Father_Brain
Banned
Seriously, Verendus et al.'s attitude this page reminds me of the Vita Turnaround True Believer brigade circa 2012, and some of the Wii U fans circa 2013. You can't call it a failure! We don't have all the facts!
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Yuji Horii: Dragon Quest 11 will be an offline game, for home consoles
- Thread starter Aeana
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Seriously, Verendus et al.'s attitude this page reminds me of the Vita Turnaround True Believer brigade circa 2012, and some of the Wii U fans circa 2013. You can't call it a failure! We don't have all the facts!
No, I'm saying be more open minded, as you dont know everything.
Newtype-001
Member
The bait is being eaten.
i think the point is don't go on and on about how it is a terrible idea, doesn't make any business sense, question people over why they think it is good and square are dumb posts like pennywise was doing without knowing what happened in closed doors. you don't think square sat in a meeting room and went over the fact that 3ds/mobile is probably the best platform to release on going by the past and current state in japanese industry?
all i am saying is just say something along the lines of "it seems like a risky move going by the comments. 3ds is probably the best platform" and then move on!! discuss the game, how it can be better or worse on home console, there are more things to discuss besides trying to figure out what is the release strategy of a game before it is even officially announced for any platform!! etc...
I think he is saying don't be shocked if SE have other goal than just have good sales on DQXI alone.
You can't revive something which is already dead. You can sorta only reanimate corpses for short periods.
There are a lot of bags of money being tossed around nowadays, however, which can put a wrench into any arguments about business sense.
Newtype-001
Member
Phoenix Down + Elixr and were set.
There's already a lot of salt now. All it took was one mention of DQ on home console and a Michael Jordan laughing gif to send half this forum into a rage spiral.
Unless it's X-Box exclusive or something, I doubt it.
Most people with any sense expect it on at least PS4, maybe with PS3 cross-platform, possibly streaming on 3DS.
Father_Brain
Banned
Yeah, it's obvious enough what SE's strategic goal would be in putting DQXI on PS4, but I can't see it working out for them unless Sony is funding a large portion of the development costs. The market forces favoring mobile and (to a lesser degree) dedicated handhelds in Japan are just too strong, and I doubt DQ will ever be more than a niche franchise in Western markets.
Heh, I think expectations have been see on PS4 now so unless there's a shock swerve it won't be like DQIX on DS coming out of nowhere.
Sammy Samusu
Member
It's a different kind of salt.
I have already accepted that DQXI is a PS4 game, but 3DS makes a lot more business sense.
I look forward to the DQNXI version.
Well there were Xbox360 exclusive JRPGS (things weren't announced as timed), and some of them did stay exclusive even those weren't published by MS.
And because of those, did third party devs/pubs lose money? I do not have any data but I'm speculating they didn't.. (but I'm also guessing MS did).
As for DQXI I still think PS4 is getting spin-off and 3DS is getting mainline DQ
Right, it also doesn't necessarily reflect people's personal feelings on the game itself either. I really like the Codename STEAM aesthetic but it was a terrible business decision.
themagicalkitsune
Member
Yep. As always, all these speculations and theories that 'make sense business-wise' go out the window when the platform is revealed.
Not expecting DQ IX level salt but still.
Are the 3DS or bust people expecting DQ to bomb? The game is going to rake cash no matter what. Maybe it would make more on 3DS but MH4 would of sold more on Psp but capcom had to move on just like SE might be deciding. I'm sure the extensive DLC and money from Sony will cover any potential lost revenue from decreased unit sales.
Pretty positive DQ11 on 3DS wouldn't sell more than DQ9 either. Should they not release it on there as well? How about don't release the game at all since there is no guarantee they can outsell DQ9 since that is the only bench mark we are capable of using for judging where the game should release.
Pretty positive DQ11 on 3DS wouldn't sell more than DQ9 either. Should they not release it on there as well? How about don't release the game at all since there is no guarantee they can outsell DQ9 since that is the only bench mark we are capable of using for judging where the game should release.
Why do game sales always have to be the endgame?
Oh, OK. So that's what it is.
ooh, platform guesses -
i'm guessing ps4 is the new home of dq for the foreseeable future, with nintendo possibly getting spinoffs on nx. imagine something like the playstation/gb/gbc relationship in the late 90s or early 00s. it's difficult to tell just how much sony is consolidating japanese development to their side, but it seems like the only other company they're truly fighting with in that space is nintendo. the most nintendo might hope for is a multiplatform release of xi for nx (because a wii u release would be crazy), and/or probably a port of x, at least for starters. i kind of feel like nintendo recently publishing s-e's games and getting very little in terms of future support is a bad move, so there's probably more stuff coming their way from square enix.
as a side note, it's weird to have seen square enix kind of sleep through last gen only to get up and start making a bunch of shit people want. what happened at the top? did a bunch of guys who were small guys in the 90s and early 00s come to power?
i'm guessing ps4 is the new home of dq for the foreseeable future, with nintendo possibly getting spinoffs on nx. imagine something like the playstation/gb/gbc relationship in the late 90s or early 00s. it's difficult to tell just how much sony is consolidating japanese development to their side, but it seems like the only other company they're truly fighting with in that space is nintendo. the most nintendo might hope for is a multiplatform release of xi for nx (because a wii u release would be crazy), and/or probably a port of x, at least for starters. i kind of feel like nintendo recently publishing s-e's games and getting very little in terms of future support is a bad move, so there's probably more stuff coming their way from square enix.
as a side note, it's weird to have seen square enix kind of sleep through last gen only to get up and start making a bunch of shit people want. what happened at the top? did a bunch of guys who were small guys in the 90s and early 00s come to power?
what other metric is there to use in console warring
SnowFlakeCake
Member
There's a lot of Nintendo fans here worried about the SE business, really lovely to see how much care and passion there is for SE stocks! Ignoring the very large likelihood that Horii has decided that he wants to make a game for the large screen is asinine to say the least. He ain't a developer that SE could just replace, he would have a very large say on where the game is going to go and it's not like he has said XB1 exclusive where from the business side SE would say fuck off to him.
DQ 11 if on consoles ain't going to be cutting edge technology but being on the Wii U and PS3 would be a huge step over anything in the franchise anyway, particularly mainline titles. As the mod with the smile picture alluded to, Horii is not a young man anymore and at this stage he would just be making the game he wants to rather than thinking about money. If you want to think about the money side, SE does have an interest in helping ensure the home console market is not a complete graveyard in Japan. We ain't even going back to the PS2 days but at the current trajectory, Japan console gaming is fucked.
With all the news about the gaming market anyway, if you care about business so much then DQ 11 should be released on mobile only, maybe even episodic to really maximize profits.
I don't think Verendus had a clue what he was getting himself into, mans getting Media Create NintendoGaf mad. This was never going to end well for him.
DQ 11 if on consoles ain't going to be cutting edge technology but being on the Wii U and PS3 would be a huge step over anything in the franchise anyway, particularly mainline titles. As the mod with the smile picture alluded to, Horii is not a young man anymore and at this stage he would just be making the game he wants to rather than thinking about money. If you want to think about the money side, SE does have an interest in helping ensure the home console market is not a complete graveyard in Japan. We ain't even going back to the PS2 days but at the current trajectory, Japan console gaming is fucked.
With all the news about the gaming market anyway, if you care about business so much then DQ 11 should be released on mobile only, maybe even episodic to really maximize profits.
I don't think Verendus had a clue what he was getting himself into, mans getting Media Create NintendoGaf mad. This was never going to end well for him.
Sales in Japan are just a single factor.
There are many others.
*Deals between companies (you know Resident Evil going to Gamecube despite the PS2 success, Monster Hunter going to 3DS at a time where nothing could be said about Vita's success and all the fanbase was on PSP, Tomb Raider going first to Xbox despite the fanbase being all on PS/PC).
*Strategic goals for the series thinking outside of Japan.
*Strategic goals of the whole company trying to be successful at cultivating an ecosystem where you can play all their major games on a single very successful console (like in the PS1 and PS2 days).
*A creator thinking that after so many years it's time to move on from being stucked in the PS2 generation because of certain hardware limitations hence the desire to try to go big and ambitious again like they were with DQ8 in 2004?
In any case fact is that the creator has already said to expect the game on home consoles, so certain options are already out of the picture unless we're willing to say that he might be lying
Some people want to argue that for them this is not the right decision? We can discuss about that but it's kinda pointless without knowing the details involved, also the game is still NOT announced.
Some people want to stick to a single argument, the japanese sales, to say that despite what Horii is saying, the game will still definetly be for 3DS? That's delusional.
Btw this is premature, the game has to be announced first, hopefully at TGS?
I never get these statements.
Besides Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest, their output was largely similar.
They had Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, Nier, new IPs, and so on.
The games largely ended up being disliked, but that's hindsight.
Father_Brain
Banned
oh, ffs, Nintendo fanboyism is not the only reason why one might look at PS4's abysmal sales in Jaoan and conclude that putting DQXI on consoles is a bad business decision.
Do you own SE stock? No? Neither do I, and I would rather have the best experience possible on PS4.
Newtype-001
Member
I see it that if it does come out on the ps4 SE are probably looking at the wider market rather than just domestically. It would be great if they try another western push for dragon quest.
You spelled PC wrong
It won't bomb. It will just likely sell a lot less copies, maybe around 2 million less, and be more expensive to develop.
Some people do actually prefer to play on the go so to them a home console/PC release isn't the best experience.
Father_Brain
Banned
Sales in Japan are just a single factor.
There are many others.
*Deals between companies (you know Resident Evil going to Gamecube despite the PS2 success, Monster Hunter going to 3DS at a time where nothing could be said about Vita's success and all the fanbase was on PSP, Tomb Raider going first to Xbox despite the fanbase being all on PS/PC).
*Strategic goals for the series thinking outside of Japan.
*Strategic goals of the whole company trying to be successful at cultivating an ecosystem where you can play all their major games on a single very successful console (like in the PS1 and PS2 days).
*A creator thinking that after so many years it's time to move on from being stucked in the PS2 generation because of certain hardware limitations hence the desire to try to go big and ambitious again like they were with DQ8 in 2004?
In any case fact is that the creator has already said to expect the game on home consoles, so certain options are already out of the picture unless we're willing to say that he might be lying
Some people want to argue that for them this is not the right decision? We can discuss about that but it's kinda pointless without knowing the details involved, also the game is still NOT announced.
Some people want to stick to a single argument, the japanese sales, to say that despite what Horii is saying, the game will still be definetly for 3DS? That's delusional.
Btw this is premature, the game has to be announced first, hopefully at TGS?
First of all, pretty much no one thinks DQXI is "definitely" for 3DS at this point.
Secondly, Horii's preferences for the franchise aside, it's obvious enough what the strategic thinking behind DQXI on PS4 would be (revitalizing the JP console market, possibly expanding the audience for the series in the West). That doesn't mean it's unreasonable to question whether those strategic goals are in touch with reality.
That person was arguing that the ps4 would provide the best experience. In reality, if people cared about the best experience rather than console wars they'd be pinning for a PC exclusive DQ
i suppose that's true. maybe it's just the last couple of years where new final fantasy games were largely related to final fantasy xiii (including type-0 and -ahem- 'xv') and final fantasy xiv where it felt like a lot of their output was pretty homogenous. i think simply losing new game ideas to the final fantasy name, or even losing what might have been original entries in other series to new final fantasy games hurt perception as well. had tri-ace made valkyrie profile 3 and concluded the trilogy, and had square-enix's output been stronger in general (not half-assing it on certain franchises, and not giving flippant responses to stuff like chrono trigger sequel requests), i think their general vibe would have been better.
But it is a reason you would continue to argue till your blue in the face. Besides most of you are known from media create threads. No doubt there is a business argument for putting it on the 3DS but "business reasons" usually only comes up when a game isn't on your preferred console.
*On consoles. Also I'll take the extra power they have over on the go play.
Really they could also put it on PC but they would have to put it at least on PS4 too.
mejin
Member
Exclusive DQ on PC? Why people would want the end of the series?
We enjoy the sales talk a lot in GAF (I really do) but sometimes it seems that some users are more interested in playing sales numbers than the games themselves, and I don't understand that.
Horii has been hinting about DQXI being a console game to play on a big screen for some time. We all know (or we should know) that the game would sell more on 3DS than on any other platform, specially in Japan. That doesn't seem to bother him, as he has a vision that he wants to fulfill.
Talking about how those decisions could affect sales performance is obviously ok, but shouldn't we also have interest in discussing about how those decisions could benefit us as gamers? what new features could we get? localisation chances? lack of region locking?
I certainly prefer a game not constrained by 3ds hardware in 2016/17. And I don't own stocks from any publisher so I think its ok to be selfish about it.
Horii has been hinting about DQXI being a console game to play on a big screen for some time. We all know (or we should know) that the game would sell more on 3DS than on any other platform, specially in Japan. That doesn't seem to bother him, as he has a vision that he wants to fulfill.
Talking about how those decisions could affect sales performance is obviously ok, but shouldn't we also have interest in discussing about how those decisions could benefit us as gamers? what new features could we get? localisation chances? lack of region locking?
I certainly prefer a game not constrained by 3ds hardware in 2016/17. And I don't own stocks from any publisher so I think its ok to be selfish about it.
because horii wants to make the best game possible and fans want him to accomplish his dreams.
OrbitalBeard
Member
If the platform is PS4, there will be very little salt. At this point, it's kind of expected.
The salt will come if it's announced for something like Wii U or NX.
boredandlazy
Member
You do realise that posts like this do nothing but fuel the flames? Which is a bit ironic since you seem to think you're above all that.
Put yourself in Yuji Horii's shoes. If given the option, would you make the next mainline Dragon Quest on a rinky-dink 3DS with hardware from 2009 and a screen the size of a toenail?
Or would you opt for a big beautiful PS4, taking advantage of all this supercharged graphical beast has to offer and revolutionizing the JRPG genre once again?
For Horii, the answer may be simple.
Or would you opt for a big beautiful PS4, taking advantage of all this supercharged graphical beast has to offer and revolutionizing the JRPG genre once again?
For Horii, the answer may be simple.
Cbajd5
Member
y'all are stoopid
the ps4 doesn't even have a screen
that's like the opposite of a large screen
Although honestly I can't see it releasing on the PS4 and Xbox One, especially since DQX hasn't even released on either of them. A couple of Musous doesn't really inspire confidence that they want to bring the mainline to the PS4 either.
I could see PC, Wii U, and/or NX. (after laptops have screens and the gamepad has a screen and the nx might just be a large screen, has anyone considered that) I don't get why they would't just port it to PS4 (and Xbox One I guess) if they're putting it on PC, but they didn't do that for DQX so what do I know.
The only reason I'd consider the 3DS after all these comments would be their dedication to getting the mainline games on it (even DQX!) but the number of comments that place it on home consoles makes me believe otherwise.
(Unless he just doesn't consider the 3DS portable for some silly reason. It's kinda big and people complain that the XLs are impossible to carry like a handheld sometimes, but I don't think so. I mean, I can carry it in my pocket quite easily, although I once carried a Wii and all the cables and a few controllers in my pockets once so I might not be the best judge.)
So to summarize, what if the NX is just a big screen? Wouldn't that be neat?
the ps4 doesn't even have a screen
that's like the opposite of a large screen
Although honestly I can't see it releasing on the PS4 and Xbox One, especially since DQX hasn't even released on either of them. A couple of Musous doesn't really inspire confidence that they want to bring the mainline to the PS4 either.
I could see PC, Wii U, and/or NX. (after laptops have screens and the gamepad has a screen and the nx might just be a large screen, has anyone considered that) I don't get why they would't just port it to PS4 (and Xbox One I guess) if they're putting it on PC, but they didn't do that for DQX so what do I know.
The only reason I'd consider the 3DS after all these comments would be their dedication to getting the mainline games on it (even DQX!) but the number of comments that place it on home consoles makes me believe otherwise.
(Unless he just doesn't consider the 3DS portable for some silly reason. It's kinda big and people complain that the XLs are impossible to carry like a handheld sometimes, but I don't think so. I mean, I can carry it in my pocket quite easily, although I once carried a Wii and all the cables and a few controllers in my pockets once so I might not be the best judge.)
So to summarize, what if the NX is just a big screen? Wouldn't that be neat?
OrbitalBeard
Member
You act as if Horii didn't want to put DQ on DS and Wii. I'm sure he'd have no problem with 3DS if he wanted to do another handheld game. And yeah, I know you're joking lol but still....some people actually think this way.
If DQXI is on PS4, it's going to be crazy to see the series essentially skip a generation in terms of hardware power.
3DS represented ~55% software sales for Japanese retail last year. PS4 was ~5% fwiw.
For Japanese heavy franchise like Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest, it's does not hurt to pull a Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and then put it on very single relevant platform. The Japanese certainly don't seem to care if the game exist on PC or consoles anyway. Capture the bulk of the fanbase in Japan and appeal to the international audience in the West.
We are in an era where Japanese home console franchises are hitting PC frequently, the handheld-only games would likely follow this trend.
We are in an era where Japanese home console franchises are hitting PC frequently, the handheld-only games would likely follow this trend.
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