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[tearsofash]

Yes and no...

I mean, it's really hard to define "transition" these days as some people use it analogous with the act of starting HRT and the changes it makes but others refer to it as the act of transitioning from one gender presentation to the other and others yet define it as the whole process from accepting yourself to living the rest of your life.

not everyone even transitions either.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

not everyone even transitions either.

I disagree with that. Part of transition is the process of self discovery, from a hallow husk with all feelings repressed to an actual person with emotions.

 

[tearsofash]

i mean like physical transitioning, ofc there's a mental transition going on.

 

[1upsuper]

Great thread! Do you have any advice on how to support people who are transitioning? My very good friend told me that they're trans and still trying to figure things out, and I want to help them the best that I can.

I myself am not trans, but I've experienced a sort of physical dysphoria as a result of my disability. The perfect alignment between internal and external being is definitely something a lot of people take for granted. It is challenging to not have a body that totally reflects who you are inside. I hope I do not offend anyone with this anecdote. Obviously the two situations are very different.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

Great thread! Do you have any advice on how to support people who are transitioning? My very good friend told me that they're trans and still trying to figure things out, and I want to help them the best that I can.

I myself am not trans, but I've experienced a sort of physical dysphoria as a result of my disability. The perfect alignment between internal and external being is definitely something a lot of people take for granted. It is challenging to not have a body that totally reflects who you are inside. I hope I do not offend anyone with this anecdote. Obviously the two situations are very different.

You should read this and ask any questions you may have afterwards. It's not perfect or 100% complete but should give you a solid idea.

https://www.pflag.org/sites/default/files/Our Trans Loved Ones.pdf

 

[1upsuper]

You should read this and ask any questions you may have afterwards. It's not perfect or 100% complete but should give you a solid idea.

https://www.pflag.org/sites/default/files/Our Trans Loved Ones.pdf

This looks great. Thank you!

 

[mckmas8808]

No, but I know 99% of others will disagree with me on that.

Edit: Well, let me clarify. "Refuse" may fall under a "yes" for me, but there could be other reasons for that (like excelsiorlef's mention below of wanting biological children). Not interested in because they aren't attracted to trans people? That I don't consider transphobic.

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

 

[TenCentCoast]

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

You would be hard-pressed to find a trans person who would be uninterested in dating a cis person. The same is not true of a cis person uninterested in dating trans people. That's where the inherent bigotry comes in.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

It's a weird area. Like, no one holds it against a gay man who says "I don't date women", because of course we understand on a basic level what's happening there. He doesn't find women attractive in any way.

But when you start talking about race, it muddies the issue a lot. I don't think it's unreasonable to say "I've never been attracted to someone of this race", but I do think it's shitty to say "I don't date people of this race". The latter makes it sound as though you've sampled enough members of that race to know you want nothing to do with them as a whole, and that definitely sounds racist to me.

The trans issue is somewhere in the middle there in my mind. Sure, I can understand if someone is into dating men, and when they encounter a trans man who still has their original female genitalia, those aren't the kind of genitals they're into.

But if we're talking about someone who has fully transitioned and is presenting themselves in such a manner that they are otherwise indistinguishable from a cis man, then that feels a lot more like a phobia than just your preference.

Of course, from what a number of trans friends have mentioned, it sounds like there's a lot of trans men and women who don't date cis men and women because A. they don't want to chance a bad/violent reaction and B. cis men and women just don't have the point of reference and experience that other trans people would have, and thus wouldn't "get" the things they have to go through. Both of those are pretty good reasons IMO.

 

[Ketkat]

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

How is not wanting to date someone because of their race not racist?

 

[driggonny]

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

I mean, don't people usually consider that logic racist? Isn't that the whole problem with the gay dating scene? (Not that that applies to you at all)

 

[Clov]

I just wanted to say thanks for making this thread. It's a topic I think a lot of GAF needs to learn more about, and this should help.

I'm not sure if I fit into the trans label, but I can relate to some of the struggles. I'm nonbinary myself, and I finally worked up the courage to have my friend group using they/them pronouns with me. It seems small, but it's made me feel a lot better.

 

[Beth Cyra]

This question you answered is interesting. Wouldn't it just be a perference though? If me being a black male am not interested in dating white woman, that doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. It's just a preference to date black woman.

I'd like to believe the same logic would apply to cis-gender and transgender people.

That is mostly considered a very racist thing.

Like when White Women say this they do get ravaged as being racist (I would say rightfully damn so too) and I think its viewed pretty universally between White/Black Men/Women.

Now if you want a child? Then nope, not transphobic at all if you don't want to adopt.

Just Cis/Trans? That is a problem. You are now basing a woman simply based on something that she has no control over and may not even be a factor in her life anymore.

Like say if you meet a nice black woman and she is pretty, you to hit it off and you two have a great time together, then all of a sudden you find out she is Trans. Nothing was wrong, she may even have a fully working vagina and you'd be none the wiser and there is no issue accept that she is trans.

Its not suddenly a preference to turn it on her and say no, that would be just as bad as a White man finding out a women is part black and being like "nah wonderful lady, Im a bigot and you aint good enough."

 

[mckmas8808]

You would be hard-pressed to find a trans person who would be uninterested in dating a cis person. The same is not true of a cis person uninterested in dating trans people. That's where the inherent bigotry comes in.

I don't think that's fair to the trans experience. I can't speak on the experience myself, but from what little I understand there's more that comes with it than just dealing with a cis man or woman. Dealing with a cis person is complex enough and for most of us, we don't understand what it's like to be trans. Most of us haven't heard of it until maybe high school (I'm in my 30s so I don't know what the kids are learning these days). Sometimes it's just easier to deal with what you know.

Relating it back to race, sometimes just dating someone within your own race makes things easier due to them just understanding you. There isn't an expectation that you always have to explain to them why you don't want your girlfriend's dad calling you "BOY".

There're things that trans people have experience that they'll have to explain to cis people and personally some people may not want to go through that with a love one. As a friend, cool but as someone to have a relationship with the expectations are different. And that's not even getting into what if you want to naturally have kids and you want to get married someday.

How is not wanting to date someone because of their race not racist?

Having a strong preference for someone of a specific race doesn't mean you are anti another race. Just because I love dark meat of the chicken, doesn't mean I hate the Breast or the Wing. It just means I'd rather have a Leg or a Thigh.

I mean, don't people usually consider that logic racist? Isn't that the whole problem with the gay dating scene? (Not that that applies to you at all)

Not gay so can't answer that part, but the logic works. There's certain things that black woman or people of African decent possess that a white woman can't and more than likely won't have or understand. Being pro black in your dating doesn't have to mean you are anti-white. And in the same way being pro CIS doesn't have to mean you are anti Trans.

I will like to say at this point (since I'm generating some good questions and feedback), I'm mainly here to learn and not to dictate the conversation. I'm a guest and I've always been interested in learn about people that are different from me and all ways. This is only one of those ways.

And me and my wife are watching this show on FOX called STAR and they have a transwoman on the show who actually plays as one as well. Queen Latifah is her mom on the show and from my point of view, it looks like they are handling it well and doing a good job of showing what it could be like growing up in that way with a mom that's heavy in the church and all.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

How is not wanting to date someone because of their race not racist?

So there's a direct correlation between preference and sense of superiority? How do you quantify that?

 

[KaoteK]

Awesome post OP, you rock!

 

[cryptic]

I think I'm a girl somedays,I'd like to transition, but I'm mostly into other girls.
So I'd be transitioning into a lesbian.
It's hopeless.

 

[TenCentCoast]

I think I'm a girl somedays,I'd like to transition, but I'm mostly into other girls.
So I'd be transitioning into a lesbian.
It's hopeless.

Just so you know, if you ever need to talk about things, both myself and many other people at TransGAF would be happy to talk. It's not hopeless.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

You would be hard-pressed to find a trans person who would be uninterested in dating a cis person. The same is not true of a cis person uninterested in dating trans people. That's where the inherent bigotry comes in.

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted, and I'd rather date cute queers any day. Most of my trans friends have similar preferences.

 

[QuantumSquid]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted, and I'd rather date cute queers any day. Most of my trans friends have similar preferences.

 

[TenCentCoast]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted, and I'd rather date cute queers any day. Most of my trans friends have similar preferences.

Well, I guess I'm the odd one out. I've never experienced this preference from trans people before. I certainly don't have that preference, and I'm dating a cis girl myself. I get your anger and frustration. I feel it too and I joke with my queer friends the way you're talking.

 

[driggonny]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted, and I'd rather date cute queers any day. Most of my trans friends have similar preferences.

Seems like a poor attitude to have :/

I love you QuantumSquid <3 pls don't leave

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted

K

 

[Fat4all]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted

im not that gross...

 

[xelios]

Cis people are gross, boring, inherently bigoted, and I'd rather date cute queers any day. Most of my trans friends have similar preferences.

Extremely bigoted post. You are exactly what you hate.

 

[Yayate]

The bolded isn't always true. Some trans people aren't body dysphoric at all, and others like myself learned dysphoria and had to unlearn it. When I was first figuring out that I was trans and beginning my social transition, I was pretty sure I'd have bottom surgery at some point. It took years to unpack the insecurities that made me think I wanted that. I still experience other forms of dysphoria, but my genitals aren't a problem.

I mean, I don't consider genitals a main problem, either, personally. It's just all the other things that cause it for me.

But yeah, I understand. Most cases I see just come with a heavy load of body dysphoria, in all sorts of different forms. I've actually not come across anyone that hasn't had it in some form so far! I didn't mean to sound exclusionist there.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Extremely bigoted post. You are exactly what you hate.

I've been out for more than six years, and it's just how it is. Who wants to be fetishized and treated like an exotic notch? Not I.

 

[xelios]

I've been out for more than six years, and it's just how it is. Who wants to be fetishized and treated like an exotic notch? Not I.

Yeah, you really have things figured out, calling billions of people you've never met out at once as being boring, gross and bigoted, all because they're not a part of your little community, including cis people who have supported your community and fought for and continue to fight for your equal rights. You're no different than the people who hate you and your friends simply for being trans without ever getting to know you; truly a disgusting mindset you have there and I can tell you from my experience here at GAF that it's not compatible with this community either and you won't last long making judgments like that.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Yeah, you really have things figured out, calling billions of people you've never met out at once as being boring, gross and bigoted, all because they're not a part of your little community, including cis people who have supported your community and fought for and continue to fight for your equal rights. You're no different than the people who hate you simply for being trans; truly a disgusting mindset you have there and I can tell you from my experience here at GAF that it's not compatible with this community either and you won't last long if you keep making statements like that.

Why, exactly, should I as a marginalized person be open to dating people who have structural power over me, when experience taught me time and time again that it was just opening myself up to abuse and oppression? There's nothing wrong with marginalized people wanting to stick with their own when it comes to the most intimate parts of their lives.

 

[xelios]

Why, exactly, should I as a marginalized person be open to dating people who have structural power over me, when experience taught me time and time again that it was just opening myself up to abuse and oppression? There's nothing wrong with marginalized people wanting to stick with their own when it comes to the most intimate parts of their lives.

Date whomever you wish, but don't call over 99% of the world gross, boring and inherently bigoted in one fell swoop because you've let hatred get the best of you.

 

[How About No]

Just got around to reading it, great thread TenCent!

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Date whomever you wish, but don't call over 99% of the world gross, boring and inherently bigoted in one fell swoop because you've let hatred get the best of you.

I'm pretty sure that trans people make up more than <1% of the world. Every year surveyed this last decade has seen the numbers rising significantly, I wouldn't be surprised to see 1 in 10 by the time 2025 rolls around.

Every cis person who's ever expressed interest in me in person or messaged me on a dating app has turned out to be a gross creeper of one variety or another, with implicit or explicit biases that devalue trans people. I'm allowed to have negative feelings about a privileged group that's proven themselves likely to throw any number of our community under the bus, intentionally or otherwise, when trying to "advocate" for us. I'm sick of widespread 'do they belong in this bathroom' memes that are supposed to help us gain acceptance but only promote cis-passing, binary-identified/presenting trans people as valid. I'm sick of explicit footage of impoverished trans people being beaten to death being splashed all over social media as some form of "activism". I'm sick of self-proclaimed cis allies trying to put words in our mouths and threatening to pull their so-called allyship when they receive criticism. I guess any marginalized person that's sick of the violence and ignorance from more privileged groups and wants to spend their private time away from them is 'just as bad', in your world.

No, I don't hate all cis people, but when it comes to dating them? I find it to be a mentally and emotionally exhausting experience.

Spoiler

I'm happily married, btw.

edit:

Spoiler

Cis people get uptight about me not wanting to date their kind because they think that's exclusively their card to pull.

 

[Professor Beef]

bless up transgaf &#128588;

 

[Dmax3901]

I guess where my brain trips up is trying to put myself in a trans person's shoes. I'm a white straight guy, so I try to empathise as much as possible and understand as much as I possibly can. When I think of men being attracted to other men I get it, cause I figure it's the same attraction I feel for women. Easy.

The same thought process doesn't seem to work when imagining being transgender, it's a lot harder for me to imagine what it's like to feel like my external features don't match who I am. I mean everyone looks in the mirror and thinks shit I need to lose some weight, or I need a haircuit/shave etc. But to look in the mirror and think everything is wrong? I have nothing to compare it to. I also think it's a lot harder to "feel" your gender, if that makes sense. To feel my outward gender is wrong so intensely that I'd be willing to go through surgery etc? It's so hard for me to grasp.

 

[xelios]

I'm pretty sure that trans people make up more than <1% of the world. Every year surveyed this last decade has seen the numbers rising significantly, I wouldn't be surprised to see 1 in 10 by the time 2025 rolls around.

Every cis person who's ever expressed interest in me in person or messaged me on a dating app has turned out to be a gross creeper of one variety or another, with implicit or explicit biases that devalue trans people. I'm allowed to have negative feelings about a privileged group that's proven themselves likely to throw any number of our community under the bus, intentionally or otherwise, when trying to "advocate" for us. I'm sick of widespread 'do they belong in this bathroom' memes that are supposed to help us gain acceptance but only promote cis-passing, binary-identified/presenting trans people as valid. I'm sick of explicit footage of impoverished trans people being beaten to death being splashed all over social media as some form of "activism". I'm sick of self-proclaimed cis allies trying to put words in our mouths and threatening to pull their so-called allyship when they receive criticism. I guess any marginalized person that's sick of the violence and ignorance from more privileged groups and wants to spend their private time away from them is 'just as bad', in your world.

No, I don't hate all cis people, but when it comes to dating them? I find it to be a mentally and emotionally exhausting experience.

Spoiler

I'm happily married, btw.

First of all, you're deluded about the number of trans people in the world. Go research the stats again; it will never remotely approach 1 in 10 as even homosexuals don't and they far outnumber trans people. Every statistic I've read puts it at less than 1%, and it may rise to something like 2% with more people being comfortable to report (double is a huge rise and being extremely generous statistics-wise). Regardless, that's where it stands now. Moving on...

By insulting all cis people at once, you are also insulting dozens of other disadvantaged groups at the same time because—surprise—there are a lot of other disadvantaged people in the other 99% of the world! You call every single cis person part of a "privileged group" in a way that ignores the fact many of them have suffered through the same shit you have (homosexuals, blacks, women just to name a few groups), which just highlights the extent of your ignorance and self-absorption. Not to mention you have the audacity to act as if no one genuinely supports trans people when a large portion of the gay community has taken you under their banner and people from all backgrounds have come out in support of you. Due to your extremely small numbers, a good chunk of your progress has and will continue to come off the backs of other, non-trans people (the ones you called inherently bigoted) who are willing to stick their necks out for you, so be more appreciative and less insulting.

Making statements like you want to spend your private time away from cis people and they are gross and boring shows that you are not all that different from a simple racist or homophobe, or transphobe for that matter. Fortunately, most trans people—and I've met a lot of them—are nothing like you, despite your beliefs. If someone said all trans people were gross and boring and they wanted to be spending their time away from them you would be calling for their heads.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

First of all, you're deluded about the number of trans people in the world. Go research the stats again; it will never remotely approach 1 in 10 as even homosexuals don't and they far outnumber trans people. Every statistic I've read puts it at less than 1%, and it may rise to something like 2% with more people being comfortable to report (double is a huge rise and being extremely generous statistics-wise). Regardless, that's where it stands now. Moving on...

By insulting all cis people at once, you are also insulting dozens of other disadvantaged groups at the same time because—surprise—there are a lot of other disadvantaged people in the other 99% of the world! You call every single cis person part of a "privileged group" in a way that ignores the fact many of them have suffered through the same shit you have (homosexuals, blacks, women just to name a few groups), which just highlights the extent of your ignorance and self-absorption. Not to mention you have the audacity to act as if no one genuinely supports trans people when a large portion of the gay community has taken you under their banner and people from all backgrounds have come out in support of you. Due to your extremely small numbers, a good chunk of your progress has and will continue to come off the backs of other, non-trans people (the ones you called inherently bigoted) who are willing to stick their necks out for you, so be more appreciative and less insulting.

Making statements like you want to spend your private time away from cis people and they are gross and boring shows that you are not all that different from a simple racist or homophobe, or transphobe for that matter. Fortunately, most trans people—and I've met a lot of them—are nothing like you, despite your beliefs. If someone said all trans people were gross and boring and they wanted to be spending their time away from them you would be calling for their heads.

How quickly cis people forget that the queer liberation movement was started by trans people sticking their necks out. Were there cis gay men at Stonewall? Yeah, in police uniforms. I've been involved in political action for years, and these cis people 'sticking their necks out' are nowhere to be found: they're more likely to demand trans people 'wait their turn', suggest incremental rights for trans people, or straight up propose non-discrimination legislation that offers fewer or no rights for trans people. I've been jailed twice doing direct action for all-inclusive non-discrimination legislation, don't you dare tell me I should be bowing down to the cis people who've stood in the way of full equality time and time again.

 

[xelios]

How quickly cis people forget that the queer liberation movement was started by trans people sticking their necks out. Were there cis gay men at Stonewall? Yeah, in police uniforms. I've been involved in political action for years, and these cis people 'sticking their necks out' are nowhere to be found: they're more likely to demand trans people 'wait their turn', suggest incremental rights for trans people, or straight up propose non-discrimination legislation that offers fewer or no rights for trans people. I've been jailed twice doing direct action for all-inclusive non-discrimination legislation, don't you dare tell me I should be bowing down to the cis people who've stood in the way of full equality time and time again.

I'm sorry you can't see through your blind hatred that cis people, which comprise the other 99% of the world, are not all the same. It looks like you are hopeless.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

I'm sorry you can't see through your blind hatred that cis people, which comprise the other 99% of the world, are not all the same. It looks like you are hopeless.

Pushing back against your revisionist history of the queer liberation movement = blind hatred. Gotcha.

 

[xelios]

Pushing back against your revisionist history of the queer liberation movement = blind hatred. Gotcha.

I didn't revise history; I said a large portion of the gay community has taken you under their banner, which is true. I didn't say what year that happened or that it happened all at once. If 99% of the world was out to get you you wouldn't be where you are today and you wouldn't stand a chance. You are an unreasonable individual and I hope one day you can overcome your hatred of cis people.

 

[Pizza]

As someone with zero issue or aversion with trans people, I'm glad to see my current understanding aligns with the op &#9996;&#65039; Also first post nails it

 

[TFlat]

I think I'm a girl somedays,I'd like to transition, but I'm mostly into other girls.
So I'd be transitioning into a lesbian.
It's hopeless.

If you think you are a girl and you would like to transition then really you should put some thought into actually doing that.

You sexuality really doesn't matter, so what if that makes you a lesbian? I am transitioning within the next month while married and plan to stay with my wife, making us a lesbian relationship I guess, but that doesn't really make it any more hopeless or weird than if I was dating a guy instead.

(Also jump into TransGAF if you wish to talk, there are lots of open-minded people willing to talk!)

 

[Subway Diet]

Edit: Sorry. The wrong thread for such questions.
Edit 2: For the record, the original post was trying to come to terms with my potential non-binary status. Didn't seem fitting for a trans specific thread.

 

[N7.Angel]

cis hetero men who refuse to date trans women or cis hetero women who refuse to date trans men: transphobic or no?

It's an interesting question, I never think about this until now so I asked myself:

Do I hate LGBQT people ? "Of course not"
Do I want to support them and help them feel better in our world and society ? " Of course"
Can I think about a Trans-woman as attractive and interesting ? "Yeah sure"
Would I date her ? "I don't think I can"

That's a strange feeling/thinking because I recognize them as the gender they identified themselves and I want to support the trans community as much as possible with a really open mind but I don't think I could date one, damn, am I transphobic ?...

 

[Hopeford]

Before I say anything, let me preface by saying I fully support trans rights. Like, people should have the right to be who they are without being afraid of...well, the terrible things that happen nowadays. And it really sucks the way things are. I'm also sorry in advance if I say something insensitive, it's just one thing I've always had trouble understanding, so I'd appreciate some help in the matter.

The one thing I have trouble understanding is...well, what it feels like to be in the wrong body. I think that's something I will never understand. When people say "I'm a man/woman" I don't really super understand what that means, you know? I don't super feel like a man, particularly. It's more like "I guess I'm a man. Cool." And I think if I woke up tomorrow as a woman I wouldn't be particularly devastated or care too much. Like if I woke up in a parallel dimension where I was a woman and was expected to wear dresses and stuff like that...to be honest, I don't think I'd really care about that. Only reason I don't do anything like that in daily life is because societal repercussions and stuff - I don't personally have any strong feelings regarding normally gendered things.

I guess I just have trouble understanding the difference between "I don't want to live under X gender expectations" and "I'm actually the opposite gender." Because to me, I only really think of gender in terms of societal expectations. I only think "I'm a man" in terms of "People expect me to do X because I'm a man" rather than anything intrinsic, if that makes sense. I kind of struggle to come up with a definition of gender that isn't inherently connected to gender roles. So I just have some trouble wrapping my mind around the concept.

I think it's one of those things I'll never fully understand because I'll never experience it. I imagine a large part of why I don't know what feeling like my gender feels like is because my body matches my mind, so the conflict that makes me notice it doesn't come about. I understand that there's even a neurological component to it that must make the feeling of being in the wrong body really difficult. But on a personal level, I think I'll never fully understand what that feels like. I can understand why I can't understand it, but I think the most important thing I can do is to remember I can never really get it. All I can do is offer support and try to help people around me in any way I can.

But yeah, I wish I could understand it better. I can look into the research and understand(in vague terms) why people feel a certain way, but I just have difficulty wrapping my mind around how that even feels like.

(And I mean not understanding that doesn't detract from wanting to help in any way I can, it's just something that's always been in my mind and I never felt there was an appropriate place to ask. Thanks for this thread, by the way, I've read the entire thing and it was really informative.)

 

[Butterfly Witch]

Before I say anything, let me preface by saying I fully support trans rights. Like, people should have the right to be who they are without being afraid of...well, the terrible things that happen nowadays. And it really sucks the way things are. I'm also sorry in advance if I say something insensitive, it's just one thing I've always had trouble understanding, so I'd appreciate some help in the matter.

The one thing I have trouble understanding is...well, what it feels like to be in the wrong body. I think that's something I will never understand. When people say "I'm a man/woman" I don't really super understand what that means, you know? I don't super feel like a man, particularly. It's more like "I guess I'm a man. Cool." And I think if I woke up tomorrow as a woman I wouldn't be particularly devastated or care too much. Like if I woke up in a parallel dimension where I was a woman and was expected to wear dresses and stuff like that...to be honest, I don't think I'd really care about that. Only reason I don't do anything like that in daily life is because societal repercussions and stuff - I don't personally have any strong feelings regarding normally gendered things.

I guess I just have trouble understanding the difference between "I don't want to live under X gender expectations" and "I'm actually the opposite gender." Because to me, I only really think of gender in terms of societal expectations. I only think "I'm a man" in terms of "People expect me to do X because I'm a man" rather than anything intrinsic, if that makes sense. I kind of struggle to come up with a definition of gender that isn't inherently connected to gender roles. So I just have some trouble wrapping my mind around the concept.

I think it's one of those things I'll never fully understand because I'll never experience it. I imagine a large part of why I don't know what feeling like my gender feels like is because my body matches my mind, so the conflict that makes me notice it doesn't come about. I understand that there's even a neurological component to it that must make the feeling of being in the wrong body really difficult. But on a personal level, I think I'll never fully understand what that feels like. I can understand why I can't understand it, but I think the most important thing I can do is to remember I can never really get it. All I can do is offer support and try to help people around me in any way I can.

But yeah, I wish I could understand it better. I can look into the research and understand(in vague terms) why people feel a certain way, but I just have difficulty wrapping my mind around how that even feels like.

(And I mean not understanding that doesn't detract from wanting to help in any way I can, it's just something that's always been in my mind and I never felt there was an appropriate place to ask. Thanks for this thread, by the way, I've read the entire thing and it was really informative.)

I know it's kind of lazy and frowned upon but I'll quote myself:

You should read this and ask any questions you may have afterwards. It's not perfect or 100% complete but should give you a solid idea.

https://www.pflag.org/sites/default/files/Our Trans Loved Ones.pdf

 

[Hopeford]

I know it's kind of lazy and frowned upon but I'll quote myself:

Nah that's not lazy, it's totally fair. I saw that post earlier and I started reading that - to be honest that was half the reason for my post. I've been trying to understand trans issues more often since a friend is having some family issues and I feel like the more I try the more I'm like "...Hm. I feel rather dumb for not fully getting this." Still, reading that does help me understand a couple things I always wanted to ask, so thanks for that link!

 

[Ketkat]

It's an interesting question, I never think about this until now so I asked myself:

Do I hate LGBQT people ? "Of course not"
Do I want to support them and help them feel better in our world and society ? " Of course"
Can I think about a Trans-woman as attractive and interesting ? "Yeah sure"
Would I date her ? "I don't think I can"

That's a strange feeling/thinking because I recognize them as the gender they identified themselves and I want to support the trans community as much as possible with a really open mind but I don't think I could date one, damn, am I transphobic ?...

Yes, that certainly seems transphobic to me. If you won't date someone solely because they are trans, I don't see how that couldn't be transphobic. Just like how if you refused to date black people because they are black, that would be racist.

 

[MarkRenton]

nvm

 

[Stat!]

Something I tried googling to no avail, but out of curiosity, lets say you knew someone pre-transition and you haven't seen them for years but you "meet" them again.

Similar to seeing someone that you knew in high school but hadn't seen in years and now see them again at say a grocery store. I know he is now a transman just because people talk/facebook/etc.

What is the "right" thing to say upon seeing them again? My heart/brain says "Its great to see you" but not sure if I should acknowledge that its great to see the most "real/comfortable them" and give a sort of "way to go".

or do I just pretend we've never met before and I have no idea? That seems so ludicrous.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

Something I tried googling to no avail, but out of curiosity, lets say you knew someone pre-transition and you haven't seen them for years but you "meet" them again.

Similar to seeing someone that you knew in high school but hadn't seen in years and now see them again at say a grocery store. I know he is now a transman just because people talk/facebook/etc.

What is the "right" thing to say upon seeing them again? My heart/brain says "Its great to see you" but not sure if I should acknowledge that its great to see the most "real/comfortable them" and give a sort of "way to go".

or do I just pretend we've never met before and I have no idea? That seems so ludicrous.

I'd probably ask their name and pronouns first and go from there.