Support NeoGAF

[Manmademan]

Nintendo games.

- Pikmin 3
- New Super Mario Bros U
- Super Mario 3D World
- Mario Kart 8
- Super Smash Bros Wii U
- Zelda Wind Waker HD

The WiiU should make clear that nintendo's franchises aren't that much of a draw anymore. All of those games are available on the WiiU (sans mario kart and smash) and they've failed to gain the interest of anyone but the nintendo hardcore- and the nintendo hardcore already HAS a WiiU. a stripped down wiiU microconsole is pointless to this audience.

The appeal of the PS360 library as it stands absolutely destroys nintendo's own offerings, if for no other reason than those systems have robust third party support in addition to million selling exclusives.

Also, Wiimote.

People already have a console with a wiimote. it's called the wii and has been dead for years now. Part of the problem with the wiimote's appeal is that it's not dependent on graphics. There's no real reason for someone who has wii sports and wii sports resort to upgrade to an HD version of the same thing.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

notsureifserious.jpg

Quality contribution to the thread. Your use of memes is incredible.
Yesamserious.avi

 

[Chittagong]

Then why isn't anyone buying the Wii U? Price? Nintendo could drop the Wii U to 199 tomorrow just by removing the gamepad.

They would do a lot better at $199 but the two main problems would remain - unfavourable comparison by being seen in the same category as PS4 and Xbone, and the fact that the costs of the archaic PowerPC + ATI architecture and BluRay drive could never go as low as SoC pucks. $99 would be easy.

 

[tengiants]

There's a huge psychology change underfoot as well: kids right now are growing up with iPads and touch controls. Nintendo is no longer synonymous with a child's first gaming exposure. That nostalgia effect Nintendo games have banked on with various sequels for decades no longer hold the cachet they once did for many youts growing up right now.

There isn't any sort of "psychology change" happening. Take my anecdotal evidence for example. I grew up on C64 and PC games, eventually got an NES and SNES though because I like videogames, and Nintendo knows how to make some of the best of them. This is still true which is why I own a Wii U. It's even my most gamed on device at the moment.

 

[Manmademan]

They would do a lot better at $199 but the two main problems would remain - unfavourable comparison by being seen in the same category as PS4 and Xbone, and the fact that the costs of the archaic PowerPC + ATI architecture and BluRay drive could never go as low a SoC pucks. $99 would be easy.

are you aware the 360 was already $99 over the holiday? and the PS3 was $199 with two AAA games bundled with it (TLOU and Arkham)? There is no way to out price drop the ps360 even WITH an ARM architecture, and even at price parity the lack of a robust network and titles makes trying pointless.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Quality contribution to the thread. Your use of memes is incredible.
Yesamserious.avi

"They've gotten worse as a company since the release of the Wii. Their games have been irrelevant with the odd third party game being better than most of theirs (No More Heroes, Xenoblade Chronicles, Dokapoon Kingdom)"

First of all, Xenoblade Chronicles is a first party game, that says everything about your knowledge.

Furthermore, if we want to discuss this objectively, their software still gets >90% everywhere with Mario Galaxy being the best rated game of all time at gamerankings,
Nintendo voted as the best publisher by EDGE (and most people agreed) and so on. If you don't like those games, it's your problem.


"while their own first party games like Skyward Sword are a huge step back from the previous titles"

That's again, your opinion, we had a lot of threads about "whats your favorite Zelda" in the past and opinions vary.


"or games like New Super Mario Bros have been milked worse than Call of Duty."

You know that they only release one NSMB per system and generation, not like Call of Duty, which gets yearly updates.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I think Iwata should be fired from his current position. Maybe he can still be a dev but the mistakes he has made with the WiiU are disastrous. Nintendo's relevance in the console sector is even worse than during the GC era and the 3DS is no Gameboy.

The handheld sector is declining fast and with the growth of the console sector I think its important for them to maintain some hold there. There predictions are simply laughable and even the most hardcore nintendo fanboy can agree in how ridiculous that WiiU prediction was.

 

[Jon of the Wired]

So, what if they released a model without the gamepad at a much lower price, and also called it the Wii 2 and supported it with a new marketing blitz.Would that make any difference?

 

[H_Prestige]

So, what if they released a model without the gamepad at a much lower price, and also called it the Wii 2 and supported it with a new marketing blitz.Would that make any difference?

Not really. There comes a point of no return for a system. Developers have all but abandoned it already, and there weren't that many to begin with.

 

[Giant Panda]

Nintendo has three choices for its future that I can see.

1. Make another home console, but do it right this time.
2. Go mobile.
3. Drop home consoles and stick with handhelds, possibly become 3rd party on consoles.

If Nintendo wants to continue making home consoles they need to use input methods that aren't available to other devices. This essentially means going back to the Wii remote, though they should upgrade it a bit to take advantage of traditional controls as well. By combining motion and traditional controls they'll be able to differentiate themselves from phone and tablet games much more effectively. This control scheme will also allow them to utilize virtual-reality technology when it's ready for the mainstream.

Going mobile is definitely not the answer. It simply doesn't provide the revenues needed, and is a very hit or miss market riddled mostly by fads.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

There isn't any sort of "psychology change" happening. Take my anecdotal evidence for example. I grew up on C64 and PC games, eventually got an NES and SNES though because I like videogames, and Nintendo knows how to make some of the best of them. This is still true which is why I own a Wii U. It's even my most gamed on device at the moment.

I think the poster was referring to gamers who grew up in the mid 90s and 2000s, who make up the entirety of the teen demographic. For an increasing percentage, a tablet or smartphone is their first gaming experience.

 

[wsippel]

In Iwata's own words, they are not good at competing. I've never heard of a company making such comments. The only reason anyone owns stock is for the chance to sell it once (in their minds) Nintendo announces full support of smartphones and the stock price shoots up.

The main reason to own Nintendo stock is because they pay good dividends. That's the whole fucking point of publicly traded companies - you invest, you get part of the profits. If you want to speculate, try a casino.

 

[w1gglyjones]

So, what if they released a model without the gamepad at a much lower price, and also called it the Wii 2 and supported it with a new marketing blitz.Would that make any difference?

One of the larger problems is if they make another management decision like the one last generation where they erred on estimating HD TV adoption rates.

The other is building/rebuilding a stronger brand. Which takes time.

 

[tengiants]

So, what if they released a model without the gamepad at a much lower price, and also called it the Wii 2 and supported it with a new marketing blitz.Would that make any difference?

Not at all. I think all we're seeing is the decline of console in general, because the mainstream has gone to facebook/mobile/tablet gaming for the time being. This is going to affect PS4 and Xbone sales as well, they just haven't been out for as long. They are both in similar situations to where Nintendo was: they launched prematurely with no interesting games coming out in the next year. What we'll see is an initial spike of sales, banking on the holidays and the hyped fans, and a drastic decline from here.

 

[Shiggy]

People already have a console with a wiimote. it's called the wii and has been dead for years now. Part of the problem with the wiimote's appeal is that it's not dependent on graphics. There's no real reason for someone who has wii sports and wii sports resort to upgrade to an HD version of the same thing.

I think this is a major issue. I recently got a 3DS and bought MK7 and SM 3D Land. I'm actually kinda disappointed as both games are just more of the same. Where's the Nintendo that brought innovative and no titles up to the retail shelves? I think the low Wii U (and compared to DS also low 3DS) sales are well-deserved.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

"They've gotten worse as a company since the release of the Wii. Their games have been irrelevant with the odd third party game being better than most of theirs (No More Heroes, Xenoblade Chronicles, Dokapoon Kingdom)"

First of all, Xenoblade Chronicles is a first party game, that says everything about your knowledge.

Furthermore, if we want to discuss this objectively, their software still gets >90% everywhere with Mario Galaxy being the best rated game of all time at gamerankings,
Nintendo voted as the best publisher by EDGE (and most people agreed) and so on. If you don't like those games, it's your problem.


"while their own first party games like Skyward Sword are a huge step back from the previous titles"

That's again, your opinion, we had a lot of threads about "whats your favorite Zelda" in the past and opinions vary.


"or games like New Super Mario Bros have been milked worse than Call of Duty."

You know that they only release one NSMB per system and generation, not like Call of Duty, which gets yearly updates.

Xenoblade Chronicles was developed by Monolith Soft. Only published by Nintendo and as an exclusive to the system.
So it's a third party title.

Also, let's be honest, do you really think that a NINTENDO game is going to get a fair review? Do you think any company in their right mind is going to give a Mario game a low score? I guarantee any reviewer that gives Mario Galaxy a low score is going to be branded "liars" and "doing it for the clicks/site traffic". Skyward Sword sucked and isn't even close to the worth the scores it got. I don't work for a review firm so I can say that. But using +90% review scores is meaningless because it's Mario.

Whether it's a yearly release or not, it still doesn't take away that Mario is unchanged. It's still milked. It's using titles like: New Super Mario Bros 3D Land World.

I find it funny you're trying to make points justifying Nintendo on a thread that's about how badly the Wii U is doing.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Xenoblade Chronicles was developed by Monolith Soft. Only published by Nintendo and as an exclusive to the system.
So it's a third party title.

Also, let's be honest, do you really think that a NINTENDO game is going to get a fair review? Do you think any company in their right mind is going to give a Mario game a low score? I guarantee any reviewer that gives Mario Galaxy a low score is going to be branded "liars" and "doing it for the clicks/site traffic". Skyward Sword sucked and isn't even close to the worth the scores it got. I don't work for a review firm so I can say that. But using +90% review scores is meaningless because it's Mario.

Whether it's a yearly release or not, it still doesn't take away that Mario is unchanged. It's still milked. It's using titles like: New Super Mario Bros 3D Land World.

I find it funny you're trying to make points justifying Nintendo on a thread that's about how badly the Wii U is doing.

Nintendo owns MobolithSoft.

 

[BlackJace]

Xenoblade Chronicles was developed by Monolith Soft. Only published by Nintendo and as an exclusive to the system.
So it's a third party title.

What if I told you Monolithsoft is owned by Nintendo? Inform yourself next time.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

What if I told you Monolithsoft is owned by Nintendo? Inform yourself next time.

So it's second party. Completely ignore the rest of the post and focus on this one semi-error I made.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Xenoblade Chronicles was developed by Monolith Soft. Only published by Nintendo and as an exclusive to the system.
So it's a third party title.

Monolith Soft is a fully owned subsidiary of Nintendo Corporate Limited. They are Nintendo by every relevant definition of the word.

So it's second party. Completely ignore the rest of the post and focus on this one semi-error I made.

No, it's a first party. It's not a 'semi' error, but an actual one.

 

[H_Prestige]

So it's second party. Completely ignore the rest of the post.

Is Uncharted a second party game?

 

[gamergirly]

Xenoblade Chronicles was developed by Monolith Soft. Only published by Nintendo and as an exclusive to the system.
So it's a third party title.

Also, let's be honest, do you really think that a NINTENDO game is going to get a fair review? Do you think any company in their right mind is going to give a Mario game a low score? I guarantee any reviewer that gives Mario Galaxy a low score is going to be branded "liars" and "doing it for the clicks/site traffic". Skyward Sword sucked and isn't even close to the worth the scores it got. I don't work for a review firm so I can say that. But using +90% review scores is meaningless because it's Mario.

Whether it's a yearly release or not, it still doesn't take away that Mario is unchanged. It's still milked. It's using titles like: New Super Mario Bros 3D Land World.

I find it funny you're trying to make points justifying Nintendo on a thread that's about how badly the Wii U is doing.

Monolithsoft is what we coin a "2nd party". You're never going to see X on PS4 or XBone

Also, Mario Kart 8 hasn't been released yet. Why are you trying so hard to convince us it will fail?

 

[Jinko]

Then why isn't anyone buying the Wii U? Price? Nintendo could drop the Wii U to 199 tomorrow just by removing the gamepad.

But you can't just remove a device which is pivotal in how the system works, or are you suggesting they go back and patch out all those features in previous game, no doubt breaking the experience completely.

This issue won't be solved until they make a new console.

I suppose they could have a sticker on game boxes saying this game requires the Wiipad (sell it separately), but its just adding another level of confusion something Nintendo really doesn't need right now.

 

[BlackJace]

So it's second party. Completely ignore the rest of the post and focus on this one semi-error I made.

The rest of your post amounts to accusing the reviewers of having a "Nintendo game slant". Not much to argue with.

 

[Shiggy]

So it's second party. Completely ignore the rest of the post and focus on this one semi-error I made.

Just like Halo is a 2nd party game, right?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

This is a thread about potential changes to Nintendo's business strategy.

I know tensions are high because of Nintendo's situation, but it's not the time or place to discuss whether Metacritic/Gamerankings is an objective measurement of first-party output or whether reviewers are lying about their opinions when they say that they liked Mario and/or Zelda titles.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

The rest of your post amounts to accusing the reviewers of having a "Nintendo game slant". Not much to argue with.

Will a Zelda/Mario game get a bad review? Will they be constructively criticised or continue to the get 90's across the board? As we've seen...

Edit: Only addressing one point.

Back on topic:
Please understand...

 

[H_Prestige]

But you can't just remove a device which is pivotal in how the system works, or are you suggesting they go back and patch out all those features in previous game, no doubt breaking the experience completely.

This issue won't be solved until they make a new console.

I suppose they could have a sticker on game boxes saying this game requires the Wiipad (sell it separately), but its just adding another level of confusion something Nintendo really doesn't need right now.

Of course they could. The system can already function (turn on and start games) without the gamepad. Any other tweaks to the OS or game patches wouldn't be that difficult. The games that absolutely require gamepad can have a disclaimer. None of this is too much work for a determined company. But I don't think Nintendo has that determination and like I said, I think it's too late now for such a move anyway.

 

[Rocky]

"or games like New Super Mario Bros have been milked worse than Call of Duty."

You know that they only release one NSMB per system and generation, not like Call of Duty, which gets yearly updates.

You know they released 5 "beat the timer to the flagpole" Mario games in the past two years, right? That's more than the amount of CoD games that were released in the same time frame.

 

[Snakeyes]

or games like New Super Mario Bros have been milked worse than Call of Duty.

There have been 4 NSMB games released in 6 years.

 

[Captain Smoker]

/off topic, so edit

 

[Lasthope106]

I personally think that Nintendo realizes now how bad of a decision they made by making the WiiU severely underpowered when compared to the PS4 and Xbone. However, this terrible strategy is mitigated somewhat by the fact that they aren't losing money on hardware. Every WiiU to my knowledge sells at a profit. The 3DS is huge and it's going to continue being a monster in terms of sells. I believe Nintendo will just ride out the WiiU until the next cycle if there is one and restart the console business in a more traditional route. The 3DS alone and the money they made with Wii can sustain the company for decades.

 

[H_Prestige]

I personally think that Nintendo realizes now how bad of a decision they made by making the WiiU severely underpowered when compared to the PS4 and Xbone. However, this terrible strategy is mitigated somewhat by the fact that they aren't losing money on hardware. Every WiiU to my knowledge sells at a profit. The 3DS is huge and it's going to continue being a monster in terms of sells. I believe Nintendo will just ride out the WiiU until the next cycle if there is one and restart the console business in a more traditional route. The 3DS alone and the money they made with Wii can sustain the company for decades.

Every Wii U is sold at a loss. Xbones are sold at profit.

 

[TunaLover]

This is a thread about potential changes to Nintendo's business strategy.

I know tensions are high because of Nintendo's situation, but it's not the time or place to discuss whether Metacritic/Gamerankings is an objective measurement of first-party output or whether reviewers are lying about their opinions when they say that they liked Mario and/or Zelda titles.

Wow, you are mod now, congrats!, I always enjoyed your post, I just hope you keep your humor and irony now that you are important =P

Sorry for the off-topic

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Nothing will change until Iwata is pushed out. He is the roadblock to reform at Nintendo. Every move he has made in the past year or so has been to protect his own position at the expense of the company. Nintendo's long suffering investors also have very little power to remove him given the share voting structure.

 

[malboroking]

They did, it saw success, and then they systematically destroyed NoA post-N64 and everything returned to a myopic Japanese focus. Now the reaping.

My point is those things are much easier said than done =P

 

[theprodigy]

I'm buying stock in Nintendo this year, and not for that. I'm doing it to support the company I love

....that's fucking retarded

anyway while they could drop the Wii U quickly, I'm not really sure the next console would be any better in the first place, so I don't think it's worth it

 

[Apophis2036]

They can launch smartphone games only as a secondary revenue source. If they sold Mario games for $5 on the Appstore, they would need 10x the sales to match the revenue of 1 retail game and that's before Apple takes 30% cut. It's not a sustainable business for them.

Great OP, btw.

I agree with Iwata's overall view of 'when we put Mario up for $0.99 on mobile then why will someone pay $60 for Mario in the future ?' but what about the original NES Mario games on iOS for $0.99 ?, I would put money on them becoming some of the fastest and best selling mobile games ever released. Emulators prove that simple NES / SNES / Gameboy / GBA games can certainly be played using modern mobile phones. Once you get to analogue stick, twitch based games touchscreens start to show their limitations.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I agree with Iwata's overall view of 'when we put Mario up for $0.99 on mobile then why will someone pay $60 for Mario in the future ?' but what about the original NES Mario games on iOS for $0.99 ?, I would put money on them becoming some of the fastest and best selling mobile games ever released. Emulators prove that simple NES / SNES / Gameboy / GBA games can certainly be played using modern mobile phones. Once you get to analogue stick, twitch based games touchscreens start to show their limitations.

Yes, that makes sense, that's why I talked about "secondary revenue sources".

 

[TunaLover]

If they release a new system more soon as expected I hope they include some form of screen in the controller, you can say the company has made several mistakes but at least they care about leaving retro compatibility for the previous system, some Wii U games requires the screen to be played so...

 

[Captain Smoker]

Nothing will change until Iwata is pushed out. He is the roadblock to reform at Nintendo. Every move he has made in the past year or so has been to protect his own position at the expense of the company. Nintendo's long suffering investors also have very little power to remove him given the share voting structure.

Could you elaborate/explain this a bit (about their "voting power").

 

[qko]

You know they released 5 "beat the timer to the flagpole" Mario games in the past two years, right? That's more than the amount of CoD games that were released in the same time frame.

From a business standpoint though, those have been the games that have sold well for Nintendo. It is worrisome that they have essentially milked the well dry. I'm guessing that's why they felt putting out Mario Kart 8 after SM3DW was smarter than dragging out the pump once more if the scheduling was flipped.

 

[Snakeyes]

If they release a new system more soon as expected I hope they include some form of screen in the controller, you can say the company has made several mistakes but at least they care about leaving retro compatibility for the previous system, some Wii U games requires the screen to be played so...

They could put some of the Gamepad's streaming tech inside the 3DS successor.

 

[cw_sasuke]

....that's fucking retarded

anyway while they could drop the Wii U quickly, I'm not really sure the next console would be any better in the first place, so I don't think it's worth it

I will never understand why people use the term retard to offend other people. Is this accepted in america ? I always get pissed when listening to US podcast and they throw the term around like its nothing.

 

[Rizsparky]

A good strategy they could implement with virtual console would be to release more titles but use a more effective pricing strategy.

Making the less popular titles cheaper than the popular titles would mean that more people would purchase them, of course the more popular titles can be kept at the usual price. Anything is better than the crappy strategy that they are using at the moment.

 

[TunaLover]

They could put some of the Gamepad's streaming tech inside the 3DS successor.

IMO it's the right course of action, make an hybrid handhled-home-console, since the market is smaller now, there's no much room to have 2 Nintendo consoles, focusing in just one system could free alot of development resources.

 

[Graphics Horse]

you can say the company has made several mistakes but at least they care about leaving retro compatibility for the previous system, some Wii U games requires the screen to be played so...

That depends if it's still powerpc based like the last 3 consoles have been. It wouldn't surprise me if their cpu/gpu is more expensive than the competition, given it's built by 3 different companies under licence and assembled by a fourth. They might want something cheaper next time around, possibly ARM based if they don't follow the AMD train.
Regarding the screen, they can just sell one, it would just need a second wifi chip in the console to support it.

 

[Smurf]

Drop home consoles and stick with handhelds, possibly become 3rd party on consoles.

Why would the 2nd part ever be a serious option to them? If Nintendo abandoned home consoles they'd divert every resource to their handheld. Games sell well, are highly profitable and the more they can pump out on that platform the better for their market share and hardware sales. There's no real reason for them to ever make a console game again while they have a vested interested in another platform, it's all common resources after all.

 

[Apophis2036]

Yes, that makes sense, that's why I talked about "secondary revenue sources".

The amount of money they would make from even just the original Mario trilogy and the original Pokemon games on iOS / Android is literally mind boggling, even at $0.99 a piece. Didn't Square just release a DX game for mobile platforms and it sold 1 million copies in a weekend ?.

I have said it before but it's almost like Nintendo doesn't like money, I have £100 waiting for N64/Gamecube games with off TV play for my WiiU. Their Virtual Console library is perhaps their biggest potential revenue stream after hardware. It's taken them almost a year to get Super Mario World and A Link to the Past up on the UK eShop... unbelievable esp considering the extreme software shortage for the first six months of the year.

 

[bigmit3737]

I really curious as to what would happen if they could get their console down to $200.

Also , they need to make sure there are no more delays with software releases.

From what I'm reading here, their online store is a mess? Overcharged prices, tons of legacy console's games are unavailable yet,

This all need to be fixed by 2014.

If they learn from from their mistakes , I don't see why they wouldn't be able to bounce back next console; though I think consoles in general are going to have problem finding a substantial market in the future .