ShellyDeKiller
Member
Yeah. For example, Gears for Breakfast want to port A Hat in Time to Wii U, but they need to obtain a license for the Unreal Engine, which costs $500,000+.
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Where is Unreal Engine 4?
- Thread starter Averon
- Start date
Yeah. For example, Gears for Breakfast want to port A Hat in Time to Wii U, but they need to obtain a license for the Unreal Engine, which costs $500,000+.
That would explain too many things perfectly for this to not have some truth. :|
it seems to be a lot easier for developers to make their own engines this time around on the PS4 and XBone.
Might be the reason why not as many devs are jumping straight into UE4. PS360gen it made more sense to a lot of devs to save the time and money and just go with UE3 and have a solid starting foundation to build upon. GDDR5.
Also could be partly due to UE4 having targeted such high specs, especially with their lighting. Could be that by the time they got a viable alternative, devs had already decided on something else. Seems devs got started early this time around and had an easy transition from ps360 to PSBone gen hardware.
Might be the reason why not as many devs are jumping straight into UE4. PS360gen it made more sense to a lot of devs to save the time and money and just go with UE3 and have a solid starting foundation to build upon. GDDR5.
Also could be partly due to UE4 having targeted such high specs, especially with their lighting. Could be that by the time they got a viable alternative, devs had already decided on something else. Seems devs got started early this time around and had an easy transition from ps360 to PSBone gen hardware.
mangochutney
Member
I think you mean cheaper? Because how is it going to be easier to make everything yourself from scratch than have someone else do all the work for you.
UE3 was one of the first proper next generation engines back in 2005, and it was made by a developer with a proven track record.
That was probably the reason many studios went with UE3 back in the day.
Early games on the engine had disappointing performance and large amounts of texture pop in, Epic was late to the party when it came to modern lightning tech as well. Dice had to license Beast when they made Mirror's Edge.
Larger companies ended up making their own specialized tech; (Frostbite, Framework, Panta Rei, various internal Sony/MS/Nintendo/publisher-engines), and many of the B-tier developers that used to by UE for it usability have gone under.
Indie teams often use engines like Unity with what I assume is lower licensing costs or, in cases of less graphically intensive games, make their own.
Other high profile developers end up going with heavily customized versions of UE3 that have been tailor made to their own needs to such an extent that UE4 might not be needed.
Thus support for UE4 has dried up.
Or at least that's what I think.
That was probably the reason many studios went with UE3 back in the day.
Early games on the engine had disappointing performance and large amounts of texture pop in, Epic was late to the party when it came to modern lightning tech as well. Dice had to license Beast when they made Mirror's Edge.
Larger companies ended up making their own specialized tech; (Frostbite, Framework, Panta Rei, various internal Sony/MS/Nintendo/publisher-engines), and many of the B-tier developers that used to by UE for it usability have gone under.
Indie teams often use engines like Unity with what I assume is lower licensing costs or, in cases of less graphically intensive games, make their own.
Other high profile developers end up going with heavily customized versions of UE3 that have been tailor made to their own needs to such an extent that UE4 might not be needed.
Thus support for UE4 has dried up.
Or at least that's what I think.
Better tools and techniques make things easier.
Like how realtime lighting takes away some of the time spent baking light.
edit:
Using someone else's engine might take longer if you end up having to rework the engine to suit your needs.
In that case just making your own engine from scratch might be less work, and also save you some time and money.
Portugeezer
Member
Proprietary engines are always better if this gen is anything to go by. Using a middleware engine like UE might not be what a developer needs for their game, might limit their game in some ways. Epic would dispute this of course, but with UE3 it was hard to create a good looking open world game or large scope game.
The best looking games are on proprietary engines: Uncharted for Naughty Dog, Killzone Engine for GG, Ubisoft used Assassins Creed engine for many games well, and of course Epic mastered UE3 and developed Gears 3.
All those games you listed are UE3. The thread is asking about UE4 games. Putting Lost Planet 3 in the same list as Knack only confuses people, unless you are engaging in a campaign of misinformation on purpose.
Guys, it has become sentient. It may be too late to stop it now
Zoramon089
Banned
I imagine Epic is trying to get global illumination working on consoles since the PS4 doesn't seem to support it and the Xbone is weaker (so it probably doesn't either). That and the streamlining of tools were the biggest draws
JimiNutz
Banned
I was really shocked that MS didn't have a new ip from Epic to show...
Epic not being at E3 at all was probably disappointment of the show for me (along with Xbox One pricing and policies).
Now that I'm going PS4, I hope that Epics next game is not MS exclusive.
Well on the one hand, the people who showed up with their own engines were overwhelmingly people who never used Unreal Engine in the first place.
On the other hand, the fact that basically no one who does use Unreal Engine showed up with a AAA Unreal Engine 4 game is rather concerning.
The main AAA licensors we know of are most of Take-Two's 2K studios, many of Warner's internal studios, and many of Microsoft's internal studios, all of which were conspicuously absent or still using Unreal Engine 3.
There was also a decided lack of AAA independent developers on the engine, but that doesn't surprise me given it's hard to get a AAA next-gen contract for early in the generation.
That said there have definitely been rumblings that they had to rework a fair amount of the engine after they dropped SVOGI, which probably delayed a lot of their clients including themselves.
As far as I know, SVOGI was dropped on PCs as well. See http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=537654
What I really hate the most about Epic is that when they disable features of the engine, they turn them off in the PC version as well. See Bulletstorm, UT3, and Gears of War being awful ports of the console version with no additional features, even though UE3 has tons of features that are still unused in any game. Bulletstorm going as far as locking the ini files to make FOV editing not possible. They seem to be doing the same thing with UE4. It's good to see the engine uptake being much less than UE3.
At least Crytek and DICE actually bothers to enable rendering features for their PC versions that would not work on their consoles.
UnrealEngine
Epic Games
A few more details.
I'm not trying to sell or promote UE. Every dev has to make a decision as to the best engine for the experience their trying to create, and ESPECIALLY at this time period, where hardware shifts are occurring.
I'm just here to answer questions as best as I can, and go get answers if I'm unsure, from either the devs or licensing or business guys as it pertains to them.
There's a lot of misinformation or assumptions out there, and I just want to clarify them.
As far as UE3 vs UE4, it's up to the developers to sort of make public what they wish to. I really only aim to confirm one way or another when they make the decision to do so. For some like Zombie Studios working on Daylight, they've been very vocal about UE4, as have a couple of Kickstarters, but overall if people are quiet about it, we respect it from our official standpoint. We're here to support them, after all.
Others submit a licensing query with details.
There have also been a few outliers which started on UDK and decided to move to UE3 Source, like Hawken. At the end of the day, it's always in your best interest to fill out the form and request further information, if you're evaluating a license for a commercial product.
Wasn't my goal to misinform. Rather to answer where Unreal Engine as a whole was at the show. I'm hoping that some further reading on the thread cleared up any confusion.
I'm answering the questions I can. Some of them require me to go talk to folks on Monday, while others I won't be able to answer.
Just trying to be of help.
I'm not trying to sell or promote UE. Every dev has to make a decision as to the best engine for the experience their trying to create, and ESPECIALLY at this time period, where hardware shifts are occurring.
I'm just here to answer questions as best as I can, and go get answers if I'm unsure, from either the devs or licensing or business guys as it pertains to them.
There's a lot of misinformation or assumptions out there, and I just want to clarify them.
*She.
As far as UE3 vs UE4, it's up to the developers to sort of make public what they wish to. I really only aim to confirm one way or another when they make the decision to do so. For some like Zombie Studios working on Daylight, they've been very vocal about UE4, as have a couple of Kickstarters, but overall if people are quiet about it, we respect it from our official standpoint. We're here to support them, after all.
Licensing terms are always something you'd want to discuss with our licensing team. For some folks, UDK ($99 fee once your game goes commercial, and royalties only after $50k in revenue) makes sense.
Others submit a licensing query with details.
There have also been a few outliers which started on UDK and decided to move to UE3 Source, like Hawken. At the end of the day, it's always in your best interest to fill out the form and request further information, if you're evaluating a license for a commercial product.
Wasn't my goal to misinform. Rather to answer where Unreal Engine as a whole was at the show. I'm hoping that some further reading on the thread cleared up any confusion.
I'm answering the questions I can. Some of them require me to go talk to folks on Monday, while others I won't be able to answer.
Just trying to be of help.
Arky Virus
Neo Member
Their engine seems to be coming irrelevant with the amount of Devs just making their own. I rather have a new Unreal game.
Ether_Snake
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My guess is the company isn't doing well at all, and at the same time they must be betting on a different market. If console games can only be high-end games, those companies can afford their own engines, and in fact need to, in order to cut the middle man and be able to adapt faster. So that leaves you with smaller companies, which there are fewer and fewer of on the console market.
With tables/phones getting more powerful maybe we'll see them make a come back, but my guess is that the challenging nature of making an indy game will have allowed indy developers to find their own solutions, or rely on open-source or free software, making UE pointless.
Not surprising Cliffy B left, he saw it coming I guess.
With tables/phones getting more powerful maybe we'll see them make a come back, but my guess is that the challenging nature of making an indy game will have allowed indy developers to find their own solutions, or rely on open-source or free software, making UE pointless.
Not surprising Cliffy B left, he saw it coming I guess.
UE4 reminds me of how the Quake 3 engine was absolutely ubiquitous back around 2000-2007, and then pretty much disappeared afterwards. It simply lacked the "next-gen" look and feel that gamers wanted. ID never managed to duplicate the success with the Doom 3 and the industry gave way to UE3 as the most popular engine. Maybe history is just repeating itself, and some other engine is going to be the most popular?
I'm seeing a crapton of CryEngine games, and everyone is developing their own proprietary engines. Perhaps that is the future?
I'm seeing a crapton of CryEngine games, and everyone is developing their own proprietary engines. Perhaps that is the future?
element
Member
Maybe you are seeing different games, because I am not seeing a "crapton" of CryEngine games.
Publishers will continue to invest in their own technology. EA with Frostbite and Ubisoft with their own technology as they have the resources and a shared technology worked on by multiple teams. Majority of independent developers will continue to license engines.
What you are seeing is a transitional phase where developers have to either make the choice to move to UE4 or continue to use UE3. Many developers make significant changes to best fit the needs of their games and if they migrate to UE4, majority of those changes would have to be merged which isn't a insignificant cost. Many developers will make the transition at somepoint, but you have to give it a little bit of time.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Hey unrealengine, how about releasing that infiltrator demo to the public... or the voxel based indirect lighting version of your ue4 elemental demo, that would sure be rad.
Betta Lines
Member
wat
STILLethal
Member
My guess: Rocksteady is working on a next-gen Batman/Justice League game using UE4 thats going to blow our minds once they announce it and show us footage
That'd be quite cool. Since the Infiltrator demo was running on a single 680:
http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/...80-powered-unreal-engine-4-tech-demo-unveiled
Would be nice to play around with.
I'm surprised they were a no-show. While they were getting a bit full of themselves, other studios were busy making just as impressive - or more so - engines. I don't think they'll be dominating like they did with the current gen, and I couldn't be happier too. Their engine had a distinct look you could recognize from a mile away. We need some diversity and competition.
Maybe the Xbone can't handle UE4 properly?
That would be amazing
But I think the most likely answer is that we're still in cross generational part of the console cycle so it's still current engines just ramped up to 11 or 12, I imagine UE4 will be in next years E3 when the games being made with it are ready to show off
That would be amazing
But I think the most likely answer is that we're still in cross generational part of the console cycle so it's still current engines just ramped up to 11 or 12, I imagine UE4 will be in next years E3 when the games being made with it are ready to show off
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
On the AAA end publishers are doing their own internal engines (EA, Ubisoft, SE, Rockstar, Capcom, Konami, etc) on the mid/low end Unity is taking over, Crytek's becoming competitive and UE4 offers less flexibility/support off the bat than UE3.
UE3 is like the Renderware of this gen in a lot of ways. I don't expect UE4 to be nearly as successful.
UE3 is like the Renderware of this gen in a lot of ways. I don't expect UE4 to be nearly as successful.
Epic's lighting model was already dialed back for PS4 iirc, it wouldn't surprise me if Xbone's recentered the bar even lower. Epic might as well support PS3/360/WiiU officially at this rate, at least they could push more adoption that way.
No, that would suck big time, even for PS4 owners.
Anyway, UE4 should be scalable/flexible enough to account for that. Does it support iOS as well?
element
Member
As said many many many times, that is a content issue not an engine issue. Are you saying Mass Effect looks exactly like BioShock Infinite?
Both noble ideas, but people use what works and something they can trust. Support is something that isn't even considered by fans. But support is a MAJOR part of licensing any software and Epic provides excellent support.
paperboywriter
Member
thank you.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Yeah I know right, every single ue3 game just happened to have similar content, it's just a massive coincidence it has nothing to do with the engine that you can tell a game uses ue3 from a mile away. /s
element
Member
Majority of it comes down to materials and how they use it. Any developer can go to the tutorial and learn how to apply a material, but how do they extend it past that point. That is where it becomes a content issue. All the power is there for developers to change the look and feel.
Why are you saying that? He is just informing us and that's good.
UnrealEngine
Epic Games
I have to make a correction -
After posting the list, I am removing Knack. I included it as some very reputable press tagged it as UE in Europe, but I've spent a few hours trying to trackback to an official announcement either on their side our ours, and can't find one.
In the interest of being as accurate as possible, I'm removing it until I can talk to the Licensing team in Japan early during their workweek. I should have done this before including it, but what I can do now is come clean that I'm not 100% sure on that one, and I'm finding out.
After posting the list, I am removing Knack. I included it as some very reputable press tagged it as UE in Europe, but I've spent a few hours trying to trackback to an official announcement either on their side our ours, and can't find one.
In the interest of being as accurate as possible, I'm removing it until I can talk to the Licensing team in Japan early during their workweek. I should have done this before including it, but what I can do now is come clean that I'm not 100% sure on that one, and I'm finding out.
And Samaritan while they are at it
No, but they got that smell about them.
I'm not exactly serious, but I think Bioshock Infinite has had a bunch of engine changes anyway. At what point does it become that's UE3 to that's customized UE3 so it looks different.
They blamed the PS4 lack of power on the removal of svogi, so it stands to reason the xbone cannot either. Dunno if the rest of the engine runs ok on the ms console.
element
Member
Like many licensed engines, you tweak them to best fit your goal. Irrational Games decided to rewrite the renderer, so did Gearbox with Aliens. This isn't uncommon. Unreal power comes from the toolset and what you do with it.
But again, it comes down to how you use the tool and the content. If you follow the one tutorial on how to use materials, then yes, it is going to look similar. Experiment with the tools at hand and you can do some pretty amazing things.
dragonbane
Member
No problems. Thank you for your time. And what you do is totally allowed here, as long as you don't start creating threads promoting the engine xD
To Far Away Times
Member
If it means less 30 fps brown and gray shooters then I'm all for it.
I distinctively remember a bunch of CryEngine games lately. Monster Hunter Online, Ryse, Star Citizen, Crysis 3 (duh) and so on. Maybe for various definitions of crapton it fits... That and Unity, though Unity is more of a mobile game engine.
My initial point was that UE3 is decidedly feeling last gen, and companies are either going their own way or move on to another engine, just like what happened with the Quake 3 engine. It seems very possible that UE4 will never really be a big deal, especially seeing how their biggest feature (SVOGI) never made it into the final version.
Your talking about what you would liked to have happened, not what happened. If their toolset is the great thing about it and with how things turned out looking similar then what does that say about the toolset? You can maybe say devs were stripped of time or budget to experiment, but maybe the toolset wasn't as flexible or easy to use as it should have been. I'm sure many did experiment, but something has to be said of why so many games ended up the way they did and UE is at least somewhat a part of that.
This! Please try to help