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The Last Guardian | TGS Hands-On Previews

C

Confused Cheeseburger

Member
Jingo said:
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.

Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...

Then don't play it, it's really that simple.
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
It sounds like it plays and feels very much like the previous games... which is exactly what I want!

Jingo said:
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.

Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...

The controls of Ico and SotC are not outdated... they are just logically complex.

For exampl... To hold onto something, you hold a button down. If you let go of the button, you let go in the game. (Does TLG have stamina for holding like SotC does? I'm OK if it does or doesn't because it made sense for SotC, and was optionally upgradable to make things easier.) This is not something common in today's game, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Game controls have in a lot of ways become too simplistic... when I play these games I feel like I am in true control of my character's actions. A lot of games these days you just hit a button and that triggers some complex string of actions in the game.
 
P

pixelbox

Member
wild wild rice said:
Where is he going or what is he up to anyway? I thought he basically quit video games halfway through the development of TLG.
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I don't know, man. But his games resonates with me so hard. People need to be more open minded and allow artists to do their thing. If that's what he wants then allow it. Take it for what it is.
 
M

Man-is-Obsolete

Member
NeoMetallix said:
I don't believe in bad controls. Anyone can get used to any layout, people just complain when it's not the norm and they have to learn how to use it. Pressing triangle to jump is no worse than pressing cross.
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Controls were also complained about in SotC but by the third or fourth colossus it is hard to imagine it playing any other way. I think this will be similar, especially as Trico becomes more "obedient" as the game progresses. I also bet there is a late game event that uses the more obedient behavior against you. Can't wait.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
Jingo said:
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.
Click to expand...

But that is entirely dependent on the player. I have zero issues with bot ICO and SOTC controls because you can work with its unique systems. So far, not a single TGS preview points out the controls are the main detriment to the experience - only the AI behavior and the wonky camera issues and the former is a definitely a plus side.

Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...

It still is today. You seem to conflate level design as independent to the control scheme which false by all accounts.
 
Kremzeek

Kremzeek

Member
Overall I like the impressions - I'll be buying this regardless - but I hope this is longer than a 4-hour game, especially since replayability seems negligible.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
wild wild rice said:
Where is he going or what is he up to anyway? I thought he basically quit video games halfway through the development of TLG.
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I don't believe Ueda has made any mention of his plans post-TLG, but the fact that he found a new studio suggests that he's not done with games just quite yet.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Jingo said:
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.

Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...
That's kind of disengeous. For example, many people, even those like me who never played the original, felt the tank controls were the best controls for HD Remake. Not because of nostaglia, but because the game was designed with such controls in mind and they worked perfectly in the context of that particular game

Age doesnt immediately make something bad. Poor game design does. In proper context of gameplay and mechanics and level design and pacing and enemy behavior, tank controls will feel right for that. Restricted saving may suit a certain game and gameplay, but not others

Saying "character controls from 10 years ago" as if the controls were a product of the time and not intended design is kind of silly. Shadow of the Colossus was released in the year of God of War, Resident Evil 4, and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory; those controls have nothing do with the fact that it was 2005
 
H

Hugstable

Banned
Can't wait to play it, game is looking absolutely awesome. Probably going to try to finish off my Platinum trophy for SoTC before this is out, just have those damn Hard Time attacks to go T_T
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Jingo said:
Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's universal. For example, many would say the idea of a game not having a pause menu is absurd. But that's the case with the Soulsborne games and yet they've become some of the most beloved titles around. Most games nowadays have regenerating health, yet The Last of Us went back to a health pack system. Speculation also points toward the save room returning in RE7. Certain things can work for certain games while they wouldn't for others. Even something like tank controls, they can still work just fine in a game with preset camera angles. That's how i'll play the RE2 remake if it goes in that direction (hopefully it will).
 
Unknown?

Unknown?

Member
Jingo said:
Im ok with awkward if thats something done on purpose , but doing it on purpose doesnt mean it has to be clunky or a negative experience for the player, people here talking about the other team ico games, those games have 10 years.

Resident evil had tank controls and they were fine 15 years ago, they arent good now cause we evolved, restrict saving games were fine back in the day but now its unaceptable cause were past that phase, dont tell me to play a game with character control from 10 years ago like it was normal, cause it isnt.
Click to expand...
Lol just because we have auto save checkpoints now that makes restricting saving to certain points in the game bad? It adds a level of strategy that auto saving doesn't have and rewards skill. If that's how a dev designs a game around there is nothing wrong unless it's very poorly designed.
 
Orpheum

Orpheum

Member
Terrible controls are a killer for me unfortunately....

Who am i kidding, it's TLG...i'll buy it regardless day one
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
The only review that matters will be Guillermo Del Toro when he tweets about it. Gameplay seems like it can be improved on but gameplay has never been team ico best quality so nothing unexpected.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
DrunkShogun said:
The only review that matters will be Guillermo Del Toro when he tweets about it. Gameplay seems like it can be improved on but gameplay has never been team ico best quality so nothing unexpected.
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Did we play different games? Evoking story through gameplay was perhaps one of their best qualities
 
S

SomTervo

Member
SolidSnakex said:
Like I said in the trailer thread, it's definitely going to be more of a love it or hate it experience than ICO or SotC. In both of those games the player dictated what happened. If Yorda wasn't doing what you wanted then you could grab her hand and move her to wherever you wanted. In SotC you had Agro and she'd go in the direction you wanted her to. TLG will be the first time where progress is really up to Trico's AI. You can encourage it, but it'll ultimately respond when it wants to. It's about growing a relationship between the boy and Trico to make it more likely to listen to you just like a real pet. You can't force it to do something like you could in the previous games. It's a huge gamble and one that very few developers would ever take. They're attempting to advance AI forward in a big way when most developers really aren't evolving that aspect of games at all.
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Not quite - there are a couple of Colossi who are absolute nightmares because of how their AI acted. Like the Horse one (is it number four?) where you have to hide underground and run up and jump on its bangs. Sometimes you'd be waiting for tens of minutes trying to coerce it into coming over to the underground hatches.
 
J

JP

Member
Sounds close to perfect to me. :)

I was expecting there to be negativity about Trico being an independent character from some quarters but it seems essential to what they're trying to build on an emotional level. I see it in some ways as being the same as the complaints about the lack of control over Agro in Shadow of The Colossus, that little bit of fight that you get from the horse seemed perfect to me, I'm yet to play a game that has matched the feeling of riding a horse.

EDIT:
Has there been no announcement of PS4 versions of ice & Shadow of The Colossus at TGS? I was sort of thinking that this was the last chance of that happening before launch.

EDIT 2:
I think this is a game that will really benefit from super sampling on PS4 Pro.
 
J

Jawbreaker

Member
Omnistalgic said:
Thanks man...really wish this thread was the one getting the hits instead of the "concerned" one, negative titles more exciting I guess
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No problem. Perhaps it's a good thing that all the shitposting is being contained in the other thread, while this one can have more calm discussions.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Basically the camera issues and bugs are the problems, hopefully they get it fixed by launch, they have time.

Other then that it sounds pretty amazing.
 
F

Frag Waffles

Member
I can see where the complaints are coming from but after watching the full gameplay clips though I don't think there is anything to worry about if you're an ICO/SOTC fan. The boy appears to control very similar to the boy in ICO but quite a bit more accurate and obviously a 2 gen leap in animation. Anyone who's played ICO knows the boy stumbled all over, scaling the castle was not meant to be like uncharted or assassins creed. even jumping simple gaps or walking along narrow pathways required a bit of patience and care. I would recommend playing through ICO if you are unsure about this game as the gameplay gave me big time ICO vibes.
 
S

Sigma722

Member
JP said:
EDIT:
Has there been no announcement of PS4 versions of ice & Shadow of The Colossus at TGS? I was sort of thinking that this was the last chance of that happening before launch.
Click to expand...

If you have decent internet connection sotc plays pretty well on playstation now.
 
J

JP

Member
Sigma722 said:
If you have decent internet connection sotc plays pretty well on playstation now.
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I know. I'm still hoping that we'll finally get versions that both run at 1080/60 because even the previous remasters weren't what I was hoping for. I was hoping there was going to be a TGS announcement that would have them both releasing before this.

I'm not giving up though, I suppose they don't really need to be announced at a show...hopefully.
 
D

Dangansona

Member
More_Badass said:
Have you played Grow Home?

A gangly kid who stumbles and doesn't move like a trained precise gymnast may be awkward, but it's also characterizing and adds to the atmosphere and storytelling

A beast that acts like an animal and not a machine may be awkward, but it's also a means of storytelling through gameplay and visuals
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Confused Cheeseburger said:
This is the 3rd Ico game to deliberately control this way. There are no excuses because no one is making any. In a world where games are just bleeding into each other, games are losing individuality for the sake of marketability. Sure, games have established standards, but that doesn't mean a game with deliberate design should just acquiesce to things just because. The camera issues are troublesome, but I for one absolutely think the control scheme should stay true to Ico and SOTC. There's nothing that plays like Team Ico games because Ueda has gone out of his way to make incorporate uncompromising design philosophies in his games.
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Agreed. Believe it or not it is exactly the gameplay that has me most excited because I loved how Ico and SotC felt and we don't get that in games often.

Edit: Is there a pet Trico button? After seeing some of the stuff he does in these clips even if the AI doesn't remember it I feel like I would feed compelled to encourage him.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
ScOULaris said:
You're definitely not a "bad guy" in SotC. Killing the colossi is a morally grey act throughout the game, and to be honest while they seem "alive" for all intents and purposes they are basically just bits and pieces of earth being animated by a scattered deity's essence. Some of them are rather docile, however, so taking them down does have a somber feel to it. Others are more aggressive and outright attack you first.

That's the beauty of SotC's concept. You are taking on this impossible mission to resurrect a loved one, but it can sometimes feel conflicting and regrettable. But by no means would I say that Wander is necessarily in the wrong or doing something evil in SotC. He's simply doing whatever it takes to bring Mono back to life because he cares for her. Would you go hunt down 16 animals to save a loved one? That's basically what SotC is, only they are more majestic due to their size and mysterious nature.
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Par Score said:
Contrary to the prior replies you got
I would say that what your character is doing in SotC is morally wrong, and that he is by his actions very much a bad guy. Of course, questions of personal ethics in fantasy works are dubious at best. He may be a bad guy driven by good intentions, he may be doing what he thinks is right or what he knows to be necessary. But, if you don't want to play a game where you feel bad about what your character is doing, don't play SotC
.

SotC is one of the greatest games ever made.
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Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I'll have to think on whether I want to play it.
 
I

immortal-joe

Member
I feel like every reviewer for this game should answer a simple question before writing their review for this game:

Do you find the controls / movement system of ICO and SOTC somehow outdated today?

Answering yes confirms that I can safely ignore their reviews. The concept of controls in games being "outdated" is overused in today's gaming climate. The games are designed around these controls, and felt amazing for me. That doesn't suddenly cease to be true, not today, and not after another decade or two.
 
L

LordCanti

Member
Dangansona said:
Agreed. Believe it or not it is exactly the gameplay that has me most excited because I loved how Ico and SotC felt and we don't get that in games often.

Edit: Is there a pet Trico button? After seeing some of the stuff he does in these clips even if the AI doesn't remember it I feel like I would feed compelled to encourage him.
Click to expand...

There better be a boop the snoot button or what are they even doing.
 
S

ScOULaris

Member
maxcriden said:
Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I'll have to think on whether I want to play it.
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I mean... play it. We are both saying you should play it regardless of our differing interpretations of the main character's morality.

It's one of the best games ever made, full stop. It's my personal favorite game of all time.
 
A

Asriel

Member
immortal-joe said:
I feel like every reviewer for this game should answer a simple question before writing their review for this game:

Do you find the controls / movement system of ICO and SOTC somehow outdated today?

Answering yes confirms that I can safely ignore their reviews. The concept of controls in games being "outdated" is overused in today's gaming climate. The games are designed around these controls, and felt amazing for me. That doesn't suddenly cease to be true, not today, and not after another decade or two.
Click to expand...

And they felt awful for me. :shrug: Outdated or not. Bad controls are bad controls, so I feel like that question is not even relevant.
 
P

pixellated_man

Member
The positives outweigh the negatives in these previews. But as usual on Gaf the other more negative thread is getting the most attention.
In a way i think that's good because it tempers expectations. I'm sure the game will be good, but impossible to say right now if it will be 'great'.
 
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