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Verge: New Hololens impressions "demo videos are all basically a lie"

I

InaudibleWhispa

Member
Archaix said:
Because the stage demonstrations are all people playing pretend, not demonstrations.
Click to expand...

Most of the staged Kinect demos were real. Hence how we've famously seen the bottom of an avatars foot. It was the proof of concept videos like the montage and Milo stuff that wasn't real. The infamous Star Wars gif wasn't a Kinect stage demonstration, he's a cirque du soleil dancer.
 
A

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
jaypah said:
Shit man, I thought you were serious. Didn't realize that was an opinion, I thought you had read it somewhere.
Click to expand...


The Hololens absolutely exists and more or less does what they say it does. I didn't mean to imply the product itself is faked, just exaggerated in its potential and the actual experience.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Archaix said:
The Hololens absolutely exists and more or less does what they say it does. I didn't mean to imply the product itself is faked, just exaggerated in its capabilities and the actual experience.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'm hoping to purchase one so I would have liked to see an approximation of the FOV too.
 
K

killer rin

Member
So basically what we already knew. Wow, thanks for the insightful news Verge! We totally haven't heard this from anybody who has ever tried HoloLens and given an impression!
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Three said:
It's staged. The hololens units are a mockup and the on stage user has no interaction with the shown interface. A lot more than just the FOV is faked. You can see this with the gesture that is outside the hololens's FOV for gestures and a missed cue after the player follows him (Where he is meant to make it follow his hand, it does so before any interaction and then a late gesture that the headset on his head would not see). At one point you can even see the unit isn't on. It is a completely staged fake demo. Much like some the early kinects demos before it. Look at any impressions from Milo too.

The thing is it would have been rather easy to get a feed from the prototype. Think of why that isn't the case.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed the part where they say it works.

Oh, and early staged demos? That avatar moving was staged when we saw under the shoe?
 
W

watership

Member
Archaix said:
I'm acting like Microsoft has a corporate culture of always lying to the public until the last possible moment, which is completely accurate. They have to prove that there's reason you shouldn't be extremely skeptical of everything they say, and faking even parts of demos doesn't help.
Click to expand...

lol. wow. Okay.
 
S

SPDIF

Member
Three said:
It's staged. The hololens units are a mockup and the on stage user has no interaction with the shown interface. A lot more than just the FOV is faked. You can see this with the gesture that is outside the hololens's FOV for gestures and a missed cue after the player follows him (Where he is meant to make it follow his hand, it does so before any interaction and then a late gesture that the headset on his head would not see). At one point you can even see the unit isn't on. It is a completely staged fake demo. Much like some the early kinects demos before it. Look at any impressions from Milo too.

The thing is it would have been rather easy to get a feed from the prototype. Think of why that isn't the case.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the units aren't mock-ups since the press and developers have been using them, untethered, for the past few days. As for the bolded, do you have a timestamp of a video that you can link to? I want to see what you're talking about.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
InaudibleWhispa said:
Most of the staged Kinect demos were real. Hence how we've famously seen the bottom of an avatars foot. It was the proof of concept videos like the montage and Milo stuff that wasn't real. The infamous Star Wars gif wasn't a Kinect stage demonstration, he's a cirque du soleil dancer.
Click to expand...

No need for revisionist history. That gif absolutely came from a staged Kinect demo at E3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiN0Tdzgsc
 
T

Three

Member
NeOak said:
I guess you missed the part where they say it works.

Oh, and early staged demos? That avatar moving was staged when we saw under the shoe?
Click to expand...

It works but not with the accuracy as shown in a staged demo. That demo was faked. Like I said how would a gesture work if the equipment cannot see it?

Milo "worked" in a staged demo too. Just read the hundreds of impressions from project natal.
 
S

Shaunboy97

Member
I'll tell you what.... Since I'm going to E3, I'll try and demo the device and let you guys know the truth!!! So many articles describing it as JUST like what we've seen, and then you read one article and you jump down MS throat. Figures...

But time will tell
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Aside from FoV, everything else that Verge reporter talked about sounded great. I'm not really familiar with Hololens, but it looks like more than pie-in-the-sky vaporware to me.

When she described the image as not being pixels, but photons that intrigued me, especially assuming she's also tried the Rift, as I have, which is pixels all the way down.
 
K

killer rin

Member
H3XAntiStyle said:
That sucks.... That said, if it's only the FOV that's borked... that's actually not TOO bad. It's disappointing to be sure, but I'd expect them to figure that out relatively soon actually.
Click to expand...

Heres the thing. We dont even know if it is coming out this year. All we know is that HoloLens is coming out within the "Livespan of Windows 10" So it could come out this year, next year or 3 years from now. For year down the line until launch, thats another year that they have to improve hardware and improve FOV for the Gen 1 product.
 
F

firelogic

Member
Ape said:
Did she just treat that like a review unit? :lol

This could be a 16-24 months away from a commercial release and we get this video. It almost seems personal to her.

It blows me away how someone writing for a tech blog doesn't understand how iterative technology is. She's surely been around tech long enough to see something like the Oculus go through hardware revisions, right? Maybe not though.

Bizarre.
Click to expand...

They're reporting on what it's like now. And right now it's BS. Would you rather they wrote glowing pieces about the potential of it instead of where the technology currently sits?
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
I get why they fake demos. Nintendo did it for real with Skyward Sword and look how that turned out. It's just hard to get things working at that scale in a auditorium environment.
 
Z

Zedox

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMuwQVZ5KY

Impression by Windows Central who also went to the first event.

Also, can people stop saying that the stage video was faked. It wasn't. The camera's entire "eye" was using the Hololens' lens. So it's FOV was 100%. And since it was farther away, it could see all the stuff that was holograms. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Gosh guys.
 
T

Three

Member
SPDIF said:
I'm pretty sure the units aren't mock-ups since the press and developers have been using them, untethered, for the past few days. As for the bolded, do you have a timestamp of a video that you can link to? I want to see what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

https://youtu.be/3AADEqLIALk

3:04. During the clapping he misses his cue to perform a gesture to move the window, then does a half-assed follow my hand gesture that is outside the headsets camera/kinect sensor FOV.
 
M

maniac-kun

Member
All these headset display things forget about people with glasses. Oculus Rift and GearVR are terrible already for people who use glasses.
 
A

Americanmushroom

Banned
If people thought the demos MS showed were real, they're the only one to blame. I thought it was pretty obvious that those demos they showed were just like the kinect ones: An exageration of the possibilities. Hololens is a Kinect 3.0... where people are gonne be fooled just like the wii and other 'holy shit I'm in the game' gimmicks. Only VR can make you feel like you're in the game... and that makes people nauseous.

Can't wait untill a this crap is over and we go the the next step... probably stuff connected to your brain and you just think what you want to happen in the game lol
 
R

Rats Off To Ya

Banned
Shaunboy97 said:
I'll tell you what.... Since I'm going to E3, I'll try and demo the device and let you guys know the truth!!! So many articles describing it as JUST like what we've seen, and then you read one article and you jump down MS throat. Figures...

But time will tell
Click to expand...

It's almost as if Microsoft has given us reason to be skeptical when they show off a crazy, futuristic device.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
wachie said:
Why aren't other outlets calling this out?
Click to expand...

Check the last page--they are. Gaffers and I posted a bunch of impressions from other outlets. They just aren't blowing it out of proportion.

maniac-kun said:
All these headset display things forget about people with glasses. Oculus Rift and GearVR are terrible already for people who use glasses.
Click to expand...

Can't remember the outlet, but someone mentioned he used it just fine with his glasses on.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
jaypah said:
Lol you didn't watch this video, did you?

But yeah, the famous gif is from the circus show when they unveiled Natal.
Click to expand...

Hey I watched part of it! :p

Back OT. I'm curious realistically how wide of a FOV they will be able to achieve with Hololens. As I said earlier, VR uses lenses in the headset to expand the FOV of the displays. AR does not have such a luxury. I'm guessing the best we can hope for is glasses equivalent FOV, which seems like it would be OK for a consumer product.
 
K

Krakn3Dfx

Member
2thepoint said:
Another case of Milo, it seems.
Click to expand...

Still waiting to ask Milo several inappropriate questions.
EVeMaew.jpg
Click to expand...
 
B

Bookoo

Member
Sucks because that's what we heard back in January, but the way they used that camera rig this time it looked like they may have fixed it.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Three said:
https://youtu.be/3AADEqLIALk

3:04. During the clapping he misses his cue to perform a gesture to move the window, then does a half-assed follow my hand gesture that is outside the headsets camera/kinect sensor FOV.
Click to expand...

Debatable. Remember that the device also has eye-tracking, which some apps use for a cursor. It's possible this was used in this demo.

Looks to me like he was expecting it to follow his head/gaze (he looks to the position of the wall, then turns back, which is when it "unpins" and starts following him). He only raises his hand to tap, which is the primary input method for gestures.

It is possible that someone else is controlling the selected/current "action" backstage (as in, choosing when it follows him, when it releases, etc.), but I don't see this as evidence of the entire demo being staged.
 
B

BRocknRolla

Member
chadskin said:
So it's basically Kinect all over again.
Click to expand...

Exactly. They sold that product on the back of exaggerations and lies. I see no reason to think HoloLens will be any different. People shouldn't be taken in by ads and claims being made right now. It's PR and little more until an actual, functional, purchasable product is in people's hands. We should understand this much by now when it comes to new tech, and with MS particularly.
 
P

Pathfinder

Member
I'm still excited for the potential.

As far as the actual capabilities of the product, I'll wait to make a judgement when the product has matured and is ready for public consumption.

I don't see much point in jumping on the Microsoft hate train over this. It's a brand new product that's still in development.
 
H

Heigic

Member
It really shouldn't be compared to Kinect. Kinect was just one piece of hardware designed for the Xbox whereas with this Microsoft have created Windows Holographic an operating system for AR. The "operating system" part works perfectly fine. I don't think Microsoft have conveyed this very well Hololens is just the first device that uses Windows Holographic. It's just the reference device to show what the platform is capable of.

If you watch this interview: @ 7:15 https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2015/C9-08 It's clear this is an operating system play from Microsoft not a hardware.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
Gen 0 or 1 hardware, as long as the holograms are clean Fov can be improved
with later gen when the tech matures and processing power increases.
 
B

bj00rn_

Banned
It's funny, but what she basically is talking about wanting (wanting to believe something is there with you) is simply..VR.. And a mix of AR and VR in a VR HMD will solve all of these "problems".

Three said:
https://youtu.be/3AADEqLIALk

3:04. During the clapping he misses his cue to perform a gesture to move the window, then does a half-assed follow my hand gesture that is outside the headsets camera/kinect sensor FOV.
Click to expand...

Nah, it was locked to head tracking. And this is a red herring anyway, the Hololense has been demonstrated, so we already know it basically works (just not with the FOV shown from the third person perspective cam).
 
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