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[dan2026]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

 

[Griss]

"I don't like the price point therefore I'm not buying it." - Acceptable, and how I personally feel.
"I don't like the price point therefore I'm pirating it." - Not acceptable whatsoever
"I can't afford it right now therefore I'm pirating it." - Not acceptable, somewhat understandable

This shit would drive me crazy if I was a game dev. Absolutely crazy.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

And yet Denuvo is hated for its haltering of game archival. Plus I bet this isn't anything new to Blow because Braid was pirated plenty as well.

Ideal scenario: Denuvo is kept in for a few months and then removed like 6 months later. Everyone wins.

 

[AstroNut325]

Hey Mr. Blow.

1 pirated != 1 sale lost.

Have any data to back up this claim?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Hey Mr. Blow.

1 pirated != 1 sale lost.

And it's not equal to zero either.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If there was a physical release I'd be all over this game. But I'm not paying $40 for a digital game, especially one that might make me nauseous and be unable to return or resell it if it does.

 

[Kinyou]

Release a demo.

People may not want to risk that sort of cash on what is essentially a puzzle game.

Thanks to steam refund you could actually test the game for about one hour and a half and then just ask for your money back if you don't like it.

 

[OnionPowder]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

That Jonathan Blow is indie and his last game was $15

 

[Alucrid]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

does it have multiplayer? does it have cool level up sounds? can i buy a season pass with it?

 

[dave is ok]

I'm shocked that a new release is at the top of the pirated games list.

The SteamSpy data is too new to be accurate. The game is selling well and Jonathan Blow isn't going to go bankrupt. The sky is not falling.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

It could have been 99 cents and people would still pirate.

Pirates will pirate.

 

[Razzorn34]

Every new release goes straight to the top of torrent charts. Doesn't indicate how much it's actually being pirated

Yep. It doesn't matter what the price point was. It was going to be the same regardless. Don't think for a second that it's because this is $40. If it was $5, it would have been the same.

 

[Seiru]

It was two tweets, and not really that vitriolic either. I don't think he's obsessed.

Well I blame the article and myself for not reading the source tweets then.

 

[prudislav]

Where is the evidence for that claim? It's really not outlandish to assume that a sizable number of people would be willing to pirate a $40 game, but at the same time pay for a $5-10 game on sale.

yep there is quite a lot of countries when the monthly salary for most people is around $200

 

[The Jackdog]

There's nothing wrong with the price point.

to YOU.

YOU played it and thought it was a $40 dollar game. A lot of other people think its way too expensive for the content. im one of them. i like the witness. i really really enjoy it. it doesnt feel worth 40 bucks to me. But i bought it and im happy. A lot of other people see that $40 as a high barrier of entry for a game they arent even sure is for them.

Its also one of the top selling games on steam and has been for awhile. Seems real lame to complain about it when its a success so far. EVERY new release becomes the top torrented game on release.

 

[Kindekuma]

Release a demo.

People may not want to risk that sort of cash on what is essentially a puzzle game.

I wholeheartedly agree to this, the lack of demos lately for major games (besides alpha and beta access) really effects my decision as a buyer.

I'll admit that I have pirated games before just to try them out, those that I've liked I always did end up buying and those that didn't, well I obviously uninstalled them.

 

[Timeaisis]

I agree a demo would be a good idea. Most people have no idea how The Witness plays and many reviews have mentioned it's a hard game to recommend without playing it first.

 

[Tenebrous]

Ideal scenario: Denuvo is kept in for a few months and then removed like 6 months later. Everyone wins.

Except the legitimate buyers who are stuck with that shit in their game download.

 

[Mass Effect]

Sucks, but pirates are going to pirate regardless. Instead, he should focus on maximizing sales (which I'm sure that's what he's doing anyway). Like others have said, something like a demo would be nice.

This might be a hint for companies to first release on consoles to ensure sales then eventually release it on the PC to get whatever is left over.

Fuck that noise. How would that change anything exactly? You think a bunch of pirates are going to go and buy consoles suddenly?

 

[EatinOlives]

I thought $40 bucks sounded a bit steep (not that it's not worth that, but just what it's worth to people as a puzzler), so this isn't surprising.

People pirate mobile apps too, where shit goes for $1-5. The cost of the product rarely matters for chronic pirates.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

Not enough guns for that price


Seriously, people think because it's a puzzle game it should arbitrarily cost less.

 

[Zach]

99,999% of those pirates wouldn't have bought game anyways. They are not lost sales.

Where's the data to support this claim?

 

[FloorEssence]

SteamSpy shows sales somewhere in the 23k+ range last time I checked. And who knows if all of these were bought from the Steam store.

Man, really scared about him and his team - this is shitty.

Steamspy can't get accurate sales data until several days after launch, I don't think it's been long enough to count on Steam Spy tbh.

 

[Alucrid]

"I don't like the price point therefore I'm not buying it." - Acceptable, and how I personally feel.
"I don't like the price point therefore I'm pirating it." - Not acceptable whatsoever
"I can't afford it right now therefore I'm pirating it." - Not acceptable, somewhat understandable

This shit would drive me crazy if I was a game dev. Absolutely crazy.

the third statement is worse than the second because they're just trying to make themselves feel better about pirating it.

 

[entremet]

Meanwhile..

What's the correlation here?

Both games are not remotely comparable, both in scope, which is fine! And in price.

 

[thomasmahler]

There's not much you can do about it - We saw torrents of Ori popping up with literally hundreds of thousands of downloads...

Pirates gonna pirate - It's clear that if people don't support these games by buying them, they just won't get made again, cause nobody puts a bunch of money into development of a game that doesn't even make its money back.

I feel for Blow since I think Witness is a great game and I bought it + a bunch of copies for friends upon release, but I don't know how much it helps at this point to publicly speak out against pirates.

 

[jett]

Curiously I had just checkout the game's numbers on steamspy, pretty dismal. Also checked the buccaneer's cove, it has less than 2k seeders and leechers. Sadly for Blow, I think not much interest has been generated for this game. If it's also bombing on PS4, then that's that.

 

[GhostTrick]

This is the danger you have with releasing on PC. Its sadly unavoidable.

The whole debate would be about if piracy is a lost sale. Which raise the question: Did it sold well on platforms without piracy ? Would it have sold well without piracy ? I don't think it's related when you see Undertale's sales. Over a million and we're talking here about a smaller game, which would take no effort to pirate at all.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Release a demo.

People may not want to risk that sort of cash on what is essentially a puzzle game.

Steam players get to play games for two hours before deciding if they want a refund or not.

That Jonathan Blow is indie and his last game was $15

His last game was nowhere near as ambitious as the Witness. He's not charging a triple A price, his game has more content than a lot of $60 games people are willing to pay full price for, people are holding the title to ridiculous standards.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

If there was a physical release I'd be all over this game. But I'm not paying $40 for a digital game, especially one that might make me nauseous and be unable to return or resell it if it does.

If youre buying it on steam, you can get a refund within two hours of game time

I'm assuming you might be a ps4 gamer, though, and im not sure what their refund policy is

Curiously I had just checkout the game's numbers on steamspy, pretty dismal. Also checked the buccaneer's cove, it has less than 2k seeders and leechers. Sadly for Blow, I think not much interest has been generated for this game. If it's also bombing on PS4, then that's that.

it's sold ~25k @ $40. That's a million dollars worth of sales.

It's not a slouch

 

[CollectedDust]

The number of people defending pirates is really sad. Not that it's a good solution, but I understand why this causes some devs to release on PC late if at all. Shame that there isn't a way to stop this practice, because not releasing on PC is a poor solution at best.

 

[daveo42]

Isn't this an example of pricing yourself out of the market? I mean, piracy is completely wrong, but I doubt the vast majority of pirates would have paid $40 for the game in the first place.

Yes, let's blame Blow for people pirating his game. It's totally worth $40 and those who don't recognize are misinformed on the nature of The Witness.

 

[Draft]

PC release was a mistake. It's nothing but pirates.

 

[Tagyhag]

Ideal scenario: Denuvo is kept in for a few months and then removed like 6 months later. Everyone wins.

That's ideal alright, just not realistic.

Once Denuvo is on there it'll stay there.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Hopefully PS4 sales are good

I did my part.
Downloading now and fully prepared to feel like an idiot. :}

 

[Griss]

When companies delay the PC release, and release on both consoles first, I wonder if that is an attempt to curb piracy. I wonder if Blow would have been better off releasing on PS4/XB1 first, then delaying the PC/Mobile releases.

I was shocked that he didn't do this, tbh. Not being on PC (for a while at least) is the most effective anti-piracy measure there is.

 

[UncleSporky]

Hm, he's talking about being able to afford making their next game and such, but I thought I'd read an article about how this one was exhausting and he didn't know what the future would hold, if he would even do another. But I could be wrong, maybe I"m thinking of another developer.

 

[Chola]

Paying $60 for MGS5 , Witcher 3 and Bloodborne and $45 for witness doesn't feel right to me, will buy once it hits $30-$35

 

[Kintaro]

You're not entitled to a game just because you can't pay for it. That's wrong and devs should speak out against it.

The piracy apologists in this thread holy shit.

No one is apologizing. It's just a fact. There are people who aren't your customers and will steal your shit. Period. Nothing you can do. There are also tons of people who are looking to buy your shit too. It is there that there is always something you can do.

People game share on consoles. Those are sales lost as well.

But let me waste some energy on the obvious.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Ideal scenario: Denuvo is kept in for a few months and then removed like 6 months later. Everyone wins.

I've only seen CD Projekt do something similar when they patched DRM out of Witcher 2 in a couple of days/weeks. This would be a good idea but still annoys the paying customer with DRM for a while.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

Indie games need to be cheap, duh

Pricing on the BR storefront is incredibly fair. It's a pity my interest in puzzle games has burned out for a while otherwise I'd be all over this.

 

[Hoje0308]

Exactly. It's weird that people think these people will happily steal 8 years of someone's hard work with all disregard for moral conscience, but if it was $20 they'd be like "oh hey I should make sure I buy it and give the dev hard earned money"

Not likely

Yeah, unless you take the Apple approach of pricing everything at a point that it becomes an impulse buy, you're going to get screwed by pirates. Plus, there's still this attitude about indie games being of lesser value regardless of content that affects sales as well.

 

[darkinstinct]

He even sells a DRM free version on his website/HumbleStore, that's just asking for disaster. The smart thing would have been to either do PS4 and XB1 first, PC months later or invest in working DRM.

 

[whitehawk]

I'm surprised he didn't do a timed console exclusive for this reason.

 

[GusZamboni]

feels bad about Blow, but the major complain within my friend circles are about the price. Not that it do not deserve the money, but is not everyone that are ready to spend 40 dollars on the game

 

[SuperDowns]

Hey Mr. Blow.

1 pirated != 1 sale lost.

Don't be a dick about his perfectly valid point. Who knows if that pirater would have bought it the next time it will go on sale? That is a flimsy argument.

 

[Kinyou]

Also I dont get the $40 complaint.

The game has more content than most $60 games.
What metric are we even holdong it to?

The mentality around pricing is weird and often doesn't feel all that rational.

Blow himself said that it would sound "greedy" if he'd ask for $60

 

[kiguel182]

It sucks that some of those people aren't just buying the game instead or waiting for a sale if they can't afford it.

The game is amazing and easily deserved the 40 dollars.

 

[Guess Who]

Piracy doesn't equal lost sales. Those who pirate the game do so because they either lack the money to buy it, or are curious about the game, but due to the lack of a demo or other trial mechanism, need to vet the game.

You heard it here first, folks - literally no one, and especially not a pretty significant number of people, pirates things just because you can get things that cost money for free.

 

[Haganeren]

There's nothing wrong with the price point.

Yeah no, i have no problem paying for a physical object for 50€... 40€ for a digital one is far too big for me. I want to protest by not buying the game.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the piracy. I know i will myself wait for a physical release or when the price will drop in one year. Having the game now and not paying anything isn't fair as well.