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[Cbajd5]

Don't be obtuse. Brand recognition from mobile will help other products in the franchise.

I don't really believe so, because they haven't bothered to release other products in the franchise. If they wanted that benefit in the west, shouldn't they have been releasing those products in a much timelier manner? Or at the very least not have the first of the possible non-mobile associations not be an entirely different kind of game? The awareness brought by the mobile releases is gonna be gone by the time they release another traditional DQ game or warped by Heroes.

 

[QaaQer]

Overall yes, but 3DS is still moving competitive amounts of software versus previous successful platforms. For example DS in 2009 (the year DQIX released) was ~27m, and PSP maxxed out at ~16m in 2010 (the year MHP3rd released). The issue is more that everything else is a relative failure (Vita, Wii U, PS4, One, even PS3 really), 3DS is holding up it's end but the rest of the market has utterly collapsed.

not ww. It is in severe contraction.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I don't really believe so, because they haven't bothered to release other products in the franchise. If they wanted that benefit in the west, shouldn't they have been releasing those products in a much timelier manner? Or at the very least not have the first of the possible non-mobile associations not be an entirely different kind of game? The awareness brought by the mobile releases is gonna be gone by the time they release another traditional DQ game or warped by Heroes.

I think they are announcing VII and VIII on the 3DS pretty soon. I also wouldnt be surprised if they remaster at least 1 of the games on PS4.

 

[sörine]

not ww. It is in severe contraction.

I was rather clearly talking Japan when you first replied to me. Let me know when you're finally ready to plant those goalposts.

 

[Cbajd5]

I think they are announcing VII and VIII on the 3DS pretty soon. I also wouldnt be surprised if they remaster at least 1 of the games on PS4.

That's what I hope for (and/or a DQX western release) but am not optimistic about.

 

[Ray Down]

I think they are announcing VII and VIII on the 3DS pretty soon. I also wouldnt be surprised if they remaster at least 1 of the games on PS4.

DQ V HD

believe.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I was rather clearly talking Japan when you first replied to me. Let me know when you're finally ready to plant those goalposts.

Those numbers aren't right, the DS actually sold about 21m games in Japan as of march 2015.

 

[Verendus]

More pointless than Dragon Quest Heroes? A game which undersold DQX?

It's a different business model. The fact that it's an online title is significant, and I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest X on Wii U hasn't sold more than DQH, unless there's been some dramatic Rocky like rise no one ever saw coming. Has it even sold more than 200,000 units yet?

And even if it hasn't, it wouldn't matter. They have a few hundred thousand subscribers across a few different platforms for that title, and that's much more important.

No, the bolded really is the main thing.

If you want to insinuate that I'm a Nintendo fanboy (which is how many of those Vita threads circa 2012 and 2013 went, hmm), just come out and say so rather than making vague implications about what my agenda is. But I think you'll find I'm a pretty shitty one, given that I think they'd be better off going third party than bothering with NX.

Wait, so you're saying I was a dick by comparing me to fans of Vita and the Wii U a couple years ago who believed in some turnaround? That doesn't even make sense. What in the name of JESUS? Maybe some of them were very polite, and believed such things without stepping on anyone's toes.

Hate us cause you ain't us.

Jabroni.

 

[theprodigy]

If the platform is PS4, there will be very little salt. At this point, it's kind of expected.

The salt will come if it's announced for something like Wii U or NX.

dude have you seen this thread

Verendus took it and dumped it in the Dead Sea

 

[OrbitalBeard]

dude have you seen this thread

Verendus took it and dumped it in the Dead Sea

Well sure, there will be some salt, but the majority of GAF will be completely fine with a PS4 announcement.

 

[QaaQer]

I was rather clearly talking Japan when you first replied to me. Let me know when you're finally ready to plant those goalposts.

Sorry, yeah total hh/home dedicated sales in jpn on downward spiral, 3ds is amazeballs. Ww, dedicated game sales stable overall; hhs still tanking tho, including 3ds. I think that covers it.

 

[Elfstruck]

More pointless than Dragon Quest Heroes? A game which undersold DQX?
.

LOL you comparing online game vs offline game, beside they are two completely different games.

 

[Deadstarone]

Square Enix has like 4 gigantic games already planned to release on PS4, another would be one more guarantee that people who are interested in their games will pick up a PS4 to play them.

Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Nier 2, and Dragon Quest XI are all probably pretty good reasons to own a PS4.

 

[QaaQer]

Actually if you include mobile then total gaming dedicated device sales (3DS, Vita, WiiU, PS3/4, Wii, X1, software and hardware) take up less than half of Japanese market (yes mobile side is software alone).

JPN aaa game industry really is utterly changed from 2005. Ds started it, and it looks like mobile will finish it. Ten short years.

 

[AniHawk]

It's a different business model. The fact that it's an online title is significant, and I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest X on Wii U hasn't sold more than DQH, unless there's been some dramatic Rocky like rise no one ever saw coming. Has it even sold more than 200,000 units yet?

And even if it hasn't, it wouldn't matter. They have a few hundred thousand subscribers across a few different platforms for that title, and that's much more important.

if i'm looking at all the right stuff, the base game has sold about 160k units on the wii u, 700k units on the wii, and 133k units on the 3ds.

 

[Vena]

if i'm looking at all the right stuff, the base game has sold about 160k units on the wii u, 700k units on the wii, and 133k units on the 3ds.

I believe there are also a slew of digital "sales" from the free promotion from Wii to WiiU. Unless memory serves me wrong.

160k base seems too low when you consider that the expansions are selling ~100kish (most recent, at least), so I would think it is actually above 200k.

 

[Cbajd5]

Square Enix has like 4 gigantic games already planned to release on PS4, another would be one more guarantee that people who are interested in their games will pick up a PS4 to play them.

Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Nier 2, and Dragon Quest XI are all probably pretty good reasons to own a PS4.

But the other games being on PS4 has no connection to what system DQXI will be on. All the Final Fantasy XIIs, Final Fantasy XIV, the Kingdom Heart HD remakes, Nier, and etc being on PS3 didn't bring DQIX or DQX to the system. (Or the PS4 in the case of a DQX port.)

if i'm looking at all the right stuff, the base game has sold about 160k units on the wii u, 700k units on the wii, and 133k units on the 3ds.

does that include all 3 vetsions for the wii and wii u, along with the bundle of the first two versions for each system

wikipedia is confusing me about how this games been released

 

[Jigorath]

DQX will outsell DQ Heroes

Spoiler

when it gets ported to PS family.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Holy shit the salt is immense in here. It's quite similar to when we all try to discuss Monster Hunter actually.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

But the other games being on PS4 has no connection to what system DQXI will be on. All the Final Fantasy XIIs, Final Fantasy XIV, the Kingdom Heart HD remakes, Nier, and etc being on PS3 didn't bring DQIX or DQX to the system. (Or the PS4 in the case of a DQX port.)

That was when there was several alternative with reasonable install base.

 

[QaaQer]

Besides, is it all that bizzare to think big jpn corporations might try to hold onto a dying business model far beyond its exp date? I think they are kind of renown for that. So yeah, some big AAA games on ps4 targeting domestic market? Sure, why not.

 

[Ray Down]

DQX will outsell DQ Heroes

Spoiler

when it gets ported to PS family.

I'm still surprised it haven't been brought over yet, wonder what the holdup is.

 

[AniHawk]

does that include all 3 vetsions for the wii and wii u, along with the bundle of the first two versions for each system

wikipedia is confusing me about how this games been released

the only combinations i'm making are for retail and whenever the base version of the game was available. this means the original release, bargain price versions, and the all-in-one edition.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I'm not going to quote Verendus's giant post, but I'm trying to make sense of a multiplatform release if a key goal is to grow the PS4 userbase in Japan so that SE can move future PS4 games. Why would consumers buy a PS4 for DQXI if it's available on a platform they already own like PS3 or 3DS? As we've seen with past PS3 and PS4 multiplatform games (not to mention Vita/PS4 games), the sales split is rarely in favor of PS4. So it must be a PS4 exclusive to accomplish this goal, but Verendus keeps talking about platform splits (also laughing). How do we reconcile these things?

Answer: it's a timed exclusive. Consumers can't buy another version if it isn't being sold yet. SE is no stranger to taking money to sit on a version of game. Further, SE has ported the last DQ mainline game all over the goddamned place, even to where it barely makes sense (3DS).

So, SE puts out DQXI on the PS4 and hopefully reaps the benefits of that arrangement (western sales, increased profile internationally, domestic PS4 userbase). Then they scoop up the stragglers in six months after they jam the game onto 3DS. And then they keep jamming the game onto more platforms because they spent a lot of money making it and they can.

This, however, makes everyone happy, so I'm probably completely wrong.

 

[Jigorath]

Holy shit the salt is immense in here. It's quite similar to when we all try to discuss Monster Hunter actually.

Nah Monster Hunter ain't leaving handhelds. Best PS4 is getting is Frontier 2 and maybe a spinoff. Like Monster Hunter Musou or something.

 

[Cbajd5]

That was when there was several alternative with reasonable install base.

That's still the case in Japan, which is still likely the only place this'll be released.

 

[Alo0oy]

Well sure, there will be some salt, but the majority of GAF will be completely fine with a PS4 announcement.

Are we reading the same thread? This thread already sounds like the Bayonetta/Bloodborne announcement/leaks threads, only stealthily hidden behind "Square shooting themselves in the foot" & "making bad business decisions".

 

[Instro]

The problem here is that home consoles represent a very very small percentage of dedicated gaming devices in Japan. Gamers have abandoned consoles.

Of course, but they are abandoning dedicated handhelds just as quickly. The upside of consoles, which is the stronger market worldwide, is greater than handhelds which are dead everywhere else and a sinking ship in Japan. Better to take the chance now I think, with there being an apparent renewed interest in console JRPGs in the West. Frankly they should really be thinking about getting the series out on Steam as well.

 

[Infernostew]

That's still the case in Japan, which is still likely the only place this'll be released.

 

[RayearthRob]

I would like it multiplatform, PS4 and Wii U. You know, more people playing, more people happy!

Spoiler

That's what we want, right?

 

[QaaQer]

Are we reading the same thread? This thread already sounds like the Bayonetta/Bloodborne announcement/leaks threads, only stealthily hidden behind "Square shooting themselves in the foot" & "making bad business decisions".

In fairness, he said the majority of gaf. I think the majority of gaf won't care at all about a dragon quest game, whatever the platform.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

That's still the case in Japan, which is still likely the only place this'll be released.

When DQXI will release which console over then the PS4 will have a big and active installbase?

Best case scenario it release next year, the 3DS is a candidate if software sales haven't dropped off by then. But what about after that?

The WiiU might (and I really don't think so) have more consoles sold in Japan then the PS4 at that point but not nearly enough for a DQ game, on the other hand the PS4 is a smashing success overseas and that might help making the game sell a lot more.

Of course there's mobile but ehh

 

[sörine]

Those numbers aren't right, the DS actually sold about 21m games in Japan as of march 2015.

21m games? I think you need to check your own numbers.

Sorry, yeah total hh/home dedicated sales in jpn on downward spiral, 3ds is amazeballs. Ww, dedicated game sales stable overall; hhs still tanking tho, including 3ds. I think that covers it.

Oh sure, we're seeing a dramatic decline in America and Europe. 3DS is barely keeping pace with PSP in these regions, it's nowhere near the DS heights and not even scratching GBA. It is ahead of GB aligned, but that doesn't mean much since it obviously won't last. PS3 also led PS1 aligned for awhile.

Worldwide though consoles are also contracting overall. Not as bad as handhelds, but there's still a sizable contraction.

It's a different business model. The fact that it's an online title is significant, and I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest X on Wii U hasn't sold more than DQH, unless there's been some dramatic Rocky like rise no one ever saw coming. Has it even sold more than 200,000 units yet?

And even if it hasn't, it wouldn't matter. They have a few hundred thousand subscribers across a few different platforms for that title, and that's much more important.

I was speaking to totals. DQX has sold over a million across Wii/U/3DS retail, while Heroes is nearing 800k on PS3/4. On just Wii U DQX did around 70k retail but that was said to be roughly a third it's total sales on the system early on (so north of 200k), and it's since had an additional budget reprint (45k) and a couple complete collections (35k+).

I understand DQX follows a different business model, but it's still a mainline multiplatform DQ, and relative comparisons could still be drawn from it's performance and circumstances. It's not a perfect comparison, but then neither is Heroes as you said, and I don't really see why exactly it makes for a worse indicator.

 

[magash]

Of course, but they are abandoning dedicated handhelds just as quickly. The upside of consoles, which is the stronger market worldwide, is greater than handhelds which are dead everywhere else and a sinking ship in Japan. Better to take the chance now I think, with there being an apparent renewed interest in console JRPGs in the West. Frankly they should really be thinking about getting the series out on Steam as well.

No they are not. The majority of dedicated device gamers are on handheld devices and gamers are abandoning consoles more than they are abandoning handhelds. Also, the importance and popularity of Japanese developed games has taken a hit in the west.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I would like it multiplatform, PS4 and Wii U. You know, more people playing, more people happy!

Spoiler

That's what we want, right?

I'd like to see it on everything possible.

I'd like to see it on 3DS as well, since I like playing DQ on handhelds, but I would probably have to leave GAF for a couple years. There would be never ending complaints from graphics babies about how the 3DS downgraded their sequel to Dragon Graphics 8: The Quest for More Graphics.

Or you know, GAF would just not buy it like they failed to buy every relevant Dragon Quest game that came out in the last decade.

Spoiler

Or it would just not come out here.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

21m games? I think you need to check your own numbers.

213m forgot, I made a typo

You mean lifetime? Um, add a zero.

Yeah I just realized where I was wrong, guess I shouldn't post this late.

 

[Father_Brain]

IWait, so you're saying I was a dick by comparing me to fans of Vita and the Wii U a couple years ago who believed in some turnaround? That doesn't even make sense. What in the name of JESUS? Maybe some of them were very polite, and believed such things without stepping on anyone's toes.

Hate us cause you ain't us.

Jabroni.

In this case, less your specific prognosis for the Japanese console market, more the mentality that leads one to treat any sales-based skepticism with accusations of "salt" and fanboyism.

I mean, it's obvious enough (though you probably won't admit it) that you jumped to the conclusion, based on very little, that I'm a frothing Nintendo fanboy enraged that I won't be able to play DQXI on my beloved 3DS. I think that says a lot.

 

[sörine]

dp

You mean lifetime? Um, add a zero.

 

[Cbajd5]

Once we have a non-mobile, non-Musou game released outside of Japan in recent history there'd be some support to the contrary and I'd be more optimistic. But that's not the world we live in.

When DQXI will release which console over then the PS4 will have a big and active installbase?

Best case scenario it release next year, the 3DS is a candidate if software sales haven't dropped off by then. But what about after that?

The WiiU might (and I really don't think so) have more consoles sold in Japan then the PS4 at that point but not nearly enough for a DQ game, on the other hand the PS4 is a smashing success overseas and that might help making the game sell a lot more.

Of course there's mobile but ehh

Aftet 2016 the NX should be out, but that's a complete unknown. And based on current projections summarized elsewhere in this thread (well, if I'm remembering correctly) it's more likely than not the Wii U would still have a larger userbase in 2016 at least. There's also PC, based on the fact DQX actually released on it. (Even if that's only because it was an MMO.)

And factoring western sales for consoles is foolish based on their recent mainline releases on consoles in the west.

and all shall fall to mobile some day

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Aftet 2016 the NX should be out, but that's a complete unknown. And based on current projections summarized elsewhere in this thread (well, if I'm remembering correctly) it's more likely than not the Wii U would still have a larger userbase in 2016 at least. There's also PC, based on the fact DQX actually released on it. (Even if that's only because it was an MMO.)

And factoring western sales for consoles is foolish based on their recent mainline releases on consoles in the west.

and all shall fall to mobile some day

Then SE is fucked and should not release a new mainline DQ games in the coming years since no console or handheld will be able to pull the usual numbers only in Japan.

 

[Father_Brain]

Then SE is fucked and should not release a new mainline DQ games in the coming years since no console or handheld will be able to pull the usual numbers only in Japan.

I think a whole lot of current players in the industry are fucked with their current business models.

 

[Infernostew]

Once we have a non-mobile, non-Musou game released outside of Japan in recent history there'd be some support to the contrary and I'd be more optimistic. But that's not the world we live in.

If SE is bringing Star Ocean 5 over and Nier 2, you better believe DQ11 is making it's way out of Japan.

 

[sörine]

Then SE is fucked and should not release a new mainline DQ games in the coming years since no console or handheld will be able to pull the usual numbers only in Japan.

3DS in 2016 yet still could. 3DS will probably still have 2016 releases that outsell DQXI too.

 

[wmlk]

If SE is bringing Star Ocean 5 over and Nier 2, you better believe DQ11 is making it's way out of Japan.

.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

3DS in 2016 yet still could. 3DS will probably still have 2016 releases that outsell DQXI too.

I personally don't think so but it's totally possible if software sales aren't slowing down.

Yokai Watch 3 should be a good indicator of whether or not it could.

 

[Jigorath]

3DS in 2016 yet still could. 3DS will probably still have 2016 releases that outsell DQXI too.

That'd be pretty bad news for NX if 3DS has such an active userbase in 2016.

 

[Cbajd5]

Then SE is fucked and should not release a new mainline DQ games in the coming years since no console or handheld will be able to pull the usual numbers only in Japan.

If they budget everything efficiently it's possible that a lower number of sales than in the past could still be profitable. But if that was the point, wouldn't it just be on mobile? The entire discussion was just that other games being released on the PS4 doesn't indicate DQXI will be on the PS4.

If SE is bringing Star Ocean 5 over and Nier 2, you better believe DQ11 is making it's way out of Japan.

I'll believe it when we see any indication a mainline non-mobile DQ is coming over. Other games being brought over have nothing to do with mainline non-mobile DQ games coming over.

 

[hurricanes]

Just my personal preference, but please don't be handheld only

I will take 3ds+console...(Wii U, NX, PS4, or even X1)

 

[AniHawk]

That'd be pretty bad news for NX if 3DS has such an active userbase in 2016.

considering the nx is replacing 3ds and nx will be a continuation of what made the 3ds popular (in theory), it would be bad for nx if the 3ds doesn't have an active userbase in 2016.

 

[Vena]

That'd be pretty bad news for NX if 3DS has such an active userbase in 2016.

Other way around. A strong tail means there's still interest in both the production of and purchasing of handheld titles, and keeps the consumer base engaged and happy.