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[Shaneus]

I saw the Blur footage with the better weapon effects... but I'd missed that video. Was that confirmed that it was probably going to be Blur 2 (or a derivation thereof)?

Fuck. That looked insane. The added touch of the glass shattering underneath the car was terrific.

PS. It was only a matter of time after they removed Blood Stone. I'm pissed about that, too... I literally only had a look on there to buy the game after the whole Lucid P.I. thing and found it was gone... and from what I can tell, nowhere to buy it digitally :/

 

[TJP]

Blood Stone was a day one purchase and I loved every second of it. Pity it had little replay value after finishing it on the hardest setting. Worth tracking down, perhaps on eBay or 2nd hand for console, for a cheap price.

 

[derFeef]

The Club was also great, I personally loved it - so frantic and addictive.
Wasn't well recieved though.

 

[Shaneus]

Blood Stone was a day one purchase and I loved every second of it. Pity it had little replay value after finishing it on the hardest setting. Worth tracking down, perhaps on eBay or 2nd hand for console, for a cheap price.

Have it on console, wanted it on PC It's a shame you can see where they obviously had planned for a driving sequence but instead had to cut it out completely (the cutscenes where all you see is Bond getting into then out of the car). Fucking sucked because I knew it would've been awesome otherwise.

 

[TJP]

The Club was also great, I personally loved it - so frantic and addictive.

I feel the same way about The Club although I wasn't that great at it. To me, The Club was the shooting version of the PGR cone challenges. Another hotchpotch of sorts - if I recall correctly, Sega had BC shoehorn in a story.

Have it on console, wanted it on PC

I found many new copies of the PC version on eBay for $10 & I'm thinking of buying a copy.

Anyone know how the PC DVD version of Blur is updated? I'm thinking of getting a copy and am wondering how the game updates. The Activision website is completely useless and I cannot find the update files listed on the Steam user forums

 

[misterecoli]

I feel the same way about The Club although I wasn't that great at it. To me, The Club was the shooting version of the PGR cone challenges. Another hotchpotch of sorts - if I recall correctly, Sega had BC shoehorn in a story.

I wouldn't say 'shoehorn' a story, but it originally was planned to be a no story, arcade style points challenge. When it was stripped back to the basics (simple player/Simple AI/One (maybe 2?) weapons/very simple environment) it was incredibly addictive.

 

[TJP]

I wouldn't say 'shoehorn' a story, but it originally was planned to be a no story, arcade style points challenge. When it was stripped back to the basics (simple player/Simple AI/One (maybe 2?) weapons/very simple environment) it was incredibly addictive.

Thanks for the info 8) Great game BTW. I'd love to read more behind the scenes stories regarding the the development (and post release reactions) of the various Bizarre Creations games over the years. We started getting a few great posts on Strange Developments by a few ex-Bizarre folk but alas most haven't posted there in ages.

@Shaneus - bought new copies of Blood Stone and Blur for the PC both for $12 delivered 8) Both replace the Xbox 360 versions.

Cheers.

 

[Shaneus]

Thanks for the info 8) Great game BTW. I'd love to read more behind the scenes stories regarding the the development (and post release reactions) of the various Bizarre Creations games over the years. We started getting a few great posts on Strange Developments by a few ex-Bizarre folk but alas most haven't posted there in ages.

@Shaneus - bought new copies of Blood Stone and Blur for the PC both for $12 delivered 8) Both replace the Xbox 360 versions.

Cheers.

I'm still waiting for my copy of Blood Stone to come. You'd think "express" (I know... eBay "express") shipping from Perth would be quicker than a week, even with the public holiday :/

Oh well, at least I have Sonic Transformed now! At least there's a little Bizarre in that one

 

[Superfrog]

i want to replay pgr 4 again, is there any way to fix the missing shadows that the last patch caused? or do i need to delete the patch (is that even possible?)?

System Settings -> Memory -> highlight HDD, press Y for Device Options -> Clear System Cache

This should remove any game patch/software update from the console. It's more than likely that you don't have any PGR4 software update on your console anymore, though. I think the 360 only stores the 5(?) most recent updates for any game and automatically overwrites any older ones. So your only option to play PGR4 with dynamic shadows is not to install any game update when prompted to do so.

and what about the install, wasnt it causing some sound bugs?

I haven't played PGR4 from HDD yet, but it seems as if that wasn't patched either.

 

[misterecoli]

Thanks for the info 8) Great game BTW. I'd love to read more behind the scenes stories regarding the the development (and post release reactions) of the various Bizarre Creations games over the years. We started getting a few great posts on Strange Developments by a few ex-Bizarre folk but alas most haven't posted there in ages.

I've no idea what people would find interesting, or long forgotten most of the stories, probably not the right thread anyway!

 

[TJP]

I've no idea what people would find interesting, or long forgotten most of the stories, probably not the right thread anyway!

Any insider stories would be on-topic if PGR or Blur related 8)

Listened to the latest Gameburst roundtable 'greatest racing games' and PGR was heavily featured 8)

 

[misterecoli]

Well I spent most my time on the action team so I'm not the man to help out here

 

[saladine1]

Thanks for the info 8) Great game BTW. I'd love to read more behind the scenes stories regarding the the development (and post release reactions) of the various Bizarre Creations games over the years. We started getting a few great posts on Strange Developments by a few ex-Bizarre folk but alas most haven't posted there in ages.

@Shaneus - bought new copies of Blood Stone and Blur for the PC both for $12 delivered 8) Both replace the Xbox 360 versions.

Cheers.

I would love to see a documentary about BC. I reckon it would be epic!

Anyway, PGR5..
I still remember the feeling I got when I first saw PGR3. I was gobsmacked.
I want to feel that again..

 

[TJP]

Well I spent most my time on the action team so I'm not the man to help out here

It doesn't matter as it's great to have a developer from Bizarre Creations who just happens to be at Lucid posting in our little appreciation thread. As for being a part of the action team, many of us have already stated Geometry Wars, The Club and Blood Stone (plus as far back as Fur Fighters) were imbued with the same Bizarre Creations quality that were the backbone of all the BC made racing games.

 

[misterecoli]

I would love to see a documentary about BC. I reckon it would be epic!

Epic might be a bit of a stretch!

 

[Shaneus]

Possibly not epic, but it'd be great to see!

I'd love to know if there's much of a relationship (professional or otherwise) between some of the UK devs. I wouldn't consider Codemasters in that group (though they may have been in the past), but I've always thought of Bizarre and Psygnosis as a part of a particular cluster of devs that have a very distinct design aesthetic/philosophy that I absolutely adore (kind of reminiscent of the UK Amiga era, I guess?). I suppose Sumo, Sawfly and Lucid would be a part of that now... but I can't think of anyone else that would fit.

Perhaps Playground as well, but to me they kind of feel like a supergroup that was just thrown together but just wind up creating whatever they were asked to and not something that has a style indicative of their employee's roots. There's no real "feel" to Forza Horizon, which I was hoping wouldn't be the case when it was released. If anything, it has a kind of vibe that just feels like something any number of US devs could've put together.


Grampa Simpson-style ramble over.

 

[misterecoli]

Not much to be honest, not for any reason that we're all busy, we certainly keep in touch and love seeing how everyone is doing. Ex bizarre wise, think there's only 2 maybe 3 ex bizarre guys at Playground, 2 at Sumo, 2 or 3 at Codies, yet 25+ atLucid. Always seemed odd that everyone thought there were huge numbers of BC guys at other studios...

 

[TheOddOne]

Not much to be honest, not for any reason that we're all busy, we certainly keep in touch and love seeing how everyone is doing. Ex bizarre wise, think there's only 2 maybe 3 ex bizarre guys at Playground, 2 at Sumo, 2 or 3 at Codies, yet 25+ atLucid. Always seemed odd that everyone thought there were huge numbers of BC guys at other studios...

Playground has like 20+ people from Codemaster. You could call them more ex-Codie than ex-Bizarre.

 

[misterecoli]

Prob better to say ' a great studio' rather than being an X + Y + Z

 

[Winterfang]

I've only played 2 of them.

Metropolis Street Racer: Which was insanely awesome on the Dreamcast

PGR4: One of the worse games I had played.

I'm neutral towards the series.

 

[misterecoli]

I liked PGR4 a lot. PGR2 was my favourite though, just loved the variety of city's...

 

[mrklaw]

I liked PGR4 a lot. PGR2 was my favourite though, just loved the variety of city's...

Edinburgh was sublime

One reason I don't really get in with forza horizon is the lack of cities. It is a core part of what makes PGR, along with the handling

Don't care about the kudos, always thought it was a gimmick and I didn't like events where you are forced to chain drifts etc. I just want to race

PGR2 tracks and stucture with PGR3 graphics would probably be my perfect combo.

 

[misterecoli]

I thought kudos was integral, style over speed, all made sense....

 

[Shaneus]

PGR2 tracks and stucture with PGR3 graphics would probably be my perfect combo.

Have you played much of PGR4 at all? It may be the typical rant of the Bizarre fanboy, but that it still holds up today with many of the other racers on 360 and PS3 says an incredible lot for it. Streaming tracks over loading them into memory at the start really opened them up to use incredibly detailed textures on a box that really shouldn't have let them do so.

It also has the best implementation of motion blur I've yet to see in a 30fps game.

Don't care about the kudos, always thought it was a gimmick and I didn't like events where you are forced to chain drifts etc. I just want to race

I thought kudos was integral, style over speed, all made sense....

It's not about how fast you drive, but how you drive fast

I liked PGR4 a lot. PGR2 was my favourite though, just loved the variety of city's...

Can I ask, did/do you have a preference for any particular driving model used throughout the series? From what I understand, MS had somewhat nudged BC into tweaking their handling for an arcadier/casual gamer-friendly gaming experience for PGR4 to differentiate itself further from the Forza series.
Personally I preferred it over the others because it seemed to hit just the right note of feeling realistic while containing the right amount of "Hollywood-ness" you'd expect to find in a pure arcade racer. For what it's worth, I think the Criterion-era NFS series is still trying to do that, but the dialled-in drift of the games (along with nitro/spikes etc.) makes them feel far too dumbed down. But I obviously love how each title felt though. Despite being all from the same series, each one definitely had it's own feeling that was like a fingerprint.

Loved that stuff in Blur though. Pretty sure I can see that's what Criterion are *trying* to go for... but it always feels like it's detrimental rather than supplemental. If there's one thing Bizarre was good at (not just within the PGR series), it was that there was a great sense of balance in all aspects of their releases, not just in a gameplay sense but across graphics, sound design and just the "feel" of them.

 

[misterecoli]

As I said I didn't work directly on pgr or blur, so prob the wrong guy. Tho I did inadvertently announce blur 2, big mistake, long day!

 

[TJP]

I liked PGR4 a lot. PGR2 was my favourite though, just loved the variety of city's...

Same here 8)

For me the combination of PGR 2's cities with PGR 3's physics and PGR 4's graphics* plus weather would make the ultimate PGR game. I'd also combine the vehicle list from all the games including the bikes 8)

*Or swap for Blur's sublime multi threaded, 4x MSAA capable (with 20 cars on screen!) engine. Read the Digital Foundry article on Blur for technical wonderment!

 

[TheOddOne]

Prob better to say ' a great studio' rather than being an X + Y + Z

Wasn't trying to imply anything though, they are a great bunch of developers

 

[Cheddahz]

I have a copy of PGR4 I've never played (it'll be my first PGR game) and I'm a fan of racing games, should I pop it in?

 

[Shaneus]

Posting that in this thread is like walking into a McDonalds, buying a cheeseburger then asking them if you should eat it

 

[enzo_gt]

So we'll hear about PGR5 at E3 by the latest, but rumoured around March/April, right?

Spoiler

If it isn't in the initial rollout for Durango I think it's safe to say MS will never touch the IP again.

 

[Cheddahz]

Posting that in this thread is like walking into a McDonalds, buying a cheeseburger then asking them if you should eat it

Well I got the game for very cheap a while back, I'm kinda bored tonight, and playing a racing game just sounds like a good idea

 

[Shaneus]

Honestly, it's rad. It has my favourite handling/driving of all the PGRs (at least, as much as my memory allows) and it looks absolutely fantastic even compared to today's games. You'll love it

 

[Xun]

I've only played 2 of them.

Metropolis Street Racer: Which was insanely awesome on the Dreamcast

PGR4: One of the worse games I had played.

I'm neutral towards the series.

The hell?

How is it a bad game? I'm generally curious as to why you think it's bad.

 

[Doffen]

PGR4: One of the worse games I had played.

No, just no.

 

[noffles]

PGR4 may be the most time I've ever spent with a racing game that isn't a kart racer. I absolutely adore that game and got about 20 extra hours out of the Platinum+ DLC... without ever being able to finish it. Multiplayer modes were great too. Cat and mouse, bulldog, et al. I wish stuff like Forza could fill the gap that's been left behind now that Bizarre is gone, but it's just not the same.

Fuck, I wish I had that game with me right now.

 

[Shaneus]

Finally got my copy of Blood Stone, and I have a feeling this was the last thing we ever got that was a taste of what could have been, Gotham-wise:

Felt so damn good, it broke my heart when playing it and seeing where additional driving sections had obviously been cut for time (when a cutscene would start with them getting into the car, and then getting right out again at their destination 10 seconds later ).

 

[misterecoli]

You mean in Monaco with the Koenigsegg? We had planned to do that cutscene in game as a driving section but time wouldn't allow...

 

[TJP]

Finally got my copy of Blood Stone

Same here. I was hoping Steam would recognise the DVD key; alas it doesn't. Now looking forward to playing through Blood Stone again.

 

[Havoc2049]

So many great hours with PGR2 back in the day. Such a great online racing community back then. So many cool people on XB Live back then. Between PGR2, Halo 2 and Wolfenstein, it was some of the most fun I've had gaming online in my life.

"Hey, this isn't Gran Turdismo, learn how to drive!" lol

 

[Shaneus]

You mean in Monaco with the Koenigsegg? We had planned to do that cutscene in game as a driving section but time wouldn't allow...

From playing it on PS3 (it's been a while, and I'm only near the start on the PC one) that was definitely it, but I'm sure there was more than one occasion I picked up on it. Knowing there was a driving sequence in a game, by developers who I admired, that I suspected had been cut due to outside circumstances, it was a little heartbreaking.

Glad to get confirmation from the horse's mouth.

One small question though: Did any of the PGR/Blur team have anything to do with those sequences? I mean literally anyone, from modellers to environment artists to handling guys... because it felt more like PGR than Blur, and not just because of the lack of weapons.


BTW, greatly appreciate your visibility in this thread. I don't know if there are many places you guys are aware of on the internet that has such an interest in Bizarre/Lucid's work, but it's good to know that you guys know that people like us exist (even if sometimes it's in the form of some peculiar e-stalking ).

 

[misterecoli]

People moved from team to team so probably yes, mainly on the art side. The Blur (and PGR) handling guy gave us the feedback on the handling of the vehicles but we obviously tweaked it to try and make it fit the audience.

Plus there were no outside influences on cutting anything, we planned for a lot of things that weren't in the final game, as time goes by you either decide it isn't necessary for the game or to spend your time polishing something else.

The Monaco driving scene for example we just thought would have been a bit dull compared to the other sections, and the amount of art needed to create a driving sequence that is only used once, with no replayability is pretty large. That's why you don't get many games that mix driving and on foot sections.

 

[Shaneus]

Ah, that makes sense. When I mentioned "outside influence" though, I was more referring to the need to meet a deadline and having to pick something to be cut. I'd like to think Activision would be flexible enough with things like timeframes, but publishers will be publishers!

As the game stands though, I've not stopped being impressed with it since I first played it on PS3. Not that it makes one iota of difference, but I think you all did both the Bond and Bizarre legacies proud

 

[TJP]

I wonder if this is true or BS: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511850 Rumour also posted here: http://www.grcade.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33018&sid=199473b4d02dac49b73eee46055cf8f4

PGR 5 on Durango by Lucid would be a system seller for me as I was leaning heavily towards Sony's Orbis.

And just for the hell of it, a Blur 2 gif repost 8)

 

[nib95]

Funny seeing this thread prop up lol....

 

[Estocolmo]

So many great hours with PGR2 back in the day. Such a great online racing community back then. So many cool people on XB Live back then. Between PGR2, Halo 2 and Wolfenstein, it was some of the most fun I've had gaming online in my life.

"Hey, this isn't Gran Turdismo, learn how to drive!" lol

I used to play PGR2 (and Halo 2) a lot online. PGR2 was really a special game, the cities were particularly good in this series.

 

[tasos]

So here is a question I pose to my fellow PGR nuts here alongside general racing game fans: How would you keep the series fresh?

-At least 6 cities with a lot of tracks each ( every city must have easily recognisable places)
-Time of day on every track
-Obviously weather
-tracks must have elevation (where possible) just like Edinburgh in PGR2.
-Lots of effects ... particles , dust ,trees that move, birds flying, garbage moving , newspapers in the air etc..

And my favorite : When i race ,i want the console to calculate time in each city . (just like MSR). Also when it rains let's say in London , the same happens when i'm playing that track .

 

[Shaneus]

Well, if there is something coming up, I can almost guarantee you it'll have time of day *and* all weather on every track. I remember them saying that they were going to do that with PGR4 but ran out of space on the disc for it. They probably wouldn't need it for the next Xbox as they'd be able to use dynamic everything, but for the last one I think they mentioned they needed to have multiples of every texture, depending on the time of day (ie. dawn/dusk, night, midday and overcast/raining etc.). So hopefully, that should be high up on the list of things that are basically lock-ins given that they're (supposedly) working off the PGR4 engine.

And track elevation... oh man. It was one of the things I loved about the new tracks in PGR4. Quebec City was an absolute monster regarding that... reminded me of San Francisco in MSR. Drive *really* fast up one of those hills, get on just the right angle before you take a jump so you can land and drift around a corner whilst being inches away from the railing. And getting a shitload of Kudos while doing it

Man, now I want to pull out the old Xbox and fire up the first two PGRs again. It's a shame that emulation of both for the 360 is nowhere near as good as it should be.

 

[Big Takeover]

Well, if there is something coming up, I can almost guarantee you it'll have time of day *and* all weather on every track. I remember them saying that they were going to do that with PGR4 but ran out of space on the disc for it. They probably wouldn't need it for the next Xbox as they'd be able to use dynamic everything, but for the last one I think they mentioned they needed to have multiples of every texture, depending on the time of day (ie. dawn/dusk, night, midday and overcast/raining etc.). So hopefully, that should be high up on the list of things that are basically lock-ins given that they're (supposedly) working off the PGR4 engine.

And track elevation... oh man. It was one of the things I loved about the new tracks in PGR4. Quebec City was an absolute monster regarding that... reminded me of San Francisco in MSR. Drive *really* fast up one of those hills, get on just the right angle before you take a jump so you can land and drift around a corner whilst being inches away from the railing. And getting a shitload of Kudos while doing it

Man, now I want to pull out the old Xbox and fire up the first two PGRs again. It's a shame that emulation of both for the 360 is nowhere near as good as it should be.

For real, or people just guessing?

I kind of hope so just because it's a known and awesome quantity, but I'd never usually root for a retool of an engine born 8 years ago at the start of this gen.

 

[Shaneus]

It was written in that speculation thread, but I doubt there's much fact to it. I can only assume that they're just using core parts or certain specific parts of the engine (like maybe just handling or something... something that doesn't need anything "next gen" done to it)... or something like that.

I'm not looking for confirmation or denial or whatever in this thread (so no need to think I'm snooping around, misterecoli ) but just repeating whatever rumours appeared in that other discussion.

 

[tasos]

I'd hope they're working off an advanced PGR4 engine , it's a great engine that gives almost photorealistic results , especially the backgrounds are amazing .