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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

Again uploading 2 matches to see what's wrong with my play, how I should fix that and how I continue from a plateau

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EgCYR-nnoqA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXs_OwZFok
Not a whole lot I can add since I'm not familiar with Laura all that much, but I'll mention some basic pointers. Against Nash for example, a character who doesn't have much in the way of any wake-up reversal, you exactly pressure him with meaties, command grabs, electricity set-ups, neutral jump conditioning and so forth. He can attempt to escape with V-Trigger of course, but even before that I hadn't noticed much of it. Doesn't work as effective vs someone with a Shoryuken-like special move in their repertoire, so look into who you can and cannot in this type of scenario. In between both the Ryu and the Nash fight when they were throwing out their respective projectiles, I haven't really seen you make sufficient attempts to fish for an EX Elbow Bash opening; it covers a fair distance and it has one hit of armor, so it'd be good for closing the gap (with added benefits) against predictable patterns. Not much in the way of air control coming from you either; this is something any character in the game can establish, albeit at varying degrees of efficiency. Find out what her anti-air normals or air-to-air options are in others words. Some uncertainty in your punishes as well, looking at (for example) how EX Sonic Scythe only suffered a standard grab in retaliation.

Two additional bad habits I noticed: you liked to jump forwards a lot to avoid a Sonic Boom or Hadoken. This is okay when you're within safe jump distance, but the Ryu counter-acted accordingly and the further you get, the more often more experienced players will anti-air you. As someone like Laura, either neutral jump over them to lower the risk or be more patient. You showed some of the latter already, which is good, but you lacked forward-moving pressure like the one video example I linked in my Birdie post earlier. This is essential to any character with a variety of command grabs. The second one being you generally throwing out unsafe attacks willy-nilly, like Laura's lunging overhead kick. Either use those less often or practice spacing them to the point only the tip connects for if the opponent blocks.

Hi guys, I was directed to come here for some advices. Here's a replay of mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA7TAW6l1T4

I'm the chun player, and tbh I pretty much feel like I can,t do anything vs anyone who rushes like crazy, this video is a good example of that. I start jumping like a retard and cant land anything

Anyone can give me some tips?
- Little too frequent with the sweeps there. Not particularly safe.
- Pushing buttons when they weren't in reach (by quite a margin) got you in trouble a number of times.
- Virtually no anti-airs or air-to-airs: serious shortcoming that would've made all the difference vs this player.
- Inconsistent with your punishes and hit confirms. You weren't bad at it, but a couple of opportunities (some of which you even noticed) slipped by because of your execution. This'll improve over time.
- Speaking of: grabbing in response to an unsafe attack (barring circumstantial exceptions) is an auto-pilot thing you need to kick. Easier said than done since even I sporadically default to it still.
- Tendency to use specials when put in the corner; this is where you want to rely on footsies and well-rounded defence, especially against Mika.
- I feel like you could've used her grounded movement a bit more often, as sometimes you kind of rooted yourself in place.

I will add however that on a core level you had a decent enough understanding what to look out for and what to do with Chun-Li. Maybe there's character-specific intricacies that I'm not picking up on, so perhaps Cindi Mayweather could elaborate on her general game plan or what's solid on her. Outside of you not covering the aerial space, all this match really boiled down to was needing just a tad more finesse, so on an intermediate level you're on the right track as far as I'm concerned.

Btw crab milk, to explain the random air kicks and air stomps. It's an execution error. It means I'm trying to do AIL and fucked up.
Yeah, I was aware. Made a ton of input errors myself; the pleasures of arcade stick growing pains.

Best part was a special guest appearance by the noodle bowl!
 
We have to gif some of the plays we both had in that match. The one where I set you up with the cross up followed by IAL and a throw I was like "YES EXECUTION ALL THE BALL THIS FIGHT." It should be framed in honor to show what things look like when execution and strategy is jusssst right. And damn those fire setups you put me in!
 

Whales

Banned
- Little too frequent with the sweeps there. Not particularly safe.
- Pushing buttons when they weren't in reach (by quite a margin) got you in trouble a number of times.
- Virtually no anti-airs or air-to-airs: serious shortcoming that would've made all the difference vs this player.
- Inconsistent with your punishes and hit confirms. You weren't bad at it, but a couple of opportunities (some of which you even noticed) slipped by because of your execution. This'll improve over time.
- Speaking of: grabbing in response to an unsafe attack (barring circumstantial exceptions) is an auto-pilot thing you need to kick. Easier said than done since even I sporadically default to it still.
- Tendency to use specials when put in the corner; this is where you want to rely on footsies and well-rounded defence, especially against Mika.
- I feel like you could've used her grounded movement a bit more often, as sometimes you kind of rooted yourself in place.

I will add however that on a core level you had a decent enough understanding what to look out for and what to do with Chun-Li. Maybe there's character-specific intricacies that I'm not picking up on, so perhaps Cindi Mayweather could elaborate on her general game plan or what's solid on her. Outside of you not covering the aerial space, all this match really boiled down to was needing just a tad more finesse, so on an intermediate level you're on the right track as far as I'm concerned.

Much like my Chun vs Mika match I posted earlier, it seemed like the Mika was the one jumping. Mikas tend to do that A LOT. I find air grabs to be effective. The smart Mika players don't overdo it, but the over-excited ones never learn their lesson.

Thanks a bunch for the help guys.

Yeah, I know I try to sweep too much to punish anything, I need to kick that out of my brain because it's easily punishable, I try to cr.mk or cr.lp now but I still have that bad habit of sweeping. I did improve it tho, i still need practice!

Yeah, also my AA game is probably the weakest part of my chun. I feel like once I get that down I could do much, much better. Need to use that lk way more :p. It just feels like it trades a lot and it isn't in my favor (altho, when I think about it, its way better for that to trade than get pressure by a jump in..)
 
Im in big need of some tips how to tacke lame ass Ryo as Karin, especcialy the ones that spam Hadouken and just punch me when I try to jump in..


Also best counter for the Kens spamming the uppercut thingy..
 

ACE 1991

Member
Spent most of my playing time yesterday in the training room, definitely a little more consistent now in terms of some of my execution. Anyone want to do play some battle lounge tonight, preferably over PSN so we can use voice chat?
 

markwaters

Neo Member
Im in big need of some tips how to tacke lame ass Ryo as Karin, especcialy the ones that spam Hadouken and just punch me when I try to jump in..


Also best counter for the Kens spamming the uppercut thingy..

Ryu's fireballs are not safe if you are close to him. You can punish them with cr.MK xx tenko/mujinkyaku among other things. If he's spamming at range, you just have to take your time with the approach. I believe Karin can neutralize fireballs with her v-skill. She can also neutral jump (jump straight up) over them. You can just walk forward and block a few of them if you can afford the life bar.

Don't get impatient or rush to get in. Pay attention to your opponent's patterns: do they use a specific fireball strength/speed? Do they have an obvious rhythm to them? Do they do them up close even though they're not safe? If not, do they only throw them at a specific distance? When you block/avoid a lot of fireballs, do they start to get impatient and try other things? And so on!

It may take a while for this kind of play to click, but you have to get comfortable playing other people's game before you can start to play yours. Once you close the distance, make your hits count and don't get to eager to close out the round. You don't have to hit the most optimal combo every time. Do the simple stuff if it's easier. Punish their mistakes -- even if it's just a throw or a sweep to start with. Use st.MK to tag them because it's amazing. Actual Karin players can help you with move-specific stuff, but the takeaway is to be patient and don't give them too much space!

As far as uppercuts/reversals go, you just have to get a feel for your opponent and when you think they might try to wake up/interrupt uppercut you. You get a crush counter if you avoid or block it, and you have all the time in the world to punish it when they come back down from it, so it's a huge risk for the opponent unless they are planning to blow v-trigger. If they're interrupting your attacks with uppercuts, just stop your strings early and punish them for it. Spamming reversals is not a good strategy in this game, but you still have to respect the possibility against opponents who are willing to risk it.

I hope this helps. It's pretty common to feel "lost" when you've just begun, just know that you will start to understand how the game flows and how to respond to specific situations like fireball spam as you play more!
 

pizzacat

Banned
Anyone up for some beginner matches?
CFN is NovumVeritas

Not a whole lot I can add since I'm not familiar with Laura all that much, but I'll mention some basic pointers. Against Nash for example, a character who doesn't have much in the way of any wake-up reversal, you exactly pressure him with meaties, command grabs, electricity set-ups, neutral jump conditioning and so forth. He can attempt to escape with V-Trigger of course, but even before that I hadn't noticed much of it. Doesn't work as effective vs someone with a Shoryuken-like special move in their repertoire, so look into who you can and cannot in this type of scenario. In between both the Ryu and the Nash fight when they were throwing out their respective projectiles, I haven't really seen you make sufficient attempts to fish for an EX Elbow Bash opening; it covers a fair distance and it has one hit of armor, so it'd be good for closing the gap (with added benefits) against predictable patterns. Not much in the way of air control coming from you either; this is something any character in the game can establish, albeit at varying degrees of efficiency. Find out what her anti-air normals or air-to-air options are in others words. Some uncertainty in your punishes as well, looking at (for example) how EX Sonic Scythe only suffered a standard grab in retaliation.

Two additional bad habits I noticed: you liked to jump forwards a lot to avoid a Sonic Boom or Hadoken. This is okay when you're within safe jump distance, but the Ryu counter-acted accordingly and the further you get, the more often more experienced players will anti-air you. As someone like Laura, either neutral jump over them to lower the risk or be more patient. You showed some of the latter already, which is good, but you lacked forward-moving pressure like the one video example I linked in my Birdie post earlier. This is essential to any character with a variety of command grabs. The second one being you generally throwing out unsafe attacks willy-nilly, like Laura's lunging overhead kick. Either use those less often or practice spacing them to the point only the tip connects for if the opponent blocks.

-
Yea I've been doing lots of wake up practices into doing something like the command grab instead of a regular grab. Also been practicing doing the motion while the dummy blocks my jabs, that seems safe no? I'm new to grapplers so I'm grasping little by little

With pressure I felt so bad with that Nash game because I had him on the ropes but did nothing for the stun and gave him breathing room, so I gotta work on that too

And the overhead kicks were more execution errors for dashes since they are the same v skill button. I try not to do it all unless I'm going for a crush counter

All in all thanks for the tips
 

McNum

Member
One thing I've learned as a newbie Karin player is that Ressenha (qcb+P) is apparently lower body fireball immune. But it's also terribly unsafe on block, so if you're late with it, you will hurt. But done clean and he can't do anything about it since he's still recovering from the Hadoken. The danger of Ressenha is becoming addicted to it. Don't do that, as it is a terribly unsafe move.

Also of note, though it costs meter. Her command dash (qcf+K) is fireball immune in its EX from. So qcf+KK and you're in Ryu's face just as he finishes saying "-ken!" I doubt this is worth it in most cases, but remember it as an option.
 
Man, I gotta say, playing a few times with gaffers helped significantly, and all the pointers given out as well. So far I've won 7 games straight in ranked :)

The Birdie match is a classic example of how you defeated yourself. The reason why I'm stating this is because the Birdie... wasn't doing much in the grand scheme of things. He wasn't going on the offensive, he wasn't making the most out of V-Skills or V-Trigger, he didn't particularly defend much either up until Round 3 either so the large brunt of the damage he dished out came from you being rather haphazard at inopportune moments. It's good that you exercised some caution and tried to poke away at him with your longer range normals, some whiff punishes in places even, but eventually you started throwing out random special moves for the sake of it from quite a distance away from him. It would've benefited you if you persisted with a grounded approach until the Birdie shows that he's aware how to get around this, which he only did during the third round with the anti-airs he used. I recognize that some Spiral Arrow instances were attempts at hit confirms, which is fine, but tighten up the execution if you're confident you can open someone up. Bottom line: you sometimes had the right idea on what fundamental strategy to follow, but you didn't notice the player weaknesses. And with regards to character weaknesses: Birdie is rather vulnerable to continuous up-close pressure for a multitude of reasons. Slow V-Reversal, no special move he can use as a proper reversal either, slower normals than Cammy and his command grabs aren't impressive. Chains are also unsafe.

Regarding the Cammy mirror match: even though you won, you weren't particularly dangerous. You kind of just threw special moves on a whim (even blew all your Super meter!) which only worked because the other Cammy's defense was lousy, and you respected her personal space far too much by walking back as much as you did. Look up some match videos of professional players to see how they mount offensive pressure, take notes of what they inflict on others and gradually practice whatever fundamentals you pick up on. Don't worry about combos too much outside of basic punishes: it's more important you understand how a fight out to flow with a character like Cammy. Some re-occurring shortcomings as some of the videos above you as well, so be sure to read those for more concrete pointers.
Thanks for the detailed critique :)

Yeah, so I took your advice and actually put it in my mind to not use specials while I fight, that way I teach myself to not do so on whim. I was specifically working on my footsies. Now, I am able to pull off simple combos (when necessary) that keep me on the offensive. It has worked out spectacularly so far. I'm starting to train on incorporating the more complex combos. I've also been watching kbrad, to see how he plays his cammy, it's only SFIV vids as far as I can tell, but I assume the overall concept is the same when it comes to cammy.
 
Cool guys thanks alot for answers.

Ye its rather overwelming but I feel like its atleast getting better. I am winning like 50/50 on the low rank vs random characters, and getting better vs Ken too. So many Ryos tho, and its hard to find a flow vs them couse the fireballs stress me to mistakes.

If only they make so you can "preview" moves in training to make it easier to figure out what move to use and when.. I cant figure out wich move it is thats like a burning jumping jab:/

I need to find some nice Karin players to study to, but right now I prefer just keeping it simple and not trying to add to much complicated combos. Focusing on parrying and finding out when to counter with grips/low kicks that works ok vs those not throwing projectiles.
 

McNum

Member
Let me share with you one quick Karin newbie mistake that you shouldn't do. Never, ever do a second cr. MK after the first one is blocked. I just got Shinkuu Hadoken'd by a Ryu who read that. That hurt!
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Would you want to do this with a bit of walking followed by a backlash at the last moment?
There are two elements.

1) You're trying to bait a reaction.
2) You still need to be in range to effectively punish their reaction.

So backdashing isn't an ideal solution since you can't whiff punish from there.

Throw ranges are fairly small in SFV anyway, so if you're still inside sweep range but not standing on top of them, they really can't do anything throw related.

But the key is their reaction. You don't really have to plan ahead. You do as little as possible and wait for them to hang themselves. If you bait out a DP, you have a long time to react and punish hard. If they whiff a throw, they're in trouble too.

If they hold off doing stuff, just resume your pokes/general pressure games etc.

The only time you really want to commit to something is if you've seen a consistent pattern from them on wake up. Then just do what you know will hurt them the most in that situation.

Ryu's fireballs are not safe if you are close to him. You can punish them with cr.MK xx tenko/mujinkyaku among other things. If he's spamming at range, you just have to take your time with the approach. I believe Karin can neutralize fireballs with her v-skill. She can also neutral jump (jump straight up) over them. You can just walk forward and block a few of them if you can afford the life bar.
At range, Karin can anticipate when Ryu's going to throw a FB and just qcbP through the FB to get at a would be zoner. Gotta get the timing right though or Ryu can recover and DP you.
 

Tornix

Member
Im in big need of some tips how to tacke lame ass Ryo as Karin, especcialy the ones that spam Hadouken and just punch me when I try to jump in..


Also best counter for the Kens spamming the uppercut thingy..
Adding to what others have mentioned, her Orochi (qcf+k,down+P) passes through fireballs as well. Good to do from a distance and a safer option than qcb+p, just slightly harder to react with.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
By the by, my CFN ID is markwaters if anyone wants to play! I'm on PC, and my Steam is markwaters as well.

I haven't had a lot of time to play since the game launched (most of my time logged is the game being on in the background), so I need matchup experience across the board. I'm chiefly playing Bison until Urien is released, but I'll likely mess with everyone while I wait for Urien.
 
By the by, my CFN ID is markwaters if anyone wants to play! I'm on PC, and my Steam is markwaters as well.

I haven't had a lot of time to play since the game launched (most of my time logged is the game being on in the background), so I need matchup experience across the board. I'm chiefly playing Bison until Urien is released, but I'll likely mess with everyone while I wait for Urien.

I'll add you, I'll be jumping into the game in an hr or so. We might have a good connection too...MidWestener here.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So here's my journey to Bronze with Chun:
Lots of footsies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqF6C1n7gUw

1st Match: Vs Gief. (W) 0.22 - 2:30 - This was a very black and white game
2nd Match:Vs Ken. (W) 3:02 - 5:21 - This ken was all over the place.
3rd Match: Vs R.Mika (W) 5:49 - 8:16 - When I saw that Japanese flag I freaked out. He took One round, but I managed to Squeeze through somehow.
4th Match: Vs Ryu (W) 8:37 - 10:45 - A win, but not really anything i felt good about. Based off his points he was probably just starting out.
5th Match: Vs Karin (W) 11:01 - 14:14 The lag was a bit strong in this game.
6th Match: Vs Cammy (W) 14:18 - 16:37 I was trying to bait out Cammy's Spike by getting close to her when she was down but she didn't. Still Lp'd her out of a lot of her moves though.
7th Match: Vs Nash (L) 17:04 - 21:40 I really like this match with Nash. He beat me at my own game. No flashiness, just patience, pokes and grabs. Best match of the lot imo.
8th Match: Vs Karin (W) 22:01 - 25:00 It took losing one round to figure out she was liberal with the Rassenha(SP?), so I baited it and took advantage.
9th Match: Vs Ken (W) 25:15 - end: Some Kens like to wake up with highly punishable moves. This guy/girl was one of them. So the strategy was to knock him/her down, move in close and wait for the wake up srk or tatsu...then punish. Thanks for the Bronze =D
 
Okay, I had a close match earlier that I absolutley wanted to hear from others about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyWHWhwQyJs

I included the live match to show how jittery it got in spots, followed by the replay with inputs. Some of my observations:
- I still can't help but mash sometimes... a bit of nerves, a bit of lag. Because of that bad habit/anxiety...
- I missed a few big punish opportunities. I've really got to stay calm and focused to make the opponent pay for whiffing DP or CA
- despite the mashing, I'd at least spent quite some time (too long, really) practicing hit confirms from LP but did not do that once
- I didn't figure out the opponent's grab pattern fast enough, and when I did I couldn't react properly
- I didn't finish them when I had the chance and almost gave the game away trying to bait something punishable. I wanna say the winning move was a hard read, but there's a good or better chance I just threw it out there on a wing and a prayer.
- I still have to suss out Nash's most efficient and optimized combos. The only one I hit reliably is the Rapid Punch into MK Scythe.

I'm also interested in hearing what that Necalli did right or wrong, as I haven't really played around with that character too much. He wasn't half bad, that combo into Critical Art was pretty good, and I was sure it'd kill.
You are correct with these introspective observations.

Regarding what the Necalli did wrong... He was very transparent with his intentions. His entire approach consisted out of three pillars: going for a grab as he walked or dashed towards you at close range, depending on his uppercut-esque attack as you tried to combo him and often attempting to tag you with horizontal claw swipe when more than half a screen apart. His neutral game was very lackluster and subsequently he struggled to deal with Nash's longer normals at times, which is why eventually he increased the number of haphazard jump-ins. The definition of a flowchart strategy.

Since a lot of people are putting themselves out there, I also decided to capture a few of my fights for some advice on improving my gameplay.

Laura Gameplay
https://youtu.be/w4O69rLail4

0.33 - 2:56 - Laura vs Ryu
3:20 - 6:48 - Laura Vs Vega
6:53 - 9:00 - Laura Vs Ryu
9:07 - 12:26 - Laura vs Nash


Chun-Li Gameplay
https://youtu.be/GLl7bKvC7JQ

0.06 - 3:09 - Chun Vs Rashid
3:11 - 6:02 - Chun Vs Vega
6:08 - 9:43 - Chun Vs Karin
9:50 - 13:09 - Chun Vs Jumpy Mika
Going off of the Laura games, on a fundamental level you seem to have an alright understanding on what to look for. You're trying to apply correct spacing on certain moves and you play a prudent, reactionary style against this calibre of opponents and not overextending like this services you well in the matches you provided. It was basic, but it usually worked out for you. This isn't meant to be derogatory; I'm merely stating that whenever you had the correct idea, you often didn't push your actions hard enough when the ball was in your court or your finesse wasn't quite there yet. This is something you're definitely able to refine over time though, like gradually getting closer to maximizing punishment when an obvious opening presents itself (see: no Crush Counters on whiffed SRK's against both Ryu's) as evidenced by the dexterity you displayed behind that one Critical Arts combo you performed.

However, I feel where you could stand to improve the most are the (relatively speaking) subtle elements of a match. To be more concrete, the overall behind-the-scenes decision-making that goes into fighting someone. My impression after that set was that you didn't really formulate a long-term gameplan and as a result, I feel a certain degree of strategy didn't really portray itself. Missing match-up experience, not knowing Laura's capabilities well enough yet, whatever reason it may be. Key examples I can give you:

- sitting on resources for a while from either the V-Meter or the CA / EX meter, limiting your options as you wait for a golden opportunity.
- working on getting Vega into the corner and then... letting him breathe. This occurred during Chun-Li vs Rashid too.
- utilizing Laura's electricity defensively, but not offensively (with the slower varieties) when within mix-up range.
- not pro-actively getting around fireballs; forward-jumping over them doesn't count since that can leave you vulnerable.​

What I'm essentially getting at is: evaluate the strengths of Laura's arsenal. When can you take advantage of Laura's V-Trigger, beyond that one Critical Arts combo? How can she aggressively bypass her enemy's? For example: wielding her EX Elbow to counter-act fireballs from approximately half-screen! What are her choices to deal with airborne shenanigans like Vega's walldives? There's more to it, but you get the idea. Once you start dissecting this on a character-to-character basis, then you can begin figuring out on how to use your meters to secure or retain an advantage, how to exploit the downsides to a certain player's mannerisms et cetera. Meta objectives, separate from execution-oriented challenges. Once you have a more solidified idea of what the other player likely wants to do, this will in turn also have an effect on improving your defense, which had some glaring holes in it too like neglecting to anti-air on the ground with just her normals.

There's some overlap of the above in the first two Chun-Li matches I've seen as well, so hopefully this mumbo-jumbo is helpful between both your characters.
 

weepy

Member
Hey you guys, I have three things I want to ask that would potentially help me come EVO (so help me God, I'm participating...):

1. MKX: if you get hard knock down and the opponent runs up and immediately start throwing out buttons to catch you before you're able to quick rise (im looking at you Cassie), what are some meterless options to get you out of that pressure?

2. SF5: I'm learning Rashid and I wanna know what's his BnBs.

3. I'm not a lab-monster, I can't spend hours in practice settings up frame traps, optimal combos and defending against strings. I'm a "trial-by-fire" type of person. Is there any benefits to playing off-the -cuff?
 
Going off of the Laura games, on a fundamental level you seem to have an alright understanding on what to look for. You're trying to apply correct spacing on certain moves and you play a prudent, reactionary style against this calibre of opponents and not overextending like this services you well in the matches you provided. It was basic, but it usually worked out for you. This isn't meant to be derogatory; I'm merely stating that whenever you had the correct idea, you often didn't push your actions hard enough when the ball was in your court or your finesse wasn't quite there yet. This is something you're definitely able to refine over time though, like gradually getting closer to maximizing punishment when an obvious opening presents itself (see: no Crush Counters on whiffed SRK's against both Ryu's) as evidenced by the dexterity you displayed behind that one Critical Arts combo you performed.

However, I feel where you could stand to improve the most are the (relatively speaking) subtle elements of a match. To be more concrete, the overall behind-the-scenes decision-making that goes into fighting someone. My impression after that set was that you didn't really formulate a long-term gameplan and as a result, I feel a certain degree of strategy didn't really portray itself. Missing match-up experience, not knowing Laura's capabilities well enough yet, whatever reason it may be. Key examples I can give you:

- sitting on resources for a while from either the V-Meter or the CA / EX meter, limiting your options as you wait for a golden opportunity.
- working on getting Vega into the corner and then... letting him breathe. This occurred during Chun-Li vs Rashid too.
- utilizing Laura's electricity defensively, but not offensively (with the slower varieties) when within mix-up range.
- not pro-actively getting around fireballs; forward-jumping over them doesn't count since that can leave you vulnerable.​

What I'm essentially getting at is: evaluate the strengths of Laura's arsenal. When can you take advantage of Laura's V-Trigger, beyond that one Critical Arts combo? How can she aggressively bypass her enemy's? For example: wielding her EX Elbow to counter-act fireballs from approximately half-screen! What are her choices to deal with airborne shenanigans like Vega's walldives? There's more to it, but you get the idea. Once you start dissecting this on a character-to-character basis, then you can begin figuring out on how to use your meters to secure or retain an advantage, how to exploit the downsides to a certain player's mannerisms et cetera. Meta objectives, separate from execution-oriented challenges. Once you have a more solidified idea of what the other player likely wants to do, this will in turn also have an effect on improving your defense, which had some glaring holes in it too like neglecting to anti-air on the ground with just her normals.

There's some overlap of the above in the first two Chun-Li matches I've seen as well, so hopefully this mumbo-jumbo is helpful between both your characters.

Thanks man. That's some solid advice. I'll definitely work on your suggestions. For the last hour I've been working on my crush counters with cpu opponents. Checking on where I can best apply them and how to follow up on them. I need to capitalize on that stuff. Typically, when I get a crush counter, it comes out of nowhere and I have trouble reacting to it fast enough.

I'm also trying to get a bit more aggressive with the two characters. I've noticed most of my games are dull and defensive. I've become the player I hate lol
 
A little visual aid re: the shimmy discussion from the last page

hlnhqg.gif


She only did this set-up twice in throughout the whole match, and I took the bait hook, line and sinker. She ended up winning that round largely thanks to the position that put me in afterwards.
 
After watching a few vids with Mikas in them plus fighting a few online, it looks like a lot of them don't seem to know that Charged Roundhouse/HK is one of Mika's best approach options. It's +2 on hit and has a fairly good range so even if they block it, it's very much Mika's game (to be honest you usually go in expecting it to be blocked :p ) As an additional bonus it also has counter crush properties. Just don't miss with it completely or you'll be vulnerable :p
Once you're in with Charged roundhouse the mindgames begin. Off the +2 you can easily begin the standard mika combo (lk -> mp -> medium or EX peach shooter) to catch anyone who tries to jab out or stop blocking for any reason (though you should avoid dong the shooter if the first two hits get blocked as it's massively unsafe on block) or, if they're already conditioned to block you can begin messing with them by doing command grabs after the charged rounhouse instead :D
In the fairly uncommon situation you come across someone clued up enough to start smacking you out of charged round-house you can fake them out with uncharged ones to keep them guessing and peach shooter, while unsafe on block, can plow through most things that would stop the roundhouse.

I've seen way too many Mikas trying to follow up passion press (aka irish whip) with cr.HP -> command grab (usually brimstone because it keeps the opponent in the corner) but this isn't a true combo so it's not really a great idea. It might work on people who don't know any better but in any mika mirror I can and will jump as soon as I see the cr.HP connect, leading to no extra damage and either me punishing them or just escaping the corner. An inescapable follow-up that I use instead is forward+HP -> hard wingless airplane. This one is at least guaranteed :p You can also do charged roundhouse into wingless as well.

Crouching light kick is mika's fastest poke to still have pretty darn good range, coming out in a mere 4 frames so I'm surprised I don't see it used more often. For better range, her medium kick is probably the furthest reaching outside of a charged roundhouse of course and you can hold forward to extend the range a bit, but it's not super safe on block so don't get too close with it.
For 'get off me' her standing and crouching jab come out at a speedy 3 frames and ex peach shooter has a point of armour with 5 frame startup, though there's no shame in blocking too obviously and v-reversal is always a choice too if you need to kill someone's momentum :3 It's worth noting that you can stuff a surprising amount of things with Mika's standing jab despite the priority system and you can do lp -> lp -> light peach shooter as a lil combo too.

For fireball slingers, mika has plenty of tools to dig through whether just simply sliding under them (my favourite option), medium peach shooter over the top of them, ex-peach shooter right through them or, if you're a decent distance away, using the mic shout's one point of armour to stop one and then hitting the second one with the thrown mic. Honestly, unless you're going for a light kick cross-up into the standard mika combo or something like that, there's not many reasons to jump towards an opponent with our favourite rainbow wrestler :p

Also, mika's slide is horrifically unsafe on block so it should never be used on someone who isn't already locked into an attack like a fireball or you know will be desperately trying something the slide can stuff when they get up.

Not sure if any Mika players will read this, but those are just my observations so far :3
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Is there a trick to hitting links? Like I could never do 1f links in 4 and I can't do 3f links now in 5. Granted I have the worst execution in history, but I'm just hoping there is some technique or trick to this and it's not just my useless ass hands failing me again.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Hey you guys, I have three things I want to ask that would potentially help me come EVO (so help me God, I'm participating...):

1. MKX: if you get hard knock down and the opponent runs up and immediately start throwing out buttons to catch you before you're able to quick rise (im looking at you Cassie), what are some meterless options to get you out of that pressure?
Depends on the character. Some just gotta block smart and wait it out.

2. SF5: I'm learning Rashid and I wanna know what's his BnBs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu6iUrn9HIg

3. I'm not a lab-monster, I can't spend hours in practice settings up frame traps, optimal combos and defending against strings. I'm a "trial-by-fire" type of person. Is there any benefits to playing off-the -cuff?
You can get to the same place either way. (That's how I tend to do it since training bores me.) Looking at the frame data and doing some labbing can help shorten that learning curve however.

If you're short on time, all the more reason to make the practice count as much as possible.

That said, max damage isn't as important as consistent damage.
 

vocab

Member
Is there a trick to hitting links? Like I could never do 1f links in 4 and I can't do 3f links now in 5. Granted I have the worst execution in history, but I'm just hoping there is some technique or trick to this and it's not just my useless ass hands failing me again.

Practice, but pay attention to when the animation actually ends. Set the dummy to block after the first attack. If you input the link too early it wont come out, and too late, and the dummy will block.
 
Okay, woke up, it's 7 in the morning, and I am at page 331 of this thread. Which means there's about 25 pages to read up on. I switched to Ryu for a little time, and finished watching the "Official Character Guide for Ryu", so I know his basics but yet my brain decides to freeze in an actual match. I got five casual online matches with him, lost them all, so I decided to share my fourth fight on my Youtube. I know I need to defend more, yet I think I'm getting better at this aspect, and need to be a little more patient. Please give feedback.

On another note, I just got my FIRST EVER WIN IN A STREET FIGHTER game ever. Any Street Fighter game. It was a casual online match, and I could see I were up against a super scrub but whatever, I take the win! And my first win at that. This time I were playing Charlie Nash, and I know I didn't use any meter in this match, but do you have any other feedback I can take with me? I shared that video on my Youtube here.

I can feel that I am not hitting the commands right sometimes. When I consistently do a light punch, it's because I'm trying to do a grab. If I'm punching downward, it's because I tried do a CA. And failed at both. Also, I think it'll help me, if I invest in a Fighting Commander 4, especially for those v-reversals.

Anyway, FIRST EVER WIN EVER!!!
There's only one round for the Ryu fight, but a couple of things that stook out to me:

- you threw a fireball as soon as the round began. Evidently, unsafe range because all it takes is a simple jump-in for a sizeable punish.
- watch this video to learn how one should bolster their defense if you haven't already.
- you regularly used Ryu's fierce kick sweep, often at an unsafe distance. Be more mindful about the spacing.​

Concerning the Nash match:

- While most matches will be more fast-paced than this, you did good on playing a reactionary game vs your opponent. Good mentality to have at low skill levels.
- Little too eager with the button presses there. Often I'd see you push jab multiple times over, including when they were out of range. Grab also would not have landed, usually.
- Related to this: unrefined spacing also seen in your other video persists here with longer distance normals at point-blank. However! You were more on-point with this in the second round.
- Using your forward and backward dashes for movement is a good habit to have, regardless of being a tad overzealous with it here.
- Keeping your CA attempts in mind; don't do them raw. Do so with a goal in mind. Extending a combo with them, fishing for an enemy fireball since Nash's goes through them, ...​

That's about all the precise feedback I can give at first glance. Outside of that, practice core fundamentals like anti-airing, learning to execute BnB combos, knowing how to punish unsafe moves, familiarizing yourself with projectile strategies et cetera.

One of my favorite fights. So clutch and so close! Critique away. I am Ken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK2D4mhgEHY&feature=youtu.be

  • I jump too damn much. I blame that the SKRs here are horrid except a few chars. SRKs actually trade in some ocasions. I should use VSkill more
  • Use Plasma after c. Forward to get more damage. Lost chances there
  • I still don't find many Lauras but she has decent normals. I guess Tatsu + VSkills to get near will do. Her Anti Air is very good
  • Could anyone explain the crash counter mechanic?
My wins are now more tan my losses, and I'm proud, I am above average but no way competitive. I will aim to be in the 1000s until the noobs start dropping and the killers stay
First off: in case you hadn't noticed before, I provided some feedback on your previous video that is still largely valid here. Capcom also pushed out a Ken guide today to help bring your fundamentals up to snuff.

How Crush Counters work is fairly simple: if you use one of your moves that applies that state and you connect one of your moves as the enemy tries to hit you back, it'll trigger this since it's a fancier, more punishing counter-hit. Doing so with a sweep causes a hard knockdown (meaning one cannot quick-rise) and whiffed / blocked SRK-esque moves are innately susceptible to Crush Counter status until the animation fully recovers. Advanced players use their moves as a frame trap a lot because of Street Fighter V's normal priority system. Another perk from connecting a Crush Counter is gaining some V-Meter per successful one.

Here are two ranked matches from earlier today, both vs. Ken

Win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmhPpopN-6Y

Loss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOZnEp0ubJs

My execution is still really poor. I work on it in training constantly, and I see improvement but it's still not good enough. Are there any new cammy vids out there? I'm only finding beta stuff.
You tend to throw out specials / your V-Skill too often when you wanted to move forward. The Ken players weren't particularly consistent at punishing it, but as a whole it's very unsafe to do. Cammy has fast walking speed; utilize it if you want to inch closer to your opponent! Playing the grounded game (plus naturally anti-air correctly) is very important to Street Fighter V and Cammy has these bases covered in between her movement, having some good range to certain normals like standing MK, anti-fireball techniques and an SRK-esque move for air control. Only jump when you really need to in order to avoid something or when you want to attempt cross-ups; showing restraint and reacting to what other players do at this skill level will reap its benefits.

How you wielded V-Trigger was also rather random, as you fell in the same pitfall as many other new Cammy players do by blowing their load immediately with a Spiral Arrow upon activation, followed by a Cannon Spike even when the first half is blocked. Sit on it for a bit, try to hit confirm or look for an opening if you're confident about opening someone up with a Cannon Strike too and alternatively, fish for a standard combo where you can squeeze in the activation before following up with a special move. Speaking of pulling out the V-Trigger: at one point you did so as one of the Ken's jumped in on you, which isn't necessarily a bad habit. If your intention here was to increase the time window to anti-air him with a Cannon Spike, then that's great, but if it honestly didn't cross your mind then be more aware about the gap between both players.

Outside of that you need to remain diligent about working on your execution, but you already acknowledged that.

Cobelcog has a solid Cammy and I believe Poongko plays her as well. Should look into his CFN replays if there aren't a whole lot of YouTube matches of him. I also commented on one of your previous posts here, and there's Capcom's Cammy guide for some more instructions for a foundation.
 

weepy

Member
Depends on the character. Some just gotta block smart and wait it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu6iUrn9HIg


You can get to the same place either way. (That's how I tend to do it since training bores me.) Looking at the frame data and doing some labbing can help shorten that learning curve however.

If you're short on time, all the more reason to make the practice count as much as possible.

That said, max damage isn't as important as consistent damage.

Thanks for the info Fresh, I'll definitely check it out. To be more specific to question one, I mainly use Unbreakable Subzero and I've noticed that if I play another Subby they'll use slide to get me off of them, so I guess that's an option. Also, unless it's EX, his ice-bomb is too slow on start-up to do anything against wake-up pressure too. If there's any more tips I'm all ears.
 

Torpy

Neo Member
Would love some advice on dealing with stomp pressure from necalli as anyone really but especially mika. With ryu I seem to be able to dp , but as mike i can't figure it out. I keep getting beat by st.HP xx heavy stomp and I can't seem to punish it.

I can upload some matches tomorrow morning if it will help!
 

JambiBum

Member
So as a Cammy player, what can I do when someone is just blocking low most of the time besides throw since she doesn't have an overhead? In matches where people do that I basically just hit a wall and end up having execution errors at some point which cause me to lose the match.
 

jeemer

Member
So as a Cammy player, what can I do when someone is just blocking low most of the time besides throw since she doesn't have an overhead? In matches where people do that I basically just hit a wall and end up having execution errors at some point which cause me to lose the match.

besides throw? go for a crossup, or neutral jump and throw something out on the way down. personally i like to really pester them with throws and tick throws until they break the habit... or at least despise me.
 
Hey you guys, I have three things I want to ask that would potentially help me come EVO (so help me God, I'm participating...):

3. I'm not a lab-monster, I can't spend hours in practice settings up frame traps, optimal combos and defending against strings. I'm a "trial-by-fire" type of person. Is there any benefits to playing off-the -cuff?
A universal rule of thumb regarding Training Mode: it's not mandatory to grind it out, fussing over frame numbers and the like, but it's in your best interest to still take full advantage of its features to help hone basic skills. Always enter Training Mode with a clear-cut purpose in the back of your head after wrapping up a fight. Uncertain what the best distances are for your character to anti-air? Go through a simple drill like this to get into the swing of it. Was there a particular move or strategy that was very problematic for you in a match you just won or lost? Immediately hop on and figure out ways to nip it in the bud or punish on block where applicable. Frame data is especially helpful for the latter to speed up examining this. Uncomfortable doing a particular combo in specific circumstances? Perform a 10-minute exercise session every now and then dedicated to this on both sides to grow muscle memory. Use training mode as a tool to figure out at which distances you can play the footsies game against x or y character with the moves you have in your arsenal, and many more other possibilities.

Write down notes if need be if you think you're going to forget over time, but keep it brief in between matches as to not your burn yourself out on the learning process.
 
You tend to throw out specials / your V-Skill too often when you wanted to move forward. The Ken players weren't particularly consistent at punishing it, but as a whole it's very unsafe to do. Cammy has fast walking speed; utilize it if you want to inch closer to your opponent! Playing the grounded game (plus naturally anti-air correctly) is very important to Street Fighter V and Cammy has these bases covered in between her movement, having some good range to certain normals like standing MK, anti-fireball techniques and an SRK-esque move for air control. Only jump when you really need to in order to avoid something or when you want to attempt cross-ups; showing restraint and reacting to what other players do at this skill level will reap its benefits.

How you wielded V-Trigger was also rather random, as you fell in the same pitfall as many other new Cammy players do by blowing their load immediately with a Spiral Arrow upon activation, followed by a Cannon Spike even when the first half is blocked. Sit on it for a bit, try to hit confirm or look for an opening if you're confident about opening someone up with a Cannon Strike too and alternatively, fish for a standard combo where you can squeeze in the activation before following up with a special move. Speaking of pulling out the V-Trigger: at one point you did so as one of the Ken's jumped in on you, which isn't necessarily a bad habit. If your intention here was to increase the time window to anti-air him with a Cannon Spike, then that's great, but if it honestly didn't cross your mind then be more aware about the gap between both players.

Outside of that you need to remain diligent about working on your execution, but you already acknowledged that.

Cobelcog has a solid Cammy and I believe Poongko plays her as well. Should look into his CFN replays if there aren't a whole lot of YouTube matches of him. I also commented on one of your previous posts here, and there's Capcom's Cammy guide for some more instructions for a foundation.
Thanks for this, I'm gonna watch the crap out of these vids. And I was trying to increase the time window but I blow it so often I was starting to wonder if it was worth it or even safe to do. In a way I suppose it's good to know its yet another issue with execution. Also I watched the footsies video before those matches and I'm trying that out and failing for the most part but I wonder if im thinking to much about it now as I fight.

Thanks again

Anyone know how much data matchmaking uses? I'm coming up close to my data cap unfortunately.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Practice, but pay attention to when the animation actually ends. Set the dummy to block after the first attack. If you input the link too early it wont come out, and too late, and the dummy will block.

I spent 2 hours yesterday while the servers were down trying to do Necalli's HP->M.Stomp->cr.MP link like that, I landed it 3 times.

I just have to accept that I'll never get beyond my current level execution wise and stick to braindead characters.
 

ACE 1991

Member
So what are the best ways deal with super agressive play as Ryu? I played Vaudeville Villain last night (who has gotten way better than the last time we had played, while I, sadly, have not!) and got totally destroyed by his high pressure Cammy. I'm having a real issue of leaving lots of damage on the table when there are openings.
 
So what are the best ways deal with super agressive play as Ryu? I played Vaudeville Villain last night (who has gotten way better than the last time we had played, while I, sadly, have not!) and got totally destroyed by his high pressure Cammy. I'm having a real issue of leaving lots of damage on the table when there are openings.

The best way to kill an aggressive player that makes too many mistakes is to punish those mistakes and make that person want to stop making those same mistakes and limit their game in the process so you can begin your own offense. Hit up Practice mode and find ways to punish certain situations.
 
It seems I didnt even know about qcb earlier so it really opened up loads of new attacks and feels like I can perform better now. It helped me to finnaly push up to bronze league and against Ryu today I am 4-3 so far, an improvement compared to my earlier history win like a 10% win rate or so lol. A little unconfortable to execute Oroshi tho.

Think its time to start to watch my own replays of losses to see where my biggest mistakes happens. Probably using cr hk to much..
 

Wallach

Member
I spent 2 hours yesterday while the servers were down trying to do Necalli's HP->M.Stomp->cr.MP link like that, I landed it 3 times.

I just have to accept that I'll never get beyond my current level execution wise and stick to braindead characters.

So you are getting the cr.HP xx MK Valiant, but can't get the cr.MP yeah? To figure out which direction you are mis-timing you just need to pay attention to what actually happens when you do this combo; does the cr.MP come out, but gets blocked (or whiffs)? That means you are doing the cr.MP too late and need to slowly start hitting the cr.MP sooner after MK Valiant. If the cr.MP never comes out after MK Valiant, it means your cr.MP input was too early and you weren't recovered from MK Valiant (which in this game means you hit cr.MP more than 3 frames before recovery ended). So you just need to wait a bit longer after doing MK Valiant before doing the cr.MP.

Playing a lot of Necalli myself my guess is you are hitting the cr.MP too soon rather than too late. In general I suggest trying to hit the button earlier rather than later to take advantage of the input buffer, and then continuing to delay the cr.MP after MK Valiant more and more until it comes out.

When you do succeed in getting cr.HP xx MK Valiant, cr.MP to combo, you just need to continue trying to repeat that input cadence. "Muscle memory" is all about repetition, but you need to find the timing that works first.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Thanks for the info Fresh, I'll definitely check it out. To be more specific to question one, I mainly use Unbreakable Subzero and I've noticed that if I play another Subby they'll use slide to get me off of them, so I guess that's an option. Also, unless it's EX, his ice-bomb is too slow on start-up to do anything against wake-up pressure too. If there's any more tips I'm all ears.

Unbreakable doesn't have a ton of options. You can try slide. If they're trying to block that, wake up throwing. Or just stay down to throw off their timing.
 
So what are the best ways deal with super agressive play as Ryu? I played Vaudeville Villain last night (who has gotten way better than the last time we had played, while I, sadly, have not!) and got totally destroyed by his high pressure Cammy. I'm having a real issue of leaving lots of damage on the table when there are openings.

Ha, thanks for the compliment! Unfortunately I did get a little cocky and got bodied today by some M. Bisons. They worked me pretty hard. Still have a long way to go before I wreck Daigo Evo 2016 :3
 

Xhorder

Member
Okay this just feels really good. I had my own Daigo moment where I managed to parry a V-trigger electric hadouken successfully. After that I managed to win both rounds (after losing the first one). This feels good! :)
 

McNum

Member
That feeling when you land a practiced detail from Training Mode in a live match and go on to win it by a hair. It may just be a basic Crush Counter setup. But it's mine now. I hit it in a real match, it's no longer a theoretical thing I just do in Training. It's proven!

In related news: "Savoring the Win Streak" Achievement earned! (That's three ranked wins in a row.)

My lab time has been well spent. I feel totally in control. I know my limits, go for a few risky moves to keep the opponent on their toes, but... I need to record and upload these replays as well as my loss. I need to know what I'm doing right. As far as I can tell, I am just spacing, blocking, and punishing. I have little to no tech of note, just a 200 damage setup for Crush Counters and Ressenha on fireballs. None of the combos I've tried out are online safe yet.

I feel like I owe someone an apology. Karin... I'm sorry I doubted your awesomeness. I get it now, you're a pressuring footsie character. And I was playing you as a mid-range zoner. My mistake, it won't happen again.

And to this thread. Thank you for your help so far, I never would have dared hope I'd get the 3-Streak achievement just a week after launch. Heck, I didn't think I'd get it at all! But the fight has just begun. There are many opponents out of my league still. I look forward to fighting them now.
 

vocab

Member
I spent 2 hours yesterday while the servers were down trying to do Necalli's HP->M.Stomp->cr.MP link like that, I landed it 3 times.

I just have to accept that I'll never get beyond my current level execution wise and stick to braindead characters.
That one has an issue where it pushes the opponent back so the cr mp whiffs.
 
I love watching fighting games but man do I suck at them. I recently picked up Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and I'm doing alright for most matches, but I can't for the life of me beat Galactus. The first stage I can normally pass, but I'm finding Galactus himself almost impossible. The biggest issue is I can't reliably high jump. I don't know why, but it feels like it only works when it wants to, and I'm constantly getting grabbed by him. And his chip damage is so crazy even if I'm doing well, his beam spam will still kill me.
And this is on Easy! Which just makes me want to quit even more, lol.

Any tips?

And as an aside, why do so many fighting games have fucked up last bosses? What's the goal there? All it does is make me hate the game even if the normal fights are a lot of fun.
 
I love watching fighting games but man do I suck at them. I recently picked up Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and I'm doing alright for most matches, but I can't for the life of me beat Galactus. The first stage I can normally pass, but I'm finding Galactus himself almost impossible. The biggest issue is I can't reliably high jump. I don't know why, but it feels like it only works when it wants to, and I'm constantly getting grabbed by him. And his chip damage is so crazy even if I'm doing well, his beam spam will still kill me.
And this is on Easy! Which just makes me want to quit even more, lol.

Any tips?

And as an aside, why do so many fighting games have fucked up last bosses? What's the goal there? All it does is make me hate the game even if the normal fights are a lot of fun.

I'm a pad player, so if you use stick, I can't really help. To high jump, there are some options that work well for me. Hold the Launch button after starting your combo. Holding it down will have your character automatically high jump. Otherwise, the other way I do it is by sliding my thumb from down to up quickly. Its usually easier and more successful than just tapping down and then tapping up.
Also, if you're worried about blisters, you can just throw a shirt/ piece of cloth over the pad and do it.
 

TheOGB

Banned
You are correct with these introspective observations.

Regarding what the Necalli did wrong... He was very transparent with his intentions. His entire approach consisted out of three pillars: going for a grab as he walked or dashed towards you at close range, depending on his uppercut-esque attack as you tried to combo him and often attempting to tag you with horizontal claw swipe when more than half a screen apart. His neutral game was very lackluster and subsequently he struggled to deal with Nash's longer normals at times, which is why eventually he increased the number of haphazard jump-ins. The definition of a flowchart strategy.
Thanks Crab, I appreciate you taking the time to give feedback on my (and nearly everyone else's) match! To me it's one thing to know what you're doing right or wrong yourself, but it's another important thing to know what the opponent is doing so you know what to keep an eye out for. I'm gonna try to pay more attention to holes in my opponents' strategies and take advantage of them sooner.
 
Okay can someone give me a hand here? I want to work on my execution because if I can't even hit a spiral arrow out of crouching or standing medium punch (some of her best pokes) then why bother?

So I think I got those, kind of. I can do them 8 out of 10 times, so that's cool. But I can't make it happen from standing medium kick (maybe her best poke?). Is it just not possible? It has to be, right?

I captured a small bit of the training:

https://youtu.be/78WyJnhH0Ag

Any ideas? At what point in the animation should I be doing the spiral arrow?
 

Producer

Member
Okay can someone give me a hand here? I want to work on my execution because if I can't even hit a spiral arrow out of crouching or standing medium punch (some of her best pokes) then why bother?

So I think I got those, kind of. I can do them 8 out of 10 times, so that's cool. But I can't make it happen from standing medium kick (maybe her best poke?). Is it just not possible? It has to be, right?

I captured a small bit of the training:

https://youtu.be/78WyJnhH0Ag

Any ideas? At what point in the animation should I be doing the spiral arrow?

sMK isnt cancelable.
 
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