition joystick, would it?
Of course, being an earlier console release for the PS4/XBONE, does honestly think the game will be better than the PS3/XBox360 releases??? Be honest with yourself instead of being the obnoxious first kid on the block that has to own the new shiny toy...
 
G

GeorgeC

Banned
Yes Boss! said:
Is that true?

I've never used a 58. I'd guess that the trusty 32 is the most popular though.

I've got one of those analoque interactive sticks...think it might use a 58, though I've never played on it.
Click to expand...


Stick with the LS-32, LS-40, or LS-56....

In retrospect, WHY did Seimitsu have to "redesign" the LS-56 and introduce the LS-58?

From what I gather, the joystick has not been particularly successful and a number of the vendor shops in the US have pulled it from their product lists! I kid you not! A year ago, they were selling these things and had about phased out the LS-56 in some cases. Focus Attack still wasn't carrying the LS-56 at the time and didn't have much Seimitsu stock, period, but they AND VideoGamesNewYork were selling LS-58's. The bubbletop, transparent shaft and dustcover variety. There were solid-colored shaft LS-58's but nobody in the US has ever carried those... It's all about marketing at parts buyers who want more bling.

What Seimitsu should have done was make the VF Mounting Plate optional and just ship the LS-56 with MS Mounting Plates that actually FIT ALL the in-production joysticks on the market! (It would be nice, too, if they sold LS-40's with SS Mounting Plates, too. The RE: Mounting Plate that is stock on the at stick isn't compatible with ANY major in-production joystick from Japanese/American producers and at least 95% of the joysticks made over the past 4 years.)

The LS-58 makes no sense from a production point of view... They only changed the mounting screw area -- but it was enough to require some retooling and to do LS-58 versions of ALL the LS-56 mounting plates. The only major change from the LS-56 was the spring. The LS-58 is looser tension-wise from the LS-56 spring and that's the biggest downfall I see aside from confusing customers even more about what parts to order to support the damn control lever!

People complained about the LS-58 spring being too loose and in many cases replaced it with the compatible LS-56 spring!

I'll state, for the record, that I agree with this POV. I own a smoke-grey LS-58-01 and frankly the spring IS too loose. I can still play with it, yes, but I get better performance and control with either the LS-32 or LS-40 for fighting games, for sure. I probably WON'T sell the LS-58 unless it still fails after an LS-56 spring transplant.

What a laugh...! The main reason you switch among joysticks is feel and performance; 50% of that, at least, has to be the spring. The LS-58 is a fail for many people unless they replace the spring... I bet it's been the reason many people aware of the situation wouldn't even buy one unless it's that important to avoid the extra work of installing bubbletops and transparent shaft/dustcovers on their lever.

Seimitsu's naming conventions and the way they design product and put it out there sometimes...! it confuses the hell out of you, really, if try to follow it too closely and try to be logical. I have no use for the JLF because it has too many performance issues. There's too big an aftermarket mod part there to think the JLF is anything but seriously performance-impaired. That said, I still think in many ways it has a better design philosphy than the Seimitsu levers. Again, I still think the Seimitsu's have key performance advantages over the JLF and as much as I hate all the screws and overcomplicated build of the joysticks, I only have to install/uninstall the darn things a few times over their lifetimes... It may take 20 minutes or more longer to actually PUT the LS-joysticks into a case but that's not something you do every day unless some serious modding freak.
 
Y

Yes Boss!

Member
Good infos.

I'm guess I just fine with the L3-32s. They are always my favorites and no reason to change.

Incidentally, I noticed that one of my EX-SE has a bit of minor corrosion at the base. I always see old sticks from the nineties with this but this is the first time seeing it on one of my sticks. This is my most used stick, though. I'll probably clean it off and put a small coat of oil at the base to ward it off.

null_zps43f83de7.jpg
 
H

hibachifinal

Member
real talk, georgeC's rants on seimitsu is always "interesting"...

all your issues seem to be at a retailer level, Seimitsu provides you an option on which mounting plate to buy with their Compact line of sticks (33/55/56/58) if you order from them directly.

you're also ignoring the design choices they do for arcade cabinets, which is their main market. VF plate is meant to retrofit on the more common Sanwa control panels for sega cabinets (blast, versus, net, new net, lindbergh). These cabinets are popular in E/SE Asia, that's all you ever see, and most likely, it will have Sanwa parts in it. When I lived in HK all the cabinets there had sanwa panels. rare cases are NeoGeo candies.

JLF has performance issues? Umehara uses JLF for everything and he still does amazing shit in ST. it's all about the player :v (oh yeah i went there lol)

the JLF mods are fun, i have many of them, from custom actuators to springs, microsw's, etc, i've tried hundreds of mods on JLF's. but I always end up going back to the stock condition JLF's, it feels the most balanced.

If you also notice how most of us who grew up in asia play, a lot use the "wineglass grip", JLF is in my opinion the most comfortable for that kind of hold because of how smooth and soft the tension is, it might explain how the LS-58 is also loose like that. 58's were meant to challenge the JLF i'd say, they even specifically promote it for fighting game use

Im still waiting for Seimitsu to officially release the LED infused LS-56 :D

Yes Boss! said:
I'll probably clean it off and put a small coat of oil at the base to ward it off.
Click to expand...

what I do is submerge corroded part in a freshly opened can/bottle of coca cola for around 12-24 hrs. then just wipe off lol works pretty well, might leave some scuffs though depending on now "deep" the rust has gotten. I've also done this on a few bottom panels for arcade sticks... waste of Coke though :(

getting a new set of "seimitsu refresh kits" are cheap too :p
 
G

GeorgeC

Banned
Heh...

Gotta laugh off what some people say.

If you haven't done play comparison between Seimitsu LS joysticks and the "holy grail" of joysticks, the JLF -- only 'annointed' so because it's the main OEM equipment for Japanese-style cases and for the fact that most gamers are too cheap to play test, let alone try, another joystick lever unless they attend a tournament(!) --, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Honestly, someone other than me is blowing hot air up other people's asses, here.

Biggest reveal about the JLF's performance issues is still the aftermarket for mod parts. Why, pray tell, so many parts offered online if there weren't obvious performance deficiencies in the JLF?

This is NOT the joystick I would use, let alone choose to play with on any CPS-1, CPS-2, or SNK Neo Geo fighters. Sure, it's "okay" on SF IV and Marvel Vs Capcom 2/3 but those are slow-paced, slow-poke fighters compared to what was released in the mid- to late 1990s on arcades and home systems that were doing arcade-perfect ports despite what the anal frame-counters say.

(Makes you wonder if some people EVER play with anything other than what the rest of their friends and the herd are playing. Never heard of playing alternative, less popular systems? What sells best generally isn't the best in my own experience. There's a lot of politicking, media hype -- media's best at sucking up to whoever pays them off the best and they almost never report the truth let alone the whole story --, and a herding/band wagon mentality that overrides common sense. Being more independent, smarter, and a more assertive consumer isn't valued. How else do you explain people sticking with the 360 despite the massive system failures due to bad heat cooling design/YROD???)

Sanwa buttons are great but for many people they're just too sensitive and don't offer as many style and color choices as other competitors. At least they don't have measurable throw, re-centering, and travel distance problems like the JLF does.

Don't want to believe me, fine... But at least say so after you've played half the games I have with BOTH the JLF and Seimitsu. Don't be cute because it only tells me you don't know what you're talking about and you really, really don't have the experience you claim you do, either...
 
G

GeorgeC

Banned
StarCreator said:
A friend around here owns one and says it has a square gate.
Click to expand...


Sounds funny to me, too.

I've NEVER heard of a mass-joystick Japanese-style case selling with an octogate installation. You have to buy those restrictor gates as separate add-ons for just about any Japanese joystick maker that actually produces an octo-gate. Optional octaganal restrictor gates, IMHO, are one of the worst buys you can make for a control lever. The effectiveness in most cases is questionable... You're better off getting used to the control lever's built-in quirks or switching brands and trying another control lever style.

Some of the American-style manufacturers did produce joysticks with adjustable 2-, 4-, and 8-way restriction but they're "long out of the game/in running" and you're only ever going to see joysticks like that on massively old American-style setups, MAME cabinets, people who can't play with anything but "what they remember playing with in arcades when existed near where they lived growing up," and the occasional oddball tournament players that has a foot deep tall joystick case. Most current day stick buyers are getting Japanese parts. It's a matter or personal taste, yes, but people way more anal than I'll ever be have gone ahead and measured throw lengths, restrictor movements, etc. so there's some data to favor the Japanese brands.

(Read through, shake your head, or go "Meh" or yell, "Eureka!" => http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html Some conclusions have been questioned by some but it's still regarded as the most complete FAQ on the major joystick brands.)

A lot of alternate joystick levers tend to be bigger than the Japanese and even Korean joystick levers. The LS-32 is a tankly beast but it's far from the biggest control lever out there and does tend to fit most of the joystick cases including a fair amount of post-1997 retro cases. Good luck trying to fit a Happ or iL joystick into a present-day Japanese style joystick case! Even Crown threw the towel in and decided to repattern THEIR Korean levers to fit the HRAP and Mad Catz cases. (Took 'em long enough!)

If you're an arcade player (Asia, rest of the world where they still do that), you'd better get used to OEM arcade equipment. They won't put in a GT-Y/octo-gate just because you're not comfortable with Sanwa or Seimitsu default set-ups.

That's one area where you can't beat the tournament setting... You can bring in your customized gear and nobody gives a damn as long as you're not using cheating devices like pre-programmed chain strings and one-button push special moves. Totally agree that the cheaters should be banned. I'm still wondering on how things will settle out with the hitboxes... Some of the alternate controllers you see, read, or hear about make you scratch your head and wonder about the potential for cheating with those devices. Somebody will get away with it, sooner or later, if not already.
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
gah, originally i didnt plan on buying any arcade sticks while i was in japan

i ended up buying 4 >.>

I got a new one that's not out yet!
 
A

Astarte

Member
Got a Qanba 4, waiting on buttons and art before I can REALLY use it.
It's either Jojo or my waifu, either way I'm going to get strange looks
 
A

Astarte

Member
Are Seimitsu clear buttons better than Sanwa clear buttons for art purposes? I've been noticing that most of the art modded fightsticks I see have seimitsu buttons; I'm a bit eh on that because I've never used Seimitsus before.
 
H

hibachifinal

Member
well,
the clear part of the sanwa buttons's plunger (clear cap?) just 'snaps-on' to the actuator base. it might me tight to fit your artwork inside, depending on the weight of the paper/sticker/etc

semitsu's on the other hand, have the actuator 'sandwiched' inside the clear cap itself.. you can put thicker inserts inside like cut thin plexi or thicker vinyl (but making the button taller and heavier)

application of artwork is easy for both

another reason why some people might prefer the seimitsus is that sanwa only has 6 colors for the clear buttons, while seimitsu has 9, also seimitsu's have two varieties, snap ins and screw-ins.. making them have more choices on color and where/how to mount.

the sanwa clears have been known to break if you try to remove them if you're not careful, so if you snap them in you best be sure its gonna stay there. lol

if you like the feel of sanwa's more, what some people do is put the obsf microswitches inside the PS-14-K (snap in seimitsu clears)... might work well.
 
S

StarCreator

Member
hibachifinal said:
I did a thing.

clicky buttons, just like bemani, tried it on shmups, kinda fun.
Click to expand...

My roommate in college did this not because of the feel, but because he would destroy his microswitches within a month or two of installing the button and he wanted something that would last longer. At one point I was entertaining the idea of making a stick for him out of parts used for elevator control panels just so that it would be a stick he couldn't destroy.

Can those microswitch assemblies be mounted from underneath a normal button? I've wanted to try modding them into the Project DIVA controllers but for that to work I have to be able to install them from underneath.
 
H

hibachifinal

Member
StarCreator said:
Can those microswitch assemblies be mounted from underneath a normal button? I've wanted to try modding them into the Project DIVA controllers but for that to work I have to be able to install them from underneath.
Click to expand...

ah ha, you read my mind.
I did notice that the ProDiva controllers had similar size switches. yeah these OBS-M's mount from the bottom, you squeeze it lightly to fit until it snaps in and goes inside the plunger. BUT for HORI buttons, notice theres like a ridge on the underside, you might wanna trim those, or else the OBS-M will be wobbly, i see it is similar in the Project Diva controllers. best to check the direction of the actuator slot too, but knowing hori, it might mimic the sanwa buttons.

I noticed these switches are similar in OF to Pop N' Music and Bemani IIDX keys, so if you're used to those, these should be good, only issue i see is physical clearance.

might also work well for the sanwa obsf-30Q's (those dome buttons), ! mini pop n' or PD controllers lol
 
S

StarCreator

Member
hibachifinal said:
ah ha, you read my mind.
I did notice that the ProDiva controllers had similar size switches. yeah these OBS-M's mount from the bottom, you squeeze it lightly to fit until it snaps in and goes inside the plunger. BUT for HORI buttons, notice theres like a ridge on the underside, you might wanna trim those, or else the OBS-M will be wobbly, i see it is similar in the Project Diva controllers. best to check the direction of the actuator slot too, but knowing hori, it might mimic the sanwa buttons.

I noticed these switches are similar in OF to Pop N' Music and Bemani IIDX keys, so if you're used to those, these should be good, only issue i see is physical clearance.

might also work well for the sanwa obsf-30Q's (those dome buttons), ! mini pop n' or PD controllers lol
Click to expand...

How do you suggest trimming those ridges? Some sort of file? And are the switches independently replaceable? My initial research on the subject last year told me the microswitches were standard, but riveted in place; nothing a Dremel and a simple screw and nut can't fix though.

Any chance you could do some measurements to find out how much more vertical real estate is taken up vs a normal button microswitch? That would give me a better idea if this would physically fit before I commit to buying. This is probably out of the question for the Project DIVA mini controller for clearance reasons (the existing switch barely fits in those as is) and pop'n mini controllers aren't microswitched at all.
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
BOTEC said:
Hawt, do want. Question, why no Crown buttons?
Click to expand...

We didn't want to deter having the product stuck to using only Crown (smaller holes) buttons. However, if you want to use Crown + spacers you can use those buttons on these to make it full Korean.
 
A

Astarte

Member
Alrighty, thanks guys. Got some clear semitsus and I think I prefer them more than sanwas, plus it's pretty easy to slap some art on them.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
Welcome to Seimitsu land. Enjoy your stay where you can use parts that don't register when you look at them funny! Where the sticks are tighter and have a better throw (rawr) and where you can play fighters AND shmups with the same stick!
 
Z

Zissou

Member
I want to mess around with a seimitsu lever sometime. I can't see myself ever using their buttons though- since getting used to the precision/sensitivity of sanwas, I don't think I could switch.
 
B

BOTEC

Member
Zissou said:
I want to mess around with a seimitsu lever sometime. I can't see myself ever using their buttons though- since getting used to the precision/sensitivity of sanwas, I don't think I could switch.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya man. I love Seimitsu levers, but the buttons are kind of all over the place. Sanwa killed it with the OBSF-30.
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Exaprize broke during my move so I bought a Soul Edition TE the other week. Was like ~4000¥ on amazon ヽ(゜▽、゜)ノ
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
ponpo said:
Exaprize broke during my move so I bought a Soul Edition TE the other week. Was like ~4000¥ on amazon ヽ(゜▽、゜)ノ
Click to expand...
my favorite controller. the art maybe looks too busy, but damn do I love that stick!
 
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