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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

Dahbomb

Member
If they ever were to patch marvel (lol), I'd hope they take aim at one-player-game type stuff and get rid of it. Most of the things I dislike about Marvel fall into that camp (missiles, Zero, TAC infinites).
I am firmly in this camp as well and I have already called for a nerf on Viper's unblockable. Also any combos that are too long like SS loops or Zero combos.

By the way.... how fucking scummy is it to mash on Hidden Missiles during an air reset situation and then get out of it scotch free?

Oh and Karst I was talking about the last Champ vs ChrisG match.
 

Zissou

Member
It's funny that hidden missiles was inadvertently buffed when they fixed the assist damage scaling bug in vanilla. It used to be way easier to nuke assists (right?).

Mashing hidden missiles during the reset was dirty as hell, but I can't lie- I will now mash vajra in when I'm being hit by a combo in the air (knowing my luck, I'll eat a happy birthday, haha)
 

Dahbomb

Member
Bout as scummy as mashing Lariat assist when getting comboed and then getting a ToD OTG combo on them.
Mashing Lariat while tech rolling is super scummy and shouldn't be allowed just like calling assists in mid air when you tech.

I have actually seen this before being used by KBeast and his Magneto plus Jam Session only he did it after teching a throw at super jump height.

Also I lol'd at Kubota escape being used in a real game. The funny part is that Champ crossed himself up and then got mixed up by Vergil anyway!
 
It's funny that hidden missiles was inadvertently buffed when they fixed the assist damage scaling bug in vanilla. It used to be way easier to nuke assists (right?).

Mashing hidden missiles during the reset was dirty as hell, but I can't lie- I will now mash vajra in when I'm being hit by a combo in the air (knowing my luck, I'll eat a happy birthday, haha)
When I have to play point Dormammu vs. Wolverine, I mash Dark Harmonizer while being comboed. If I get reset, at least I got another third of a bar toward Dark Phoenix, lol!

What do you mean about the assist damage buff? Damage by assists was changed, not damage to assists.
 

Zissou

Member
When I have to play point Dormammu vs. Wolverine, I mash Dark Harmonizer while being comboed. If I get reset, at least I got another third of a bar toward Dark Phoenix, lol!

What do you mean about the assist damage buff? Damage by assists was changed, not damage to assists.

In vanilla, if you did a beam hyper or something and the point character and assist both were hit by it, damage would scale properly (though the assist ate double damage or whatever because assists get hit harder), but if the point character blocked, the assist would take unscaled damage. It didn't scale the subsequent hits of the hyper because the point character wasn't being comboed. Like a single Ryu beam hyper in vanilla would take off 90 percent of Sent's life when he was called as an assist.

Scummy/dirty tactics don't matter as long as you win

I think everyone in this thread would agree with you. You're preaching to the choir.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Scummy/dirty tactics don't matter as long as you win
I don't care if he used it (this is Marvel you do whatever is necessary) but what grinds my nerves is that this is YET another reason to have Missiles on your team and mash on it like a scrub to bail you out of a bad situation. It also marginalizes actual resets (as if TAC infinites weren't already bad enough) so now you might actually get punished for completing an air reset. That is beyond dumb.
 
Scummy/dirty tactics don't matter as long as you win
How controversial.

In vanilla, if you did a beam hyper or something and the point character and assist both were hit by it, damage would scale properly (though the assist ate double damage or whatever because assists get hit harder), but if the point character blocked, the assist would take unscaled damage. It didn't scale the subsequent hits of the hyper because the point character wasn't being comboed. Like a single Ryu beam hyper in vanilla would take off 90 percent of Sent's life when he was called as an assist.
I think it's like this (could be wrong):

Vanilla:
-Both characters got hit? All damage scaled.
-Only assist got hit? Damage unscaled.

Ultimate?
-Both characters got hit? Damage scaled for point character, unscaled for assist.
-Only assist got hit? Damage unscaled.

So I think Assists are easier to kill now.
 

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
I don't care if he used it (this is Marvel you do whatever is necessary) but what grinds my nerves is that this is YET another reason to have Missiles on your team and mash on it like a scrub to bail you out of a bad situation. It also marginalizes actual resets (as if TAC infinites weren't already bad enough) so now you might actually get punished for completing an air reset. That is beyond dumb.

Honestly, I'm probably going to beat a dead horse and shouldn't use this reference, but MvC2 had a lot of that. Just mash on Psylocke, Commando, or Cyclops.

The game is legitimately cheap, awful, dumb, and that's what makes it so fun and enjoyable to watch. I don't think it should ever be touched again (Except for maybe TAC infinites getting removed). Just let the game run its course and have the players determine the metagame.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Honestly, I'm probably going to beat a dead horse and shouldn't use this reference, but MvC2 had a lot of that. Just mash on Psylocke, Commando, or Cyclops.

The game is legitimately cheap, awful, dumb, and that's what makes it so fun and enjoyable to watch. I don't think it should ever be touched again (Except for maybe TAC infinites getting removed). Just let the game run its course and have the players determine the metagame.
Yea MVC2 had dumb stuff too plus it also had lock down strategies that people actually got hyped over. But that's a different time and different game. They purposely changed so many of the MVC2 stuff so that we wouldn't see the same BS again and well.... we are seeing similar stuff again.
 

Azure J

Member
I think everyone in this thread would agree with you. You're preaching to the choir.

I play the grimiest team in this thread and I'm slowly learning that I'm too honest. Mashing assist on tech roll, wakeup S and things like that are just too much for me. A part of it is because I feel like the options are too much of an antithesis to learning (and very unsafe), but after seeing JWong wake up every single time with Tatsu, Chris G get a wakeup volley of Missiles out that managed to ruin the other guys' combo completely (I forget who this happened to but it was definitely during top 8), and other moments of getting congratulated for genocide (fuck getting away with murder), I'm wondering if I'm not the one in the wrong.
 

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
The conversation after majors always turns to balance patches. And honestly, they should. This game has some pretty obvious problems, and when the commentators are talking about what nerfs they think Morrigan should receive while watching Morridoom on stream, I really hope SOMEBODY at Capcom is listening. After FR was over Twitter was blowing up about how the counter to Morridoom is Morridoom and how there are simply things in this game that need to be addressed from a balance perspective. FChamp's Tweet rings pretty true too, the best of the best still can't find out how to beat this.

My opinion on it is this: UMvC3 is quickly moving toward an end game where there is a small amount of viable strategies, and those strategies aren't interesting to watch or play against. Don't get me wrong, if you want to WIN, you need to make better choices at the character select screen, as Yipes said. Unfortunately, in the sense of actually having a game that's fun to watch/play, those choices are: Zero, Vergil, Morrigan, and Doom. As the game's life progresses those teams are going to become really stale really fast from both a spectator perspective and a "well I'm gonna have to use one of these 8 characters if I want to win" perspective. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 is an extremely popular spectator game, but will it remain that way as more and more people start switching to Morridoom?

In my opinion for a fighting game to have longevity as a competitive game it needs one of two things: a large pool of viable characters, or a great amount of diversity and playstyles in a small pool of viable characters. Marvel 2 had the latter in spades, although there were only 10 or so viable characters, the different amount of team compositions and playstyles they enabled was huge and it remained a huge hit and well respected game even if half of the roster was useless at high level. Not so much for this game. Morrigan and missiles plays the same across the board, as do how you play Vergil with Missiles optimally, or Zero optimally. The good shit is there, either use it or win, or continue trying to make a interesting unique team work and lose. A lot of the most interesting characters are competitively irrelevant at this point.

There was a pretty good amount of character diversity in finals, but then we saw Morridoom vs Morridoom it was pretty anti-hype, it reminded me a lot of the Phoenix vs Phoenix EVO finals the first year of MvC3.

At some point Capcom is going to have to acknowledge people aren't really happy with the state of this game and do something about it. Its not going to remain as popular as it is when everyone and there mother is running Morridoom because it simply is just the best and anything else is a waste of time. Games that have only one or two viable endgame strategies are rarely remembered very fondly.

I know people like to think there is some magic counter to Morridoom but let me ask you this: if it turns out there really isn't, and Morridoom really is the end all be all strategy of UMvC3, are you still going to play, or be as interested in developing tech for your team?

UMvC3 greatest strength is how much it encourages creativity and developing good team synergy, but as time goes on, its quickly losing this asset.

In an ideal world this game will get a balance patch and Capcom will bring top Marvel players on board to help with the process, similar to how ComboFiend helped with SFxT2013 and is going to be helping with the new SF4 update.

Well, that's quite a bit off my chest, but I really think its in Capcom's best interest to develop an update for this game, and I don't buy for a second that they can't do one because of contract obligations. If that's the case why did they even waste time nerfing Phoenix Wright's invincible assist, fixing the throw bug, and fixing the DLC costume glitch? If they could patch that shit they can certainly patch this game.

I want a patch because I really like this game and I think the direction it is heading is pretty boring and terrible.
 

Zissou

Member
I think it's like this (could be wrong):

Vanilla:
-Both characters got hit? All damage scaled.
-Only assist got hit? Damage unscaled.

Ultimate?
-Both characters got hit? Damage scaled for point character, unscaled for assist.
-Only assist got hit? Damage unscaled.

So I think Assists are easier to kill now.

I just popped in vanilla to check- I did Doom/Dante/Ryu THC against Viewtiful Joe while he called Taskmaster assist. In vanilla, if I recorded Joe to block, Task died as an assist from the THC, while if Joe got hit as well, Task took maybe 60 percent damage, but lived. In Ultimate, I did the same thing and Task took 60 percent regardless of whether I recorded Joe to block or just eat the hits. Definitely used to be easier to nuke assists. I think that's why I remember Viscant talking about Sent's health nerf being such a big deal because people could choose to nuke him at will when people called drones assist carelessly, while at 1.3 mil health, players didn't have to worry about it as much.

@FuLLBLeeD- Nitsuma knows what high level play is like and seems to be indicating that he'd like to fix things (but can't, for various reasons, most likely of which is Marvel license issues). They know, but their hands are tied.
 

Dahbomb

Member
This game has some pretty obvious problems, and when the commentators are talking about what nerfs they think Morrigan should receive while watching Morridoom on stream, I really hope SOMEBODY at Capcom is listening.
Capcom IS watching and probably listening too... but they aren't doing anything about it or even planning on doing anything about it. The commentary on the latter portions of the matches was abysmal despite being the two of the better commentators there... they couldn't commentate the match despite it being a "high" level match. "ChrisG throws 2 more fireballs while calling assist.... player 2 blocks... timesx50"

I think Capcom just wants this game to die as fast as possible.

Also the viability of the cast is very high... IF missiles didn't exist. A ton of characters can body Vergil head on for example... even Iron Fist can beat him for example. But can Iron Fist beat Vergil with Missiles? No because by the time he gets out of block stun from Missiles Vergil will have another Round Trip charged up. A lot of characters can easily beat Magneto as well INCLUDING Haggar but once Missiles come into play that match up becomes horrid. The assist is OP and it's almost single handedly killing the meta game.
 
Capcom is listening and watching so closely that ComboFiend is on the mic.

Morrigan/Doom is not going to become a common team because Morrigan is hard as hell to play consistently. ChrisG is the only player this weekend that wasn't dropping stuff. His execution is perfect - you can't X-Copy that.

Edit: And people aren't talking enough about ChrisG going 0-3 against Angelic. ChrisG can talk about not getting to warm up all he wants, but you don't go 0-3 without there being something to the team you're fighting. There are answers to Morrigan/Doom all over the place. One is right in front of our face and no one gives a shit because it would mean picking Shuma-Gorath.

If the rumored (patchable!) Capcom All-stars were to come, I could live with Marvel 3 dying.
As long as it has the same team structure system, I'm there day 1. With or without Nina.
But oh my god please put Nina in. Nina and Morrigan on the same team would be too good.

I just popped in vanilla to check- I did Doom/Dante/Ryu THC against Viewtiful Joe while he called Taskmaster assist. In vanilla, if I recorded Joe to block, Task died as an assist from the THC, while if Joe got hit as well, Task took maybe 60 percent damage, but lived. In Ultimate, I did the same thing and Task took 60 percent regardless of whether I recorded Joe to block or just eat the hits. Definitely used to be easier to nuke assists. I think that's why I remember Viscant talking about Sent's health nerf being such a big deal because people could choose to nuke him at will when people called drones assist carelessly, while at 1.3 mil health, players didn't have to worry about it as much.

@FuLLBLeeD- Nitsuma knows what high level play is like and seems to be indicating that he'd like to fix things (but can't, for various reasons, most likely of which is Marvel license issues). They know, but their hands are tied.
I am corrected.
 

Azure J

Member
spQHrcI.jpg


Saw this somewhere else and lol'd
 
JRosa am cry.
JRosa is nowhere near ChrisG, and that people lose to his shoddy play shows how weak the competition is. That man spams Soul Drain instead of Soul Fist. What the fuck. That's ridiculously unsafe even with Hidden Missiles, but he gets away with it because people see a fireball on the screen and run to the corner to block.

Edit: Azure, you need to post that around.
 

vocab

Member
Capcom IS watching and probably listening too... but they aren't doing anything about it or even planning on doing anything about it. The commentary on the latter portions of the matches was abysmal despite being the two of the better commentators there... they couldn't commentate the match despite it being a "high" level match. "ChrisG throws 2 more fireballs while calling assist.... player 2 blocks... timesx50"

I think Capcom just wants this game to die as fast as possible.

Also the viability of the cast is very high... IF missiles didn't exist. A ton of characters can body Vergil head on for example... even Iron Fist can beat him for example. But can Iron Fist beat Vergil with Missiles? No because by the time he gets out of block stun from Missiles Vergil will have another Round Trip charged up. A lot of characters can easily beat Magneto as well INCLUDING Haggar but once Missiles come into play that match up becomes horrid. The assist is OP and it's almost single handedly killing the meta game.

I've been saying that for a while. It would make the game so much better.
 

Zissou

Member
I feel like there's a rock-paper-scissors thing going on marvel where smart/thoughtful players lose to YOLO but stand the best chance against Chris G- they just get bopped before they make it all the way through their bracket. Chris G in turn beats YOLO. I really want to see the Yipes matches that were off-stream :(
 

Frantic

Member
I play the grimiest team in this thread and I'm slowly learning that I'm too honest. Mashing assist on tech roll, wakeup S and things like that are just too much for me. A part of it is because I feel like the options are too much of an antithesis to learning (and very unsafe), but after seeing JWong wake up every single time with Tatsu, Chris G get a wakeup volley of Missiles out that managed to ruin the other guys' combo completely (I forget who this happened to but it was definitely during top 8), and other moments of getting congratulated for genocide (fuck getting away with murder), I'm wondering if I'm not the one in the wrong.
Sometimes you have to do dumb shit in this game. Waking up with a button/assist, doing raw supers for the hell of it, mashing throw during blockstun/pressure/mixups, etc, etc. It'll feel scrubby as fuck, but sometimes you just gotta do something stupid. Not always(and never make it a habit to do random shit), but sometimes you'll have to 'just do it'.
 
JRosa is nowhere near ChrisG, and that people lose to his shoddy play shows how weak the competition is. That man spams Soul Drain instead of Soul Fist. What the fuck. That's ridiculously unsafe even with Hidden Missiles, but he gets away with it because people see a fireball on the screen and run to the corner to block.

Edit: Azure, you need to post that around.

I can tell bad MorriDoom users by the way they get stumped when I cleanly avoid the wall of Soul Fists by stalling in the air. Some of them even forget to call Missiles. The good players immediately react to my stalling and try to tag me out of the air.
 

Dahbomb

Member
And people aren't talking enough about ChrisG going 0-3 against Angelic.
People aren't talking about it because no one saw the match. It's hard to say what exactly was that allowed Angelic to win. Some people said he got some lucky Chaotic Flames off with XF.

It could simply be ChrisG playing bad for his starting game. He was complaining about how it sucked he had to fight a Wolverine in first round and that he hadn't warmed up yet.
 

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
Why exactly Capcom just do another patch? How does Marvel have them by the balls that bad? It doesn't really make sense to me. They patched the game and made changes before.
 

J-Tier

Member
Why exactly Capcom just do another patch? How does Marvel have them by the balls that bad? It doesn't really make sense to me. They patched the game and made changes before.

Licensing on the Marvel front. Nobody likes lawsuits. Risking millions of dollars to cater to those asking for patches is a no-no. Both parties must agree.

On the Capcom front, the former Marvel team is busy/split with other projects. They would need a time frame to get back together and work on this.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Why exactly Capcom just do another patch? How does Marvel have them by the balls that bad? It doesn't really make sense to me. They patched the game and made changes before.
Sven cited licensing issues as a reason they can't "expand" on Marvel. Plus the team is disbanded doing other stuff.
 

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
Sven cited licensing issues as a reason they can't "expand" on Marvel. Plus the team is disbanded doing other stuff.

I thought it was all Dimps? And they still had enough people to push out SFxT and SSF4 updates.

When I say update I mean a balance patch or "2013" edition if you will, not a new installment. But UMvC3 didn't do that well so I can see why they might just us to forget about it as you've said. Thankfully the metagame will probably do that in a few years.
 

Sigmaah

Member
I need help with finding a new way to play this game, I play ZMC for the most part and now have a second team set, Wesker/Hawkeye/Sentinel but they're all mostly rush down, (besides Hawkeye/Sent).
I wanna pick up new chars and just learn a new way to play, any suggestions?
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
If the rumored (patchable!) Capcom All-stars were to come, I could live with Marvel 3 dying.

Do we know anything about this game other than the title? It could just be an iOS game for all we know.


Sometimes you have to do dumb shit in this game. Waking up with a button/assist, doing raw supers for the hell of it, mashing throw during blockstun/pressure/mixups, etc, etc. It'll feel scrubby as fuck, but sometimes you just gotta do something stupid. Not always(and never make it a habit to do random shit), but sometimes you'll have to 'just do it'.

When you're in a reset situation where you will lose a character because you need to guess, and mashing on a button mitigates some of that risk? Then you should be mashing that button. But there are obvious disadvantages to mashing on that button as well. In Chris G's case, he was mashing on Missile Assist, but he still could have gotten blown up by a TAC. He read the reset potential.
 
why do i insist on playing against randoms online? shit just pisses me off.

is a wesker/doom/vergil team YOLO enough? i think i might try it.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
I just popped in vanilla to check- I did Doom/Dante/Ryu THC against Viewtiful Joe while he called Taskmaster assist. In vanilla, if I recorded Joe to block, Task died as an assist from the THC, while if Joe got hit as well, Task took maybe 60 percent damage, but lived. In Ultimate, I did the same thing and Task took 60 percent regardless of whether I recorded Joe to block or just eat the hits. Definitely used to be easier to nuke assists. I think that's why I remember Viscant talking about Sent's health nerf being such a big deal because people could choose to nuke him at will when people called drones assist carelessly, while at 1.3 mil health, players didn't have to worry about it as much.

@FuLLBLeeD- Nitsuma knows what high level play is like and seems to be indicating that he'd like to fix things (but can't, for various reasons, most likely of which is Marvel license issues). They know, but their hands are tied.
Don't those supers do less damage since they're mashable and you can't mash assist hypers during a THC?
 

Bizazedo

Member
Edit: And people aren't talking enough about ChrisG going 0-3 against Angelic. ChrisG can talk about not getting to warm up all he wants, but you don't go 0-3 without there being something to the team you're fighting. There are answers to Morrigan/Doom all over the place. One is right in front of our face and no one gives a shit because it would mean picking Shuma-Gorath.
Ding ding ding.

Wolverine, Shuma..I wonder if that's the guy I played at Evo.
 
I need help with finding a new way to play this game, I play ZMC for the most part and now have a second team set, Wesker/Hawkeye/Sentinel but they're all mostly rush down, (besides Hawkeye/Sent).
I wanna pick up new chars and just learn a new way to play, any suggestions?

Well if you mostly play rushdown, then why not switch it up to zoning? Try x/Dorm/Doom.

Or you could always try to come up with some new wacky shit that you think would work in theory. It's how I've created some of the teams I have the most fun with...and a surprising amount of success with.
 
Man, what the hell is going on with Champ vs Chris G? He's looking like an abused stepchild if the stepchild was one of Pavlov's dogs. PTSD through the roof. That is some learned obsolescence. Deer in the headlights.
 

Sigmaah

Member
Well if you mostly play rushdown, then why not switch it up to zoning? Try x/Dorm/Doom.

Or you could always try to come up with some new wacky shit that you think would work in theory. It's how I've created some of the teams I have the most fun with...and a surprising amount of success with.


I've tried Zoning, I liked it but I don't think I gave enough time, will try it again and ill come up with something super lame to annoy people, maybe Hawkeye/Dorm/Doom?
 

Azure J

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";52265967]Man, what the hell is going on with Champ vs Chris G? He's looking like an abused stepchild if the stepchild was one of Pavlov's dogs. PTSD through the roof. That is some learned obsolescence. Deer in the headlights.[/QUOTE]

He was THOROUGHLY broken at the end of the Loser's Finals set. So many people look like Morrigan actually stole their soul this competition.
 

onionfrog

Member
I've tried Zoning, I liked it but I don't think I gave enough time, will try it again and ill come up with something super lame to annoy people, maybe Hawkeye/Dorm/Doom?
If you want to play lame, I find that Hawkeye/Dante/Sentinel is quite good.
Hawkeye backed by Jam Session and Drones is pretty damn effective.
 
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