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[WheelHoss1]

Don’t mean to beat a broken record but this is another game that if it even got 1440p Pro support I would be all over it

But I can’t bring myself to play it in 1080 when PC gets 2160

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Don’t mean to beat a broken record but this is another game that if it even got 1440p Pro support I would be all over it

But I can’t bring myself to play it in 1080 when PC gets 2160

Wha?

 

[WheelHoss1]

Wha?

You don’t get my position or you think it’s stupid

Big surprise

 

[Not Drake]

I don't know why people get so upset when someone points out that games do very well on Switch due to the fact it's a new system with fairly limited library. The system is far from "no games", that's a silly argument for any platform ever, but you can't deny it's easier to shine when you have a quality game, when there's little to none competition. I think it's a system's strong side right now, not a flaw. People want to play games on Switch, it's fucking fantastic. I got Wulverblade yesterday for my Switch, because I wanted to try a brawler on the system. I wouldn't really bother with it if it released on, let's say, Vita or PC (it's probably on PC, isn't it?).

 

[Fiendcode]

Care to provide where you made that count ?

Nintendo Game Store

PlayStation Store

 

[GhostTrick]

Nintendo Game Store

PlayStation Store

I edited my post.
Then again I counted around 250 new releases on PS4 so unless I miscounted...

 

[Fiendcode]

I edited my post.
Then again I counted around 250 new releases on PS4 so unless I miscounted...

You did.

The PS Store only list 869 total releases for PS4, and that includes prerelease demos, betas, split up compilations, future releases, etc. I have no idea how you counted roughly a third of all PS4 games as having released in the past 90 days, but it’s clear you’ve miscounted.

 

[Vena]

How many threads are we going to go through over this "lack of games" pissing contest?

 

[cw_sasuke]

I don't know why people get so upset when someone points out that games do very well on Switch due to the fact it's a new system with fairly limited library. The system is far from "no games", that's a silly argument for any platform ever, but you can't deny it's easier to shine when you have a quality game, when there's little to none competition. I think it's a system's strong side right now, not a flaw. People want to play games on Switch, it's fucking fantastic. I got Wulverblade yesterday for my Switch, because I wanted to try a brawler on the system. I wouldn't really bother with it if it released on, let's say, Vita or PC (it's probably on PC, isn't it?).

You can take this kind of argumentation for every success story..."game X sold only sold so well because its the first time the game hit this platforms" " game Y sold well because they spend millions for it development/marketing" game Z sold so well because no one else was releasing something that day/week" "game A sold so well because it got bundled and has exclusive first party marketing deal"

etc. the list goes on and on. Fact is this title performed well - as did many other Switch Indie titles - obv. there are multiple reasons why they do well. I just dont see the point of trying to undermine every success story with ..."but,....."

Do we really need a PS Store vs. eShop dick waving contest anytime a indie performs well on Switch ?

 

[DrGrus]

Because reviewed games is also a correct data ?
And that in any case, it still makes up for discrepancy that could happen between both platforms ?

Reviewed games is not correct data for the argument you are doing. If the number of reviewed game is a subset on the total number of games released then you cannot use the number of reviewed games to show that the sales results is due to a low number of games released.

Now I do not have a Switch but when Fiendcode states that your LTD number is off by a factor of more than 2, so the certainty you have about the data you are presenting is a little odd.

You mean 178 releases ltd? Because that’s what my eShop says right now, where are you getting 76 exactly?

 

[Rodney McKay]

You don’t get my position or you think it’s stupid

Big surprise

I think they were just pointing out your mixed metaphor (beating dead horse+sounding like a broken record) rather than making a judgement on your position.

I mean, it's obviously an understandable position to want games to support +1080p resolutions on PS4 Pro, especially less graphically intense games. Who wouldn't want that who paid extra for a PS4 Pro?

 

[GhostTrick]

You did.

Well I counted PS VR titles in the bunch. Which explains the difference. But if you remains by the pure PS4 titles, you're right in terms of number. Although I stand by what I said about competition. It's easier for Flame in the Flood to exist within the titles released in the last 3 months on Switch compared to the titles released on PS4.

You can take this kind of argumentation for every success story..."game X sold only sold so well because its the first time the game hit this platforms" " game Y sold well because they spend millions for it development/marketing" game Z sold so well because no one else was releasing something that day/week" "game A sold so well because it got bundled and has exclusive first party marketing deal"

etc. the list goes on and on. Fact is this title performed well - as did many other Switch Indie titles - obv. there are multiple reasons why they do well. I just dont see the point of trying to undermine every success story with ..."but,....."

Do we really need a PS Store vs. eShop dick waving contest anytime a indie performs well on Switch ?

We certainly wouldn't if people didn't claim it was a troll to say there's less competition on Switch. It's not about saying this isn't good news, it's about saying these statements are lacking concrete data and when they do, it's more about telling said title didn't performed too hot elsewhere.

Or basically: It's easier to outperform a game selling 5k units rather than one selling 500k units.

 

[Kangi]

You don’t get my position or you think it’s stupid

Big surprise

I don't mean to be a dead horse, but he bolded specific text for a reason.

 

[Not Drake]

You can take this kind of argumentation for every success story..."game X sold only sold so well because its the first time the game hit this platforms" " game Y sold well because they spend millions for it development/marketing" game Z sold so well because no one else was releasing something that day/week" "game A sold so well because it got bundled and has exclusive first party marketing deal"

Of course you can and I think it's true, because games are not released into a vacuum. I'd even say you can take this reasoning, flip it and explain commercial bombs with it. Smart release schedule is as important as game's quality when it comes to sales imo. And apparently when it comes to Switch, any release date is smart. Just throw your game on the system and it will probably stick (just avoid a Mario week I'd say). As I said, I believe it's a good thing.

Also for the love of God, I'm not "undermining" anyone's success. I think it's very wise for devs to release their games on the system that people want to buy them on. It's also a good business.

 

[ronpontelle]

I just bought this on Switch.

Wasn't even aware of it on PS4, but think that says more about how the Switch has reinvigorated my gaming, rather than it standing out due to numbers etc.

 

[sectionse7en]

Had no idea this was out already. Glad to see it's doing well! So many great games on Switch already.

 

[Fiendcode]

Well I counted PS VR titles in the bunch. Which explains the difference. But if you remains by the pure PS4 titles, you're right in terms of number. Although I stand by what I said about competition. It's easier for Flame in the Flood to exist within the titles released in the last 3 months on Switch compared to the titles released on PS4.

No, PSVR doesn’t explain a 130+ game discrepancy. The PS Store only lists 21 PSVR games total ltd and many are on PS4 already.

Switch and PS4 had nearly the same number of releases the last 3 months, but sure it’s totally easier on Switch with a tenth the userbase to target. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

 

[WheelHoss1]

I don't mean to be a dead horse, but he bolded specific text for a reason.

Oy

Ok you got me

 

[xrnzaaas]

Good game, I didn't play enough of it on the PS4 because I got swamped with other titles.

And that soundtrack... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3eId9Yf8pY

 

[Not Drake]

The PS Store only lists 21 PSVR games total ltd

That's like, monumentally wrong lol. Although it says more about PS Store, than anything else.

 

[cw_sasuke]

We certainly wouldn't if people didn't claim it was a troll to say there's less competition on Switch. It's not about saying this isn't good news, it's about saying these statements are lacking concrete data and when they do, it's more about telling said title didn't performed too hot elsewhere.

Or basically: It's easier to outperform a game selling 5k units rather than one selling 500k units.

This is common knowledge though....one system has been out for 6 months why others have been out for 4 years and more. I would have agreed with that in the first couple weeks as well...but especially in the last weeks there have been quite a few eShop releases per week so i dont know how much sense it makes to bring up the competition angle all the time. Its not like Switch owners can only chose between 5 games to download from the store like during launch week.

The same way you use the higher competition on those established system, you can also argue that selling well or good numbers on a system with a more than 10x as much of a installed base and non-stop sales for the PSN items and indie titles( PS4 vs. Switch) is much easier. It goes both way...now you rarely see people "excusing" good performance on PS4 software or indie titles with "but, thats obv. considering its high installed base" ....i mean its common sense and a given that the installed base will have a positive affect on the sales potential of many titles.

The fact that the higher Tier Indie titles like Golf Story, Steam World Dig 2 and StarDew Valley are performing well..in addition to smaller releases like Flame in the Flood are performing well is good news, no matter how you slice it. Things may get worse or even better in the future.

Of course you can and I think it's true, because games are not released into a vacuum. I'd even say you can take this reasoning, flip it and explain commercial bombs with it. Smart release schedule is as important as game's quality when it comes to sales imo. And apparently when it comes to Switch, any release date is smart. Just throw your game on the system and it will probably stick (just avoid a Mario week I'd say). As I said, I believe it's a good thing.

Also for the love of God, I'm not "undermining" anyone's success. I think it's very wise for devs to release their games on the system that people want to buy them on. It's also a good business.

I wasnt talking specifically about you with the undermining statement...just seems to be a thing that happens in most Indie Switch related threads. I agree with everything you posted.

 

[napata]

No, PSVR doesn’t explain a 130+ game discrepancy. The PS Store only lists 21 PSVR games total ltd and many are on PS4 already.

Switch and PS4 had nearly the same number of releases the last 3 months, but sure it’s totally easier on Switch with a tenth the userbase to target. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

That list is wrong, weirdly enough all those games on that list are also PS4 games that don't require VR.

Edit: Here's a better list. Not sure if it includes everything though.

 

[WheelHoss1]

Seriously though if the devs are out there — patch this to 4K for PS4P and XBX

Let everyone (read: privileged) see the gorgeous world you’ve created in all its maxed splendor

 

[ryushe]

etc. the list goes on and on. Fact is this title performed well - as did many other Switch Indie titles - obv. there are multiple reasons why they do well. I just dont see the point of trying to undermine every success story with ..."but,....."

Exactly. If a title does well or a dev studio is happy with the success of said title, don't we all win?

 

[DrWong]

Exactly. If a title does well or a dev studio is happy with the success of said title, don't we all win?

No, console war doesn't work like that.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

Think I might take a chance on this after all, since there is barely any word-of-mouth to go on and I've kept this game at the back of my mind ever since it was announced. Knowing it was on its way to the Switch, I should have taken advantage of the $1 Humble Bundle price to demo it and see if it's my kind of thing, but what's done is done. I like resource management—okay: I really like resource management—and while I know this is a forward-moving experience in short bursts rather than a base-building game with a towering, hideously complex item/crafting progression like Don't Starve, I don't mind the roguelike format so long as the variation over multiple attempts isn't all about reacting to random generation, and the player actually has some flexibility to change up builds/approaches/decisions between runs.

I've heard some reservations about the longevity of this game; is it that it doesn't take long to see every possible thing it can throw at you? And is the endless mode a meaningful high-score challenge, or do you readily get to a point where you can play indefinitely until you put it down from boredom? Are there records tracked in-game? I find that the thing that throws me out of games built on procedural generation (FTL, for instance, which I loved for about 10 hours but felt completely done with by that point) is that once I understand the rules governing what the generator can do, I feel like I've seen the content. Even if the content is relatively lean, though, I'm thinking it might be a good change of pace to dive into one of these survival games without any external reference or wiki and really figure all of it out myself, whereas in a game like Don't Starve (which I adored to the tune of over 100 hours), when you get to the late-game material you pretty much have to look a few things up unless you want to lose a preposterous amount of progress. I got a lot out of This War of Mine for that very reason, despite its small scale (although that was another game I dropped after about 10 hours, mainly from frustration with control issues).

I'd appreciate perspectives from those of you who have played The Flame in the Flood in case it sounds like I'm in for a big disappointment. Better dissuade me quickly before I behave like a Switch owner and pick up yet another indie game at full price purely on impulse.

 

[Macleoid]

I don't mean to be a dead horse, but he bolded specific text for a reason.

I can't see his broken record for the trees

 

[Xater]

Right now the Switch seems to be in a really good position for indie games.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I forgot about this! I'll have to pick it up...once I'm done with Golf Story and before Super Mario Odyssey comes out and destroys my life.

One thing, it's pretty dumb that the suggestion that Switch indie games are doing well because the platform is young and there's more room for games to breathe is constantly met with so much hostility. It's unequivocally true. I don't expect stories like this to be nearly as common when Switch is say 3-4 years old and has a much bigger library. If anything, this proves early on that Switch is a perfect platform for indies and developers should be taking advantage of that as quickly as possible before the library becomes more crowded.

The fact is that Switch has barely 200 games on the eshop, whereas Steam etc. have hundreds/thousands. I'm certainly finding it a lot easier to track Indie releases on the Switch than I can on Steam, but that will change and there are titles that will get drowned out. That doesn't really discredit how well the Switch is doing as a platform for indie though, like I said. Stop acting like it's some kind of attack.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I can't see his broken record for the trees

Well you can put the cart before the gift horse, but you can't make it drink.

I forgot about this! I'll have to pick it up...once I'm done with Golf Story and before Super Mario Odyssey comes out and destroys my life.

One thing, it's pretty dumb that the suggestion that Switch indie games are doing well because the platform is young and there's more room for games to breathe is constantly met with so much hostility. It's unequivocally true. I don't expect stories like this to be nearly as common when Switch is say 3-4 years old and has a much bigger library. If anything, this proves early on that Switch is a perfect platform for indies and developers should be taking advantage of that as quickly as possible before the library becomes more crowded.

The fact is that Switch has barely 200 games on the eshop, whereas Steam etc. have hundreds/thousands. I'm certainly finding it a lot easier to track Indie releases on the Switch than I can on Steam, but that will change and there are titles that will get drowned out. That doesn't really discredit how well the Switch is doing as a platform for indie though, like I said. Stop acting like it's some kind of attack.

It's never about the total number of games to date that a library has. It's about the frequency of releases. Switch owners aren't opening up the eShop every Thursday to check out the entire library. They're checking out the new releases, maybe buying one or two of them. In 3-4 years, it'll be the same thing. A handful of new indies will come out, people will check out the new releases on the eShop, and then maybe buy one or two.

Unless it's an evergreen title like Minecraft or Mario, people aren't still buying your game 3-4 years later. They've moved on to newer things.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Well you can put the cart before the gift horse, but you can't make it drink.



It's never about the total number of games to date that a library has. It's about the frequency of releases. Switch owners aren't opening up the eShop every Thursday to check out the entire library. They're checking out the new releases, maybe buying one or two of them. In 3-4 years, it'll be the same thing. A handful of new indies will come out, people will check out the new releases on the eShop, and then maybe buy one or two.

Unless it's an evergreen title like Minecraft or Mario, people aren't still buying your game 3-4 years later. They've moved on to newer things.

This is kind of what I'm saying though. It's not like steam where you could easily have 20 games release on the store a week. As you said, only a handful of titles releases each week. If/when Switch ever reaches a point where it is seeing multiple releases a week, I expect these kinds of success stories to become less frequent (but absolutely still happen). It really is a perfect device for indie titles, and stories like this are reasons why developers should embrace that ASAP before it's schedule becomes flooded.

 

[CaviarMeths]

This is kind of what I'm saying though. It's not like steam where you could easily have 20 games release on the store a week. As you said, only a handful of titles releases each week. If/when Switch ever reaches a point where it is seeing multiple releases a week, I expect these kinds of success stories to become less frequent (but absolutely still happen). It really is a perfect device for indie titles, and stories like this are reasons why developers should embrace that ASAP before it's schedule becomes flooded.

40 games have released on Switch in the last 3 weeks. 11 this week, 10 last week, 19 two weeks ago.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I forgot about this! I'll have to pick it up...once I'm done with Golf Story and before Super Mario Odyssey comes out and destroys my life.

One thing, it's pretty dumb that the suggestion that Switch indie games are doing well because the platform is young and there's more room for games to breathe is constantly met with so much hostility. It's unequivocally true. I don't expect stories like this to be nearly as common when Switch is say 3-4 years old and has a much bigger library. If anything, this proves early on that Switch is a perfect platform for indies and developers should be taking advantage of that as quickly as possible before the library becomes more crowded.

The fact is that Switch has barely 200 games on the eshop, whereas Steam etc. have hundreds/thousands. I'm certainly finding it a lot easier to track Indie releases on the Switch than I can on Steam, but that will change and there are titles that will get drowned out. That doesn't really discredit how well the Switch is doing as a platform for indie though, like I said. Stop acting like it's some kind of attack.

As said before that only one side of the coin...

The Steam or PSN market in general is much bigger than the Switch market as well - if you use the lack of competition as a argument, you also need to recognize that there are much more PS4 or Steam owners out there, Most of indie games on those systems also have had much longer time to sell and were part of multiple sales during that period. So lets not act like Switch is the only system that has advantages with positive impact on the sales potential of content...or in this case specific indie games.

Most people/gamers check out for the new content...and ever week a new Switch indie release has to compete with every game released so far and the new titles of this week. The difference is that the smaller active Switch userbase are more likely to check out indie title to begin with while i can see alot of PS/PC players not even caring about indies since their backlog is still full from dozens of PS+ titles or Humble Bundle codes.

The fact that indies are selling on Switch at full price is as very positive trend and somewhat countering the race to the bottoms we have on other eco systems right now for everything outside of the big titles.

Switch will never have the amount of AAA titles as the other systems and its graphical capabilities will it make easier for Indies to have the better looking titles on the system compared to other retailer/full priced titles...so i dont see Indie games selling worse on that system anytime soon.

You say 3-4 years from now we wont have those stories anymore...then again 3-4 years from now the Switch could be at +50-60m units sold and will likely be a 200 dollar device - i dont see the appeal for indie games slowing down anytime soon thanks to its portable nature.

Exactly. If a title does well or a dev studio is happy with the success of said title, don't we all win?

You would think so. Yeah....

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

40 games have released on Switch in the last 3 weeks. 11 this week, 10 last week, 19 two weeks ago.

*Goalposts in motion. Please do not obstruct the goalposts as they are soon to be moved*.

Spoiler

But seriously I'm looking forward to what the new downplay will be. GhostTrick got a bit shown up before lol.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Indie Devs finding success...

How can we turn this into a system war?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Where can i go to talk about the game? Because I'm curious to the reactions to the game. I know what the op is about but the main thread about this game has 80 posts, is 1.5 years old, and this thread, about switch sales, is over 4 pages long.

Any more reactions to the port? Is it improved? Why is it called 'complete'? Is it buggy like the steam reviews suggest or does complete means it was improved from it's initial release? Is it still shallow, like a few reviews suggest? Will i get Binding of Isaac vibes? Really loved that game but can't tolerate the randomness now with so many other options. But it's $15 do why not, right?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Indie Devs finding success...

How can we turn this into a system war?

We managed it!

 

[Parshias7]

There's always got to be an excuse or other reason to hand-wave away a game's success on a Nintendo platform. Because otherwise we might have to admit that the console is a viable platform for games to come out on and then we wouldn't be able to rag on people for wanting games to come to it.

Unless of course this same sort of thing happens to other platforms as well. I should be able to go find a thread about an indie game coming out around the PS4's launch with all the same arguments being made, right?

 

[ryushe]

The fact that indies are selling on Switch at full price is as very positive trend and somewhat countering the race to the bottoms we have on other eco systems right now for everything outside of the big titles.

This right here cannot be understated enough.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Edit: I was one of the many people confused by GhostTrick's wording.

 

[pretty done]

This right here cannot be understated enough.

While true, the regional thing is basically a discount applied all the time.

Stardew for 8 pesos was a steal.

 

[ryushe]

While true, the regional thing is basically a discount applied all the time.

Stardew for 8 pesos was a steal.

Yeah, but how many people outside of forums are savvy (and cheap) enough to actually take advantage of that?

 

[heringer]

Well I counted PS VR titles in the bunch. Which explains the difference. But if you remains by the pure PS4 titles, you're right in terms of number. Although I stand by what I said about competition. It's easier for Flame in the Flood to exist within the titles released in the last 3 months on Switch compared to the titles released on PS4.

Honestly, at this point you are pretty much moving the goalpost. I mean, it's obvious that there's less competition on Switch, but the titles that share most of the competition and mindshare are the recent releases, so your "competition" argument isn't nowhere near as strong as you initially thought, even if obviously is still a factor.

While true, the regional thing is basically a discount applied all the time.

Stardew for 8 pesos was a steal.

That's not really true, though. Stardew Valley and Sonic are exceptions. By and large the price variation is small from region to region.

 

[AusRoachman]

Really wish I could browse the eshop more easily , thing Is a mess , needs tons more categories then just trending and top sales . Sure they have latest releases but there is a ton of other older games that are much harder to find.

 

[Nosgotham]

Really wish I could browse the eshop more easily , thing Is a mess , needs tons more categories then just trending and top sales . Sure they have latest releases but there is a ton of other older games that are much harder to find.

how are they harder to find? just keep scrolling down the list it displays all if thrm in a very easy and fast to scroll list fron most recent to launch.

i do agree that tabs for stuff woukd be easier but its not hard to browse the entire collection at this point

 

[Phife Dawg]

This game isn't even in the charts in any of my eshops...

 

[jariw]

Really wish I could browse the eshop more easily , thing Is a mess , needs tons more categories then just trending and top sales . Sure they have latest releases but there is a ton of other older games that are much harder to find.

Search->Advanced Search->Select category.

I agree that the categories should be easily browsable from the front page, though.

 

[semiconscious]

Every indie dev should release their game on Switch. EVERY ONE.

should've been first post. of course, if they all do, than that'd kill it ...

 

[Jaded Alyx]

We don't know, but I'm not entirely sure what the point is. The data we have suggests happy developers and good sales vs expectations.

Developers say the sales smash their expectations, and sell more than they expected in half a month, in just one day..GhostTrick does his usual thing of saying "yes, but we don't have numbers, so how can we say it's much of a success?"

Every time.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

The fact that indies are selling on Switch at full price is as very positive trend and somewhat countering the race to the bottoms we have on other eco systems right now for everything outside of the big titles.

It's certainly done a lot to rescue indie games from the price perception that nothing is ever worth more than $5 (which leads to people waiting for sales/bundles, halfheartedly amassing huge backlogs, which feeds into a cycle where they absolutely won't buy anything at full price or even at a discount because they have a backlog problem). I think a lot of players, especially from the PC market, still see paying $20 for a totally polished 10-hour indie game as ludicrous. But once you take a chance on games like that on the Switch, and once the portability does its work to show you that these games will actually get played instead of sitting around (yes, even if you have a towering backlog on other platforms you own), paying full price at launch and keeping up with launches becomes normalized as a regular habit, easy to justify so long as the games are good. From what I've seen, it's not just me, and an awful lot of Switch owners feel this way. And that is very good news for the sustainability of a premium, not-mobile indie market even if overall sales volume is modest.

It probably won't last once sales and bundles get underway in earnest, say a year from now, to save some of the more overlooked and buried titles from obscurity. Games that don't have much pre-release hype and don't have the word-of-mouth momentum to hit the charts realistically only have a week or two of exposure on the eShop, especially with navigation as limited as it is. At the current pace, and with more indies eager to jump in on the gold rush, even the most active players will fall into the backlog trap, and it's the backlog that will make them stingy, a problem that compounds itself. I'm someone who has been paying full price for indies and I already see this coming, as the wish list of games filed under "No time for this now; maybe once it's on sale or when I can get together with a good co-op partner" is starting to fill out.