ThoughtsOfSpeaking
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Xbox One beats PS4 on Black Friday, according to market-research firm
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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DAREALGUMMY
Member
I don't own a PS4 or a XB1 and I've never owned a Sony console. I just found it interesting.
Here's their chart from last year and we know how that turned out.
Xbox One outsold PS4 in December?
Black Friday didn't have much weight for the PS4/XB1 back then as it does this year. I'm positive the majority of sales for the PS4 and XB1 in November 2013 came before Black Friday of that year.
it's about different things to different companies. for microsoft, the xbox division is in a weird spot where yeah, after a decade, it would be good if it was actually posting profit year after year. on the other hand, they can still grow the brand and transition it into something else that could be profitable in ten years time as something else (say a games service or something). microsoft has the cash that can make it happen.
Nightengale
Member
Because if we subscribe purely to the assumption that these deals will push the edge equal or on par with how Destiny pushed PS4, that falls us to the Pachter trap.
Because the reality is that ever since June/July, if we look 'purely' at value and deals, XB1 has been better than PS4 for a long time now. Forza was bundled at 399, Madden bundle at some retailers had a $50 GC, Destiny launch week had a Free Game Promotion... October's timeframe had Forza Horizon 2/Sunset Overdrive...
All of the above didfuckingnothing.jpg to push XB1 anywhere close to the sales of PS4. Imagine if MS didn't have that week-long Free Game Promo. The gap might had been 400k, for all we know.
In other words, from the sales figures, it's easy to come to this conclusion that good deals alone do not close the sales gap between PS4 and XB1.
If we take that logic to its peak, then even a CRAZY AMAZING DEAL might not be that big of a factor in pushing sales over PS4.
Eg. Something that would had given PS4 a 300k lead over XB1 might only give XB1 a 100k lead.
It's not that I think you guys have a low probability of being right, it's just that we're really grasping at fumes to get a clear picture here. So I have to grab onto some data, and to me the deals were sufficiently insane enough to at least give XBO a gap equally as good as the one PS4 had in September for Destiny.
I really think we genuinely all might be lowballing just how effective Microsoft was in the cutthroat hardcore hardball they were playing in November. They quite clearly had the initiative to win November at all costs.
I really think we genuinely all might be lowballing just how effective Microsoft was in the cutthroat hardcore hardball they were playing in November. They quite clearly had the initiative to win November at all costs.
True.
I would still say that it depends on the margin of victory for the XBO. If XBO beats the PS4 by 100k units, was the steep discount and free games really worth it? In contrast if it's by 500k, then I'd say it was a solid gamble. Either way, it is also a gamble for that newly gained market share to return the investment...if ever. Tough spot to be in.
Nightengale
Member
I think it's just a case of different data interpretation.
My interpretation of the data tells me that 'good deals' has not been remotely sufficient for XB1 to close any sort of gap between PS4 and XB1, even at price-parity. OTOH, an 'okay deal' (Destiny bundle) commanded a 300+k sales gap.
So, even though XB1's deals for Nov/Dec/BF are insane compared to anything we've seen in a long, long time, I'm tempering that insane deal with the fact that it's an XB1 deal, and that something 'insanely great' by conventional standards is only 'pretty good' when pitting it against PS4.
It's similar to how basically any WiiU console deal, no matter how great it is (Smash+Mario bundle) is effectively useless against the PS4 or XB1.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
My only misgiving with calling a gap as big as you suggest as it is pretty clear that despite a lack of pricedrop, the PS4 was still selling and selling well.
If we were getting reports of a total reversal of fortunes like may/june/july/august) this year then id understand where you were coming from.
What you are suggesting is not only did the Xbox do fantastically well, but the PS4 did badly in comparison. Im not seeing that. Looks like to me the PS4 has been trucking along quite nicely and had a decent hoilday bump, just not of the level of the xboxes.
The thing that seems to be forgotten when comparing to September was that the PS4 was already commanding a healthly (50-100k IIRC) sales lead each month. The increase is going to be less pronunced for that reason alone.
jim-jam bongs
Member
WiiU over ps3 is the real news here
I just wonder how much investors are willing to lose, before seeing returns. I honestly think they're focusing on the Xbox brand as a whole, then just Xbox as a game console. Which raises other questions for the future of Xbox.
Also, if XBO loses the holidays to the PS4...what else is there for Xbox to grab onto? It's a sinking ship at that point. Would it accelerate agenda for the release and development of Xbox Two (or whatever)? Would Sony like that seeing that they easily have the upper hand in this gen? Questions, questions.
Sony won. Price drop helped but I don't think it was enough. That's what I think anyway.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I know I definitely jumped on one of the XBone bundles, but then I've had a PS4 for a year and a WiiU for 6 months.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
That's what I want to think too, but they were selling the X1 for near 50% off. That's insane to me.
I'm more worried what happens when corporate flips then switch and demands money to be made. Do they re-apply their anti-consumer BS to bleed those stones?
They have the money to basically give these things away and buy out all competition. But what happens when shareholders demand a profit be returned?
i struggle to see microsoft doing another traditional video game generation. sony might, but i think microsoft will just try and change the name of the game first and foremost, offering a sort of reverse steambox solution, where you can buy their system to download games on (along with a controller), in case your computer or whatever isn't strong enough to run the software. but maybe xbox will become some sort of brand to push with windows after this gen. microsoft already tried shaking up the status quo this gen and botched it horribly, while sony has been 'making all the right moves' by effectively not changing anything too much either way.
just my assumption moving forward.
however if the xbox portion of the industry falls, i don't think it's good news for sony, or traditional gamers. i think it would be a signal that people are losing interest in the traditional market. in fact, i think they already are. i think going forward without microsoft, or at least a weakened microsoft, the industry wouldn't resemble the ps2 market, but the 3ds/vita market. despite initially not caring much about the vita as a platform, i had hoped it would perform well as it would signal a healthy handheld industry.
RustyNails
Member
Congrats to MS if true.
I know theres a usual back and forth on the numbers and their sources, but trust me Sony needs MS right on its ass or vice versa. The moment these Sony or MS get complacent is the moment it will become a dark age for 'core gamers'. Competition will push newer price points, better games and more risks (unless if you're nintendo that is, where you pretend there is no such thing as competition).
I know theres a usual back and forth on the numbers and their sources, but trust me Sony needs MS right on its ass or vice versa. The moment these Sony or MS get complacent is the moment it will become a dark age for 'core gamers'. Competition will push newer price points, better games and more risks (unless if you're nintendo that is, where you pretend there is no such thing as competition).
EmmaWatsonButt
Member
EmmaWatsonButt proves even Emma Watson's butt farts. >
Those farts will smell ever so sweet in a few weeks
and Statham too!
Did no one live through the PS2 era?
i don't think sony would become powerhungry jerks overnight. i think the more immediate concern would be there not being a fanbase big enough to support the enormous cost of the super expensive games the industry has come to rely on. the sony/ms side of the market has effectively become one platform for many developers, and it's been that way since about 2007 or 2008.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
More risk? How so?
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Think hondas sold more then bugattis so hondas son honda has won.
I would imagine MS "won" in terms of units sold, but I shudder to think just how much they've lost selling for peanuts...Sony to a lesser extent. Though we won't know I think the gap between the two will be around 150-200k, and I think Sony would happily accept that. The desperation I sense from MS astounds me on so many levels. I also await AG's cringeworthy tweets. December I imagine the PS4 will reclaim but with an even smaller margin. Jan onwards I think it will be back to reality for MS unless they do something with the price on a permanent basis.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I'll put it this way; with that and you thinking there'll be a 350/400k gap in favor of XBO next month, just keep this in mind: PS4, the one of the pair that's trended w/ traditional market leaders since its release, has yet to have a month where it had a 2:1 advantage over XBO except October.
And that was w/ a system that was $100 cheaper (until MS removed the Kinect, of course).
Why would the system that had its momentum drop like a stone rock after launch, and maintain that for most of the year, suddenly manage to get a 350/400k lead on its chief competitor, with just a $50 cheaper price point?
I'm just not seeing it.
I don't think it'll retract that badly...but I can see it retracting closer to where it was w/ PS1/N64/Saturn, certainly. Somewhere btwn that and the 6th gen.
I also don't want to see MS exit the market, FWIW.
I mean 3DS is still doing decently but the Vita's been on life support almost since launch everywhere that isn't Japan, and 3DS doesn't do nearly well enough to cover for that.
Still cannot believe he meltdown over a PS4 Ebay deal. That was a first for me.
Megatron
Member
Nah, new egg sold ps4's for $330 on eBay. That was the best price.
soulassssns
Banned
and the fan-boys go nuts.
Seriously why care unless you own stock in one or the other of course?
Seriously why care unless you own stock in one or the other of course?
Well, MS can always say that Xbox One has been the biggest current gen console since day one.
It might well be that Spencer has struck a deal to be allowed to spend all the money he wants until the end of the year, but then he has to come up with a pretty damn convincing business case for the next couple of years. MS has written off some special expenses in the past (yes, RROD, I am talking about you), so screwing up one more Christmas would not really change that much. But you can't make a console business work if you not only subsidize the console but also throw in the games and services for free.
Megatron
Member
At this point, that would be surprising. We know Microsoft won the first two weeks of November. If this survey is true, and they also won bf, it's hard to believe Sony could have won.
Everybody should care. Did you notice how much better for gamers Microsoft got when Sony kicked their ass last year? And how much better sony got when the 360 had the big early lead on ps3? More competition means the game companies have to compete for our business which directly benefits us. I don't care who wins this console gen, I just would love to see it get closer.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Lol, statham is one of the biggest xbox fanboys around these parts. Surprised he stayed so composed for so long.
not really. the ps4 is more closely related to last gen's second place console. that system's second and third novembers were around 500k and 750k respectively. it's not a stretch that if the microsoft was outperforming the ps4's perfectly fine sales on a weekly basis of about 2:1 that it would have built up a lead of about 100k or so before black friday even started. the xb1 with a 200k-300k gap over the ps4, where the xb1 is around wii/ps2-levels of second novembers (around 918k), isn't too hard to picture to be honest.
He is currently banned. He lost his shit over the newegg $329 ps4 deal.
Link?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Market saturation shouldn't be a factor for either console for years.
Saturation among very specific subsets of the market is possible.
Because it's not "just a $50 cheaper price point" from where I'm standing.
Right now we're talking about a system that is selling for $329 in a huge amount of places with two games, and sometimes extra bonus deals like gift cards depending on what you're looking at. I mean Microsoft store that shit with another free game on top, it just no limit to how low they're willing to go this month.
PS4 for the most part - with ebay exception - has been $399, with TLOU and GTAV. Which isn't a bad deal and I think Sony was right keeping it at that price given their financial situation and the fact the PS4 was already selling quite decently.
So we're actually talking a $70 difference really at minimum, and stores are still throwing the kitchen sink in with it during Black Friday week. When you start adding in the way so many stores are incentivizing the Black Friday Xbox purchase - what a doorbuster really should mean - you're talking gaps that can range from $70-$130.
Couple that with a more compelling AAA exclusive lineup on average for the Holiday season, and I think they definitely have what it takes to match Sony's gap in September
We shall see.
the 3ds doesn't even do well enough to cover the loss of the psp market.
i don't think the market will retract as badly as that this gen either. i'm thinking that for next it might though, because there doesn't seem to be anything driving growth in this sector. all i'm seeing is contraction wherever there's a shift, whether it's japan, the handheld market, or the casual gaming market on traditional platforms.
Nightengale
Member
I think Statham's alright. He's unapologetically a fanboy, but aside from some occasional quips and jabs at Sony, he's more a fanboy than a warrior.
However, him coming over to the Ebay thread, and basically 'melting down' over the drop and being all bothered and rustled that MS was apparently 'called names' for doing something that (it wasn't even Sony) that did it was really poor form.
He's a cool dude most of the time though. Way better than Hindle.
i honestly think next gen will still be fine, because wait until people try Oculus Rift/Morpheus and probably Fortaleza. I was a doubter, I hate almost all 3D, and I was king skeptic.
After playing it?
If they get it at a consumer friendly price - $399.99 - it will explode at market. Hell, it's so remarkable I'm almost willing to say they could even come in at $499.99. There's no way to articulate just how amazing it is without experiencing it. I walked away with a weird giddy smile on my face thinking 'holy fuck what did I just play', and feeling dizzy and my mind racing with the possibilities. It was some next tier shit.
So I think next-gen is actually prime for a bit of a renaissance of sort, if these VR companies play their card right with price/marketing. They're going to need some very clever marketing techniques to convey precisely how astonishing the Oculus/Morpheus experience is, but if they do it right... I'm tellin' you, man. Sky's the limit.
justsomeguy
Member
I own Microsoft stock and *I* don't care as much as many people in this thread!
BMO = GOAT
Member
I missed this, one of you don't mind directing me to it. He usually stays composed and what not, im ver surprised.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I'm rooting for the Xbox only because the deals were great and made it feel like Black Friday. The PS4 bundles at MSRP were crap for a black friday deal imo. They deserve to get beat for it so that next year maybe BF will feel more like BF.
Also if the PS4 still beats the Xbox...there's just no way imo for it to ever win. The price was right Bob. There isn't really anything else MS could possibly do aside from give the damn thing away.
Also if the PS4 still beats the Xbox...there's just no way imo for it to ever win. The price was right Bob. There isn't really anything else MS could possibly do aside from give the damn thing away.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I don't expect MS to take November by more than 50,000 units.
Over 100k and the blow ups are going to be nuts. If it actually sells 300k-400k more than PS4? MS not only had a damn good month, but also bucked early trends we've seen so far this generation.
In particular it would show that price really was a factor in the platforms first year sales. When price drops have made very little difference through most of the year. In essence they must have a lower price to maintain any edge over Sony, no matter how marginal it may be.
Over 100k and the blow ups are going to be nuts. If it actually sells 300k-400k more than PS4? MS not only had a damn good month, but also bucked early trends we've seen so far this generation.
In particular it would show that price really was a factor in the platforms first year sales. When price drops have made very little difference through most of the year. In essence they must have a lower price to maintain any edge over Sony, no matter how marginal it may be.
Because of the thread you are in.
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