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UHD Blu-ray Game Consoles shipped in 2013
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
No, which is why it remains something of a mystery as to why the mods let these threads exist.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Do you know that all UHD Media players use HTML5 as the UI and HTML5 <video> for the Video display. A UHD TV (ATSC 3) has a Browser for the TV screen. 4K Antenna TV, UHD Blu-ray and OTT UHD IPTV use the same HTML5 browser stack as does Vidipath. The PS4 and XB1 have browser UIs as do all 4K Media players and both have HTML5 browsers.
A Vidipath Network Antenna Tuner and modulator convert Antenna TV to a IPTV stream (two layers up in the following chart). The W3C has been working to support this.
It's now only about 5 months since a UHD Blu-ray player has been announced as available and so far none announced for the PC yet we expect a Game Consoile to do so. AMD's Kaveri, and Carrizo for sure in their literature support UHD and with a firmware updated and Licenced blu-ray drive and UHD Blu-ray Player application will support it. Sony has a licence for a PC UHD Blu-ray player application and a UHD blu-ray Movie player/game console/test player. but has not mentioned this or released anything using either BDA Licence.
Why hasn't Sony released their PC UHD Blu-ray Application Player?
Why doesn't Sony allow APPs to use Playready embedded on the PS3 and PS4? They started porting it to the PS3 in 2014 and the PS4 has it listed in the intellectual Licence. They have plans to support Vidipath as the PDF they sent to the FCC has a slide with PCs, Phones, tablets, TVs, PS4 and PS3 using it. Vidipath uses HTML5 for the UI and a W3C extension called DLNA for the streaming and a common DRM chosen by everyone called Playready. A Vidipath Platform also uses HTML5 <video> for the display as does every 4K Media platform. See the synergy in what's coming with UHD Media.
The FCC mandated Cable Companies must support Vidipath and they advertise they do but there are no clients despite 20 or so applying for certification in 2014 and nearly EVERY Smart TV, Cable company, STB company has a licence to use Playready embedded which is the common DRM for Vidipath and likely the common DRM for ATSC 3 (4K Antenna TV).
What do UHD players and Playready embedded have in common, a TEE which is required by Playready porting kit versions 2.5 and 3. UHD Media requires the HDCP for HDMI take place in that TEE not the HDMI chip. Further ALL UHD Media use HTML5 for the UI, a HTML5 <video> screen for display with HTML5 <video> MSE EME hooks and C-ENC format for DRM hooks which is the same for all UHD media and requires an Embedded DRM and the common one chosen for Vidipath was Playready and in Leaked Sony UHD Blu-ray digital bridge proposals the common DRM is also Playready ND. This is key to understand what is coming.
Why no one is announcing UHD Blu-ray for the game consoles or PCs or Vidipath to this point and when it will be released would be wild speculation but there is more documented support for this and how it works than there is for the PS4 NEO but it requires reading and understanding the documented TECHNICAL papers. It's easier to understand a rumor and to take the word of a reputable source rather that understand how it's going to be made possible.
thetester77
Member
Jeff does hurt my head - too much information and words that don't make sense to normal people.
Jeff also was adamant that the PS4K wasn't a device but just a firmware update and people had got mixed up.
The PS4 may have a capable Blu ray drive but the HDMI chip is only 1.4 not 2.0. Now technically that isn't a problem for UHD Films running at 24 but with HDR and HFR 2.0a is needed and this is why they need to move to a newer model to make sure the UHD isn't out of date on release as most of the UHD releases have HDR which wouldn't be possible on the OG Ps4
Jeff also was adamant that the PS4K wasn't a device but just a firmware update and people had got mixed up.
The PS4 may have a capable Blu ray drive but the HDMI chip is only 1.4 not 2.0. Now technically that isn't a problem for UHD Films running at 24 but with HDR and HFR 2.0a is needed and this is why they need to move to a newer model to make sure the UHD isn't out of date on release as most of the UHD releases have HDR which wouldn't be possible on the OG Ps4
This is what I get from OP.
This is somewhat interesting to me though, so thanks OP. Trying to read through that PDF now.
damn, that gif cracked me up
jeff_rigby
Banned
The PS4 does not have a HDMI 1.4 chip! It's a custom Panasonic HDMI chip that is not listed on Panasonic's HDMI 1.4 webpage/catalog. Edit: Sony's VR goggles/breakout box will require a HDMI 2 port for the two video streams @ 120FPS which HDMI 1.4 can't support. At the present time the second separate stream exits the Southbridge chip on the USB as h.264 compressed 720P video and the breakout box uncompresses and sends it via a HDMI port to the TV. This is a Kludge because Sony goofed when designing Southbridge or it's cheaper to do it this way or the PS4 has a HDMI 1.4 port. My opinion supported by two Sony employee quotes is that the PS4 has a HDMI 2 port but Southbridge doesn't support all HDMI 2 features.
This October the PS4 will be getting a firmware update for VR and with it likely support for 4K media, HDMI 2 with HDR , Embedded Playready, OpenVX for Game developers (They have to enable this for vision processing which will be used for VR) , Browser update to support HTML5 <video> MSE EME, ooVoo, Vidipath and more. Amost all of this is made possible by APIs calling the Southbridge ARM Trustzone TEE. Embedded Playready is 100% in the TEE, the APIs calling HTML5 <Video> EME MSE 100% in the TEE, the Video WebRTC APIs for ooVoo 100% in the TEE with the UI running in the browser which is the PS4 AMD APU. Full screen video for all media Players should have the PS4 APU off with GDDR5 in self refresh. Instant wake for the APU when any browser UI is needed.
Browser VR, 4K Antenna TV VR and UHD Blu-ray VR are coming using Antenna TVs HEVC profile 10 multi-view plus depth map..this is also mentioned in papers and articles.
SmartWaffles
Member
This is a jeff rigby thread alright...
thetester77
Member
Whats possible and what will become reality are 2 completety different things though Jeff.
I'm not in a position to say you are incorrect with any of your information but Sony are not going to come out with a PS4K and talk about 4k media and enhancements for games and then say 'oh yeah and we've just updated the OG Ps4 with UHD Media support inc HFR and HDR.... but you should really still buy our new Ps4k'
Too confusing - won't happen for either streaming or physical media, that will be reserved for the new model to differentiate.
I'm not in a position to say you are incorrect with any of your information but Sony are not going to come out with a PS4K and talk about 4k media and enhancements for games and then say 'oh yeah and we've just updated the OG Ps4 with UHD Media support inc HFR and HDR.... but you should really still buy our new Ps4k'
Too confusing - won't happen for either streaming or physical media, that will be reserved for the new model to differentiate.
jeff_rigby
Banned
In the past Sony has never introduced a major feature to a PS3 that wasn't possible on the Launch PS3. This includes HDMI 1.4 features even though the PS3 shipped with an older HDMI 1.2 port that supposedly couldn't' support 3D which required HDMI 1.4. They are again trying to not breaking this with NEO.
Sony NEEDS the millions of launch PS4s and XB1s as well as PCs (This is probably why Sony has a PC UHD BLu-ray player licence.) to support UHD Blu-ray and 4K media in all it's forms to insure UHD Blu-ray takes off. They need the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge and Vidipath for similar reasons. They want the Synergies that are going to happen with Cell Phones, ATSC 3, Vidpath and the game consoles.
The launch PS4 and NEO will be PS4Ks and this is why I thought the PS4K rumor was confusing the PS4 being firmware updated to support 4K Media. PS4.5 on the other hand confused me as that would indicate more performance and that might turn out to be true. Having the NEO name does differentiate and advertises the PS4 NEO - Morpheus "Matrix movie VR"support for VR at the same time....very very smart.
Neo is just an internal code name much like Orbis was...
To Jeff's credit, his post are based on something other than wild theories of his own creation.
The resulting thread he makes may be highly speculative, but they at least have a origin of something other than his imagination
jeff_rigby
Banned
Forbes just posted an article and there are two large threads on NeoGAF wondering why they should spend money to upgrade when NEO, according to Sony, will be locked down to supporting older PS4 games with only a framerate or slight resolution bump which is hardly noticeable. Why the 2X perfomance in NEO?
Some facts first: HDMI 2 is necessary for Sony's Playstation VR Googles and breakout box because one of the HDMI 2 modes is a two stream with Separate video and audio from the VR feed that can have anything displayed including Video chat or a separate game view for multi-player games or a TV channel on the TV at the same time you are playing a game with the VR Goggles.
The HDMI 2 multi-view feature on a 3D TV with active shutter glasses or autostereoscopic with viewers in sweet spots can have two separate views with sound out of the PS4 controllers to play multi-player games or to watch two different TV programs at the same time. HDMI 2 also has a Multi-view over LAN which treats video coming in through the LAN port just as if it were coming in over a HDMI port.
Possibly the HDMI 2 multi-view allowing 2 views is a reason for 2X the PS4 performance. All PS4s including the Launch versions (with a kludge using the USB port) can support this but the games on Launch PS4s will be limited in resolution even more.
Edit: I'm wrong on this. At the present time either the PS4 southbridge can't support this, or the PS4 has a HDMI 1.4 port which I think unlikely. For sure the NEO should and the above applies.
Some facts first: HDMI 2 is necessary for Sony's Playstation VR Googles and breakout box because one of the HDMI 2 modes is a two stream with Separate video and audio from the VR feed that can have anything displayed including Video chat or a separate game view for multi-player games or a TV channel on the TV at the same time you are playing a game with the VR Goggles.
http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-playstation-vr-breakout-box-is-not-a-crutch-for-ps4-psvr-playstation-4-virtual-reality/ said:
The HDMI 2 multi-view feature on a 3D TV with active shutter glasses or autostereoscopic with viewers in sweet spots can have two separate views with sound out of the PS4 controllers to play multi-player games or to watch two different TV programs at the same time. HDMI 2 also has a Multi-view over LAN which treats video coming in through the LAN port just as if it were coming in over a HDMI port.
Possibly the HDMI 2 multi-view allowing 2 views is a reason for 2X the PS4 performance. All PS4s including the Launch versions (with a kludge using the USB port) can support this but the games on Launch PS4s will be limited in resolution even more.
Edit: I'm wrong on this. At the present time either the PS4 southbridge can't support this, or the PS4 has a HDMI 1.4 port which I think unlikely. For sure the NEO should and the above applies.
Daffy Duck
Member
Straight Edge
Member
Jeff has a beautiful mind.
CoffeeExpress
Member
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
No, he predicted Kotaku/WSJ/Eurogamer had misunderstood the information they received, and the PS4k was actually just a special firmware update that would give the PS4 a massive jump in sales.
Then why does the PS3 Slim-onwards support Bitstreaming audio whilst the PS3 fat doesn't?
DistortionOfReality
Member
This all sounds like complete nonsense. As it was every other time I have seen it posted. I'll have to look out for Jeff's name from now on.
Let's face facts here, if it could be done on current consoles, it would have been done or reported on by now. Not just some theories from a gaming forum poster.
Let's face facts here, if it could be done on current consoles, it would have been done or reported on by now. Not just some theories from a gaming forum poster.
I thought there was evidence that the multiview feature of the breakout box was being done using the system's internal share video recording and USB.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...tation-vr-external-processor-unit-actually-do
The actual source soulful be the talk Eurogamer is referencing, but I don't have time to do more digging.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...tation-vr-external-processor-unit-actually-do
As I recall, the compressed stream is sent over USB, not HDMI.
The actual source soulful be the talk Eurogamer is referencing, but I don't have time to do more digging.
Daffy Duck
Member
It was more a reference to the last part of your username and Regular show and the fact of flipping tables because of your whackyness with this theory.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
Why are these threads allowed?
jeff_rigby
Banned
Your correct I edited my post. It's a kludge that won't be necessary with the NEO or on AMD APUs and dGPUs that support HDMI 2. Either the Southbridge doesn't support Multi-view or less likely the Launch PS4 doesn't have a HDMI 2 port despite two Sony employees stating it does, Playready Porting kit 3 which requires a HDMI 2 (Sony lists both Playready and WMDRM, WMDRM is included in Playready kits below 3) and it has a custom HDMI chip which would not be needed as HDMI 1.4b supports 120FPS which VR uses.
Adam Tyner
Member
What happened to flipping over tables because of people's repeated incompetence at not recognizing that this would obviously only be possible with HDMI 2?
lasrmountedmoai
Member
Even if this is true Sony is not going to allow it to happen if the playstation is the console in question. Gotta sell those Neos.
LOL!
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, it's you, Rigby.
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
I love jeff_rigby threads.
Why are these threads allowed?
fuck, RIP my keyboard.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
I don't know what to think now... What is real?
ThisIsMyName
Member
In love the fact that someone with the GAF name "Fox Mulder" came and posted this within this thread, lol
DarkConfidant
Member
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
Meanwhile, at Sony HQ's basement...
Again, Jeff, the PS VR "only" gets a single 1080p stream at 120 Hertz via HDMI, containing both eyes' views side by side. If a game produces a second video stream (e.g. Playroom VR), it is delivered to the breakout box via USB.
EDIT: I am sure I explicitly read that somewhere, have been googling for it for half an hour without success. it might have been in Chris Norden's slides for developers on the second day of GDC.
EDIT: I am sure I explicitly read that somewhere, have been googling for it for half an hour without success.
it might have been in Chris Norden's slides for developers on the second day of GDC.No and even better, Jeff also can't.
hemo memo
Member
This is slowly starting to make sense but too much information for my little brain.
TurboButts
Member
I'm #TeamRigby
The hero Gaf deserves, but not the one it needs right now
The hero Gaf deserves, but not the one it needs right now
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
And yet they had to ship the Slim with an updated HDMI chipset to allow HD Audio proprietary formats' bistreaming. Up to the Slim (and also only by firmware 2.30 in the case of DTSMA) the PS3 could only decode Dolby True HD/DTS HD/DTS MA internally to lpcm to enjoy HD audio with BRD.
This is also the reason why since the beginning PS3 games had to use the much more space-consuming LPCM 7.1 to offer lossless multichannel audio, like Resistance FoM for example, instead of DTS HD Master Audio.
edit:
what Vashetti said
great minds think alike
jeff_rigby
Banned
I found it after androvsky posted the correction. Yes HDMI 1.4b can support 120FPS for VR and a USB port can support a kludge for the separate mode so there is no reason for the custom Panasonic HDMI chip in the PS4 except to support HDMI 2 with HDCP taking place in Southbridge as required.Again, Jeff, the PS VR "only" gets a single 1080p stream at 120 Hertz via HDMI, containing both eyes' views side by side. If a game produces a second video stream (e.g. Playroom VR), it is delivered to the breakout box via USB.
EDIT: I am sure I explicitly read that somewhere, have been googling for it for half an hour without success.
I did what I usually do and while I am accurate on what HDMI 2 supports I assumed the PS4 supported all HDMI 2 features especially one they should want to support but Separate Mode was not a feature envisioned when the PS4 was designed it came later (in the VR lecture). I'm guessing that parts of Southbridge are fixed silicon that can't be firmware updated to support all HDMI 2 features and someone goofed in not supporting 2 video streams likely because the Launch PS4 is considered under powered.
I posted a Sony employee stating the PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, Sony saying the PS4 would support 4K media and that the Intellectual property notice lists both Playready and WMDRM. Playready porting kits below 3 have WMDRM as a subset so there is no reason to list it which, unless there is another reason or ignorance, means the PS4 should have Playready 3 which requires a HDMI 2 port.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
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