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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One

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Deuterium

Deuterium

Member
Meccanical said:
Yeah sure, let's all treat the guy who has a reputation for lying as a reliable source, and ignore the poster who has a proven track record.

You're showing your colors.
Click to expand...

If my "colors" are common fucking sense, then okay...guilty as charged.

All the Microsoft spokesman (Major Nelson) had to do was completely ignore the tweet/question, and not even make a comment. Instead, we not only get a comment, we get an unambiguous declaration.

Yeah, I will accept that for what it is, over some anonymous internet poster.
 
S

Stripper13

Member
dionysus said:
I don't have a specific link but I am pretty sure MS spent a good long time claiming that xbox 360 failure rates were within the norm for electronic products.
Click to expand...

Acceptable failure rates for high end technology are usually within the 10% range. Microsoft unfortunate had it back to front.

Took them a year to realise that 90% were supposed to be working properly.

#soundedgoodinmyhead
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
netBuff said:
This rumour is pretty damaging, that's why he chose to respond and deny it: There's no reason for them to be truthful in this matter, MS don't have any obligation to report manufacturing problems to NeoGAF or Twitter.
Click to expand...

YEP there is no way they want this rumor getting any bigger so they would lie to make it go away .
Not answering or saying we don't comment on rumors would only make things worst for them .
 
L

LeBoef

Member
What i dont get is:
Ok there is a problem. I am sure there are about a thousand more, as this is usualy the case with new products.
Especialy in pre mass production

Why going nuts over this? Let 'em solve it.
 
F

Freki

Member
Gestault said:
I notice that an unsubstantiated Gaf rumor (with as many "insiders" denying it as confirming it), followed by a formal retort from a Microsoft representative who would see a backlash if he openly lied about something, still has people insisting that its true. Not because of any evidence, but because it simply must be true.

Interesting.

And to reiterate: If they don't respond to a rumor, it's obviously true, even if we have inconsistent information on our end. And if they respond with a clear denial, it must still be true, because "this company would never make an accurate statement." There's something in the air right now, and I don't like the smell of it.
Click to expand...

Wich insider denied low eSRAM yields? Even SenjutsuSage confirmed this - he was only denying that it resulted in a downcock?
 
P

Perkel

Banned
Deuterium said:
So why didn't he just ignore the question, or post "we do not comment on rumors"? Instead, Microsoft officially declared that the ESRAM was not a problem/issue. It is possible Major Nelson was commenting to the "down-clocking" rumors...in which case, we have an answer. I could give two shits if there are "yield" issues.
Click to expand...

"Yeah we have problems with our fab, we may probably downclock/delay/do local launch of our console, please understand !"

I don't see him doing that.
 
N

netBuff

Member
Deuterium said:
If my "colors" are common fucking sense, then okay...guilty as charged.

All the Microsoft spokesman (Major Nelson) had to do was completely ignore the tweet/question, and not even make a comment. Instead, we not only get a comment, we get an unambiguous declaration.

Yeah, I will accept that for what it is, over some anonymous internet poster.
Click to expand...

Why would he ignore it, when he can just as well deny a damaging rumour? That is what PR people to, try to make their product show in the best light.

It doesn't have to be true, MS have no obligation to random Twitter users: And there is no situation in which we will publicly know about their manufacturing issues as that is internal information.
 
C

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
Jake Tower said:
Has crazy buttocks been wrong about anything in the past?
Click to expand...

No.






†the only thing that hasn't yet materialize was the proposed rebranding of DRM with a different name. But that is not indicative of anything as it was a semantic decision and easily changed from one minute to the next or abandoned entirely on a whim, unlike hardware or video game development.
 
G

Gestault

Member
Freki said:
Wich insider denied low eSRAM yields? Even SenjutsuSage confirmed this - he was only denying that it resulted in a downcock?
Click to expand...

I was talking specifically about the down-clock rumor, which I thought was a big part of what Nelson was responding to. Lower sSRAM yields would effect production, but not necessarily the quality of the final product.
 
M

MogCakes

Member
Deuterium said:
If my "colors" are common fucking sense, then okay...guilty as charged.

All the Microsoft spokesman (Major Nelson) had to do was completely ignore the tweet/question, and not even make a comment. Instead, we not only get a comment, we get an unambiguous declaration.

Yeah, I will accept that for what it is, over some anonymous internet poster.
Click to expand...

So you'll believe a PR mouthpiece over a poster who has a proven track record with leaks. Okay.
 
D

Daingurse

Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
no.

pr=$$$ to shil for corps
me=notpaifd fpor anyting 9 ysrs here on gaf, all free and all myo love. gamers and games, noohther.

esram stands, perio.d.

truthfact.
Click to expand...

damn-gif-o.gif


Time to grab the popcorn, gawd dayum!
 
D

dionysus

Yaldog
Stripper13 said:
Acceptable failure rates for high end technology are usually within the 10% range. Microsoft unfortunate had it back to front.

Took them a year to realise that 90% were supposed to be working properly.

#soundedgoodinmyhead
Click to expand...

On released products? No way. I can see it for a failure rate on individual components (chips, transistors, whatever) not passing your factory acceptance test, but not an products on a store shelf.
 
Deuterium

Deuterium

Member
Perkel said:
"Yeah we have problems with our fab, we may probably downclock/delay/do local launch of our console, please understand !"

I don't see him doing that.
Click to expand...

Did you even read my post that you took the trouble to quote. He didn't even have to respond or comment to the question. I am sure there are even more "inflammatory" tweets (e.g. DRM issues) that he has simply not commented or responded to. He could have done the same in this case...but he didn't. Yet, for some reason, a bunch of GAFers decide he must be lying.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
SenjutsuSage said:
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/342704657627496449

"Definitely not true, cannot always respond to every unsourced online rumor, but the fact people would believe this is crazy."

And, cboat is still right about ESRAM trouble, but there doesn't need to be any downclock because of it, which is what I think Greenberg is most directly responding to. Yields were also a problem on the 360, due to its 10MB of EDRAM initially.
Click to expand...

If they won't fix it fast they will have 3 options:

- Delay
- Downclock
- Do local launch

2 of them would put them from start behind Sony. Downclock would mean they would improve yields and would get them console on planned release date (assuming downclock will be sufficient).

They don't have a lot of time....
 
E

Erasus

Member
RyanReedyMusic said:
Every single person who is in every single thread hating on the Xbox One will buy it eventually if it has a games that they would really like to play. TRUTHFACT
Click to expand...

Okay, sure. But this thread is about the yeild issues MS seesm to be having. Because they went for DDR3 RAM. To make up for that they needed ESRAM on the die area. That is big and prone to errors as we see. To make it more stable and to be able to use more APUs comming of the production line they may or may not underclock parts
 
S

szaromir

Banned
I don't understand this pointless speculation. Why someone like Digital Foundry guys can't ask developers if Microsoft lowered the clockrate?
 
S

Septimius

Junior Member
szaromir said:
I don't understand this pointless speculation. Why someone like Digital Foundry guys can't ask developers if Microsoft lowered the clockrate?
Click to expand...

Devs probably don't know the final specs. They'd have no way of knowing if it was down-clocked. Even if they'd somehow seen a discrepancy between what they'd been told and what it is, MS could just say they hadn't been given the final spec. And lastly, if this did happen, even if devs would for some reason be in the know, they would not yet have been told.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
szaromir said:
I don't understand this pointless speculation. Why someone like Digital Foundry guys can't ask developers if Microsoft lowered the clockrate?
Click to expand...

1.) that decision is likely not yet final

2.) Devs are likely under a billion layers of NDA even if it was

3.) Microsoft is unlikely to be forthcoming about any negative information that would give a competitor (Sony) a leg up. Nintendo STILL won't tell anyone what the specs of the WiiU are, for instance.
 
F

Foxix Von

Member
Lambda Piscium said:
cboat only leaks MS stuff, we a Sony version of him, like "insane testicles on a bike" or something.
Click to expand...

Oh shit. Hahaha.

ezekielpacman said:
I seem to remember him leaking Sony dropping Remember Me, but not 100% sure.
Click to expand...

Yes. He leaked it with a brief video clip in gif form just before last year's E3. That was when it was still Sony exclusive as well.

Keep up the good work Crazy Butt! I'm your biggest fan :D
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
Manmademan said:
1.) that decision is likely not yet final

2.) Devs are likely under a billion layers of NDA even if it was

3.) Microsoft is unlikely to be forthcoming about any negative information that would give a competitor (Sony) a leg up. Nintendo STILL won't tell anyone what the specs of the WiiU are, for instance.
Click to expand...

How do devs still not know what the wiiu specs are...... is that serious?
 
C

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
MarkusRJR said:
He didn't even outright say the truth at all. He just implied it. There's no way Major Nelson would be outright say "yeah our shit is so fucked up" or anything implying it. Paid shill and all that.
Click to expand...


Can we cut back on these spurious accusations? Major Nelson isn't a shill for fucks sake. He's a self labeled employee of Microsoft's Xbox division who does Public Relations on the side.

A shill is someone who pretends to be independent but is actually working surreptitiously as an agent of an organization to change opinion or otherwise manipulate the general public for said specific organization.


RyanReedyMusic said:
Every single person who is in every single thread hating on the Xbox One will buy it eventually if it has a games that they would really like to play. TRUTHFACT
Click to expand...

I won't, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. So you're argument is invalidated. You should try some more statements filled with unsubstantiated arguments.

Also, your not delivering the same type of insider information that Buttocks is so you really can stop trying to appropriate his shtick.
 
S

seattle6418

Member
WTF? I thought the downclock was what was confirmed. Who cares if they are having yield problems? What really matters is if the system received a downclock or not, because it's something that affects the games.

Well, i guess i thought he was confirming both stuff yesterday.

So it's still possible that Senjuro, Buttocks and Nelson are all right, just because nobody is being specific?
 
D

dionysus

Yaldog
seattle6418 said:
WTF? I thought the downclock was what was confirmed. Who cares if they are having yield problems? What really matters is if the system received a downclock or not, because it's something that affects the games.

Well, i guess i thought he was confirming both stuff yesterday.

So it's still possible that Senjuro, Buttocks and Nelson are all right, just because nobody is being specific?
Click to expand...

There are only a few ways companies can respond to poor yield issues. Paper launches (not nearly enough supply) and downclocks are the most common.

I don't think brute forcing chip manufacturing is really an option either. Aren't chip fabs production slots booked far out? So if you don't get expected yields it is going to take a while to ramp up production beyond what the fab currently is contracted to do.
 
Deuterium

Deuterium

Member
seattle6418 said:
WTF? I thought the downclock was what was confirmed. Who cares if they are having yield problems? What really matters is if the system received a downclock or not, because it's something that affects the games.

Well, i guess i thought he was confirming both stuff yesterday.

So it's still possible that Senjuro, Buttocks and Nelson are all right, just because nobody is being specific?
Click to expand...

I think he (Major Nelson) was being pretty specific. He explicitly denied that there were problems associated with the ESRAM. As the "down-clocking" is uniquely tied to ESRAM problems, his statement inductively denies (dispels unofficial rumors) that any down-clocking has occurred.

There doesn't seem to be any grey area, here. All that is left is for people to decide whether to believe Major Nelson (Microsoft) or the anonymous GAF poster (CBOAT).
 
I

i-Lo

Member
I guess people believe what they want to believe despite the statistical record.

Looks like time will show the consequences of the facts and disillusionment will descend upon the delusional ones.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
Steroyd said:
Then you'd be happy being Xbox 360 only and not be jelly of the PS3 exclusives, I just happen to be on the other side of that.
Click to expand...

I actually bought a PS3 'cause it had more shooters, and they looked SO cool, and I found myself so horrifically disappointed by them, you don't even know. Games like Halo and Gears are just... absolutely top-tier, and would be regardless of what platform they'd be on; I'd double dip on them if they came to PC, for instance. Infamous is, sadly, the only PS3-gen exclusive franchise I'd pick up if it came to another platform. It's really frustrating to me, as a formerly big PS1/PS2 fan.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
Perkel said:
If they won't fix it fast they will have 3 options:

- Delay
- Downclock
- Do local launch

2 of them would put them from start behind Sony. Downclock would mean they would improve yields and would get them console on planned release date (assuming downclock will be sufficient).

They don't have a lot of time....
Click to expand...

I'm saying that there are real ESRAM issues, but I'm also saying that nothing needs to be downclocked as a result of that. Time will fix yield issues, just like it did on the Xbox 360.
 
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