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Which VR hardware will be the one to go with?

R

RealityCheque

Banned
NotSmartEnough said:
My point was that it's a position that only the few can hold; without the early adopters to take the risk and pay the premium the technology fails and there is no 2nd gen.

With hindsight my post was unnecessarily rude. Sorry.
Click to expand...

No problem buddy. Very decent of you.

My position is that my rig isn't yet up to par for it, I'm planning to upgrade it at the end of 2016 but if I factor VR into it, that's just too much for my wallet to bear! If I wait a little we'll be nearing gen 2 around the time I'm ready.

And I wouldn't worry about a lack of support, there seems to be a lot of people ready for it on day 1 and they'll be the ones that show family/friends etc. Seems that once nearly anyone tries the tech, it quickly becomes a must-have item for them. You could see Christmas 2017 being a massive one for VR in all forms.
 
B

bj00rn_

Banned
There's not a huge "mass market" potential for first gen VR as I see it, and we dont really need it either. I do however hope it's going to be a good generation for the scene of enthusiasts, indies and for VR hardware and software to try find its place and hopefully distance itself from traditional gaming.
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
RealityCheque said:
No problem buddy. Very decent of you.

My position is that my rig isn't yet up to par for it, I'm planning to upgrade it at the end of 2016 but if I factor VR into it, that's just too much for my wallet to bear! If I wait a little we'll be nearing gen 2 around the time I'm ready.

And I wouldn't worry about a lack of support, there seems to be a lot of people ready for it on day 1 and they'll be the ones that show family/friends etc. Seems that once nearly anyone tries the tech, it quickly becomes a must-have item for them. You could see Christmas 2017 being a massive one for VR in all forms.
Click to expand...

As someone following VR tech very closely... there's no doubt to me that launch VR isn't mainstream VR, even though it'll be the first time that VR is readily accessible by the public.

It's certainly close to mainstream VR quality, but the big issue is simply content and awareness. Unless you have some specific game or application that you're really big into and want to play a heap of, then VR is going to be this wonderful toy that you take out for a spin frequently, but it won't truly change the way you use your computers.

But in a couple more years, there'll be enough content, content portals to make jumping onto VR a really viable experience. You'll still need your standard kb and mouse to supplement, but it'll be great. And people will discover social VR in a big way as well - because it's frankly goddamn amazing to sit in a virtual room and feel like you're talking to real people thousands of miles away like they're in the same space as you. Because in a certain sense, they absolutely are.

In about 5 years, you could comfortably use VR as your primary computing platform - web browsing, video watching, socializing, productivity applications, etc. At that point, it starts to go from really cool to new computing paradigm - able to enhance the way we do things now. That'll be around the time VR as a whole enters the mainstream - actually getting to the point where mass market adoption is guaranteed (even if it hasn't occurred in numbers terms yet).
 
D

Dodecagon

works for a research lab making 6 figures
I think in the short term PSVR is going to have more quality games, and in the long run every must have title will be available on rift or vive, with PSVR getting left behind a little. I really don't think you can go wrong, and ideally you get two with one of them being PSVR.
 
D

Dangoesforth

Member
In terms of cost, a PC alone that can handle VR to the frame rate the PS4 can deliver with VR will cost more alone than the PS4+VR (if $300-350 for headset); that is without buying an oculus.
That cost difference and ease of setup with PS4 will convince many people.
 
T

The Dutch Slayer

Member
Well as far as I can see now its, Oculus and Sony VR.
I trust Valve to have amazing hardware + long term view but seriously not sure about software and HTC support + distribution as of yet.

But Oculus and PS VR day 1.
 
I

inki

Member
I'm not going to be an early adopter. I'll wait about a year from launch (or GREAT Xmas deal 2016?) to figure out which one I want. I'm not sure where consoles are going to go next generation, I may switch to PC at that point. Right now I'm leaning toward the PS VR but I've got to see how it shakes out, I'm not buying another Kinect.
 
0

00ich

Member
I lean towards PSVR.
Primarily because I expect a brand new 14nm HBM graphic card will be a good complement to a PC VR headset and those will not arrive soon.
Plus VR headsets will evolve fast with better resolution, less screen door, eye tracking, hdr, wireless etc.
Also there is no quasi standard input for PC headsets. Lighthouse? A treadmill? 360 controller? Occulus' thingy? I don't even have an idea what room in my apartment I can use PC VR in.

PS VR with the old camera and move is a known. Early reports suggest a comparable experience nonetheless. There will not be a PS VR 2.0 before PS5 arrives because the fragmentation would be crazy.
Also Sony is in the best position to have good software throughout the first year.

I am quite sure I will be using VR primarily on my PC eventually, but as an early adopter I see me spending a lot of money on stuff that becomes outdated very soon.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
Terbinator said:
If you were to buy the Vive (as an example) could you use it as a cinema-size OLED screen in front of your face? Is that the whole point of VR?
Click to expand...
Not quite - Sony has actually sold things like that for years, designed for watching movies. But they never really felt any different from putting a phone next to your face - it doesn't look like a giant screen.

What makes VR headsets different, is they use special lenses to curve an image around your eyes, filling as much of your view as possible in a way that matches how you see, with more detail in the center and less in your peripheral vision. And they use a different image per eye to make it 3D. They then use motion sensors to detect how your head moves, altering what you see to match, tricking your brain into thinking you are actually looking around in another place. And then you can interact with the things you see using game controls. That is what these headsets do, they basically put you inside the video games, as if you could poke your head into your tv and look around.

Now, that can be used as a virtual cinema if you want - one popular use of VR is to make you think you are in a theater. You are surrounded by theater seats, sometimes by other virtual movie-watchers, and in front of you is a giant screen showing a movie. VR is very good at making you feel a real sense of scale, so it really looks like a 100-foot diagonal theater screen in front of you. Or Oculus has a Netflix app that puts you in a virtual livingroom in a mountain home, with a large-screen tv in front of you.
 
N

Noisepurge

Member
PSVR has the advantage of you (probably) already having a PS4. Oculus and HTC require you to (probably) beef up your PC for it to run smoothly.

But yeah, let's wait to see the prices first.
 
cheezcake

cheezcake

Member
Dangoesforth said:
In terms of cost, a PC alone that can handle VR to the frame rate the PS4 can deliver with VR will cost more alone than the PS4+VR (if $300-350 for headset); that is without buying an oculus.
That cost difference and ease of setup with PS4 will convince many people.
Click to expand...

That's not really how it works, a PC which can deliver an equivalent VR experience to PSVR is just a PC equivalent to the PS4 in terms of power.
 
M

mushrambio

Member
DSix said:
For now it's a coin toss between HTC Vive and Oculus Rift.

PSVR being locked to a console is a no no.
Click to expand...

And how is that a no no? It's clearly marketing the use for it's own proprietary console, as the place for console VR, as well as backing their owned Studios to make games for their hardware. How is that different from any other peripherial on a console, or exclusive content for tha matter? With the likes of Oculus and Vive being PC based, PSVR isn't trying to push for the greatest VR tech, and are easily aiming at a more consumer friendly device (from a price standpoint standalone, and needed hardware to use since a 300 dollar console is a lot cheaper than say an 800 dollar PC likely needed to run VR hardware). Not to mention, they are catering to their 30 plus million install base, with hopes to bring over even more consumers because it's VR tech is simple, plug and play, and has the developers making software. It's just like everything with consoles vs PC. /endrant

With that said, I'm still hesitant to buy VR since it's not out respectively, and I need to see it hands-on in order to gain perspective. I do love seeing the strong support it's getting though.
 
C

Chû Totoro

Member
The one with the best exclusives?

Of course there's differences regarding hardware but the games are relying on the hardware so you can enjoy them, if the hardware is good enough so the game can be enjoyed fully then I'll choose depending on the games.

What I mean is that a good VR game is only good is the hardware is also good enough not to break the game (weirdly phrased but I think you'll understand).

This said I'm more looking at PS VR than others since I have a PS4 (price will surely be the thing forcing me to wait though... not putting 300-400€on VR at launch or at the beginning).
 
0

00ich

Member
cheezcake said:
That's not really how it works, a PC which can deliver an equivalent VR experience to PSVR is just a PC equivalent to the PS4 in terms of power.
Click to expand...

no
a) there is no apu similar in power to the ps4. So you need a dedicated GPU plus stuff like the motherboard with it's socket, RAM as pluggable modules etc are more expensive. The RAM configuration with single pool of relative fast memory is still unique.
b) some metric like "frame rate your pc can maintain 99% of the time" will be important for VR, not average FPS.
On PC you typically need a lot more power to achieve that mainly because games are not optimized specially for that hardware combination.
There may be a certain effect that's too much for your graphic card. A console developer would replace the effect with something a little simpler that get's the job done. A Pc gamer ends up dialing back everything from high to normal or needs a lot more hardware to run everything on high.
Or: PS4 may be able to display 16 Enemies at once in a game before getting into trouble. The solution to maintain performance is easy: design each level so that it doesn't use more than 16 enemies in an encounter. On PC there is not even an option to scale back gameplay relevant stuff like that.
 
I

InaudibleWhispa

Member
Arkam said:
Slow your roll my friend. I am not attacking your prized possession. There are games that you can play now and there will be more. But I have not seen too many major titles announced for it yet. I have seen the countless indie/experiment titles and a handful of titles that got VR post ship support. I just havent seen anything that leads me to believe there will be the breadth of "full game" content the PSVR seems to be getting near launch. And that is what most mainstream users want. Games.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of full games either announced for Oculus and/or already supported. Just because they haven't been announced on a big stage at a press conference or they don't all have a headline grabbing franchise name like "Gran Turismo" or "Ace Combat" doesn't mean they don't exist. Here's some: The Climb, Rock Band VR, Trackmania Turbo, Fated, Job Simulator, Edge of Nowhere, Chronus, Nimbus Nights, Moon Strike, Surgeon Simulator, Darkfield VR, I Expect You To Die, Dead and Buried, The Gallery: Six Elements, KartKraft, Elite: Dangerous, Airmech VR, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, Battlezone, Gang Beasts, Technolust, Lucky's Tale, VR Sports Challenge, The Climb, Bebylon Battle Royale, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, Adrift, Minecraft, Eve: Valkyrie. All of those will be available if not at launch, then soon after. And Palmer recently said of Oculus's Launch line-up, "most of it hasn’t been announced".

So when you say "there is only ONE option... PSVR" and "the rest will leave you testing/developing til 2017", I'm not seeing any basis for that comment at all. Not to mentioned those hundreds and hundreds of demos and experiments on Oculus Share aren't to be taken for granted. Some of them are nothing short of mindblowing and they're great little experiences to fill in the gaps between full length games, and some are ambitious (and exciting) as hell like the guy modelling the entire Starship Enterprise. The fact that anyone can make and release anything is what makes PCVR so exciting and why, even for the DK2, there was a constant flow of content of all lengths and sizes.
 
0

00ich

Member
Skulduggery said:
I don't want to link it here, but do a google for VEIVIEW
Click to expand...
200.gif

We need ethics in video game pornography!
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
cheezcake said:
That's not really how it works, a PC which can deliver an equivalent VR experience to PSVR is just a PC equivalent to the PS4 in terms of power.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and you don't get that (the entire PC) for $300. Plus the stuff the PSVR breakout box does. You're gonna be paying significantly more for a PC + OR/Vive that can match the PS4 + PSVR experience.
 
D

Durante

Member
flyinpiranha said:
Rift. And probably PSVR. I don't care about 99% of Valves output so the Vive doesn't have that draw for me.
Click to expand...
I really don't think Valve's output is the draw for the Vive.

Room-scale VR is.
And, as someone who had access to VR since being the 58th backer for the Rift, it's a massive draw.

mushrambio said:
And how is that a no no?
Click to expand...
Are you seriously complaining about someone not wanting to buy a device locked to a console?
 
D

DangerMouse

Member
Sulik2 said:
Despite the weak hardware pushing graphics, Sony is making a pretty strong case with their software for PSVR. Ace Combat, RIGS, Summer Lesson, DOAX3, that heist game, Rez. Seems like they have a lot of quality software in the pipe.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm really liking the lineup and the hardware seems to reportedly be "good enough" to get some good looking VR.

I'll probably start with it and then if I like it add a PC set later.
 
cheezcake

cheezcake

Member
00ich said:
no
a) there is no apu similar in power to the ps4. So you need a dedicated GPU plus stuff like the motherboard with it's socket, RAM as pluggable modules etc are more expensive. The RAM configuration with single pool of relative fast memory is still unique.
b) some metric like "frame rate your pc can maintain 99% of the time" will be important for VR, not average FPS.
On PC you typically need a lot more power to achieve that mainly because games are not optimized specially for that hardware combination.
There may be a certain effect that's too much for your graphic card. A console developer would replace the effect with something a little simpler that get's the job done. A Pc gamer ends up dialing back everything from high to normal or needs a lot more hardware to run everything on high.
Or: PS4 may be able to display 16 Enemies at once in a game before getting into trouble. The solution to maintain performance is easy: design each level so that it doesn't use more than 16 enemies in an encounter. On PC there is not even an option to scale back gameplay relevant stuff like that.
Click to expand...

a) Doesn't have anything to do with what I said. It is more expensive, that's fair. An i3 + 750ti combo which consistently matches or outperforms the PS4 will cost you about $450 brand new.

b) That's not typical at all. Look at any Digital Foundry comparison video, the myth of console optimisation should be long dead by now. You're correct in that devs can carefully tune the experience to give consistent performance on the PS4, you're incorrect in assuming you need "a lot more power" on a PC to achieve the same performance floor. Besides Oculus has already provided a min spec for any software sold on its storefront so devs can do the same on PC, target a single spec for a minimum performance floor, people with better PC's can get a better experience.
 
S

Skulduggery

Banned
Durante said:
Are you seriously complaining about someone not wanting to buy a device locked to a console?
Click to expand...

I mean, it's a completely proprietary solution. I hate exclusives more than the next guy, but that's a little different. PSVR is going to be really good for VR as a whole. It's really polished and is poised to be a critical success, commercially. VR needs that legitimacy.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
RoadHazard said:
Yeah, and you don't get that (the entire PC) for $300. Plus the stuff the PSVR breakout box does. You're gonna be paying significantly more for a PC + OR/Vive that can match the PS4 + PSVR experience.
Click to expand...

Small $450 gaming PCs like Alienware Alpha are more powerful than PS4. But the thing is, PC VR headsets are designed to make full use of PC power - you can't play PS4-level VR on PC because Oculus told developers to write their games with a minimum system that includes an nVidia GTX 970 and an Intel i5-4590 CPU, and Vive is very similar. There might be some tech demos and simple games you could play with less power, but you aren't going to see PC VR games moving forward that could be played on a limited system.
 
cheezcake

cheezcake

Member
Arkham said:
Yeah, it's almost as bad as Oculus/Vive not supporting the PS4 or XBone.
Click to expand...

It's not equivalent, the PC is an open platform. None of the consoles are. Now if either the Vive or Rift are completely locked to software only available on a closed storefront then its equivalent, and I would likely end up not supporting them either.
 
D

Durante

Member
Arkham said:
Yeah, it's almost as bad as Oculus/Vive not supporting the PS4 or XBone.
Click to expand...
I can't believe people are serious with these types of false equivalences.

cheezcake said:
It's not equivalent, the PC is an open platform. None of the consoles are. Now if either the Vive or Rift are completely locked to software only available on a closed storefront then its equivalent, and I would likely end up not supporting them either.
Click to expand...
Pretty much.

(But we already know this won't happen, since both the Vive and the Rift will be supported by the OpenVR interface)
 
Tal Shiar Agent

Tal Shiar Agent

Member
PlayStation VR is the only one I am even remotely interested in. Games like Ace Combat 7 and potentially No Man's Sky will draw me in, assuming the price is right ($200 max for me to be an early adopter).

I'm not a PC gamer outside of Civ and Bethesda games, so unless Fallout 4, TES6, Fallout 5 have/get patched full VR I will have no reason to get a PC compatible headset.
 
A

Arkham

The Amiga Brotherhood
cheezcake said:
It's not equivalent, the PC is an open platform. None of the consoles are. Now if either the Vive or Rift are completely locked to software only available on a closed storefront then its equivalent, and I would likely end up not supporting them either.
Click to expand...

Exactly, it's apples v. oranges. No reason to complain that you can't have one on the other platform. It's the stupidest VR complaint yet. Buy the one for whatever you play on the most.

It's like "Gee, will the PC version have better graphics than the console version?" Well, DUH.
 
M

Mupod

Member
Most of the reason I'm interested in VR is its use with space sims. Elite, Star Citizen, and hopefully more to come (TIE Fighter 2 when?). However the PSVR has some actually interesting games lined up (I am the biggest Rez fanboy in the world). If it had PC support it'd be a no brainer.
 
iceatcs

iceatcs

Junior Member
I don't think I will get VR day one because I realise my PC is not ready for 1440p90hz all the time.

PSVR I think it has a chance my next one if the price right. I have access to PS4 but not yet own. So that have to wait as well.


It seems that I'll better off to wait to see which content I will go first. I think I will end own both worlds, one for PC and one for PS4. For me 'PSVR' & 'Vive vs Oculus'.
 
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