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[thuGG_pl]

Man, why are people fighting over Bloodborne vs W3 combat? Different aims for different games. Doesn't have to be a superior system; plus, the characters are written differently, and this factors in.

Why don't we all just join hands and have a sing-along? I'll get the beers.

Because some people wants everything to be Souls or BB, and if it's not, they complain.

 

[Horp]

Because some people wants everything to be Souls or BB, and if it's not they complain.

I think it's because people, like me, liked W2 a lot but never really liked the combat system. Many of us hoped that W3 would be a lot better. From what we have seen (note: I say seen, since we haven't tried it ourselves. But this whole thread is about discussing what we have seen in the trailer) that isn't the case.

The natural reaction is therefore of course to look at whatever game had a really good combat system, and also similar point of view and amount of enemies. Voila, Bloodborne.

 

[DOWN]

This thread is going wild. I guess I'll just mention that I really like that they gave this taste of what it is actually like in sequence. It felt different than most vertical slice type walkthroughs.

 

[SaberEdge]

I like the witcher as much as souls, and I never once bashed it, but to say witchers combat is more precise or even as good as from software is laughable. It is not in the same league.

The witcher is fantastic though overall, can you show where I bashed it? If I did I apologize, because this might be my goty.

Well, the first post I remember seeing from you was basically bashing The Witcher's combat and saying it sucks and can never come close to Bloodborne.

First of all, that's more of the hyperbolic nonsense I was talking about. Do the Souls games have fantastic combat? Yes. Are they a million times better than every other game? No, not even close. Especially not in aspects outside of the combat.

It honestly seems like some people are trying their hardest to downplay the Witcher 3 and nitpick it to death. Sure, criticisms are warranted --I've expressed some of my own-- but some of the stuff being said is just so absurd that it can't be taken seriously.

Do you think it would be reasonable for people to go into Bloodborne threads and start saying things like the narrative sucks, the graphics suck, the character models suck, the framerate sucks, ...oh, and the combat isn't really that good either...I got bored playing it and turned it off after 4 hours. Would that be ok? Because that's basically what some people are doing with The Witcher 3 (only in this case they haven't even played the game yet).

Anyway, I never said The Witcher 3's combat is more precise than or as good as Bloodborne's. I simply said the hit responses look better to me. Unlike some people in this thread I know that I really need to experience a game's combat first hand before I have a good sense of it.

 

[erawsd]

I think it's because people, like me, liked W2 a lot but never really liked the combat system. Many of us hoped that W3 would be a lot better. From what we have seen (note: I say seen, since we haven't tried it ourselves. But this whole thread is about discussing what we have seen in the trailer) that isn't the case.

The natural reaction is therefore of course to look at whatever game had a really good combat system, and also similar point of view and amount of enemies. Voila, Bloodborne.

Im one of those people myself. I was not at all fond of TW2s combat but I think this looks like a massive improvement. Can you explain why you think this looks "a bit worst"?

 

[Daverid]

The witcher 2 had bad combat, you'll find few people who disagree with that.

I actually think the people who hold the opinion that The Witcher 2's combat is bad are not in some kind of overwhelming majority that people like yourself seem to think.

Even in this thread (Where people who think the combat looks bad tend to be more vocal and harsh) there doesn't seem to be any kind of overwhelming skew towards people thinking it looks terrible vs those that think it looks fine, or are optimistic and are waiting to pass judgement until they actually get to control it.

 

[Horp]

Im one of those people myself. I was not at all fond of TW2s combat but I think this looks like a massive improvement. Can you explain why you think this looks "a bit worst"?

W2 was straight up dancing, with every move being a pirouette or something ninjalike. I didn't like it, but it was pretty consistent. From what I saw in this video, the combat is somewhere between dancing and a more "straight" system and it looks kind of floaty and the dancing moves looks out of place. I'm not sure though; i have to see more. And try it myself.

 

[zkorejo]

Do you think it would be reasonable for people to go into Bloodborne threads and start saying things like the narrative sucks, the graphics suck, the character models suck, the framerate sucks, ...oh, and the combat isn't really that good either...I got bored playing it and turned it off after 4 hours. Would that be ok? Because that's basically what some people are doing with The Witcher 3 (only in this case they haven't even played the game yet).

Exactly. I never understood why some people feel the need to post negative comments in a thread of a game that they are not interested in.

 

[Solidino]

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I guess hiring pro-gamers to help design the combat system and hours of play testing spent on it makes it "low priority" in your book. Mmkay.

Jesus wept, there are so many hyperboles in this thread. People saying that the voice acting, animations and combat are "abysmal" etc. without explaining what exactly is wrong with those elements. I guess they were never taught how to support their opinions.

Stuff like VA and animations are hard to critique with specific reasons/examples outside of "It looks/sounds bad to me". Personally, I tend to agree. Animations in these games have never been particularly impressive, and feel very stiff when it comes to interacting with NPCs. Combat is much better in that regard, IMO.

The VA thing, I can go either way. I don't care for the English VA, but I played W1/2 in with the Polish VA. I sure hope that's an option on PS4 for W3.

 

[varkuriru]

Looking good! The slow mo' on when attacking on horse back is a neat idea. Should alleviate some frustrations when lining up an attack

 

[notoccupanther]

This thread is a bit depressing at times. What's happened to just appreciating the time and effort these dudes have put into creating this ... it's an epic achievement.

begrudgers bedamned!

 

[epmode]

This thread is nuts. People are directly comparing combat mechanics from a massive, open world RPG to a focused game like Bloodborne, where the combat is the entire point. Of course it won't stand up! The open world developer can't afford to spend all of their time on combat when there's so much else to do. Not without an unlimited budget and a ridiculously long dev cycle, anyway.

Try comparing this to Fallout 3, Skyrim or Dragon Age: Inquisition. At least that makes sense.

 

[Tovarisc]

Looking good! The slow mo' on when attacking on horse back is a neat idea. Should alleviate some frustrations when lining up an attack

Slow mo' is so 2010, this is Witcher reflexes.

 

[Scientificreason]

What does it have to do with W2? Aren't we discussing here TW3?

You think it will be drastically different? Highly unlikely. Improved probably but not a drastic change.

 

[Scientificreason]

Exactly. I never understood why some people feel the need to post negative comments in a thread of a game that they are not interested in.

Do you have proof the same people dont have interest? Since when can you not have interest in a game and be critical?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

This thread is nuts. People are directly comparing combat mechanics from a massive, open world RPG to a focused game like Bloodborne, where the combat is the entire point. Of course it won't stand up! The open world developer can't afford to spend all of their time on combat when there's so much else to do. Not without an unlimited budget and a ridiculously long dev cycle, anyway.

Try comparing this to Fallout 3, Skyrim or Dragon Age: Inquisition. At least that makes sense.

I'm one of the people that mentioned it but like I said before, the game is impressive and I'm positive it will be good. But it's precisely BECAUSE everything is so high quality that it kind of stands out to me. And one again I'm not picky at all....and I don't even think it's bad. Something just seemed off when watching it and I was noting that. Maybe it's not even the combat maybe it's just the animations. I really don't know.

 

[SaberEdge]

What is this bullshit strawman.

The witcher 2 had bad combat, you'll find few people who disagree with that.

Not true. Every time I see someone like you say the Witcher 2 has horrible combat (and often trying to state your opinion as a fact) I see others respond by saying they enjoyed it, it was pretty good for them, they liked it, etc.

I liked the combat in the Witcher 3. It had its issues, but nothing that I couldn't pretty easily adapt to.

It's funny that some of you are trying so hard to sell this narrative of The Witcher 2 having terrible combat, but many people simply don't agree.

That certainly wasn't the picture painted by the reviews. Many reviews praised the combat system, or they had some complaints but also compliments as well. It definitely wasn't a case of reviewers saying "the combat is truly terrible, but, hey, the narrative and characters are pretty good, so, bam, we give it a 9!" That would be ridiculous. Nobody would suffer through horrible gameplay that comprises a huge percentage of the time you spend in the game just to experience a good story. Most people would just pick up a book in that case. It wouldn't have achieved an 88 metacritic score with as glaring a flaw as "bad combat".

 

[Last Hearth]

And this is another thing about these games, I've played both 1 and 2 and they always assume you've read the books and do a terrible job of explaining the setting, I've played both games and I still don't know what the the nilfgardians and the northern kingdoms mean and don't know why I should are about whose side I should be on.

 

[varkuriru]

Slow mo' is so 2010, this is Witcher reflexes.

I stand corrected . It was neat using "witcher senses" in the second one to throw daggers and bombs too.

 

[Scientificreason]

Well, the first post I remember seeing from you was basically bashing The Witcher's combat and saying it sucks and can never come close to Bloodborne.

First of all, that's more of the hyperbolic nonsense I was talking about. Do the Souls games have fantastic combat? Yes. Are they a million times better than every other game? No, not even close. Especially not in aspects outside of the combat.

It honestly seems like some people are trying their hardest to downplay the Witcher 3 and nitpick it to death. Sure, criticisms are warranted --I've expressed some of my own-- but some of the stuff being said is just so absurd that it can't be taken seriously.

Do you think it would be reasonable for people to go into Bloodborne threads and start saying things like the narrative sucks, the graphics suck, the character models suck, the framerate sucks, ...oh, and the combat isn't really that good either...I got bored playing it and turned it off after 4 hours. Would that be ok? Because that's basically what some people are doing with The Witcher 3 (only in this case they haven't even played the game yet).

Anyway, I never said The Witcher 3's combat is more precise than or as good as Bloodborne's. I simply said the hit responses look better to me. Unlike some people in this thread I know that I really need to experience a game's combat first hand before I have a good sense of it.

Complains people are using hyperbole, says bloodbornes combat sucks....yeah ill ignore you from now on, not taking anything you say serious. You seem like you get,angry when legit criticism hits a game you like and lash out. I love the witcher have it preordered, but I can be objective about it, I dont think you can.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Recent videos make me optimistic for the combat as the feedback of hit detection and dodging, in animation and hitboxes, looks more than serviceable for a 3D action game. Same goes for the camera. All of these were massive problems with The Witcher 2's bizarre combat system, but Wild Hunt looks a lot more traditional.

I can get the concern that it looks floaty, but I've been under the impression this is kinda how Witchers are supposed to fight. That is to say it's not like 'Souls or realistic military, but like they're super human fast and accurate, the sword cutting through shit almost like a lightsaber.

That's how it looks in the vids, Geralt rapidly dashing between targets and landing blows almost effortlessly, while also quickly dodging out the way of attacks. Like in terms of athleticism, speed, and precision, there's no one who can match a Witcher.

My only issue with the combat is those last strikes where Geralt splits things in half, it feels like it should have more of a visual impact than a standard sword swing. But otherwise I agree that the rest looks much improved over previous games, still probably not as good as it could or should be but definitely better. I hope there's enough incentives like upgrades and newer attacks etc to keep it fun because I can see the combat becoming repetitive and trivial after a while. Like I'll end up dodging fights instead of engaging

 

[Horp]

The problem is most prominent right here, imo:
https://youtu.be/KrXxdy9Qgpk?
t=3m34s

Why the spin before the strike? What is this, Savate? Capoiera?
Why the jump before the next strike?

Can't he just do an overhead strike then another overhead strike?

Most annoying is that those moves are very likely happening all automatically when just pressing the default attack-button.

 

[loganclaws]

Yes, why doesn't this open world, narrative driven role playing game that offers multiple solutions to almost every quest have a combat system similar to the one in Dark Souls/BB;a game that's purely focused on combat. Unacceptable.

 

[GnawtyDog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrXxdy9Qgpk

Why must youtube make me sign in to every damn mature-flagged video - jezzzz.

Game looks great - hopefully the combat doesn't annoy me as much as I think it will.

 

[Daverid]

And this is another thing about these games, I've played both 1 and 2 and they always assume you've read the books and do a terrible job of explaining the setting, I've played both games and I still don't know what the the nilfgardians and the northern kingdoms mean and don't know why I should are about whose side I should be on.

I mean absolutely no offence here, but it seems like you just haven't understood the events of the games well enough.

Now obviously by now I've read the books, but there was a time when I hadn't, and my knowledge came entirely from just the games. Sure, I didn't have quite the same level of depth about the world that I do now, but I understood the world perfectly well enough. One playthrough of the series generally gets you a basic understanding of everything, then generally that second playthrough is where a lot more stuff will click, as you read more, pick up on subtle stuff and make different choices throughout the game leading to a deeper understanding of events, characters etc.

I really don't know what else to say, other than that from my experience, the games do a totally fine job of explaining events, characters, factions, their motivations etc. If you still seem really lost on it all after playing the games, I suggest playing again and paying a closer attention to everything or you could always just go read the books, they're pretty good

 

[Horp]

Yes, why doesn't this open world, narrative driven role playing game that offers multiple solutions to almost every quest have a combat system similar to the one in Dark Souls/BB;a game that's purely focused on combat. Unacceptable.

Or, they could have something more similar to what they have, but just stop forcing my character to spin and jump like a circus artist.

 

[Tovarisc]

The problem is most prominent right here, imo:
https://youtu.be/KrXxdy9Qgpk?
t=3m34s

Why the spin before the strike? What is this, Savate? Capoiera?
Why the jump before the next strike?

Can't he just do an overhead strike then another overhead strike?

Most annoying is that those moves are very likely happening all automatically when just pressing the default attack-button.

I haven't read books, but what I have read here and some wiki isn't that like how many Witchers fight? They don't "hack 'n slash" like knights, but basically "dance".

 

[Horp]

I haven't read books, but what I have read here and some wiki isn't that like how many Witchers fight? They don't "hack 'n slash" like knights, but basically "dance".

Oh well there you have it then. I haven't read the books (and have no interest to do so), but if that's the case then it does really make sense why he moves like that. Imo it's detrimental to gameplay and looks pretty silly, however.

 

[Clear]

I'm one of the people that mentioned it but like I said before, the game is impressive and I'm positive it will be good. But it's precisely BECAUSE everything is so high quality that it kind of stands out to me. And one again I'm not picky at all....and I don't even think it's bad. Something just seemed off when watching it and I was noting that. Maybe it's not even the combat maybe it's just the animations. I really don't know.

That was my feeling as well, the stuff that's not so impressive really sticks out because the overall quality of the presentation is so high.

The truth of the matter is that Dragon's Dogma showed how dynamic and exciting its possible to make open-world combat, and if you're a fan of that approach its difficult not to be somewhat disappointed when a game that is otherwise streets ahead technically doesn't appear to be matching it.

 

[Denton]

Or, they could have something more similar to what they have, but just stop forcing my character to spin and jump like a circus artist.

This is funny because it looks like they finally nailed the combat to look and feel as described in books, something witcher fans wanted, so now they get hate from nonwitcher people for it.

 

[whatsinaname]

Why isn't the Combat weighty and visceral like Bloodborne - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Boss Fights epic like in Dragon's Dogma - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Facial Animations more expressive like in L.A.Noire - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Player Animations more fluid like in The Order 1886 - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't Voice Acting more emotive like in The Last of Us - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't the Horse Racing more fun like in Japan World Cup 3 - Preorder cancelled

 

[SaberEdge]

Complains people are using hyperbole, says bloodbornes combat sucks....yeah ill ignore you from now on, not taking anything you say serious. You seem like you get,angry when legit criticism hits a game you like and lash out. I love the witcher have it preordered, but I can be objective about it, I dont think you can.

I don't think you are reading what I've written.

First you claim I said The Witcher 3 has better or more precise combat than Bloodborne when what I actually said was that I think the hit responses look more precise and better animated in The Witcher 3.

And now you think I said Bloodborne's combat sucks? I'm confused. I was giving an example of people going into a Bloodborne article and just criticizing nearly everything about the game, and I asked you if you thought such a thing would be alright.

I don't know how you've missed it several times, but I'll say it again: I think Bloodborne has fantastic combat and I really like the game.

In any case, you reacted highly defensively of Bloodborne as soon as someone said something even slightly negative about it, even though it's in a thread about another game. I somehow doubt you would be so tolerant of people nitpicking Bloodborne to death in one of its own threads.

 

[cackhyena]

Why isn't the Combat weighty and visceral like Bloodborne - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Boss Fights epic like in Dragon's Dogma - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Facial Animations more expressive like in L.A.Noire - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Player Animations more fluid like in The Order 1886 - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't Voice Acting more emotive like in The Last of Us - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't the Horse Racing more fun like in Japan World Cup 3 - Preorder cancelled

Well now that you've stacked it like that...preorder cancelled.

 

[MichaelFassbender]

Can't please everyone. Plus, we haven't gotten the feel for it yet; playing with it will be a bit different than just watching. That's the way with most games, in truth. Sense of movement will be something to experience. I'm certainly looking forward to it. Have been for years.

 

[Horp]

Why isn't the Combat weighty and visceral like Bloodborne - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Boss Fights epic like in Dragon's Dogma - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Facial Animations more expressive like in L.A.Noire - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Player Animations more fluid like in The Order 1886 - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't Voice Acting more emotive like in The Last of Us - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't the Horse Racing more fun like in Japan World Cup 3 - Preorder cancelled

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but for the record, my preorder is not cancelled; and pretty much all the people talking about the seeminly dissapointing aspects of the combat in W3 on the last pages have all said that they are still excited for the game.

So this list would make a lot more sense:
Why isn't the Combat weighty and visceral like Bloodborne - Preorder still not cancelled

Why aren't Boss Fights epic like in Dragon's Dogma - Preorder still not cancelled

Why aren't Facial Animations more expressive like in L.A.Noire - Preorder still not cancelled

Why aren't Player Animations more fluid like in The Order 1886 - Preorder still not cancelled

Why isn't Voice Acting more emotive like in The Last of Us - Preorder still not cancelled

Why isn't the Horse Racing more fun like in Japan World Cup 3 - Preorder still not cancelled

Why not? Cause so many other things looks totally amazing?

 

[BigTnaples]

Started reading the first book last night. Damned awesome so far. Dunno why but I always expected these to poorly translate, but they don't. Looking forward to understanding more about the Lore.

 

[DOWN]

Why isn't the Combat weighty and visceral like Bloodborne - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Boss Fights epic like in Dragon's Dogma - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Facial Animations more expressive like in L.A.Noire - Preorder cancelled

Why aren't Player Animations more fluid like in The Order 1886 - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't Voice Acting more emotive like in The Last of Us - Preorder cancelled

Why isn't the Horse Racing more fun like in Japan World Cup 3 - Preorder cancelled

Lol we'll find out if it does any particular thing best when it releases, or if it overcomes the limitations thanks to the sum of its parts

 

[Maedhros]

People are really going all out on the "reaching" to keep looking for problems on this game and make it look like it'll be bad.

 

[NotUS]

People are really going all out on the "reaching" to keep looking for problems on this game and make it look like it'll be bad.

The only problem with this game is that it's not out yet.

 

[Acinixys]

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but for the record, my preorder is not cancelled; and pretty much all the people talking about the seeminly dissapointing aspects of the combat in W3 on the last pages have all said that they are still excited for the game.

Pretty sure hes griefing all the whiners in this thread who are bitching about a game that no one has played yet

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

I don't think you are reading what I've written.

.

In any case, you reacted highly defensively of Bloodborne as soon as someone said something even slightly negative about it, even though it's in a thread about another game. I somehow doubt you would be so tolerant of people nitpicking Bloodborne to death in one of its own threads.

I'd give up, quick look at his post history shows he first posted on sunday and has over 400+ now.
Majority of which saying "Bloodborne best videogame ever".

Started reading the first book last night. Damned awesome so far. Dunno why but I always expected these to poorly translate, but they don't. Looking forward to understanding more about the Lore.

Which book did you start with?

 

[Tovarisc]

The only problem with this game is that it's not out yet.

So pre-order cancelled?

 

[EatChildren]

It's probably worth considering this quest is an outright prologue/tutorial quest. The CDPR dev straight up says these are short and built around teaching you the mechanics. It's accessible in the prologue area (White Orchard), the player at the time hasn't even progressed the first opening quest, and they're level 1.

 

[BigTnaples]

I'd give up, quick look at his post history shows he first posted on sunday and has over 400+ now.
Majority of which saying "Bloodborne best videogame ever".



Which book did you start with?

Last Wish. Is that not the first title?

 

[Horp]

Pretty sure hes griefing all the whiners in this thread who are bitching about a game that no one has played yet

Read the rest of my post?
People aren't cancelling their preorders (= they are still excited about the game), but whats the damn point with a gaming forum if we aren't to discuss our opinions about games and game related things. And if you didn't want opinions based on a trailer for a video game, don't go into a thread dedicated to opinions based on a trailer for a video game.

 

[Scientificreason]

I don't think you are reading what I've written.

First you claim I said The Witcher 3 has better or more precise combat than Bloodborne when what I actually said was that I think the hit responses look more precise and better animated in The Witcher 3.

And now you think I said Bloodborne's combat sucks? I'm confused. I was giving an example of people going into a Bloodborne article and just criticizing nearly everything about the game, and I asked you if you thought such a thing would be alright.

I don't know how you've missed it several times, but I'll say it again: I think Bloodborne has fantastic combat and I really like the game.

In any case, you reacted highly defensively of Bloodborne as soon as someone said something even slightly negative about it, even though it's in a thread about another game. I somehow doubt you would be so tolerant of people nitpicking Bloodborne to death in one of its own threads.

You are wrong....I am tolerant of others opinions, bloodborne is not perfect neither is the witcher. I am ok with that, you don not seem to handle witcher criticism well.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Last Wish. Is that not the first title?

Its abit complicated to explain, but the stories in last wish actually take place before the sword of destiny.
Either is a fine start, but if you've played the witcher 2 the first story of SoD is very cool.

 

[Primethius]

If your argument centers around the fact that reviewers thought The Witcher 2 had good combat, you probably should stop and reconsider your position.

 

[Galileo]

Looks pretty good, although I'm bothered by the flashy quest markers on the minimap, carriage tracks and similar clues are much better at guiding the player without breaking immersion or downplaying exploration. (and yes, I'm aware that such icons can be turned off)

Also, I can't help but feel that "bad writing" is now used so carelessly that it has become a meaningless buzzword.