Nothing wrong with waiting for a price drop or something. I just hope you stream your playthrough because I'd love to see how you approach this after Bioshock Infinite and TLoU play times.
Yeah I know, that's probably what I'll end up doing... waiting for the holiday price drops. That's a smart move to make. Because of how much I desire impressive visual showcases, sometimes I forget there are bad games attached to those artistic wonders on occasion.
To me, visuals and sound and gameplay are all of importance quite closely valued to one another. I don't think it's good to focus on one of these aspects significantly less than another, because I find the best games are the ones which can bring all these elements together into a cohesive whole.
That doesn't mean every game has to be a technical masterpiece (mastery of your art direction is more important), but that it has to choose an art style that functions well for its goals and which has an overall aesthetic that is attractive enough to impress on its own independent of how good gameplay or sound direction is. Even better if they all work in synchronicity, each element making the others seem better by association.
If a game is an artistic disaster presentation-wise, I might still enjoy it if the gameplay is suitably great enough to make up for that pitfall. There are plenty of games like that. But I would not value that game as well as game that has wonderful visuals AND gameplay together, see what I mean?
Played only about an hour or so, but so far this is awesome. Great controls, fun, punchy combat, enjoyable level design (already flanked a whole bunch of enemies without being spotted) and ohmygodthevisuals are all adding up to a solid and very enjoyable TPS. Based on what I've seen I cannot understand the average or below average reviews.
Also, Igraine has a tiny waist. Distractingly tiny.
People gloating over potentially costing people their jobs is pretty disgusting. You don't have to be so smug about disliking something. It is OK to not like the game, but it is another to celebrate your hatred of it so openly. You'd think this game kicked people's dogs or something.
Most played on hard the first go through including me but I'd suggest medium to be honest just based on the fact it allows you to navigate the playspace a bit more but technically you can switch at any time and it won't effect anything in relation to trophies.
To me, visuals and sound and gameplay are all of importance quite closely valued to one another. I don't think it's good to focus on one of these aspects significantly less than another, because I find the best games are the ones which can bring all these elements together into a cohesive whole.
That doesn't mean every game has to be a technical masterpiece (mastery of your art direction is more important), but that it has to choose an art style that functions well for its goals and which has an overall aesthetic that is attractive enough to impress on its own independent of how good gameplay or sound direction is. Even better if they all work in synchronicity, each element making the others seem better by association.
If a game is an artistic disaster presentation-wise, I might still enjoy it if the gameplay is suitably great enough to make up for that pitfall. There are plenty of games like that. But I would not value that game as well as game that has wonderful visuals AND gameplay together, see what I mean?
It's a ridiculous premise that poster is submitting anyway, don't let it bother you. If a game sucks, you say it sucks as loudly as it pleases you. That's not equivalent to dancing on the lost jobs of a million souls.
KoopaKid said:
Interesting! I quote :
"I do plenty of times think a videogame is worth it on the sheer value of its subjectively unbelievable visual engine"
I don't know why you're winking, it's true for me. What the quote means is that if your game is suitably artistically impressive, I will on occasion find the game has the merit to be worth existing. May even be a decent quality product, if that visual direction is impressive enough.
For example, Bioshock Infinite. The gameplay is not actually bad like some suggest, and I did enjoy many elements other than just its visuals. But were it not for its splendid visual direction, I probably would have just thought it was a competent yet forgettable package. With its breathtaking imagery, I could not stop going on that virtual tour. I spent as much time engaging its artistic direction as many people do for the average jRPG.
Fine I'll take the bait. One company shipped a game that was completely broken and ran like shit and another shipped a mediocre game. You don't see why someone could take issue with one and not the other?
I hope you didn't see the embarrassing part where I kept on failing to kill the lycan with the arc rifle. I kept on holding left trigger to charge it instead of the right trigger. XD
People gloating over potentially costing people their jobs is pretty disgusting. You don't have to be so smug about disliking something. It is OK to not like the game, but it is another to celebrate your hatred of it so openly. You'd think this game kicked people's dogs or something.
I don't know why you're winking, it's true for me. What the quote means is that if your game is suitably artistically impressive, I will on occasion find the game has the merit to be worth existing. May even be a decent quality product, if that visual direction is impressive enough.
For example, Bioshock Infinite. The gameplay is not actually bad like some suggest, and I did enjoy many elements other than just its visuals. But were it not for its splendid visual direction, I probably would have just thought it was a competent yet forgettable package. With its breathtaking imagery, I could not stop going on that virtual tour. I spent as much time engaging its artistic direction as many people do for the average jRPG.
I see. I prefer this term. Visual artistry. I winked because I thought the sentence I quoted contradicted with this "To me, visuals and sound and gameplay are all of importance quite closely valued to one another."
I see. I prefer this term. Visual artistry. I winked because I thought the sentence I quoted contradicted with this "To me, visuals and sound and gameplay are all of importance quite closely valued to one another."
Ah, I get it. Not quite a contradiction of terms though, I'd say the same about sound and gameplay. If any one element is spectacular enough, it can make up for the shortcomings of its other elements. But that product would never be as good as a game which can nail all three equally because the developers made sure to spread the development focus. Does that make more sense and seem less like a contradiction now? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong haha
I've played 6 hours and I haven't finish the game. Just to share my impressions.
-oh god, even if everybody says that the game is gorgeous I was surprised how beautiful it is. Really stunning.
-I enjoy the pace of the narration.
-gameplay mechanics are simple but solid.
-the game deserves a Photomode asap.
-no traduction for all the collectibles it's a shame.
-voice characters are very good.
-qte are generally good, but they should used an action button for opening door, grab a ladder or this kind of stuff. During melee combat or stealth it works really well.
-more environment variety than I expect.
-last but not the least, before this game, I was expected that level of cgi graphics for the next console (ps5,or xbox two).
More impressions this weekend!
I hope you will enjoy this game as much as I do.
Ps : are you gonna create a topic for screenshots?
I've played 6 hours and I haven't finish the game. Just to share my impressions.
-oh god, even if everybody says that the game is gorgeous I was surprised how beautiful it is. Really stunning.
-I enjoy the pace of the narration.
-gameplay mechanics are simple but solid.
-the game deserves a Photomode asap.
-no traduction for all the collectibles it's a shame.
-voice characters are very good.
-qte are generally good, but they should used an action button for opening door, grab a ladder or this kind of stuff. During melee combat or stealth it works really well.
-more environment variety than I expect.
-last but not the least, before this game, I was expected that level of cgi graphics for the next console (ps5,or xbox two).
More impressions this weekend!
I hope you will enjoy this game as much as I do.
Ps : are you gonna create a topic for screenshots?
I think screenshots can just go in the console screenshot thread for now, once photo mode is out we can make a Photomode OT. That's how it worked for Infamous and Driveclub at least.
Ah, I get it. Not quite a contradiction of terms though, I'd say the same about sound and gameplay. If any one element is spectacular enough, it can make up for the shortcomings of its other elements. But that product would never be as good as a game which can nail all three equally because the developers made sure to spread the development focus. Does that make more sense and seem less like a contradiction now? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong haha
Yes that sentence says it all. On a personal note, I can't enjoy a game that is not well rounded. Only one spectacular aspect is not enough for me. I really disliked Bioshock Infinite for instance.
I actually really want this game to get a sequel, RAD seem like the type of devs that will learn and improve as they go on. This was their first console game and IP, even ND had to go through some growing pains during the 3DO era.
Amazon finally charged me for my Collector's Edition, but it isn't preparing to ship yet. I'm Prime, and I also have release date delivery, so I should get it tomorrow.
Amazon says it shipped and is expected to arrive tomorrow, but UPS says Monday delivery. Hmmm. I suppose I will stay hopeful for a delivery tomorrow until Prime/release day delivery fails me officially. Seems kind of ironic since other retailers broke street date.
Looking forward to playing this, whenever it shows up.
Yes that sentence says it all. On a personal note, I can't enjoy a game that is not well rounded. Only one spectacular aspect is not enough for me. I really disliked Bioshock Infinite for instance.
You ever heard of people being fascinated by what's called "Beautiful Ugly"?
Basically I'm the type of person who on occasion is more captivated by a beautiful disaster - in other words, a director or talent that aims for the sky and fails in the most impressive manner. I think there's so many more interesting ways to analyze a product like that, and there's something almost admirable about the way that individual or team really tried to meet their dreams and simply didn't quite make it.
The movie equivalent of this is Cloud Atlas. What a wonderfully ambitious production, something I never thought was even possible to film right after I read the book prior to seeing the movie. And yet they tried, and it became this gorgeous, convoluted and sloppy piece of artistry that is just a wonder to critique and break down. It's hard not to smile that someone attempted it and was as successfully unsucessful as they were. As a result, Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite films to discuss, albeit not making my top 100 films list.
I'm not sure if The Order fits that category or not.
You ever heard of people being fascinated by what's called "Beautiful Ugly"?
Basically I'm the type of person who on occasion is more captivated by a beautiful disaster - in other words, a director or talent that aims for the sky and fails in the most impressive manner. I think there's so many more interesting ways to analyze a product like that, and there's something almost admirable about the way that individual or team really tried to meet their dreams and simply didn't quite make it.
The movie equivalent of this is Cloud Atlas. What a wonderfully ambitious production, something I never thought was even possible to film right after I read the book prior to seeing the movie. And yet they tried, and it became this gorgeous, convoluted and sloppy piece of artistry that is just a wonder to critique and break down. It's hard not to smile that someone attempted it and was as successfully unsucessful as they were. As a result, Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite films to discuss, albeit not making my top 100 films list.
I'm not sure if The Order fits that category or not.
Oh hey! I like that too, but I call it "Spectacular Failure". They reached for the stars and failed in the most spectacular Challenger-esque way, but I appreciate the attempt.
I've played 6 hours and I haven't finish the game. Just to share my impressions.
-oh god, even if everybody says that the game is gorgeous I was surprised how beautiful it is. Really stunning.
-I enjoy the pace of the narration.
-gameplay mechanics are simple but solid.
-the game deserves a Photomode asap.
-no traduction for all the collectibles it's a shame.
-voice characters are very good.
-qte are generally good, but they should used an action button for opening door, grab a ladder or this kind of stuff. During melee combat or stealth it works really well.
-more environment variety than I expect.
-last but not the least, before this game, I was expected that level of cgi graphics for the next console (ps5,or xbox two).
More impressions this weekend!
I hope you will enjoy this game as much as I do.
Ps : are you gonna create a topic for screenshots?
Sounds good. I'm glad to hear there's decent environment variety. I assume the game keeps a pretty consistent aesthetic but it's nice to know it doesn't always feel like you're in the same back alley.
You ever heard of people being fascinated by what's called "Beautiful Ugly"?
Basically I'm the type of person who on occasion is more captivated by a beautiful disaster - in other words, a director or talent that aims for the sky and fails in the most impressive manner. I think there's so many more interesting ways to analyze a product like that, and there's something almost admirable about the way that individual or team really tried to meet their dreams and simply didn't quite make it.
The movie equivalent of this is Cloud Atlas. What a wonderfully ambitious production, something I never thought was even possible to film right after I read the book prior to seeing the movie. And yet they tried, and it became this gorgeous, convoluted and sloppy piece of artistry that is just a wonder to critique and break down. It's hard not to smile that someone attempted it and was as successfully unsucessful as they were. As a result, Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite films to discuss, albeit not making my top 100 films list.
I'm not sure if The Order fits that category or not.
Apart of me is wondering if game reviewers and I are starting to differ more and more on what we want in games.
I'm sure the Order 1886 is not a perfect game and will not blow my socks off, but I still think that I will be throughly entertained by this game.
It's the same way I felt with AC Unity. I looked at the content the developer released, read the reviews (complaints), and thought about what I wanted in the game. Besides the glitches, that were eventually fixed, I saw a game that had amazing visuals, interesting looking characters, a great setting, amazing sound design, and gameplay that I knew I would enjoy based off previous games.
When I look at the Order, I get that this may be the AC1 of this series, but then I read the reviews and I just don't get modern games journalism...
- The game is just your standard run of the mill third person shooter with cover mechanics. Why is this never a gripe in Uncharted or Gears of War? Isn't that the core gameplay of those games?
- It focuses too much on cinematics and being a movie and less on being a game. Gameplay should be king. Heavy Rain, Telltale games, etc all focus on their stories and not on being games. Hell, even Last of Us had a ton of story exposition. I don't get how it can be THAT much more movie like than the games mentioned above.
- Too many QTEs and an underwhelming story God of War anyone?
Basically, I'm not trying call out those other games or even say that the Order is better, but I don't get how all these negatives in the Order make it awful but other games can get 8+ with them being the key components of the game.
When I look at the Order I see a game with amazing production value, set in a cool and unique world with gameplay that I know I'll appreciate.
Sometimes I want a cinematic experience that I can interact with.
Maybe the set pieces aren't amazing, maybe the story doesn't hit all the beats, but I don't think you can look at this game and call it a 5/10.
Apart of me is wondering if game reviewers and I are starting to differ more and more on what we want in games.
I'm sure the Order 1886 is not a perfect game and will not blow my socks off, but I still think that I will be throughly entertained by this game.
It's the same way I felt with AC Unity. I looked at the content the developer released, read the reviews (complaints), and thought about what I wanted in the game. Besides the glitches, that were eventually fixed, I saw a game that had amazing visuals, interesting looking characters, a great setting, amazing sound design, and gameplay that I knew I would enjoy based off previous games.
When I look at the Order, I get that this may be the AC1 of this series, but then I read the reviews and I just don't get modern games journalism...
- The game is just your standard run of the mill third person shooter with cover mechanics. Why is this never a gripe in Uncharted or Gears of War? Isn't that the core gameplay of those games?
- It focuses too much on cinematics and being a movie and less on being a game. Gameplay should be king. Heavy Rain, Telltale games, etc all focus on their stories and not on being games. Hell, even Last of Us had a ton of story exposition. I don't get how it can be THAT much more movie like than the games mentioned above.
- Too many QTEs and an underwhelming story God of War anyone?
Basically, I'm not trying call out those other games or even say that the Order is better, but I don't get how all these negatives in the Order make it awful but other games can get 8+ with them being the key components of the game.
When I look at the Order I see a game with amazing production value, set in a cool and unique world with gameplay that I know I'll appreciate.
Sometimes I want a cinematic experience that I can interact with.
Maybe the set pieces aren't amazing, maybe the story doesn't hit all the beats, but I don't think you can look at this game and call it a 5/10.
Apart of me is wondering if game reviewers and I are starting to differ more and more on what we want in games.
I'm sure the Order 1886 is not a perfect game and will not blow my socks off, but I still think that I will be throughly entertained by this game.
It's the same way I felt with AC Unity. I looked at the content the developer released, read the reviews (complaints), and thought about what I wanted in the game. Besides the glitches, that were eventually fixed, I saw a game that had amazing visuals, interesting looking characters, a great setting, amazing sound design, and gameplay that I knew I would enjoy based off previous games.
When I look at the Order, I get that this may be the AC1 of this series, but then I read the reviews and I just don't get modern games journalism...
- The game is just your standard run of the mill third person shooter with cover mechanics. Why is this never a gripe in Uncharted or Gears of War? Isn't that the core gameplay of those games?
- It focuses too much on cinematics and being a movie and less on being a game. Gameplay should be king. Heavy Rain, Telltale games, etc all focus on their stories and not on being games. Hell, even Last of Us had a ton of story exposition. I don't get how it can be THAT much more movie like than the games mentioned above.
- Too many QTEs and an underwhelming story God of War anyone?
Basically, I'm not trying call out those other games or even say that the Order is better, but I don't get how all these negatives in the Order make it awful but other games can get 8+ with them being the key components of the game.
When I look at the Order I see a game with amazing production value, set in a cool and unique world with gameplay that I know I'll appreciate.
Sometimes I want a cinematic experience that I can interact with.
Maybe the set pieces aren't amazing, maybe the story doesn't hit all the beats, but I don't think you can look at this game and call it a 5/10.
Now imagine Gears Of War in small corridors interrupted every few minutes with a Telltale QTE and half the game is unskippable Heavy Rain cinematics. How does that sound?
Also GOW is 9 years old and Uncharted, 8.
+ gunplay extremely satisfying in feedback (dayum!), sound and accuracy. Some guns are very cool to use and I love this idea that they're designed to be still grounded into their reality, it adds depth and value to the overall. Slow motion (blacklight) is quite spectacular but nothing more than a nice addition. Cover system works fine.
+ graphics (and lighting!) and animations. Words can't describe how awesome everything is, so clean and detailed. Everything comes together to give a very nice atmosphere that plays a key role for this game. You'll be surprised to see the amount of details even in the environments where you don't spend much time. Personally I love this dedication for the side things, they can make the difference between a good game and a great one.
+ performance. I didn't notice any frame drop or bugs, just few artifacts (like some strange lights in the eyes). The engine is very solid.
+ art direction and OST, I'd like to kiss Jason Graves now. But, oddly, tracks are not played that much in the background, they often use nothing but ambient sounds (kudos to the sound designers).
+ acting and direction. Also, aspect ratio is nothing like TEW if you're wondering. It was a choice and they built the game taking this element in consideration. You'll notice pretty easily.
+ storytelling is seamlessly integrated with gameplay, narration never stops. Like a good movie, there are intense and slower moments but the story constantly progresses. At no point in the game you'll say "wtf am i doing here? and why? oh well who cares, let's shoot!".
+ characters are believable, well written. Relationships between characters, though, deserved more time (and lines) to be appreciated,
especially for a key moment in the story.
Lafayette >>>>>>>> Galahad.
+ lore, I can't help but love everything about it. Secret order of Knights + werewolves + steampunk Victorian London is instant love.
+/- basic level design and IA, especially friendly AI.
+/- in my opinion, they didn't use the gorgeus environments they had properly. I mean, there's so much more of this London I'd like to see, explore and in which to have more gunfights.
+/- story and I know it can feel strange because the lore is a +. This game feels like a huge introduction to something, you can feel there's a world behind but by the end of the game, you know so little about it. A good reason to hope for a sequel, I guess. Some good plot twists, I didn't see them coming like others said.
+/- pace, probably the hardest thing when you plan to do games like this. It doesn' help the fact that you don't have much power over this aspect, the game decides the pace.
+/- fail/repeat sections. Not many but boring, I believe that if you want something to play in one way, and one way only, maybe in a short time frame, you should just play a cinematic or use a QTE. Or, as they did somewhere else in the game, you should fool the player better which is fine for a first run (but it kills replay value).
- I did not use the guns as freely and as much as I wished.
- final "boss" and ending.
I don't mind having the same fight as I had before, it's not even a matter of QTE-based fight
, I just hoped for something more epic to conclude the story.
- werewolves should be more, I spent too much time against humans. They had something unique and they just didn't use it, like I sad for the Victorian London and the story but this disappoints me more.
- melee. I think it's consistent with their formula but to rely on QTE, even if well done and spectacular, is lazy. After TLOU system I just can't go back, it's the perfect balance between gameplay and spectacle. Even a basic melee would be better than QTEs.
- replay value. Quite obviously.
Played at Hard, between 9-10 hours.
In my opinion, the idea behind The Order was to have a game with no downtimes at all and with downtimes I also mean gameplay elements like weapons upgrades etc. The pace is decided by the game itself, and not like Uncharted or TLOU because you're still free to do your things there. TO is supposed to flow from start to end like a movie and I think this is the reason behind some choices. More freedom would've been better, let's say Uncharted 2 level of freedom, definitely not like TLOU. Comparisons with Telltale's games seem inappropriate to me, those are decent movies that try to be decent games, which means that the core gameplay itself is sacrificed. The only thing in common is that they both take the player by hand for the whole time. TO is a good game that tries to be a movie, which means that the core gameplay is all there, solid and enjoyable, but at the same time it makes some choices (pace, linearity etc) in order to give the same satisfaction you expect from a good movie. To have such a low replay value is, as I said, just a obvious consequence.
Anyway, this game proves that to achieve that perfect balance of Uncharted 2 isn't easy at all. I'm happy, though, that they stuck with their vision and if I may, reviews killed this game for its own nature, it's a shame. When I review a game, I don't dispute design choices, unless they're terribly wrong from every point of view (MGS4 endless cutscenes, for example), but how much they're consistent with the design and the overall result.
My personal score is 8/10, considering this a new IP with great potential from a team on its first experience with a home console that never worked on something new before. Good job RaD, you proved your talent to me.
