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Yu Suzuki's gamelab presentation has a slide with a '3' on it. You know what to do.

S

Sectorseven

Member
Nightengale said:
How much will it cost? 20 million?

In all honesty, I'd say Kickstarter is the probably the least of the problem. Convincing SEGA to forfeit the opportunity cost of developing Game X as opposed to Shenmue 3 will probably be the bigger hurdle. ( though contracting out development to an external studio is a viable option, but on that front... how many developers in Japan can do an open-world game justice? )
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I doubt Sega will have any involvement beyond stamping their name on it.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
border said:
What current low budget or mid-budget games are there that currently accomplish what Shenmue attempted?

Gone Home jumps to mind, but that's just a single house with no NPCs. Attempting to scale towards a huge interactive city full of unique locales requires tons of voiceovers, animations, unique models, etc, etc.
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It's a relatively poor comparison... but Sen no Kiseki.

The game is clearly profitable even though it doesn't even sell >250k units in Japan, but if we scale the amount of content in the game, there's a lot of stuff in terms of unique NPCs, huge city, etc. ( Granted, no voice-over, animations aren't great and graphics are lackluster)

But from a different perspective, I'd say Sen doesn't lose out to Shenmue in terms of 'content' per say. Both are games with different development objectives and outcomes, but large ambitious games can still be achieved with a modest budget assuming that no one expects the game to look better than an early-gen PS3 game.

border said:
Sony refused to fund Amplitude - hence the Kickstarter. I'm not sure why they would put money behind an IP they don't even own.
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Not to mention funding Shenmue is nothing more than funding a 'dead-end' game. At least with games like Bayonetta, one could potentially see Bayonetta 3,4,5 continue on WiiU or next-gen Nintendo platforms as the establishing of a long-term franchise.

Funding Shenmue 3 at this stage is nothing more than satisfying Suzuki's desire to see the game story closed. It's a poor business decision, no two ways about it.
 
S

Sectorseven

Member
What I'm wondering is how much Sega would value the brand at. It's not like it has been making them money in recent years.
Nightengale said:
Not to mention funding Shenmue is nothing more than funding a 'dead-end' game. At least with games like Bayonetta, one could potentially see Bayonetta 3,4,5 continue on WiiU or next-gen Nintendo platforms as the establishing of a long-term franchise.

Funding Shenmue 3 at this stage is nothing more than satisfying Suzuki's desire to see the game story closed. It's a poor business decision, no two ways about it.
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But that's assuming part 3 is going to wrap everything up. There's certainly precedent for success with chapter models like Walking Dead or even Alan Wake.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Sectorseven said:
I doubt Sega will have any involvement beyond stamping their name on it.
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Which makes me even more doubtful.

Who 'in Japan' right now, as an external developer, have the competencies to make Shenmue for the current-gen? How many developers have the engine, the resources and the experience to build a highly dynamic open-world game there?

At least with SEGA internal teams, Team Yakuza has the ability to do it. And I'm sure Nintendo EAD/SPD and even Japan Studio could manage it if they tried, with their wealth of talent + tech sharing from other WWS divisions.

But Japan's independent developer crop right now?

(Sure, western devs are an option, but I'm thinking that's a low probability given that Yuzuki has never worked with a western team, and he's not that well-versed in Eng)

Sectorseven said:
But that's assuming part 3 is going to wrap everything up. There's certainly precedent for success with chapter models like Walking Dead or even Alan Wake.
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Well, chapter models is a possibility, but what I'm saying is that I don't believe for a second that any potential publishers for Shenmue will think of it being anymore more than a sunk cost with little to no chance of profitability, and that any money going into Shenmue as a franchise will be only to close the story, and nothing more.

If SEGA is willing to forfeit the IP, then at least 'publisher X' can use that brand for their own open-world experience, but at this stage, it's clear SEGA is still holding on to it and that everything in at their whim.
 
S

Sectorseven

Member
Nightengale said:
Which makes me even more doubtful.

Who 'in Japan' right now, as an external developer, have the competencies to make Shenmue for the current-gen? How many developers have the engine, the resources and the experience to build a highly dynamic open-world game there?

At least with SEGA internal teams, Team Yakuza has the ability to do it. And I'm sure Nintendo EAD/SPD and even Japan Studio could manage it if they tried, with their wealth of talent + tech sharing from other WWS divisions.

But Japan's independent developer crop right now?

(Sure, western devs are an option, but I'm thinking that's a low probability given that Yuzuki has never worked with a western team, and he's not that well-versed in Eng)
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I'm not very familiar with Japanese developers either, but the first game was made by a team only known for arcade games in an era where open world games didn't really even exist. I think the hardest challenge for a western developer would be capturing the Japanese culture, which is integral.

The tech seems like less of a problem to me. There are lots of feature rich game engines available for license now, and they've got so many things built in right from the start that Shenmue had to pioneer.
 
B

border

Member
What does a "modern" Shenmue even look like? It always struck me that the series was headed for pacing problems. With every subsequent game or chapter, is Ryo just going to move to a new city, take on some dull/mundane job, explore irrelevant sidequests, and interact with NPCs that have nothing to do with his quest for revenge/redemption?
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Sectorseven said:
I'm not very familiar with Japanese developers either, but the first game was made by a team only known for arcade games in an era where open world games didn't really even exist. I think the hardest challenge for a western developer would be capturing the Japanese culture, which is integral.

The tech seems like less of a problem to me. There are lots of feature rich game engines available for license now, and they've got so many things built in right from the start that Shenmue had to pioneer.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it can't be done ( thus me quoting EAD/SPD/Japan Studio even though they never made open-world games before), but if Shenmue 3 happens, chances are they're going in extremely focused with a clear product objective and all the fundamentals in place... as opposed to letting devs figure out how to make genre X. They're not going to go to tri-Ace and say "I know you never made games like this before, but I'll give you to money to make it anyway!"

And I agree tech is less an issue now. Doesn't make the game any less cheap though.
 
C

Coxy

Member
Nightengale said:
In all honesty, I'd say Kickstarter is the probably the least of the problem. Convincing SEGA to forfeit the opportunity cost of developing Game X as opposed to Shenmue 3 will probably be the bigger hurdle.
Click to expand...

Sega are barely even making games anymore, their top teams are contracted out to help on super low rent games like Dengeki Bunko.

The former shenmue developers are being used as the B Team for 3ds hatsune miku spinoffs and piddling crap like DS ports of Dynasty Warriors games and puyo puyo tetris

Opportunity cost isnt an issue when there's no opportunities within sega anyway
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Coxy said:
Sega are barely even making games anymore, their top teams are contracted out to help on super low rent games like Dengeki Bunko.

The former shenmue developers are being used as the B Team for 3ds hatsune miku spinoffs and piddling crap like DS ports of Dynasty Warriors games and puyo puyo tetris

Opportunity cost isnt an issue when there's no opportunities within sega anyway
Click to expand...

Whatever they're 'barely making' is still going to be more profitable than Shenmue 3.
 
F

freshVeggie

Member
A series many years on hiatus, getting a sequel without ports of the originals doesn't make much sense.
Majority of possible customers haven't got the chance to play sequels in this story-heavy series.
A port for shenmue 1+2 is likely I think.
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
nssdigitalchumps said:
Sega West had no real power. Sega West was an extension of Sega East, which meant it was an arm attached to a body that controlled it.

I do understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it.
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that's fair enough. everybody responsible is long gone from sega at this point anyway.

border said:
What current low budget or mid-budget games are there that currently accomplish what Shenmue attempted?
Click to expand...
none, because shenmue really was a genre unto itself and nothing has quite done the same mix of mechanics since.

however, a lot of shenmue's cost came from developing the AI, the weather system, the time system, using motion capture, etc, all of which can be done quickly and cheaply now. as for asset creation like npc models, outsourcing the work is a good way to keep the cost down. voice acting is the real expense, but even then you're not looking at dramatically high amounts of money.

Nightengale said:
Whatever they're 'barely making' is still going to be more profitable than Shenmue 3.
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depends on how much money they'd actually sink into the project, but i'm sure if expectations were kept in check it could make a profit, especially seeing how shenmue's status as a cult game has snowballed since the early 2000s. there are people even in 2014 picking up shenmue for the first time and enjoying it. the only problem is that sega refuses to open themselves up to any financial risk at all these days.
 
J

Jinko

Member
Ya know, I previously said I wouldn't want Shenmue III on mobile but it would probably make the most sense.

Sazuki could raise money through kickstarter quite easily to make a mobile game, whats more they could reuse the models as most mobiles can reproduce DC graphics quite easily now.

It would probably have to play a fair bit differently but all I care about is them finishing the story at this point.

Hell they could even release the chapters as episodic content.
 
J

Jacobi

Banned
Jinko said:
Ya know, I previously said I wouldn't want Shenmue III on mobile but it would probably make the most sense.

Sazuki could raise money through kickstarter quite easily to make a mobile game, whats more they could reuse the models as most mobiles can reproduce DC graphics quite easily now.
Click to expand...

Well, they could only reuse the main characters which is like 5 people or so? Because I think the story moves on to another place in China where you have nothing as a reference in SM1+2... (they could reuse the HK people for that, but I think that's not really accurate)
 
S

Shion

Member
Nightengale said:
Who 'in Japan' right now, as an external developer, have the competencies to make Shenmue for the current-gen? How many developers have the engine, the resources and the experience to build a highly dynamic open-world game there?
Click to expand...
It doesn't need to be developed in Japan.
 
J

Jinko

Member
Nightengale said:
I mentioned why I think western developers are an unlikely candidate.
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Indeed, I can only image the mess a western developer would make.

A Chinese developer could probably bring some authenticity to 3 seeing as it's based in China, I'm sure if Suzuki oversaw the project it would turn out good :p
 
S

Shion

Member
Nightengale said:
I mentioned why I think western developers are an unlikely candidate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you make a valid point.

But think that, in this day and age, you can easily get past these problems.

Stuff like Unity and the asset-store would also help the development of the game.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Shenmue 3 better happen or else

giphy.gif
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Shion said:
Yeah, you make a valid point.

But think that, in this day and age, you can easily get past these problems.

Stuff like Unity and the asset-store would also help the development of the game.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking really so much about technological underpinnings, but rather the game development leadership & teamwork perspective.

1. How many of the original Shenmue project leads/those who grasped Suzuki's vision will be available to work on Shenmue 3?

2. How comfortable would Suzuki be, working with an entirely foreign development team with different development cultures and entirely different mother tongue?

3. What kind of involvement does Suzuki expect to be with that game? Does he want to be basically the director, designer, creative, etc, or a more hands-off supervision/overall director role, underpinned by just some design decisions already defined beforehand?

I see those as bigger challenges.
 
C

Coxy

Member
Nightengale said:
Whatever they're 'barely making' is still going to be more profitable than Shenmue 3.
Click to expand...

you have no foundation to make that claim since you have no idea how much investment they could get from a third party, nor how much they could raise from crowdfunding, nor how much it would cost, nor how much it would sell.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Coxy said:
you have no foundation to make that claim since you have no idea how much investment they could get from a third party, nor how much they could raise from crowdfunding, nor how much it would cost, nor how much it would sell.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I was wrong to make a definitive statement.
 
A

AmyS

Member
weird said:
Uh, Babel! I got the reference! WHOOOOHOO!
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Yeah.

May 1998 - Dreamcast Tower of Babel tech demo made by Yu Suzuki in very short order (like 2 weeks or less IIRC) http://youtu.be/f9b3mcX_cdM

It's an extremely terrible video though. Demo was shown in Tokyo and also I think at E3 which was in Atlanta, GA., that year.

A discovered file from some GD-ROM that was only recently working on Dreamcast emus. The full tech demo http://youtu.be/P4fAbTrhvto great quality but no audio.

No doubt though, it looked best on real hardware in '98.

Related thread on Assembler: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?50160-Found-Dreamcast-Tower-of-Babel-Demo
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
So if you Shenmue guys FINALLY get Shenmue 3

Can we get you all to support Skies Of Arcadia rerelease? All this Shenmue talk has overshadowed everything else that Sega has been sitting on for years
 
L

LelouchViBritannia

Member
C

CaVaYeRo

Member
You're very welcome. And I'm in for that Skies of Arcadia support!

Some bits might be lost in translation, but Suzuki-san translator was so nice she tried in English despite officially being a JP-Spanish translator. Lovely lady.
 
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