Support NeoGAF

[TheRedSnifit]

1: When you're on the mountain, the blizzard ebbs and flows. Some parts of the mountain are completely clear. Especially the icy slope that takes less than a minute to walk up that some people find such a chore. The complaints about Jake's Chapter 2 are so bizarre because tiny issues get magnified into these supposedly glaring flaws.

You clearly have an incredible tolerance for bullshit if you think the hunt-the-keycard-with-visibility-so-bad-you-need-a-goddamn-map-and-get-shot-by-snipers-and-slide-all-the-way-down-if-you-slip sequence is a "tiny issue."

People don't pick on that part because they're bullies who hate Capcom, they pick on it because it sucks.

2: During the Jake helicopter fight, you can of course anticipate where the helicopter will drop off J'avo, climb the rope, and shoot the pilot in the face, ending the boss fight. In fairness, not that many people know this. But it is possible.

That's actually good to know. If my family's ever held hostage and I have to run through RE6 again, at least I'll be able to skip this shitty boss.

3: A lot of Max Payne 3 takes place in corridors, too. Doesn't make the game's level design poorly designed. The Evil Within is the same. Huge sections of TEW take place in linear corridors -- TEW's version of the catacombs is a good example. Corridor sections are not inherently bad. Turning everything into an arena blatantly designed for combat is how you get stuff like Doom 2016.

Corridor shooters aren't inherently bad. Nor are they conducive to RE6's mobility-based controls, hence why I said the level design discourages you from using said mobility-based controls and encourages cover shooting (which is done much, much better in other games).

What would RE6 need to do to "fix" its level design? I certainly think more working doors would have been good, for example. But some of RE6's detractors seem to basically want to turn the game into an arena brawler/shooter, which would suck

Make it more open so you aren't punished for playing the game in the ''''''right'''''' way people on this forum praise.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

You clearly have an incredible tolerance for bullshit if you think the hunt-the-keycard-with-visibility-so-bad-you-need-a-goddamn-map-and-get-shot-by-snipers-and-slide-all-the-way-down-if-you-slip sequence is a "tiny issue."

The visibility problems are exaggerated because the weather comes and goes. And as I mentioned earlier, Capcom literally hand you a sniper rifle and a snowmobile to help you get up the slope. They probably should have added an alternate route up, though. And perhaps allowed players to steer themselves onto a "non-ice" side area.

Corridor shooters aren't inherently bad. Nor are they conducive to RE6's mobility-based controls

I disagree. You can dodge in a hallway. You can shimmy backwards. You can do a flying kick. You can knock enemy's legs out from under them. Should RE6 have featured some more open areas? Sure. Variety is good. But turning the game into a series of open areas would have been bad. RE6 needed linear sections for pacing and narrative. Also, excessively open level design makes it harder for the AI to surround and swarm the player.

Make it more open so you aren't punished for playing the game in the ''''''right'''''' way people on this forum praise.

How are you punished? The entire moveset in RE6 is useful in some way even when you're fighting in a literal corridor. For some reason, people ignore/forget that huge sections of the Mercenary maps are like 3-4 meters wide. There is no significant level design difference between RE6's campaign and its Mercenaries and some Mercs maps are chopped up sections of the campaign. Everything you can do in Mercs, you can do in a typical campaign segment.

Take this gif I found. The guy is fighting in an area that is about 3 meters wide. Many sections in Mercs are like this. I don't see him being "punished".

edit:

RE6 lets you roll side to side and shimmy backwards. You don't need a lot of room to dodge enemies while laying on the floor. It's not like you leap sideways and smack into the wall or something. The level design doesn't get in the way of the game mechanics.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

But Uncharted 4 doesn't let you do the kind of things RE6 does. You can't slide along the ground in Uncharted 4. The developers didn't take sliding along the ground and turn it into a code mechanic. Resident Evil 6 isn't a "third person shooter", per se. It's a third person character action game. It has guns, sure. It has a cover system, sure. But the cover system is an extension of the sliding system. Which ties into the fact that when you have your gun lowered, and when you have your gun raised, your movement set is completely different.

RE6's cover system is designed differently to its contemporaries, but it works extremely well within the context of the kind of game RE6 actually is. Half the reason the cover system exists is so you can slide along the ground, slide into cover, and then regenerate stamina for more hand-to-hand combat. But you can also take pot shots while you wait.

The game just never clicked with me on a number of levels really.

The controls are not as good / tight as 4 or 5 and the camera was horrible (although made a bit better with the patch)

The cover system was clunky - easy to jump over a wall by mistake instead of hide behind it or accidentally stick to a wall when trying to aim at an enemy if standing close to a wall. It could have been made better.

All the sliding around and melee combat looked cool but felt out of place in a RE game and the regenerating health made the game far too easy.

The story was far too bloated and ridiculously over the top (plane crashes, helicopter crashes / chases, car chases, enemies with guns) it felt more like COD than RE.

Now it's not the worst RE game ever (Operation Raccoon City / Umbrella Corps) but for me, it's the worst main RE game. It was just an alright action game with the RE name stuck on the box but was far removed from what I liked about the Resident Evil series. Being a fan since the original game, it was sad to watch it devolve into mindless action without the survival horror elements. RE4 is still the best "action RE game" because it has a perfect balance of horror too.

 

[Kazuhira]

I'm pretty much in the neutral zone about which type of RE i want now,let's just say as long as the game is high quality i don't care if it's action,horror or a mix.
I don't like 6 for the most part,those cool mechanics are inside a game with too much decisions that i can't agree with:
-I don't like the level design,aesthetics of the campaigns and how scripted they are.
-Awful inventory and boring skill upgrade system.
-Shooting and aiming feels off with most weapons compared to 4&5,especially with the machine guns.
-Those odd decisions that i don't even know how to describe,do you remember the segment where you need to save the hostages from the spider terrorists? well,i don't want to see that kind of shit ever again.
-Considering the focus of the game,your weapon arsenal is pretty dissapointing.
+Dodging,walk&shoot and the melee system(too OP though) are difinitely the best thing they added to this game,the cover system is a kinda shitty though.
+Mercs and the other modes are a hella lot of fun,and no wonder that most of the gifs in this thread are from these bonus modes.
+No more stupid AI partner that just ends up being a inventory mule.
+A great package overall,lot of content and replayability with those bonus modes.

You want to be action-oriented? Totally fine with it but do it right,the main SP campaign always had more weight than the extra bonus and that's why 6 is so dissapointing TO ME.
A game with RE6 movement mechanics(not the aiming/shooting part though)+RE engine+The beautiful artstyle of RE7 would be a fucking dream.
As for RE7,i love the game because it did so many things right in my book and i hope they keep it as a foundation for future installments,being FP or TP doesn't matter to me..i love both views equally(maybe add an option to switch back and forth between both views in RE8? can't be that hard).
The main issue i have with 7 is the lack of content,they basically have the skeleton of what i want for future RE games but now they need to add more meat to those bones.
Obviously,i'm open to new possibilites but right now my ideal next step would be that RE8 is just 7 but three times longer,more enemy variety,more bosses,more guns,bigger areas with the same quality of level design of the mansion,greenhouse etc and more extra modes with cool rewards for the SP campaign(like RE3/4's mercs mode)

Finally,this are my overall feelings of all the games i've played in the series:
-I adore REmake,2 and 4.(best of the best in the whole franchise to me)
-I love RE3,5 and 7
-Had a great experience with CVX,Zero,REV1 and 2 and the Outbreak games.
-Ok experience with 6,Gun Survivor,Dead Aim,Umbrella Chronicle games and the ORC games.
Again this is just my feelings and not a ranking,don't go "why did you put X game on the same level with Y game! blah blah"
As a long-time fan i shouldn't be complaining tbh,some experiences were better than others but overall this franchise has given me a shitton of fun.

 

[Neff]

And as I mentioned earlier, Capcom literally hand you a sniper rifle and a snowmobile to help you get up the slope.

I won't lie, I totally missed the sniper rifle on Jake 2 first time, even though it's right there in front of you when you start the level. The blizzard probably obscured it, lol.

Besides that little embarrassment, I love Jake 2, and I agree the complaints about it are absurdly overblown. I always welcome any rare sections in TPS RE where you get to explore, and the ice slide asks no more of the player than not getting shot, and remembering not to slide, idiot. The white-out moments are a unique obstacle at worst- you can tell when you're being targeted since you can see enemy laser sights, and your quickshot will still target nearby enemies you can't see, simultaneously setting them up for melee and informing you of their location.

It also has some of the best cutscenes in the game (supergirl, the cabin). It even gave me a GoldenEye 007 vibe, for some reason.

Great level.

 

[AdaWong]

There's a good post on reddit that offers some evidence towards some of the myths presented as fact towards RE6. Myth 4 and 6 being the most important ones.


-Myth 1 : " RE6 had a staff more than 600 People while RE7 had only a 120 Staff members "
While the First Part of Myth is totally true , The Overall Staff members of RE6 were over 600 people but At the same time Kobayashi the Producer of the game mentioned that 150 staff member of the 600 were on Japan , Which people usually overlooks this info
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/re.../1100-6349247/
Now on the other side , It is being spread that Staff members working on RE7 are only 120 People , But they forgot to mention that this number is for the staff members working only on Japan according to RE7 Producer Kawata Who also noted that "Resident Evil 7's team size hasn't shrunk "
https://www.polygon.com/e3/2016/6/15...hazard-e3-2016
Now what about the worldwide staff Members for RE7 , Capcom didn't say an official number like in the case of RE6 , But one look at the credits of RE7 will tell you that the staff members for RE7 isn't 120 like the myth is saying , In fact it is no less than RE6 Staff members
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windo...hazard/credits

-Myth 2 : " RE7 Budget is tiny compared to RE6 Budget "
There are two main kinds of budget , Development Budget and Marketing Budget
For the Marketing Budget , Then RE7 budget was equal or even more than RE6 budget, and no i didn't come this up from my mind , It is Capcom's head of marketing who said that
https://www.videogamer.com/news/capc...few-8s-as-well
Now for the Development budget , Capcom didn't reveal any Official data or comparison on RE6 or RE7 development budget , So any talk that RE7 development budget is a fraction of RE6 budget is just a wishful thinking with no official data to back it up , If you want my "opinion" on this , Then I think Re7 Development budget is lower than RE6 but not in a huge difference , But is my opinion a fact ? no it isn't as long as it isn't backed up with official facts or numbers

-Myth 3 : " RE7 failed to reach its target because of RE6 reception "
This can go into two ways : The logical way and the facts way
Logical way : I can get it if RE6 and RE7 are in the same style , But the truth is RE6 and RE7 are black and white in everything , The target market here isn't the same target market here , So any talk that an TPS Action game affecting a FP Horror game just doesn't make sense , It is like saying that I didn't buy MGSV because I didn't like Metal Gear Rising and Vise Versa
Facts way : Before the end of FY2016 I can say that I don't have any data on this matter , But when the results of FY2016 revealed , We found out that the port of Resident Evil 6 on PS4/X1 had crossed the 1M units mark and Capcom Being Satisfied with it , So is it logical that a game that is "supposed" to have a negative impact on its its following title to have its Remaster itself to get 1M copies in less than a year in the Same Year that its Following Title was announced and released ?

-Myth 4 : " RE7 Recouped its Development costs at 3M while RE6 needs 7M to recoup it "
It is True that Capcom said that RE7 recouped its development costs at 3M but I have a question , How many AAA Companies even mentions or celebrates or making a press release to say that their AAA game recouped its Development costs ? The Answer is Null , Because as an AAA Company , That is totally logical Predictable step and isn't a huge achievement to brag about so AAA Companies ignores it , For Example FFXV director Hajime Tabata mentioned that FFXV Recouped its development costs day one ONLY when he was specifically asked about it in an interview that was held 4 months after the game release
http://www.dualshockers.com/final-fa...costs-day-one/
And that leads us to a question , What If RE6 Recouped its development costs day one ? I will tell you how based on Calculations based on Official numbers that shows you that RE6 isn't that far from Recouping its Development costs day one
RE6 shipped 4.5M day one , The Common Split Percentage that Publishers and developers are getting out of a single Physical copy is at least 30% and 15% in order and As Capcom is the developer and Publisher at the same time so that about half of $60 , 4.5 x 30 = 135M , Now which was the game with the most development budget in that Era , It was GTAV and it released after RE6 with a development budget of about 137M , Assuming at max that RE6 budget is the same as GTAV , Then RE6 had recouped its development costs day one
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/n...l/e121004.html
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...n-says-analyst
And By Logic , If RE6 needs 7M to recoup its costs ( Its initial target number) , Then RE7 should had recouped its development costs at its target which is 4M , Which of course isn't the truth

-Myth 5 " RE6 sold all of its 8M copies at bargain bin Prices while RE7 sold its 3.7M copies at full Price "
According to Q2 FY2012 , RE6 Shipped 4.5M at launch and "sold" 3.7M at launch
http://i.imgur.com/YbcsWC3.jpg http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/d...11_full_01.pdf
Then at Q3 FY2012 3 Months after the game release ( At Dec 2012) Capcom said that they "sold" an additional 1.1M
http://i.imgur.com/aywOG1t.jpg http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/d...012_3rd_01.pdf
Now when did RE6 starts to hit the $20 price , It is at Feb 2013 , 5 Months after release and it was only in one place that is best buy
http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2013/02...est-buy/29172/
Notice how they label it "best price yet" indicating that it didn't go lower than that before
Now if we go to RE7 , We will discover that it went to the $40 price only less than a month after release
https://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/c...zard_ps4x1_40/
And it was at $30 after only four months of release
https://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/c..._steam_302350/

-Myth 6 " Capcom said that RE6 is a failure "
There isn't a single interview or official statement from Capcom that said that RE6 was a failure , Instead we have a direct word from Kawata saying that RE6 was a success , They may have said The game might not have been the megaton success they had hoped , They may have said that they put too many ideas into it at the same time but it didn't work and its scale was too big and not focused but at the end it is still a success after all
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-resident-evil

https://www.reddit.com/r/residentevil/comments/6qa6s6/time_to_clear_the_myths_since_2012/

Wow oh wow oh WOW! RE6 truly STAYS winning. Poor haters!

Jawmuncher I think I love you btw!

 

[Neiteio]

There's a good post on reddit that offers some evidence towards some of the myths presented as fact towards RE6. Myth 4 and 6 being the most important ones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/residentevil/comments/6qa6s6/time_to_clear_the_myths_since_2012/

Essential reading.

 

[Eolz]

There's a good post on reddit that offers some evidence towards some of the myths presented as fact towards RE6. Myth 4 and 6 being the most important ones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/residentevil/comments/6qa6s6/time_to_clear_the_myths_since_2012/

Wow, that's some great post, nearly thread-worthy.

 

[RedSwirl]

I tried to get back into RE6 last year and just couldn't do it.

It's got good action mechanics and such once you know what to do, but the way the scenarios are designed just ruins the whole thing. RE6 makes all the worst mistakes of last-gen AAA shooters. The whole game feels like a bloated mess that shrouds the core of something that could've been good.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

Some things occurred to me recently regarding RE6.

1: Resident Evil 6 is very easy to exploit so long as you're willing to take 30-40 hours to complete a 20 hour long game. As in, you can complete huge sections of RE6 by running in circles while your invincible AI partner kills everything for you. When playing as Chris, Piers can revive you over and over and over again. Sure, a 3 minute long battle will take you 30 minutes this way. But it's possible. And I think this is both a blessing and a curse. It means less skilled players can blunder their way through. But it also attracts criticism of not being hard enough. Some people find RE6 to be "impossible", while others find it piss easy.

2: Resident Evil 6 needed to be tightened up. Yet paradoxically, it needed more room to breathe. For example, Ada Wong's campaign should have been fleshed out to 7+ hours with lots of puzzles and stuff. In order to keep the game around 20 hours, 1-3 hours should have been removed from Jake and Chris' campaigns. Additionally, the final section of Leon's campaign turns into a series of boss battles. There needed to be more downtime. More exploration. More just walking around with banter between characters. If this meant chopping out a few action sequences, so be it.

3: There's nothing wrong with vehicle sections, per se. They're a good change of pace, and a great excuse to geographically relocate your protagonists from A to B. I think the mistake Capcom made one or two of them are bland and mind-numbingly generic. The fighter jet was unique. It was a fun change of pace. The car chase was every bland TPS vehicle section from Enter the Matrix to Binary Domain mashed into one. I remember that FEAR once upon a time had a car chase or something that got cut from the game. Worse, the car section was mechanically unrefined, and visually poor.

I feel RE6 is a fantastic game. It feels so good to play in a way that gifs can't convey. The movement, the shooting, the melee is all "goodfeel". It was so frustrating playing MGS V after RE6 and trying to sprint at an enemy to shove them. In RE6, your character actually does a flying kick (female) or a shoulder slam (male). In MGS V, Snake stops dead in his tracks and does this silly punch. RE6 implements TPS melee combat in a way that feels so good and natural that it makes many other games feel a bit frustrating. I'm not saying it's the best at each of its elements -- but combined into a package, the whole thing feels so good and fun to play. It's similar to how Crysis 1 fans feel about that game.

RE6 is a flawed game that manages to be fantastic -- IMO -- once you get to know it. Once you embrace its eccentricities and overcome the lack of tutorials. I've sunk hundreds of hours into the game. I love it to bits. The advantage RE4 has is that it's mechanically concise, easy to understand, and fairly consistent from start to finish. Now this consistency can be a bit boring. But it's consistent. The issue with RE6 isn't that the campaigns are different -- if anything, they should have been MORE different. The issue is that within a single campaign, the pacing and quality of level design and set pieces is inconsistent. There's a lot to be said for cutting weak sections from a game to make the entire package stronger. There's a lot to be said for saying, "Do we need this fetch quest?" Resident Evil 6 would be a fantastic candidate for a modding project to tighten up the flow and pacing of the overall game.

 

[Neff]

40 hours to complete a 20 hour long game.

My first run was 38 hours!

My only issues with RE6 are the overlap of content between scenarios (the 4-player stuff, basically), and any scene with a gunship being an orgy of player ineptness and death unless you have a very specific, abusable gameplan beforehand. The train stuff on Leon 4 is awkward. Simmons' penultimate boss form still takes way too long to kill.

Some of it could be cut, sure, but generally speaking I pretty much love all of it.