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[TJ Spyke]

It's a fact that all PS2 owners will move to a PS3 once it hits $199. Doesn't matter if by then X360 & Wii would be at $99-$150. Brand loyalty > price. And, lets not mention added "Value."

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

History proves you wrong.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

It's a fact that all PS2 owners will move to a PS3 once it hits $199. Doesn't matter if by then X360 & Wii would be at $99-$150. Brand loyalty > price. And, lets not mention added "Value."

I can't tell if you're being delusional or facetious. Although, the "Value." makes me think facetious.

If it's delusional, I can't wait for the meltdown.

 

[Night_Trekker]

It's a fact that all PS2 owners will move to a PS3 once it hits $199. Doesn't matter if by then X360 & Wii would be at $99-$150. Brand loyalty > price. And, lets not mention added "Value."

Probably for someone as loopy as you, yeah.

If that was a joke post, well done.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

It's a fact that all PS2 owners will move to a PS3 once it hits $199. Doesn't matter if by then X360 & Wii would be at $99-$150. Brand loyalty > price. And, lets not mention added "Value."

It's a fact that I would move to PS3 from my PS2 if it hits $199.
However, I'm not "all PS2 owners".
You're overvaluing the PlayStation "brand".

 

[Leezard]

I can't tell if you're being delusional or facetious. Although, the "Value." makes me think facetious.

If it's delusional, I can't wait for the meltdown.

He's being facetious.

 

[Night_Trekker]

He's being facetious.

It's scary how damn hard it is to tell now.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

It is amazing that the PS3 hit as many numbers as they did with a $400-$600 price tag. A price drop of $349-$299 could be potentially dangerous considering they reached those numbers being literally double the price. That is, if they do it in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Leezard]

It's scary how damn hard it is to tell now.

A thread full of other delusional people can do that to you. :/

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It is amazing that the PS3 hit as many numbers as they did with a $400-$600 price tag. A price drop of $349-$299 could be potentially dangerous considering they reached those numbers being literally double the price. That is, if they do it in a reasonable amount of time.

Gotta be honest with you; it wouldn't surprise me if the PS3's best year is already behind it, price drop be damned.

 

[sonicmj1]

Facetious ?

No casuals who had a PS2 and then jumped on the Wii bandwagon would consider a $199 PS3?

They'd have to already own an X360 ?

X360 is already at $199 and not attracting that crowd like MS wanted.

Would people who had an N64 and then jumped on the PS2 bandwagon consider a $99 Gamecube?

During the last generation, the vast majority of consumers only possessed a single platform. If the PS3 hits the mass market price point (less than $300) over a year later than its competitors, Sony likely won't find an awful lot of people sitting around waiting for it.

There's a chance it'll have a long enough run to pass the 360, but this seems unlikely to me.

 

[Death Dealer]

Gotta be honest with you; it wouldn't surprise me if the PS3's best year is already behind it, price drop be damned.

Yeah it's the dreamcast reincarnated. So tell me, will Sony make games for the next MS console too?

 

[Death Dealer]

Would people who had an N64 and then jumped on the PS2 bandwagon consider a $99 Gamecube?

Not the same thing. Gamecube didn't offer much over a PS2. While a PS3 does offer a lot over a Wii. (especially 2-3 years from now, what a nice catalog)

There's a chance it'll have a long enough run to pass the 360, but this seems unlikely to me.

Agree. I think if Sony starts building any momentum MS will do the same thing over again. Launch earlier with an attractive price point and try and catch them off guard.

 

[Kolgar]

This thread is going places! :lol

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Yeah it's the dreamcast reincarnated. So tell me, will Sony make games for the next MS console too?

No, just for you.

Sorry if i'm offending you here, btw. Feel free to save my above quote and throw it in my face next year.

Think about it though. The PS3 sold more kit in 2007 with less games and a higher price. I'm not just blowing smoke to piss you off here.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Not the same thing. Gamecube didn't offer much over a PS2. While a PS3 does offer a lot over a Wii. (especially 2-3 years from now, what a nice catalog)

Unfortunately, the 360 has a great catalog right now. Guess where it will be in 2-3 years?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Agree. I think if Sony starts building any momentum MS will do the same thing over again. Launch earlier with an attractive price point and try and catch them off guard.

Yup. It's got to be an alarming development for Sony considering the confluence of forces.

a) MS was "lucky" enough to have the squandering of their one year lead (and it was squandered) made irrelavent by the Wii trouncing them both. If Sony had come out on top this gen (and if it wasn't for the Wii, they certainly could have made a go of it), they would have cut MS off at the knees. They would have maintained their massive brand loyalty, they would have had MS fail again with a home console and any third attempt would most likely be laughed out of the market.
b) Instead of holding tight with MS and countering all their aggressive moves, they got outplayed on several them.

MS can still pull the same trick again next gen and Sony really does not have the resources to cut them off. Wii Lightning could strike twice, this time for Sony next gen, of course. Anything's possible. But it's got to be a rough position to be in.

 

[Death Dealer]

Unfortunately, the 360 has a great catalog right now. Guess where it will be in 2-3 years?

A catalog that must not be appealing to Wii only households, since it's already cheaper than Wii and getting creamed.

I'm just throwing out ideas. PS3 could have a mass market renaissance. It might not, but X360 being even cheaper in the future isn't as much of a factor. $400 to $200 is a bigger deal than $200 to $100.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

A catalog that must not be appealing to Wii only households, since it's already cheaper than Wii and getting creamed.

I'm just throwing out ideas. PS3 could have a mass market renaissance. It might not, but X360 being even cheaper in the future isn't as much of a factor. $400 to $200 is a bigger deal than $200 to $100.

Here's where third party comes in, though. Because there's such price disparity, and potentially a permanent one, let's say something like The Beatles Game is a massive, break out hit. Huge, mass market game. MS has positioned the 360 in a way where they don't even necessarily need to rely on a first party or exclusive smash (even though they've been releasing plenty). They can just wait for something to come out of the blue and add another million to their userbase.

 

[Deku]

A lot of Sony's problems were structural and were bad strategic decisions Sony made.

You guys make it sound like Sony got outplayed this gen. They let themselves down. Nintendo certainly came with a very clear strategy and would probably have been successful to some degree regardless of what Sony did, but Microsoft practically squandered its headstart with RROD and non presence in Japan.

A lot of the momentum the 360 gain,ed software wise, was due directly to the PS3's weakness and panicked publishers trying to earn back their investments ploppng former exclusives on the 360 and expanding multi-plat development of titles that may have been defacto PS3 exclusives had Sony launched strong. It had a lot less to do with the 360 performing well. Even if we ignore Wii, as many people wish to do, relative to PS2, last gen's console leader, the 360 is a much weaker performer.

 

[Maxwell House]

maybe i just don't get it, but why does coming second or third matter really? so what if sony can get marginally ahead of ms in hardware sales if they can't stop bleeding money. Nintendo came third last gen didn't they?

Well it matters in that the PS3 could have a shorter lifespan ala the original XBox.

 

[Night_Trekker]

A catalog that must not be appealing to Wii only households, since it's already cheaper than Wii and getting creamed.

I'm just throwing out ideas. PS3 could have a mass market renaissance. It might not, but X360 being even cheaper in the future isn't as much of a factor. $400 to $200 is a bigger deal than $200 to $100.

Wait, wait... the 360 won't sell to "Wii only households" because they don't want the types of games it has in its catalog.

However, in 2-3 years the PS3 will be overflowing with titles that will appeal to current "Wii only households"? Do you read the nonsense you post?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

A lot of Sony's problems were structural and were bad strategic decisions Sony made.

You guys make it sound like Sony got outplayed this gen. They let themselves down. Nintendo certainly came with a very clear strategy and would probably have been successful to some degree regardless of what Sony did, but Microsoft practically squandered its headstart with RROD and non presence in Japan.

A lot of the momentum the 360 gain, software wise, was due directly to the PS3's weakness and panicked publishers trying to earn back their investments. It has less to do with the 360 performing well. Even if we ignore Wii, as many people wish to do, relative to PS2, last gen's console leader, it's a weak performer.

Like I said, everyone saw it in 2006. The 360 blew their lead entirely that year. It wasn't until Gears swooped in and saved their asses. They are the luckiest dudes around.

 

[scoobs]

i bet the ps3 will still be selling 8 years from now and people won't pay attention to it, just like the ps2 is now... and slowly it will outsell everything (except the Wii)

 

[FLEABttn]

i bet the ps3 will still be selling 8 years from now and people won't pay attention to it, just like the ps2 is now... and slowly it will outsell everything (except the Wii)

Good reasoning.

 

[Death Dealer]

Here's where third party comes in, though. Because there's such price disparity, and potentially a permanent one, let's say something like The Beatles Game is a massive, break out hit. Huge, mass market game. MS has positioned the 360 in a way where they don't even necessarily need to rely on a first party or exclusive smash (even though they've been releasing plenty). They can just wait for something to come out of the blue and add another million to their userbase.

Agree. For the most price conscience consumers, buying a console for that one big game be it Madden or Beatles rhythm game, MS will always have the inherent advantage over Sony.
The HD will be a fixed cost burden on the PS3 its entire life.

 

[Deku]

i bet the ps3 will still be selling 8 years from now and people won't pay attention to it, just like the ps2 is now... and slowly it will outsell everything (except the Wii)

If Sony is still leaning on the PS3 in 8 years for a 'tortoise' strategy, they're fucked.

I can see them doing a revenge of the PS3 type deal by making the PS4 essentially PS3 v2.0 with boosted specs, much like Nintendo did with the GameCube hardware and the Wii, but a fundamentally unchanged PS3 SKU in 8 years = Dead Sony.

 

[Night_Trekker]

If Sony is still leaning on the PS3 in 8 years for a 'tortoise' strategy, they're fucked.

I can see them doing a revenge of the PS3 type deal by making the PS4 essentially PS3 v2.0 with boosted specs, much like Nintendo did with the GameCube hardware and the Wii, but a fundamentally unchanged PS3 SKU in 8 years = Dead Sony.

They have a ten year plan, dude. Get with the program!

 

[Death Dealer]

Sorry if i'm offending you here, btw. Feel free to save my above quote and throw it in my face next year.

Think about it though. The PS3 sold more kit in 2007 with less games and a higher price. I'm not just blowing smoke to piss you off here.

Offended, no. It just seemed like an unrealistic scenario.

Has the official 2008 total came out ? I've read it will be down on the year, but before the market crash, I thought it was doing as well or slightly better than last year ?
Am I wrong ?

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

How well is the ps2 still selling??? I cant believe it is still around right now.

 

[aerts1js]

It's pretty amazing that the ps2 is STILL around and being given plenty of retail space.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Offended, no. It just seemed like an unrealistic scenario.

Has the official 2008 total came out ?
Before the market crash, I thought it was doing as well or slightly better than last year ?
Am I wrong ?

Nov NPD 2007:


PlayStation 2 -- 496,000
PlayStation 3 -- 466,000
PlayStation Portable -- 567,000
Xbox 360 -- 770,000
Wii -- 981,000
Nintendo DS -- 1,530,000

Nov NPD 2008:

* 1. Wii -- 2.04 million
* 2. Nintendo DS -- 1.56 million
* 3. Xbox 360 -- 836,000
* 4. PSP -- 421,000
* 5. PlayStation 3 -- 378,000
* 6. PlayStation 2 -- 206,000


The entire PS3 suite is down YoY. Granted, it's only one month, however I feel it's a trend I feel will continue as more Wiis (and 360s) sell. I mentioned opportunity cost before; the more Wiis and 360s sell, the less PS3s sell (360 isn't immune from this, but this is a PS3 thread) . I have a theory that the PS3 will see diminishing returns in software and hardware from hereon out, due mainly to the increasing success of its competitors.

 

[Forsete]

How well is the ps2 still selling??? I cant believe it is still around right now.

FY08 Q2 it sold 2.5 million, down from 3.28 last year same quarter. So it sold more than PS3 which sat at 2.43 million, up from 1.31 million laster year same quarter.

 

[Death Dealer]

Nov NPD 2007:

What's the 2007 and 2008 ww total look like ?

I know PS3 has taken a big hit in sales the last few months, but I thought it had been doing relatively close or better than its numbers from last year.

 

[Oblivion]

i bet the ps3 will still be selling 8 years from now and people won't pay attention to it, just like the ps2 is now... and slowly it will outsell everything (except the Wii)

Yep, because if there's one thing that people seem to dismiss it's the fact that the PS3 and PS2 situations are EXACTLY the same.

 

[Grecco]

The problem with the arguments of the PS3 apologists is that they hinge on the false assumption that everyone wants a PS3. .

The fact that the supposed playstation fanbase didnt jump en mass to the psp is proof that this is a fallacy. The "ps fan" wont wait till the ps3 is 200 bucks they already jumped on the wii and the 360s bandwagon.

 

[GenericPseudonym]

Like I said, everyone saw it in 2006. The 360 blew their lead entirely that year. It wasn't until Gears swooped in and saved their asses. They are the luckiest dudes around.

I don't know if 2006 was squandered. RROD and no small pricecut in November was bad, but stuff like Oblivion, Dead Rising and GRAW made me feel good about my purchase.

 

[shpankey]

The fact that the supposed playstation fanbase didnt jump en mass to the psp is proof that this is a fallacy. The "ps fan" wont wait till the ps3 is 200 bucks they already jumped on the wii and the 360s bandwagon.

I would agree with this, anecdotaly for sure, but I also think it's probably true overall. Gamer's are gamers, they don't typically wait around that many years when everyone else has moved on.

If you're talking casuals, then that's a different story. But the "ps gamer" has more than likely moved on to one of the three platforms (or multiple ie: Wii60).

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't know if 2006 was squandered. RROD and no small pricecut in November was bad, but stuff like Oblivion, Dead Rising and GRAW made me feel good about my purchase.

Oh, I did too, but they could have done better, I think.

 

[Kolgar]

As Old Snake would say, "the game has changed."

I don't see the market as Wii vs. 360 vs. PS3. I see it as HD gaming or "core" gaming vs. family friendly motion-controlled party fun machine.

Nintendo's broken down the walls to the mass market and cornered, like, EVERYONE, while Microsoft has somehow managed to eat Sony's HD lunch.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

The fact that the supposed playstation fanbase didnt jump en mass to the psp is proof that this is a fallacy. The "ps fan" wont wait till the ps3 is 200 bucks they already jumped on the wii and the 360s bandwagon.

I want a PS3, but for me it's in the same boat as the 360, I'll pick it up when it's $199, and when I can pick up a small handful of the nicer exclusives in the bargain bin. It's really the same for most consoles for me though - I want them all, I'm just old enough that I do need them *now*.

The exceptions being the ones from Nintendo, but even then I wouldn't have paid more than the $250 launch price.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh, I did too, but they could have done better, I think.

Between the launch shortages and pretty stagnant sales in mid 2006 and mid 2007 (and heck, mid 2008) the 360 lost a lot of opportunities. I'm actually interested whether the new price points will help support much better numbers in 2009. Microsoft has done well with their holiday cuts and promotions the past two years, but their midyear sales have not been so hot.

 

[Death Dealer]

I'm actually interested whether the new price points will help support much better numbers in 2009. Microsoft has done well with their holiday cuts and promotions the past two years, but their midyear sales have not been so hot.

Doesn't sound like they're optimistic.

Redmond (WA) - Microsoft may have said that it drowned the PS3 in Black Friday sales (no word about the Wii, of course), but the company sings a different tune as soon as the topic changes to the 2009 time frame.

In an article published by Reuters, Microsoft executive Shane Kim said that the “video game business is on track to grow by 20% this year”, but that result may not be achievable in 2009 and he indicated that Microsoft may be aiming for flat growth next year. "People are not projecting that kind of growth" for 2009, he told Reuters.

"Who knows, maybe flat performance will be considered a remarkable achievement," he added. "It's difficult to predict the future," but noted that the gaming industry held up well well in previous economic downturns.

The article did not say whether this number also referred to video console sales. However, if we quickly look at the U.S. console shipment numbers, it is clear that Kim was not referring to console shipment in the U.S. In fact, until the end of October, Microsoft sold less Xbox 360s than in the same time frame in 2007. NPD estimates that Microsoft sold 2,459,200 consoles between Jan. 1 and Nov. 1 of this year, while the company sold 2,588,900 units in the same time frame last year.


In comparison, Nintendo and Sony are well ahead of their 2007 results – Nintendo with 6,136,600 vs. 3,958,400 Wiis and Sony with 2,440,800 vs. 1,292,700 PS3s. That being said, it seems to be clear that both Nintendo and Sony will beat their 2007 result, while Microsoft may have a tough time duplicating its 2007 sales.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40435/118/

 

[Karma]

Waves of new customers assumes there are many who would buy a PS3 for $200 or $300 that are unwilling to do so now. That's a safe assumption.

Look at the wave the X360 got from its price drop. And it was already cheaper.

What wave for the 360?

Jan-Nov 2007 3,359,332
Jan-Nov 2008 3,295,400

Some of you are assuming the PS3 is not selling more because of price. It may be that more people just perfer the Wii and 360. If that is the case then price will not matter.

 

[Death Dealer]

What wave for the 360?

Jan-Nov 2007 3,359,332
Jan-Nov 2008 3,295,400

I was talking about the Arcade price drop in Sept.

Some of you are assuming the PS3 is not selling more because of price. It may be that more people just perfer the Wii and 360. If that is the case then price will not matter.

It's selling fairly closely with X360 despite an entry fee double in price. It's simple economics it would sell more relative to X360 if it was priced closer. I really don't buy into the whole Sony stigma this generation. That's fanboy stuff. People on the street aren't catching every PR gaff, all they know is PS3 started out costing a shit load of money and is still expensive compared to the others. X360 and PS3 are like commodities. Similar graphics, similar games, most people will buy what's cheaper.

 

[Karma]

I was talking about the Arcade price drop in Sept.



It's selling fairly closely with X360 despite an entry fee double in price. It's simple economics it would sell more relative to X360 if it was priced closer. I really don't buy into the whole Sony stigma this generation. That's fanboy stuff. People on the street aren't catching every PR gaff, all they know is PS3 started out costing a shit load of money and is still expensive compared to the others. X360 and PS3 are like commodities. Similar graphics, similar games, most people will buy what's cheaper.

People will buy what their friends, family and co-workers already have.

 

[Private Hoffman]

No, just for you.

Sorry if i'm offending you here, btw. Feel free to save my above quote and throw it in my face next year.

Think about it though. The PS3 sold more kit in 2007 with less games and a higher price. I'm not just blowing smoke to piss you off here.

Nov NPD 2007:


PlayStation 2 -- 496,000
PlayStation 3 -- 466,000
PlayStation Portable -- 567,000
Xbox 360 -- 770,000
Wii -- 981,000
Nintendo DS -- 1,530,000

Nov NPD 2008:

* 1. Wii -- 2.04 million
* 2. Nintendo DS -- 1.56 million
* 3. Xbox 360 -- 836,000
* 4. PSP -- 421,000
* 5. PlayStation 3 -- 378,000
* 6. PlayStation 2 -- 206,000


The entire PS3 suite is down YoY. Granted, it's only one month, however I feel it's a trend I feel will continue as more Wiis (and 360s) sell. I mentioned opportunity cost before; the more Wiis and 360s sell, the less PS3s sell (360 isn't immune from this, but this is a PS3 thread) . I have a theory that the PS3 will see diminishing returns in software and hardware from hereon out, due mainly to the increasing success of its competitors.

So being down for 1 month means that it's down for the year? That's some spurious reasoning. Secondly, what higher price? The month you're comparing it to in 2007 received a significant price drop (which can tend to be front loaded, sales wise), while this year there was no price drop to induce slightly inflated sales for the month. The price in November 2007 was exactly the same as it is in November 2008. The competition also got substantially cheaper.

The fact remains that the PS3 has had substantially greater sales (in NA, at least) for 2008 as a whole and will most definitely be ahead of PS3's 2007 sales by a significant margin. There were months in 2007 where the PS3 sold 70-80k, meanwhile the PS3 maintained 200+k in those same months for 2008.

To say that the PS3's best years are behind them is hilarious, and you will most definitely be proven wrong in 2009 so long as Sony drops the price.

 

[FrankT]

I was wondering when you would show up. That last part is golden especially with what we have been back and forth on since mid 08.

They need either two price drops next year or one big one. $50 in April and $50 October or $100 in April. The best scenario is probably the former for them, but who knows if Sony will actually able to afford a full $100 next year. That is also to say that MS will not be able to pull some magic tricks next year either. They could possibly pull a $179 Arcade by the fall and a $250 premium.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

To say that the PS3's best years are behind them is hilarious, and you will most definitely be proven wrong in 2009 so long as Sony drops the price.

So, then you're not so sure about them doing better next year then?

 

[Cipherr]

It's a fact that all PS2 owners will move to a PS3 once it hits $199. Doesn't matter if by then X360 & Wii would be at $99-$150. Brand loyalty > price. And, lets not mention added "Value."

Fuck... :lol Jesus Christ so ridiculous. This is the mindset of a diehard fanboy. You can NOT reason with that. Dont even try.

 

[Death Dealer]

So, then you're not so sure about them doing better next year then?

Do you really think the PS3 won't get a price drop next year ?