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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
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vpance
Member
Ahh yes the latency "issue". lol
Isn't that what the first rumors said to be in the early devkits? If that figure is accurate, it would seem odd since the Xbox's GPU doesn't come even close to any 7900 at that frequency.
I remember Nintendo doing something similar to the Gamecube not long before it released.
The best thing is that some posters that bring up that issue also believe in the cloud computing claims
You can remove the quotes and the "lol". Latency is a very real issue. It doesn't affect all workloads to the same degree, but it exists, and it's a big enough issue for companies to minimize or work around it.
I have to admit that I am curious as to how the PS4's GDDR5 latency will affect the CPU side of things (if at all). But as far as the GPU is concerned, I don't really think there's any saving grace in having less latency at the cost of bandwidth.
vpance
Member
Nah i'll leave it, the context is good. Those posters were claiming how latency cripples PS4 against Xbone or that Xbone's latency advantage would turn 1.2TF into 1.8.
Yeah, I'm not sure to which degree it will affect the GPU either, but it certainly should affect the CPU. And the most powerful system in the world is useless if it constantly stalls.
dragonbane
Member
Here is a compilation of stuff CBOAT leaked and is completely confirmed at this point. It doesn't stop at Microsoft. He has crazy good connections:
-some 360 tech details
-full list of GTA San Andreas voice actors
-Dead Space 3 having a coop feature
-leaked Remember Me (still a Sony exclusive at that point)
-TitanFall by Respawn is a timed exclusive, but is getting a PC port
-EA dropped their online pass, because MS is restricting used games themselves
-Battlefield 4 is not a timed exclusive for Xbox One
Unconfirmed stuff:
-Dead Rising 3 exists and is a console exclusive (rumoured to be MS)
-Black Tusk's new IP for Xbox One is way behind in development
-Mass Effect, Dragon Age are not timed exclusives for Xbox One
I probably missed some stuff. Still there is really no doubt CBOAT is the real deal.
-some 360 tech details
-full list of GTA San Andreas voice actors
-Dead Space 3 having a coop feature
-leaked Remember Me (still a Sony exclusive at that point)
-TitanFall by Respawn is a timed exclusive, but is getting a PC port
-EA dropped their online pass, because MS is restricting used games themselves
-Battlefield 4 is not a timed exclusive for Xbox One
Unconfirmed stuff:
-Dead Rising 3 exists and is a console exclusive (rumoured to be MS)
-Black Tusk's new IP for Xbox One is way behind in development
-Mass Effect, Dragon Age are not timed exclusives for Xbox One
I probably missed some stuff. Still there is really no doubt CBOAT is the real deal.
Here's a scenario I can actually see happening:
You buy Madden '15 for Xbox One. This requires "the cloud" for god only knows what. When Madden '16 comes out, EA disables the magic of "the cloud" for Madden '15, requiring you to upgrade to Madden '16 in order to play. Your copy of Madden '15 is now useless.
Hey, it could happen....
Letting slip some info isn't the same as the official reveal. MS were very careful in what they said during the Xbone reveal. MS engineers also stated that the SoC was fabbed on a 40nm process, and this was denied later by PR.
Simple. Sony designed the PS4 to be a gaming console first, & entertainment/media, etc. second, while Microsoft went the other way around with Xbox One (Entertainment/Media machine first, gaming machine second).
This could wind up hurting Microsoft in the long run, especially when it comes to future Xbox One/PS4 multiplats & if both of those consoles go on for another 7-8 years.
That depends on what the latency to the CPU actually is. How much more latency does GDDR5 inherently have over DDR3? I honestly don't know if there is any to begin with or if it's just an artifact of how GPUs are structured (as GPUs with DDR3 memory do not seem to have lower latencies).
Googling so far hasn't helped me find out if there's really any inherent latency difference between DDR3 and GDDR5.
Who knows. The 40nm claim might have been an error made by Microsoft when speaking with Wired (unlikely) or an error made by Wired journos when they wrote their scoop (more likely). Or it could be true.
The idea that MS would take a 28nm APU design from AMD, then change it to be fabbed at 40nm is nuts. But maybe that all ties in with the ESRAM issues. Again, who knows?
And there we have it. Thank you based GAF. In my short time here I have discovered a wonderful place. And now back to downclocking. With the 'insider' who bet his account on downclocking not being true out of the picture, what say you?
when the consoles get release we will have the whole picture.
but rumors from insiders that provided correct rumors before you can take note of them
And there we have it. Thank you based GAF. In my short time here I have discovered a wonderful place.
Hmmm, I think he'll be back very soon since he's a member, unless someone confirms that he's permabanned.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Not from the looks of it. He may not be back.
really, why? for being condescending?
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
honestly, who the hell doubs cboat? there's even a few more posts (like smartglass support for all games, microsoft changing the online check from 3 to 24hr because of the adam orth incident and whatnot). the guy is the definition of insider.
This can only happen if your data set can fit into cache for the whole duration of the computation, which is unlikely for any non-trivial data set.
You only need to fit in a part of the data set your working on into the cache, not the entire thing. You don't see people fitting 3GB matrices into caches and yet you can get perfect cache hits with them.
Man, it used to be only 3 hours? Somehow I missed that.
Aside from the fact that matrix multiplication is sort of the textbook example of why cache coherency matters, you need to read parts of that matrix from main memory in the first place to get it into cache.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
No, it used to be three minutes.
You don't need to read anything the memory controller will prefetch the data before you need it. You can even give it prefetch hints iirc.
Modern x86 processors are largely magic at a lot of this.
3 minutes actually.
anexanhume
Member
I don't buy it anymore. Bkilian is a confirmed ex MS XBOX employee:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1746377&postcount=3684
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1746377&postcount=3684
No for the "junior, go to hell" part
CBOAT has a 100% track record. I'll keep my bets on him.
lwilliams3
Member
As you said, though, he is an ex MS XBOX member. He wouldn't actually know.
Bgassassin emailed me his comments on the latest XBOX One discussions, and he said that he wouldn't mind me sharing it with everyone.
Bgassassin said:Yeah that whole thing has been weird. The funny/sad (thing about) this is that the one "positive" rumor about the CPU being better seems to be the one wrong thing I passed along, but all the negative ones were legit though they made changes (e.g. from always online to a 24hr check in, no used games to whatever that mess is they've described). As for the more recent things, I "retired" from info digging so I haven't tried to confirm it for myself. But I saw the thread and if Thuway and Proelite are saying they've heard it, then I would say there is definitely merit to it (not ignoring CBOAT obviously). I've talked to those two in the past when comparing info around the time I passed along all that Xbox info and I know/have an idea of who their sources are making what they say about downclocks being internally discussed at worst and will happen at best. Or vice versa depending on the person's perspective.
KojiKnight
Member
This... As for not telling your biggest supporters your yields (if CBOAT is working at a major 3rd party company) that seems like something that could backfire STUNNINGLY. If EA is kept out of the loop on something like "hey your games may not sell because there will be no consoles to play them on..." you can bet they'll remember it.
And if the OTHER half of the rumors are true about possible downclocks, you can be GUARANTEED that the developers will have to know this, and in knowing this can easily put 2 + 2 together.
anexanhume
Member
As you said, though, he is an ex MS XBOX member. He wouldn't actually know.
Bgassassin emailed me his comments on tthe latest XBOX One discussions, and he said that he wouldn't mind me sharing it with everyone.
He was with them while the One was in development. He'd had a pretty damn good idea what was likely to leak from the org.
They'd have no reason to share the ESRAM directly. They'd just give production estimates. And downclocks doesn't automatically put ESRAM on the hot seat. Could be other yield problems.
Bkilian's comments don't confirm or deny anything.
While he's right in saying info about yields would not be widely known even within the wider Xbone team, it will be known by some. News gets out. You hear about yield issues for other companies all the time. Nvidia, Sony etc.
Think how widely known the Cell and blue diode manufacturing issues were before the PS3 launched (and likewise, none of that should have been public knowledge).
While he's right in saying info about yields would not be widely known even within the wider Xbone team, it will be known by some. News gets out. You hear about yield issues for other companies all the time. Nvidia, Sony etc.
Think how widely known the Cell and blue diode manufacturing issues were before the PS3 launched (and likewise, none of that should have been public knowledge).
MazingerDUDE
Member
Good point. This was rumoured, then later unofficially confirmed by someone who had an insider source.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116735
RedAssedApe
Banned
is major nelson really a director level executive?
saying "go to hell" is bannable? for being abusive(against ToS) I guess. But I don't think that's so offensive.
What specifically was he wrong about on that? I haven't done much research on it :u
Nah he was banned for being an MS shill. I'd imagine Bish was looking into him for a while.
Considering they have not been fabing long I don't see how he would know what is currently happening. It's not like they have been mass producing chips for years.
Just because it is not out yet does not make him wrong? Never saw a date. Shit also gets canceled relatively often, which is why I think "rumors" may not always be incorrect (always online), when changes are made (they become online once in 24 hours).
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
He was wrong about the announcement time (check the posts in that thread). But judging by the other leaks suggesting a DR3 for Xbone, the game definitely seem real.
crazy buttocks on a train
quite possibly the greatest username
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