arya's prayer
Neo Member
If it's not 720p and under $150, it's doa. It'll sell worse than the wii u. What decade do people think this is?
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Why it's totally wrong to expect Nintendo's next handheld to have an high res screen.
- Thread starter LeleSocho
- Start date
……forgetit
Member
LOL, now this isn't happening.
……forgetit
Member
idk man, it could last two days but I'd be pissed if they went back to GBA resolution.
All of the games on 3DS & PS Vita run at Sub-HD resolutions & at Subnative resolutions, just that the hardware on PS Vita is a bit more powerful than the hardware inside of the 3DS.
Not with either God of War 3 or Ascension in which they run in Native 720p (& if you count the games inside both of the God of War collections for PS3, save for the cutscenes).
mario_O
Member
It has to be at least 720p. By the time Nintendo releases their next handheld smartphones will have 4K screens. Nintendo is now competing with mobiles, they need a decent screen. Also, having a 720p screen doesnt mean all their games and apps have to run at native 720p. I think it would be a mistake to realese a sub-hd screen in 2016.
……forgetit
Member
I really don't see a screen at higher than 540p happening. Even with the average smartphone being at QHD.
Schnozberry
Member
The cost/benefit of anything above 720p is not good. The cost of the screen, the battery needed for decent life, and the SoC needed to drive that many pixels would price them out of their market almost immediately. Not many mainstream consumers are willing to pay unsubsidized phone prices. They certainly won't do it for a second device.
People don't buy game systems to read text or look at photos, so modern screen resolutions is just a waste for Nintendo and handheld gaming. They buy them to be able to run games, and a lower res screen will be very beneficial at everything else about the handheld that is significantly more important (performance, battery life, price).
I expect the next handheld to have a Vita-like resolution. However, if Nintendo would rather make a tablet, then that's a different story.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
At this point, I think people are just blindly chasing numbers. 4k is overkill, not just for the 3DS, but for phones and to a certain extend, pc monitor and tablet too. I'll rather mobile devices stay at 2k or HD resolution, and devote the cost towards improvement in other areas (until to the point where making 2k mobile screen will cost more than 4k mobile screen)
Even ps4 and xbox one has got games that barely runs at 1080p60. Let's be realistic.
The more I think about it, the more I think this is true. 480p is at least a reasonable step up from the current 240p, it's affordable, and if the next system backwards compatible, it's exactly two times the size for even scaling.
Theanine3D
Member
I don't think I'd buy the successor to the 3DS if it isn't at least 720p. It's 2015 today, assuming the successor will be out a year or two from now, anything less than 720p would be an embarrassment for the hardware guys at Nintendo.
With that said, I don't think they will disappoint. I don't expect the next handheld to have two screens, or 3D. Those two things hindered any chance of a higher resolution on the 3DS, since the game has to render the top screen *twice* and the extra bottom screen on top of that (This is why I always gave the 3DS's low res a free pass, because there's at least a good technical reason behind it). But if the next handheld has one single, non-stereoscopic screen, they could easily hit 720p no?
With that said, I don't think they will disappoint. I don't expect the next handheld to have two screens, or 3D. Those two things hindered any chance of a higher resolution on the 3DS, since the game has to render the top screen *twice* and the extra bottom screen on top of that (This is why I always gave the 3DS's low res a free pass, because there's at least a good technical reason behind it). But if the next handheld has one single, non-stereoscopic screen, they could easily hit 720p no?
Ill be over the moon if its 480p... I keep my expectations low becausr because Nintendo...
345triangle
Member
there is no reason whatsoever why a 720p screen would be impossible this year. these days we have smartphones with 1440p displays that last for several hours of heavy use, and they have design constraints that a nintendo handheld never would.
as for cost, there have been sub-$100 android tablets with 1280 x 800 screens for years. even windows ones these days!
as for cost, there have been sub-$100 android tablets with 1280 x 800 screens for years. even windows ones these days!
I doubt those tablets would even be able to run DS-quality games, they would be stuck to mostly 2D games like Candy Crush.
BRocknRolla
Member
I personally think the screen on something like the Wii U game pad looks mostly like garbage. (Fine for older games that weren't running at a high resolution anyway.)
I think a 720 screen ought to be the bare minimum in this day and age, but I can absolutely see something like 540 being the choice instead. I want more from my mobile experiences at this point. That's all.
I think a 720 screen ought to be the bare minimum in this day and age, but I can absolutely see something like 540 being the choice instead. I want more from my mobile experiences at this point. That's all.
If Nintendo goes for dual screens once more in their next handheld, it'll be impossible for the successor to the 3DS to have a Native 720p resolution.
GameAddict411
Member
I really doubt it's going to be 720p let alone 1080p. Nintendo never released hardware up to date, like ever.
D.Lo
Member
480 would be fantastic. Sub native res games suck.
That said, so many people manage to put up with smeared IQ on phones/vita (and play DS games smeared up to full screen on 3DS) and use those horrific soap opera filters on TV so who knows. Also Samsung got away for years claiming higher resolutions than they truly were by using awful pentile screens with shared sub pixels, so people might only respond to numbers...
That said, so many people manage to put up with smeared IQ on phones/vita (and play DS games smeared up to full screen on 3DS) and use those horrific soap opera filters on TV so who knows. Also Samsung got away for years claiming higher resolutions than they truly were by using awful pentile screens with shared sub pixels, so people might only respond to numbers...
The 3DS would have been pretty up-to-date if it had launched with Tegra as had been planned.
Uh, I'm not aware of any subnative 3DS games? Are there some?
Also, he's talking about GOW Collection Vita running subnative res. Nothing to do with the PS3 games.
SystemUser
Member
I revised my estimate to $100 to manufacture and I did state manufacture. I know there is R&D, but R&D is not added to the per unit manufacturing costs. Nintendo doesn't make most of the parts in the 3DS. You can look up the price of the parts and assume than Nintendo is getting a better price than you can. Nintendo generates revenue by selling hardware and games. Nintendo priced the 3DS too high so they lost money. When Nintendo lowered the price 3DS then Nintendo started to make make a profit by selling hardware and games.
Nintendo was losing money on the 3DS platform until they lowered the price because it wasn't selling. Nintendo has never released a piece of hardware that was priced lower than the manufacturing cost. That is not how Nintendo works. Nintendo execs were too arrogant after the the success of the DS and Wii.
I expect 480. That's 4x the pixels of 3DS, so given Nintendo standards that'd be an exceptional improvement. Plus this gets you better battery life which is usually a strong tenet of Nintendo. And while I enjoy KoTOR at 1080 on my 5.2 inch G2 (3 hours btw), I can understand that there will be graphical sacrifices on 720+ that may not justify the extra PPI on sub 5 inch screens.
Although if they go single screen, I suspect we'll see 540 with a reasonable chance of 720. One 720 screen is only slightly more pixels than 2x 480 screens after all. But Nintendo loves their battery life, so don't get your hopes up.
Although if they go single screen, I suspect we'll see 540 with a reasonable chance of 720. One 720 screen is only slightly more pixels than 2x 480 screens after all. But Nintendo loves their battery life, so don't get your hopes up.
A Nintendo handheld isn't likely going to exceed a 5" screen baring a huge change in direction (3rd pillar anyone?). Already that limits your battery options and also 1080p at that size is just completely unnecessary because you're hitting a huge diminishing return threshold of how many pixels your eyes can resolve versus how many are actually rendered ("retina") which only further hits the battery unnecessarily.
Anyway let's add context:
960x540 = 518400px (25% of 1080p)
960x540:3D = 1036800px (50% of 1080p)
960x540:3D + 720x540 = 1425600px (68.75% of 1080p)
1280x720 = 921600px (44.44% of 1080p)
1280x720:3D = 1843200px (88.88% of 1080p)
1280x720:3D + 960x720 = 2534400px (122.22% of 1080p)
1280x720 + 854x480 = 1331520px (64.21% of 1080p) <- Wii U rendering 720 + full gamepad scene
1920x1080 = 2073600px
2560x1440 = 3686400px
So you can see that if they keep the configuration even a single 540p screen in 3D will push more pixels than a 720p screen. Even more when we add in the bottom screen. That means you need power on the level of Wii U to do just that. This should be possible with the highest-end mobile SoCs today and that seems like a reasonable target for something in late 2016 or slightly later. At 720p in 3D and with the second screen you're actually pushing more pixels than 1080p which is quite a bit of power.
Note that 3D configurations are actually more worthwhile than 1080p at 5" because you're eyes can resolve more visual information (depth) versus how much you actually need to render. So arguments for a single super-high-res screen have no objective grounding. It's spec-porn blinders. Asking for 120FPS or high-contrast as an alternative would be less stupid.
All in all 540p seems like the ideal target here. This also isn't likely to be a 7" tablet in terms of screen size or battery size so you have to actually calibrate your comparisons if you want to make them.
Anyway let's add context:
960x540 = 518400px (25% of 1080p)
960x540:3D = 1036800px (50% of 1080p)
960x540:3D + 720x540 = 1425600px (68.75% of 1080p)
1280x720 = 921600px (44.44% of 1080p)
1280x720:3D = 1843200px (88.88% of 1080p)
1280x720:3D + 960x720 = 2534400px (122.22% of 1080p)
1280x720 + 854x480 = 1331520px (64.21% of 1080p) <- Wii U rendering 720 + full gamepad scene
1920x1080 = 2073600px
2560x1440 = 3686400px
So you can see that if they keep the configuration even a single 540p screen in 3D will push more pixels than a 720p screen. Even more when we add in the bottom screen. That means you need power on the level of Wii U to do just that. This should be possible with the highest-end mobile SoCs today and that seems like a reasonable target for something in late 2016 or slightly later. At 720p in 3D and with the second screen you're actually pushing more pixels than 1080p which is quite a bit of power.
Note that 3D configurations are actually more worthwhile than 1080p at 5" because you're eyes can resolve more visual information (depth) versus how much you actually need to render. So arguments for a single super-high-res screen have no objective grounding. It's spec-porn blinders. Asking for 120FPS or high-contrast as an alternative would be less stupid.
All in all 540p seems like the ideal target here. This also isn't likely to be a 7" tablet in terms of screen size or battery size so you have to actually calibrate your comparisons if you want to make them.
Strange Young Man
Neo Member
An overlooked piece of the puzzle is Nintendo's strategy to deliver software across their home and portable systems. Iwata has made statements suggesting a unified OS which would enable developers to share software between systems, delivering either 'sibling' products (think something like the recent Smash Brothers) or cross platform (more like the Xenoblade Chronicles port).
Surely, with a shared design philosophy and development environment, there'd have to be compromises for this to be viable from a performance point of view on the lower end platform(s). I think the first thing to take a hit would be rendering resolution, which makes sense considering the smaller screen size.
Combined with other practical constraints like cost, battery and form factor I'm expecting something around the 480p mark. Anything less would be disappointing personally, but not completely unexpected. I'm hoping Nintendo go all in with this strategy which would mean the majority of products would be available on their home console, allowing users the choice of the best possible IQ if they are at home.
Surely, with a shared design philosophy and development environment, there'd have to be compromises for this to be viable from a performance point of view on the lower end platform(s). I think the first thing to take a hit would be rendering resolution, which makes sense considering the smaller screen size.
Combined with other practical constraints like cost, battery and form factor I'm expecting something around the 480p mark. Anything less would be disappointing personally, but not completely unexpected. I'm hoping Nintendo go all in with this strategy which would mean the majority of products would be available on their home console, allowing users the choice of the best possible IQ if they are at home.
Dark Ninja
Member
I just want a bigger screen at least the size of the Wii U Gamepad's
Are you kidding?
Was just typing up that I was wishfully hoping Nintendo would switch over to Nvidia for their Tegra X1 for next-gen handheld (would share the same family of architecture with Nvidia's Project Denver ARM CPU+Maxwell or Pascal graphics for the console).
That said, we know AMD is completely confident they have the design win(s) in the bag without spelling it out that it's for Nintendo.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
I think they won't try to have a display that is super high resolution.
That's fine with me. That's great for performance reasons, too, especially when it comes to chips that can easily throttle or get too hot.
So long the display quality is at least at line with the 3DS XL's top display outside of resolution and screen size, I'll be content. (There do exist displays on high-end tablets that do not fare well with staying black under light due to lack of a good AR coating.)
That's fine with me. That's great for performance reasons, too, especially when it comes to chips that can easily throttle or get too hot.
So long the display quality is at least at line with the 3DS XL's top display outside of resolution and screen size, I'll be content. (There do exist displays on high-end tablets that do not fare well with staying black under light due to lack of a good AR coating.)
Cute Dragon Here
Member
It doesn't right now outside of resolution I think, if we're comparing the XL models.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
lol
ITT, we have people who haven't kept up with mobile technology. Asking for a 1080p display in a mobile gaming device expected to ship late 2016 is not far-fetched considering the first phone with a 1080p display came out in 2012. Since 2012 a lot of components in phone have become more energy efficient including the display, SoC, etc.
If Nintendo really wanted to make money off of every device sold they could pull it off with a 720p display with a modest SoC(which would still wreck the 3DS SoC). Don't give me that bullshit about cost, competition in the mobile market has brought cheaper components that Nintendo undoubtedly is benefiting from. I'm still surprised how they got away with selling junk hardware used in 2011.
If Nintendo really wanted to make money off of every device sold they could pull it off with a 720p display with a modest SoC(which would still wreck the 3DS SoC). Don't give me that bullshit about cost, competition in the mobile market has brought cheaper components that Nintendo undoubtedly is benefiting from. I'm still surprised how they got away with selling junk hardware used in 2011.
No it won't, where do people get these ideas from?
Cute Dragon Here
Member
I'd rather have a consistent performance and resolution target. There are still some games that decide to run at half resolution on my 1080p Snapdragon 800 smartphone. And it gets hot. And drains the battery like crazy.
Guess what? The mobile industry is already working on getting consistent, sustained performance from their devices.
Good thing a mobile gaming device doesn't have to be <10 mm thick. As for the resolution of the game, that's up to the developers.
D.Lo
Member
ITT people who don't understand the problem with sub-native rendering and poor game performance and who are happy for awful smeared torn images.
For gods sake the XBOX ONE AND PS4 can't even render games at 1080p all the time. And they don't run on batteries and use more power than Vladimir Putin.
Just because you're happy with your low geometry 480p rendered games scaled up on your '1080p' pentile samsung with piss poor framerates and a shitload of screen tearing doesn't mean it actually looks good. It just means you like a higher number on the box of your device than having actual tuned optimum performance.
For gods sake the XBOX ONE AND PS4 can't even render games at 1080p all the time. And they don't run on batteries and use more power than Vladimir Putin.
Just because you're happy with your low geometry 480p rendered games scaled up on your '1080p' pentile samsung with piss poor framerates and a shitload of screen tearing doesn't mean it actually looks good. It just means you like a higher number on the box of your device than having actual tuned optimum performance.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Guess what? The mobile industry is already working on getting consistent, sustained performance from their devices.
I guess I didn't make it clear - I want my games to be of a similar image quality and performance across most of them. The 3DS fits in this regard, especially considering native resolution.
Also, that still doesn't address how the 3DS never ever gets even remotely warm. Just saying.
ShinMaruku
Member
Let's be honest most of the 720 p people were neve gonna buy the new handheld in the first place.
Ideally I'd like Nintendo to go with something like a phone/ tablet but that's nothing they'd do. I'd expect Sony to do if they want a portable and then corner the gaming market on phones with have decent shit.
Ideally I'd like Nintendo to go with something like a phone/ tablet but that's nothing they'd do. I'd expect Sony to do if they want a portable and then corner the gaming market on phones with have decent shit.
When is the last time you played a mobile game?
Doesn't have to render games at 1080p. Screen doesn't even have to be 1080p, 720p is doable.
"Optimum tuned performanc" lol.
It doesn't get warm because it's using a crap SoC in big chassis. You phone get's hot because the SoC is crammed into a small chassis where the heat isn't dissipating quickly. This becomes a non-issue in a gaming device because it has a larger surface area.
1st Course
Member
I'd say 480p. Maybe even lower.