I'm not sure about Ico, but from what I remember many shadow of the colossus reviews mentioned frustrating controls and problems with agro AI, yet they still gave the game high scores, I suspect the same will happen with this, although I do expect it to receive a lower overall score
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The Last Guardian | TGS Hands-On Previews
- Thread starter Jawbreaker
- Start date
I'm not sure about Ico, but from what I remember many shadow of the colossus reviews mentioned frustrating controls and problems with agro AI, yet they still gave the game high scores, I suspect the same will happen with this, although I do expect it to receive a lower overall score
RichiRamjag
Member
It really sounds like they gave Trico some amazing AI from all of the impressions. Encouraging to hear.
wild wild rice
Member
Not sure I'm liking the comment from Wired about holding being an automatic thing now. Is there no more "hold to climb" mechanic? I'll miss it if so.
Omnistalgic
Member
That little guy is adorable...
I like how he struggles to pick up the bar off the door that's locked.
Think I'm gonna like this more than SotC, it's more like Ico...One of my favorite games of all time.
I like how he struggles to pick up the bar off the door that's locked.
Think I'm gonna like this more than SotC, it's more like Ico...One of my favorite games of all time.
Pretty much all of Nintendo EAD/EPD's games hold up as having fantastic controls, so that's not the case.
I cant believe that there are people were defending awkward controls in 2016, even telling that the character is purposely awkward, you can really see the blind side of some people when in other games they pick with the slightest bug or any shit they can come up too.
This game has no excuse, 8 years in development, a full price game , dont get me wrong, im excited for this game, but i wont look the other side when it comes to fundamental stuff like character movement.
This game has no excuse, 8 years in development, a full price game , dont get me wrong, im excited for this game, but i wont look the other side when it comes to fundamental stuff like character movement.
wild wild rice
Member
Sad that the Polygon thread is getting so many posts when OP took the time here to assemble a nice bunch of information.
I agree but I think they have to make it automatic for it to survive today's shitty standards.
It just reminds me of IGNs "preview" before SOTC HD released where they detailed a room full of journalists being unable to traverse the ledges before the 3rd colossus because Wander wouldn't grab the ledge automatically.
Jawbreaker
Member
Yeah, this stood out to me, too. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
jmaine_ph
Member
Headlines.
forcevapour
Banned
No issues they point out bother me. Am I the only one who never seems to have trouble with cameras in games? games famous for having bad cameras I didn't have a single problem with. Example ninja gaiden black, I controlled that camera just fine.
FWIW, the controls in Team Ico's games are certainly not the norm, but they are consistent, so there aren't any surprises. It's very different from something like Little Big Planet, which has to deal with input delay and inconsistent physics every time you jump.
It's a bit like the tank controls in the old Resident Evil games. No, they aren't to everyone's taste, but they control exactly like they should and the game never tries to throw a wrench into the works to make them more difficult than they need to be.
Could be a option to change that.
wapplew
Member
I hope they give us option for old SoTC hold to climb, maybe grip meter too.
Jawbreaker
Member
I hope so.
its because its edgy and negative. certain people want this game to fail. This thread shows its really a mixed bag so far.
Previews all sound really good.
I think Japan Studio and GenDesign really needed that extra 6 weeks to polish the game to a high sheen because everything else sounds like it's right on point.
As long as I get that Ueda emotional punch from this game and can form that bond with Trico as the kid, I'll be good.
Clunky controls I can deal with overall too (a bit used to it after Ico and SoTC really), just wish auto-cling on Trico wasn't a thing.
Was always gonna happen; like bees to a honeypot.
Gaf is always frothing at the mouth to jump on the negative bandwagon, and that's just one preview! lol
I think Japan Studio and GenDesign really needed that extra 6 weeks to polish the game to a high sheen because everything else sounds like it's right on point.
As long as I get that Ueda emotional punch from this game and can form that bond with Trico as the kid, I'll be good.
Clunky controls I can deal with overall too (a bit used to it after Ico and SoTC really), just wish auto-cling on Trico wasn't a thing.
Was always gonna happen; like bees to a honeypot.
Gaf is always frothing at the mouth to jump on the negative bandwagon, and that's just one preview! lol
More_Badass
Member
Doesnt fit this game. Hold to climb and grip was a gameplay mechanic intrinsically linked with the visuals and tone of fighting these massive beings. It's a life and death struggle, you're clinging on for dear life as they try to fling you off
Here, the massive beast is your friend. You don't need to desperately cling on to it. It wants to help and protect you, not wildly shake you off. You can let go, relax around it
It's as much a narrative-driven change as it is a control scheme one
Brat-Sampson
Member
Clickbait ¯\_(ツ
_/¯I mean come on now, some people have been waiting 10 years to hate on this game. Maybe it's better to keep this topic more level-headed and let other people argue back and forth over one preview of a game they haven't played elsewhere.
Jawbreaker
Member
That's a really good point I didn't think of. That makes a lot of sense.
You're definitely not a "bad guy" in SotC. Killing the colossi is a morally grey act throughout the game, and to be honest while they seem "alive" for all intents and purposes they are basically just bits and pieces of earth being animated by a scattered deity's essence. Some of them are rather docile, however, so taking them down does have a somber feel to it. Others are more aggressive and outright attack you first.
That's the beauty of SotC's concept. You are taking on this impossible mission to resurrect a loved one, but it can sometimes feel conflicting and regrettable. But by no means would I say that Wander is necessarily in the wrong or doing something evil in SotC. He's simply doing whatever it takes to bring Mono back to life because he cares for her. Would you go hunt down 16 animals to save a loved one? That's basically what SotC is, only they are more majestic due to their size and mysterious nature.
Lots of popular games have awkward controls in 2016. Some are even deliberately awkward. A lot of people are fine with this and that's why they'll defend it.
You might not agree but it is a design choice to go against the standard. It remains to be seen if TLGs approach will hold up over the course of the entire game but I also don't think that a small preview slice is long enough to fully judge the controls either.
Contrary to the prior replies you got
I would say that what your character is doing in SotC is morally wrong, and that he is by his actions very much a bad guy. Of course, questions of personal ethics in fantasy works are dubious at best. He may be a bad guy driven by good intentions, he may be doing what he thinks is right or what he knows to be necessary. But, if you don't want to play a game where you feel bad about what your character is doing, don't play SotC
SotC is one of the greatest games ever made.
I hope they have another type of gameplay that works within this game. THe holding hands in ICO was core for that story, and the grip was core to SOTC. This one should not try to recreate that, but come up with another gameplay mechanic that talks to the narrative.
If they made SOTC 2, with 30 colossi and PS4 graphics, that would be the only way I think they could keep that gameplay and make ssense.
normalmode
Member
Here's my hands-on preview (I'm also at the controls). I'm not at TGS but Sony US PR invited select press to look at the same build in this SF Bay Area office:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbmY3R7fzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbmY3R7fzg
More_Badass
Member
Have you played Grow Home?
A gangly kid who stumbles and doesn't move like a trained precise gymnast may be awkward, but it's also characterizing and adds to the atmosphere and storytelling
A beast that acts like an animal and not a machine may be awkward, but it's also a means of storytelling through gameplay and visuals
Yeah it's quite stunning.
Some of the most believable AI I've seen in a game ever imo.
It's great that they've nailed Trico's AI so that the gut punch story feels are even stronger haha
GIANKRATOS
Member
December is too far T-T
Jawbreaker
Member
Already had you up in the OP. :]
Thanks!
Feel free to write any additional details or impressions here.
Omnistalgic
Member
Ha!!! Just got through the first video...
My goodness, the beast replacing yorda might be the best mechanic ever!
My goodness, the beast replacing yorda might be the best mechanic ever!
wild wild rice
Member
Pressing and holding was also used as a way to develop a bond in Ico. I imagine there's bonding as well as life and death moments in Last Guardian that could potentially be more impactful from the mechanic.
I guess we'll know for sure once we play and finish it. I'm sure Ueda has his reasons.
More_Badass
Member
I can see why Ueda is so excited for Rain World. That's another game with very complex animal AI and fluid realistic animalistic movements.
I wish he'd stay with sony...
More_Badass
Member
True, but it was a protective bond. Being able to let go and not always be jamming down on the climb button and worrying about a grip meter when you're around and on Trico can build a different kind of bond, a different dynamic than the one between Ico and Yorda.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
But polygon said ...
Jk. I'm glad people are liking it.
Jk. I'm glad people are liking it.
Comparing video games and paintings? Really?
normalmode
Member
My bad. I just woke up. And thanks!
Yup, the controls and camera could be better. Puzzle-solving in indoor areas reminded me a lot of ICO. Just substitute Yorda with the much larger Trico and you have an idea of the space you have to work with.
As I mentioned in the video, the E3 2015 area hasn't changed much though now you'll have to destroy a second talisman that outdoor space.
wild wild rice
Member
Where is he going or what is he up to anyway? I thought he basically quit video games halfway through the development of TLG.
More_Badass
Member
They're both art forms so...
Confused Cheeseburger
Member
This is the 3rd Ico game to deliberately control this way. There are no excuses because no one is making any. In a world where games are just bleeding into each other, games are losing individuality for the sake of marketability. Sure, games have established standards, but that doesn't mean a game with deliberate design should just acquiesce to things just because. The camera issues are troublesome, but I for one absolutely think the control scheme should stay true to Ico and SOTC. There's nothing that plays like Team Ico games because Ueda has gone out of his way to make incorporate uncompromising design philosophies in his games.
In completely different ways. Apples and oranges.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.
Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
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