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Super Smash Brothers for Wii U squandered its best idea

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Injustice 2 has been announced to feature a "Gear System" that allows you to customize your character.


The Gear System uses RPG-like mechanics to reward you with loot drops every time you play the game. With each loot drop, you will earn character-specific gear to outfit and power up your roster – changing not only the look of each character, but your fight strategy and your personal approach to every match. As you gear up your characters, you’re building a roster of DC Super Heroes and Super-Villains that reflects your choices, and your preferences, which can be vastly different than your opponents. A few play sessions in, you can expect your Aquaman to look and play different than anyone else’s Aquaman you may come across.

At first glance, many gamers were reminded of the much maligned Gem System in Street Fighter X Tekken.

In the same manner, Capcom stated they intended to use the Gem System to allow you to make your Ryu different from your opponents.

It's a sound idea and innovative.


But of course, the final game's implementation of the system had several flaws.

  • Preorder Gems that were better than the in game earned ones
  • Purchased gems that were better than the in game earned ones
  • Needing to exit to a separate menu to set your preset before you select it on the character select screen
  • Gems that were too slight in effect, being only minor statistical modifiers, and too many of them


The previous game by Injustice 2's developer, Netherrealm Studios, Mortal Kombat X also featured a system that allowed the characters to be different from one another in mirror matches.


With the Variation System, although Scorpion was still Scorpion in his size, movement speed, normal attacks, and some iconic specials like the spear, one player could choose a Scorpion who was better suited for combos up close, while another could choose one that was better for long distance zoning, based on personal preference or situational optimalness.

Which brings me back to Smash Bros 4 WiiU.

The custom moves idea had me more excited once it was announced than anything else or since related tot he game. The potential I felt it had to shake up the series and even the genre conventions was great.

But of course, the implementation was flawed in so many key ways.


  • Moves had to be unlocked with a randomized system that takes forever
  • Moves had to be set into presets from a dedicated screen before being selected on the character select
  • Some moves are much more varied than others (Palutena and the Miis having much more effort put into interesting move choices as a showcase of the system)
  • Not usable in online matches with non-friends
  • They gave up on the idea completely with the DLC characters

So the question is, why has no one done the idea of move loadouts in a fighting game perfectly yet*?

The criteria is simple:


  • All available from the start for local/tournament play
  • An interface for assigning moves on the character select screen itself
  • Show what moves both players have chosen on the matchup screen prior to the fight starting for long enough that you know what you're up against

Oh wait, a fighting game did come along and was looking like it would do everything I wanted.


It has been canceled.

In an hour and a half we'll see the Injustice 2 gameplay reveal, and perhaps find out that this Gear System is actually a perfectly implemented version of custom moves/a sort of "Kreate-A-Variation" that was just described vaguely/misleadingly by the press release.

But for now I have to lament that the sound idea of player expression through special move customization* in 1v1 fighters has yet to be used in a game well.

*This also doesn't include the myriad of games where you choose a universal system mode like Isms or Grooves, the topic is about custom special moves specifically.

*Lets ignore the assumption that it would create an impossible to be balanced game, as balance has never been the end all be all of a fighter's reception.
 

RockmanBN

Member
Don't most of the top Sm4sh players despise customs because they too janky and requires them to learn more match ups?
 

Illucio

Banned
I was so excited for this feature when they teased it. When the final game launched I brushed it aside and said "I rather have more characters"
I still feel kind of wrong for saying that.
 
The key to these being competitively viable is them not being unlockables and being easy to set up from the character select screen. Was really excited for it in Smash as well, but the difficulty of unlocking everything absolutely ruined it.

Great OP, by the way.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Can't say that I disagree. Changing special moves should be as simple as changing assists in the MvC games. Likewise, they should all be available from the start. Hopefully Smash 5 corrects some of the
mistakes Smash 4 made with custom moves.
 

L Thammy

Member
I'm confused. Why is the OP talking about custom moves in their post when they're talking about Smash Run in the title?
 
Speaking of wasted potential....

latest


The thing that will forever kill me about Palutena is that literally all of her useful and fun moves are locked away in the custom bin.

"See this side special that lets you dash across the screen, lending to some incredible recovery, approach, combo, mixup and even KO options? Oops sorry, it's a custom move."

"See this down special that increases your overall mobility by a crapload and also grants you some much needed kill confirms? Oops sorry, it's a custom move."

"See this up special which lets you glide around like a jet that also lets you attack out of it without there being much landing lag if you hit somebody right when you land, effectively giving you even more approach options? Ahuh, sorry, it's a custom move."

"LOL, have fun using a shitty/boring counter, reflector and teleport :^)"

It's like Sakurai basically gimped her on purpose just to show off how custom moves could change a character, which backfired completely due to the fact that nobody uses them, especially since they're blacklisted completely (along with Miis) in With Anyone.

Mii mains complain about not having their specials but honestly Palutena feels kinda just as gimped without her custom specials.

I really wish she could of been designed like a normal character (or just have Super Speed and Lightweight as her defaults), instead of being based around banned moves. I know there are people giving Default Palu decent representation in Smash 4's meta like Prince Ramen and TLTC and she's not one of the worst characters in the game, but I just find her so boring and underwhelming to play as. She's the only reason I ever bother turning customs on when I can.
 
I play customs with my friends all the time. It breathed new life into the game for us. Not just custom moves, but equipment too such as the Vampire badge or Auto Heal. It kind of breaks the game, but if everyone is playing a broken character it evens out. Lots of fun. I agree though that the barrier of entry and implementation could be improved.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
I'm indifferent with custom moves but I did enjoyed to play with custom moves once in awhile however most of my friends always ignored it so I didn't really play with custom moves for like 90-95% of the time. Believe it or not, but I actually got all custom moves for 3DS and Wii U; and same for all customization features for Mii Fighters.

Legit question for people who said that they would rather to see teams including more characters over custom moves feature. If they never did custom moves then how many characters do you actually think they are going to add? I just assume that custom moves didn't really take up that much times as people believed that it did.

Mii Fighter is only customization feature that I actually played with most of times.

I'm confused. Why is the OP talking about custom moves in their post when they're talking about Smash Run in the title?

I didn't know that Smash Run is in Smash Bros U?
 

MAtgS

Member
StreetSmash_battle.jpg


It baffles me that streetpass on 3DS wasn't downloading ghost data of another player's customized fighter & instead some tin pin knockoff.
 

Ryce

Member
I guess this makes me boring, but I hate customization in video games. I always use the default costume/color/name/moveset settings when possible.
 

Beats

Member
Yeah, I agree. Probably one of the things I was most excited about pre release, but their implementation was pretty bad for the reasons you stated. There was also the fact that you could get duplicate moves which made the unlocking part even more tedious than it already was. My favorite character to play in Smash 4 is Wii Fit Trainer with some of their custom specials. Don't really get to play the character all that much competitively anymore cause pretty much no one uses custom moves now. : <
 
I never tried Custom moves, I like the standard stuff.


Also I'll wait till you actually try the new gear system, it could end up bad
 

Sandfox

Member
I'm personally not a fan of customization in fighting games and as for your criteria I don't think tournaments would use them in the first place.
 

L Thammy

Member
I didn't know that Smash Run is in Smash Bros U?

So apparently my brain is reading "Super Smash Bros for Wii U" as "Super Smash Bros 4" now. Carry on.

I think custom moves ended up being a throwaway thing because they were treated as a throwaway thing. Didn't Sakurai even say that he didn't bother balancing them?
 

KingBroly

Banned
They're too hard to get, honestly.

But I feel like they wouldn't work competitively and for fun it'd just slow things down.
 

Clefargle

Member
It's incredibly interesting. My friends and I play with customs on and some equipment allowed. I've been talking with @artfulhobbes on Twitter about Smooth lander anchor jump as a play standard and it absolutely makes the game much more fast paced and risky.
 

Beats

Member
So apparently my brain is reading "Super Smash Bros for Wii U" as "Super Smash Bros 4" now. Carry on.

I think custom moves ended up being a throwaway thing because they were treated as a throwaway thing. Didn't Sakurai even say that he didn't bother balancing them?

A few of the balance patches had adjustments to some of them but nothing big.
 

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
As a more competitive player that often dismisses features that a lot of people may consider fun, I was very excited for the custom moves. I thought it would add another dimension to matchups and counterpicking.

Alas, there doesn't seem to have been any effort put into balancing those, so it's for the best that they're not used. Squandered? Absolutely.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Somehow I feel like smash 4's best idea was the for glory mode that some how still managed to be underwhelming and laggy as all hell.

That must be your connection. I don't really have any huge issue with lag.

The idea is nice for people who like that sort of thing, but personally, all I have are three generic Miis that look like the official versions.

Yeah, their dlc costumes were really much good on fan-service side, which I'm guilty of picking Geno, Takamaru, etc.
 

Autosaver

Neo Member
The problem with custom moves is that a majority of them are garbage as well as the fact that it is incredibly hard to balance. Instead of worrying about the balance of 20 different characters, you now have 20 different characters with thousands of different combinations and match ups. That is just hell for the developer and I assume that is why they were disabled online.
 
The problem with custom moves is that a majority of them are garbage as well as the fact that it is incredibly hard to balance. Instead of worrying about the balance of 20 different characters, you now have 20 different characters with thousands of different combinations and match ups. That is just hell for the developer and I assume that is why they were disabled online.

At the very least they should of allowed Palutena's and the Mii Fighters in general. They have customs that are like, actual moves and not cheap/tacky variations like all the others (besides maybe Mega Man's).
 

jnWake

Member
I hope they expand on this idea in the future. Many characters have so much potential for custom moves like Palutena's that it'd be a shame if they never get them.

For example, Mario could kick a Green Shell for his Neutral B (like in SMRPG), use a Propeller Mushroom for his Up B and several other possible ideas from his many games. Same applies to other characters like Samus, Link and Mega Man, who have tons of possible sources for special moves.

Implementation of them in Smash 4 is wonky because they are a pain to unlock, several are horribly unbalanced and you can't use them against randoms on the internet.
 
For example, Mario could kick a Green Shell for his Neutral B (like in SMRPG), use a Propeller Mushroom for his Up B and several other possible ideas from his many games. Same applies to other characters like Samus, Link and Mega Man, who have tons of possible sources for special moves.

Mega Man's the only not Mii/Palutena character that actually had some effort put into his customs. They're all actually based on robot master abilities from the series like Ice Slasher and Tornado Hold.
 

Oidisco

Member
Custom moves in Smash 4 can be a lot of fun if you're not playing too seriously, but in a competitive setting they're just a mess.

I know people made the argument that they elevated some of the low/bottom tier characters and made them potentially viable, but what they did to the high/top tier characters stomped all over the positives.
 

PsionBolt

Member
I really do love the addition of customs. Some characters that I will literally never play with their default moves are quite fun with customs; Gannondorf's multi-hitting Side B and jumping Down B make him fifty times more fun. But despite being a fan of customs overall, even I agree that the unlocking and selecting of the moves was junk.

I know OP says -isms and such don't count, but I think moving customs more in that direction would be an excellent solution. If you could just select from custom sets 1111 / 2222 / 3333 on the character select screen similar to changing colors, it'd be a massive improvement. If you also unlocked each of those sets simply by clearing a mode with that character (as in, along with the character's All-Star Mode trophy, you get Style 3), I would have no more complaints.
(Actually that's a lie; I'd still complain that DLC characters don't have customs. That sucks.)


...Also, Smash 4's true could-have-been-best feature was Omega mode. Instead of everything being FD, it should have been just a toggle for stage hazards / walls / walkoffs.
 
Custom moves in Smash 4 can be a lot of fun if you're not playing too seriously, but in a competitive setting they're just a mess.

I know people made the argument that they elevated some of the low/bottom tier characters and made them potentially viable, but what they did to the high/top tier characters stomped all over the positives.

And Nintendo could fix that with their patches the same way they did modifications to the base moves, but why bother when no one is using customs, because they made them such a hassle to get and equip in the first place?

I know OP says -isms and such don't count, but I think moving customs more in that direction would be an excellent solution. If you could just select from custom sets 1111 / 2222 / 3333 / 4444 on the character select screen similar to changing colors, it'd be a massive improvement.

I always hated that about how some tournaments that used customs did it that way, since it undermines the whole concept.

Okay, you made presets for 1111, 2222, 3333, and 4444. to speed up the selection process.

What if I want to use 3411 or 1132 or 2224?

Simplifying it away from full individual move picking makes it into s different game mechanic entirely.
 

KHlover

Banned
Shouldn't have locked custom moves behind the worst unlocking system ever conceived. Next time just have them unlocked right off the bat (like Palutena) and be done with it.
 

L Thammy

Member
It does annoy me that they didn't include "default" Mii characters for online play through. The wide variety of characters is a big selling point in fighting games, it seems like a huge waste that three of them get shoved under the rug so much.
 
Agreed. And I had no idea Rising Thunder got cancelled. That fucking sucks.

They got bought by Riot games, who has already given the okay to a LoL fighter fangame that was being made, and Rising Thunder's cooldown system for specials is like what MOBAs have, so people are hoping Riot might be having them make a fighter for them, possibly with the LoL license.
 

Zebei

Member
Smash For has quite a few questionable decisions. . .but Customs are by far the greatest failure of the game.


And the worst part is how important they are meant to be.


3 characters designed around customizations
1 completely ruined because all of her good moves are behind those customs.
All of the single player stuff for them




All of that work and no one wants to use the damn things because of how horrendously they were implemented. And even if they DID want to use them you can't use them online. You aren't allowed. A damn shame.
 

Oidisco

Member
Another issue is that none of the DLC characters have custom moves which seemed like a weird decision to me, though the idea of Ryu or Cloud having customs is kinda scary to me.
 

Cronox

Banned
I agree with you OP. When customs were announced I thought we were looking at standard variations for all characters, giving more room for playstyles and options. Instead we got a lot of jank and only a few characters who had actual changed specials/animations (Miis, Palutena, Mega Man). It's too bad. The method of unlocking them was also laborious and unnecessary padding for a game that had very little to do in single player.

Mii fighters were also squandered. Make a customizable character, then disallow them from the standard online modes? I never bought a single Mii fighter costume, because they weren't a viable character to play as online. They kinda shot themselves in the foot on that DLC model there...

This isn't even getting into the terrible implementation of stages on for glory (all omega stages cause Sakurai doesn't understand the competitive scene).

It's still a great game though.
 

jnWake

Member
Mega Man's the only not Mii/Palutena character that actually had some effort put into his customs. They're all actually based on robot master abilities from the series like Ice Slasher and Tornado Hold.

Only visually though IIRC. Other than Beat I don't they work much differently than the original special moves.
 

L Thammy

Member
Another issue is that none of the DLC characters have custom moves which seemed like a weird decision to me, though the idea of Ryu or Cloud having customs is kinda scary to me.

Ryu seems easy. Just borrow moves from Ken, Akuma, or Sakura. Or Dan if you're feeling frisky.
 

Wallach

Member
I had no idea they canceled Rising Thunder. That's a shame.

I'm also hopeful for Injustice 2 having some fresh ideas. Netherrealm has been doing a lot of good work in this context.
 
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