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Zoë Quinn writes on games industry's reaction to harassment "Risky Business"

Mael

Member
I know that it can be fun to mock people by mimicking the irrational things they say or the irrational ways they act, but it can produce the same effect as people saying it without the sarcastic tag. Saying something sexist sarcastically and saying the same thing seriously is still saying the sexist thing one more time.

You're welcome to keep doing it if you want to, of course, and I'm not saying that you're intending to put something sexist out there. But is it really adding something of value to say something sexist and then say the equivalent of "just kidding", any more than it would be to say something racist and then "/s" afterwards?
The /s is really there to be sure no mistake this as being the position I stand on.
What I was trying to convey is that the people who go all "I can't criticize these women or I'll be labeled as a bad guy" are really something that should read as "They're beneath me, I don't respect their opinion because of who they are and I won't lower myself to debating their points".
It's the very same things you see every time Obama open his mouth on some channels.
I don't think I need to explain why that's not a behavior I condone.

I've thought similar about this consistent bringing up of "didn't she sleep with a journalist for X" falsity. An idea already expressed in this topic is that if this was simply about journalism, the fault for any conflict of interest would lie with the person breaking their responsibilities, i.e. the journalist in question. Yet Zoe is painted as the evil succubus who used sex to manipulate a journalist into writing about her game and almost 2 and a half years later, it's still her that is on every gater's lips as the instigator and the reason for ruination of the industry. I'd think if you're so fervently against Zoe based on this non-truth, barely paying any bit of the responsibility to the person with the job that will be compromised, it's possible that you are fully aware of how easily you'd drop your responsibilities if sex was on the table. I don't know whether it's true or not but I've seen this same "my hate hides my true nature" phenomenon too much outside of gaming to not think about it.

This whole point is such a thin veiled BS it would be deemed inappropriate clothing for a porno.
Especially when days later a huge publisher did the very thing they claim to be against and they go all "yeah, it's not important. We need to focus on the real issue here".
I was highly skeptical of game journalism, this movement basically proved to me that the issue really was overblown.
 

This kid is a dirtbag. I can't stand swatters.

This GG controversy won't end until someone dies at this point which is sad. Unless the industry is willing to have an honest conversation about the racism and misogyny rampant in online gaming. Maybe someone can reach a breakthrough at E3 seeing as GG is so big, but yet it's completely ignored by the gaming media.
 

gabbo

Member
This kid is a dirtbag. I can't stand swatters.

This GG controversy won't end until someone dies at this point which is sad. Unless the industry is willing to have an honest conversation about the racism and misogyny rampant in online gaming. Maybe someone can reach a breakthrough at E3 seeing as GG is so big, but yet it's completely ignored by the gaming media.

And risk alienating even the grossest, lowest form of paying customers? Not likely.
 

alstein

Member
And risk alienating even the grossest, lowest form of paying customers? Not likely.

Customers will be thrown away if they're not worth the money they spend due to their toxicity. I know of at least one company (often criticized here) who has voided serials and refunded money due to excessive toxicity by customers in the past.

The problem is there aren't enough customers who do care enough to make it an issue. These things are only solved by growing the market, not dictates from above, and it's a process that takes years (and has already started)
 

Simbabbad

Member
It's horrifying that until now she still gets harrassed. It's unfair for her. When will they stop harassing her?

When feminism is destroyed or something.
It's not specifically related to this issue. Just look at what happened to Phil Fish. Online harassment and mass hysteria isn't even specifically tied to video games or celebrities, but to the fact society is now confronted with all the potential of the Internet. You had science fictions short stories and novels in the 70s that imagined with fear the sort of society we live in now.

If some sort of planet scale disaster removed the Internet, the issue would also disappear. Question is, can your remove the issue without the Internet?
 
And risk alienating even the grossest, lowest form of paying customers? Not likely.

If the industry stood in solidarity against the filth where would the shitty customers go? They'll complain and then get with the program eventually because us Gamers, Gator or Anti Gator, love our games. I guess a lot of the publishers are afraid that a company will rise up and claim pro-GG to steal all of the shitty customers away. A YouTuber did win an award last year after stating he wanted to see Anita dead or something close to that. So the industry definitely needs some soul searching.
 

Simbabbad

Member
Why not out all the harassers info to the internet. Make that shit public.
That's a solution.

The core of the problem is, as Penny Arcade once said, easy anonymity + audience...

dickwad2_det_1024x1024.jpg


Remove the anonymity, and there goes the problem. But are people ready to accept it?
 

alstein

Member
Why not out all the harassers info to the internet. Make that shit public.

What if you were declared the harasser?

Any time you call for stuff like that, remember it is easy for the tables to be turned.

Using bullying to fight bullying only leads to escalation. Ultimately, the only solution is, as much as people hate to do it, dialogue.
 

fallout

Member
That's a solution.

The core of the problem is, as Penny Arcade once said, easy anonymity + audience...

dickwad2_det_1024x1024.jpg


Remove the anonymity, and there goes the problem. But are people ready to accept it?
I think based on what I've seen from Facebook and public Twitter profiles, anonymity isn't much of a contributor. There's just something about the internet in general that turns people into shitheads. Likely the lack of direct human interaction. Probably the same reason why road rage is a thing.
 

Nairume

Banned
I think based on what I've seen from Facebook and public Twitter profiles, anonymity isn't much of a contributor. There's just something about the internet in general that turns people into shitheads. Likely the lack of direct human interaction. Probably the same reason why road rage is a thing.
Yeah, as clever as Internet Dickwad Theory was back in the day, it's clearly been disproved.

Even PA's own Gabe has shown it doesn't work, since he's a very public figure and has said/done some pretty dickish things.
 

Simbabbad

Member
People being uncivil in real life or without anonimity is one thing, but the waves of virtual lynch mobs couldn't exist without anonymity, because then everybody could be potentially victim of abuse. The current state of the Internet gives way too much disadvantage to public figures.
 

fallout

Member
People being uncivil in real life or without anonimity is one thing, but the waves of virtual lynch mobs couldn't exist without anonymity, because then everybody could be potentially victim of abuse. The current state of the Internet gives way too much disadvantage to public figures.
Nah, that's certainly true. My post wasn't really comparing the correct things. One is people on the internet being dicks. The one that's happening here is people being harassed.
 
That's a solution.

The core of the problem is, as Penny Arcade once said, easy anonymity + audience...

dickwad2_det_1024x1024.jpg


Remove the anonymity, and there goes the problem. But are people ready to accept it?

It's funny how the person who drew that comic actually disproved the theory through his own actions.

It's not anonymity, it's lack of consequence.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Remove the anonymity, and there goes the problem.
That's just not true at all. Hateful messages on Facebook and Twitter from people using their real name and often their pictures have proven this theory to be 100% false.

Replace anonymity with "no consequences" and yeah there's a case to be made there.
 

Simbabbad

Member
Anonymity and lack of consequence are obviously related on a global scale.

It's funny how the person who drew that comic actually disproved the theory through his own actions.
Not at all. The comic isn't saying that every person misbehaving does so thanks to anonymity, it says anonymity tempts normal people into misbehaving. Especially for young people, anonymity is a poisoned gift.
 
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