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[hououinkyouma00]

Sony/SIE need more Japanese and Asian studios, not Western FPS-centric ones. At least in terms of balanced taste that would appeal to me.

Also MachineGames doesn't work on the Quake or DOOM titles; that's iD Software. MachineGames focus on Wolfenstein, and I don't think that IP's likely worth the cost of purchase when SIE have stuff like SOCOM, Resistance, and Kill Zone right there (all of which carry more sway with longtime PS players and would get at least comparable (if not more) reception from players at large).



They already have one. It's called Bungie.

Fix Bungie up.



So would Bungie, if they got fixed up right.

Bungie is a shell of what they were. Bungie today is not the Bungie that made Marathon of old, Halo 1-3/ODST/Reach, or Destiny 1. They obviously don't care about single player games and I doubt they have the true talent to do it anyways.

Machine Games is much more capable

 

[xrnzaaas]

Machine Games are first-person perspective devs, they couldn't even make Indy full tpp and use that hq Harrison Ford model outside of cutscenes. How would that work with Sony's tpp action-adventure (with sidekick) template?

 

[bender]

I've always found Machine Games output to be lackluster. They'd fit right in with this iteration of Sony's first party studios.

 

[Varteras]

I've always found Machine Games output to be lackluster. They'd fit right in with this iteration of Sony's first parry studios.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

Sony/SIE need more Japanese and Asian studios, not Western FPS-centric ones. At least in terms of balanced taste that would appeal to me.

Also MachineGames doesn't work on the Quake or DOOM titles; that's iD Software. MachineGames focus on Wolfenstein, and I don't think that IP's likely worth the cost of purchase when SIE have stuff like SOCOM, Resistance, and Kill Zone right there (all of which carry more sway with longtime PS players and would get at least comparable (if not more) reception from players at large).



They already have one. It's called Bungie.

Fix Bungie up.



So would Bungie, if they got fixed up right.

Actually they might not have made quake but they do and could create quake if the ip was brought they did do Quake: Dimension of the Past

 

[larrybrady]

What was the last commercial hit Machine Games had? Indie game doesn't cite numbers on wiki, so I assume failed to meet expectations?

A.i overview says 500,000 on ps5,and 475,00 on steam,however true or not that is,even if it's off by 20%,it's still not great

 

[xanaum]

I can't think of anything this studio has that Sony doesn't already have.

Now, if they were acquiring ID Software, that'd be a whole different story.

 

[LordOcidax]

Bullshit… Sony is not going to buy games studios any time soon.

 

[deriks]

Doubt anyone would buy them without spicing it up with wolfenstein at the very least.

They can buy with Wolfenstein if ID sells, and let's say that this happens...

New Order was nice, New Colossus was ok, but sales wise was great and not good, respectively

But hey, developer teams always have pitches for different games. Maybe they can deliver the next great thing

 

[Gitaroo]

unless they want to acquire a studio to revive their FPS ip since they don't have any capacity to work on it themselves. I don't see how machine games fit into their studio. To be honest MG was almost a 1 hit wonder, out side of the first Wolfenstien reboot being very good, rest are so so to just bad. Probably better if bethesta get them to do Riddick sequal

 

[AmuroChan]

The only thing keeping Sony from offering $3.6 billions for machine games and the right to Wolfenstein is that they have yet to realize they could make a sequel starring the pregnant lady from 2 AND Debra Wilson

Fuck, Neil Druckmann might even chip in personally.

Now that Nishino is the sole CEO of SIE, I don't think he has any appetite for this shit. The next thing he needs to do is get rid of Herman Hulst.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I didn't say sales don't matter. I'm saying in M&A, IP is king and far more important than some rando employee at a company. An IP has inherent value the moment you obtain it. For example, if Sony obtains the Wolfenstein IP, they can immediately monetize the Wolfenstein back catalog of games. Joe Schmo from Engineering at Machinegames has lesser value to them because Joe Schmo can leave tomorrow and go to another company or Sony already has their own Joe Schmo that already does the same work. Again, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just telling you as someone who works in M&A, no buyer ever comes to the table and say I want your employees as the first demand. They always start with IPs and assets.

Also, I like how in one of your posts you say "personal insults are entirely unnecessary" and then you jump straight to personal insults, but hey you do you.

Your argument makes no sense and is fundamentally disconnected to the reality of the topic of discussion.

"With M&A, you always start with IP"... but Sony knows the Wolfenstein IP doesn't reside with Machine Games. So if the rumor has any credibility, then Sony MUST be interested in buying the studio because of reasons OTHER than IP.

Sony bought Bluepoint games without any IP.

Your argument boils down to, Sony cannot buy the studio because it doesn't come with IP. It's a fucking fallacious argument.

Studio can and have been purchased for reasons other than IP many times before across the industry. You're just wrong.

 

[phant0m]

Pls no.

1st party needs to fuck off from acquisition and closure

 

[Hideous Snake]

MG doesn't own those and this source is comical

 

[PeteBull]

Now that Nishino is the sole CEO of SIE, I don't think he has any appetite for this shit. The next thing he needs to do is get rid of Herman Hulst.

Nishino after he found out how much sony's gaas initiative costed them this gen, when talking to hermen:

 

[AmuroChan]

Your argument boils down to, Sony cannot buy the studio because it doesn't come with IP. It's a fucking fallacious argument.

Literally not my argument at all. I have no take on whether Sony should or shouldn't buy the studio. I'm going to assume you read someone else's post and replied to the wrong person, because I didn't say anything about that. My only point was that in M&A, IPs and assets are valued more than the individual employees.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Literally not my argument at all. I have no take on whether Sony should or shouldn't buy the studio. I'm going to assume you read someone else's post and replied to the wrong person, because I didn't say anything about that. My only point was that in M&A, IPs and assets are valued more than the individual employees.

You missed the point entirely (again).

The point you are actually making is entirely moot, because Sony knows (as do we) that Machine Games doesn't own any of its IP. Soooooooooo... if they are actually looking to buy them, IP is OSTENSIBLY not the fucking reason.

So in this case, as in many I also mentioned in my previous post, IPs and assets are not important... therefore, IP and assets are not always important in M&As.

 

[Griffon]

Let it die.

Sony should just open a new studio and recruit the best ex-machine games people and a few other good ones.

Studios aren't people, the names have no value and the people in it rarely stay. Just get the best devs.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Let it die.

Sony should just open a new studio and recruit the best ex-machine games people and a few other good ones.

Studios aren't people, the names have no value and the people in it rarely stay. Just get the best devs.

This is a fair point.

To be fair, the smart thing to do is let MS shut them down and then Sony hire all of them up and give them a new studio under the PS umbrella. Bingo! You get the whole studio and haven't had to pay a dime.

 

[RickMasters]

They made the new Indiana Jones game though.

Good enough reason for MS to keep them. This is just a baseless rumour anyway so it's a non starter.

 

[archangelmorph]

From a business perspective, the IPs are what's valuable, because they are yours forever (or until you sell them to someone else). The team itself is not as valuable because people can leave for other jobs. There's also no guarantee that a team that's highly esteemed today will be that in 10 years (ie. Bioware, Bungie, etc). That's why Insomniac was so cheap to acquire, because they came with no IPs.

Some people have memories like gold fish.

If IP was the only thing that was important and teams had no value in talent then Kojima Productions (who left Konami with no IP or tech), would not have found the lifeline needed to see themselves revived and to grace us with Death Stranding 1 & 2 plus more new projects on the way.

Also Bungie would have never had gone on to create the monster that was Destiny, far bigger than Halo is scale, scope and commercial success (until they eventually fucked themselves into the shadow of a former company they are today).

You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about.

 

[AmuroChan]

Some people have memories like gold fish.

If IP was the only thing that was important and teams had no value in talent then Kojima Productions (who left Konami with no IP or tech), would not have found the lifeline needed to see themselves revived and to grace us with Death Stranding 1 & 2 plus more new projects on the way.

Also Bungie would have never had gone on to create the monster that was Destiny, far bigger than Halo is scale, scope and commercial success (until they eventually fucked themselves into the shadow of a former company they are today).

You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about.

That's because you're putting words in my mouth that I've never said. I said IPs and assets are more valuable than the average employee of a company when it comes to M&A. I didn't say it was the ONLY thing that matters. Also, Kojima is not a M&A situation. KojiPro was never on the market to be acquired by anyone. So Kojima is irrelevant to this conversation. In fact, you bringing up Kojima actually makes my point for me. There was no real reason for Sony to try to acquire Kojima. They don't hold any IPs and Kojima is 60. It's easier to just contract him to make a game for you. Let's answer a simple question - do you think Microsoft acquired Activision because they wanted all of Activision's employees, or because they wanted Call of Duty and all of Activistion's other IPs? If the industry wide layoffs aren't clear enough, corporations don't really give a shit about the average employee. They're basically all expendable outside of some exceptions.

 

[AmuroChan]

You missed the point entirely (again).

The point you are actually making is entirely moot, because Sony knows (as do we) that Machine Games doesn't own any of its IP. Soooooooooo... if they are actually looking to buy them, IP is OSTENSIBLY not the fucking reason.

So in this case, as in many I also mentioned in my previous post, IPs and assets are not important... therefore, IP and assets are not always important in M&As.

It's moot to you because you don't actually understand my point. To buy MG, Sony would have to talk to Microsoft, not MG. MG is still owned by Microsoft (as of right now). So for example, Sony could ask MS if they're willing to package the Wolfenstein IP as part of the acquisition. MS, of course, could (and probably would say no), but it's not unprecendented to sell an IP as part of an acquisition.

If Microsoft somehow releases them and MG becomes independent, then yes, we can have the conversation that you want to have because at that point, it's understood that an acquisition of MG would be simply purchasing the studio.

Let's think about it this way. If the employees are more important than the IPs and assets, then why is Microsoft holding on to the IPs and ok with closing down the studio and laying off all the employees? Microsoft didn't spend $68B on Activision because they wanted Activision's employees for themselves. If they wanted to poach talent, they could just do that. That happens all the time in the industry. They bought Activision because they wanted Call of Duty and all the other IPs under Activision's portfolio.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It's moot to you because you don't actually understand my point.

No, it's moot because your point makes no sense.

To buy MG, Sony would have to talk to Microsoft, not MG.

And? MS is looking to shut studios down and MG is listed one "at risk". So MS would be glad to sell the studio.

MG is still owned by Microsoft (as of right now). So for example, Sony could ask MS if they're willing to package the Wolfenstein IP as part of the acquisition. MS, of course, could (and probably would say no), but it's not unprecendented to sell an IP as part of an acquisition.

If Sony isn't interested in the Wolfenstein IP---and why would they, considering the games don't really sell---then they can just buy the studio. Why start asking about buying an IP that doesn't offer much value?

And the rumour isn't about Sony buying the Wolfenstein IP. It's about Sony buying the studio MG.

If MG didn't have much success making Wolfenstein games under MS, changing studio ownership isn't suddenly going to change their fortunes.

Meanwhile, MG is still a talented studio and so Sony could give them one of their IP like Socom, Killzone or Resistance, and MG would do any one of those justice.

Sony doesn't need Wolfenstein. You seem to want to insist that they MUST obtain IP. They don't need to and don't have to for the acquisition to make sense.

Let's think about it this way. If the employees are more important than the IPs and assets,.....

No-one is arguing this. So you didn't grasp the point I've been making at all. Are you even reading posts or do you skim halfway and then just hit reply.

My argument is that Sony doesn't HAVE to want the IP for the studio acquisition to make sense.

And to answer your dumb question, "why is MS keeping the IP and laying off the studio staff", because employees cost money in terms of overheads and owning and IP doesn't.... fucking duh!

That said, studio talent is equally as important as IP. Otherwise, DMC made by Ninja Theory would have been just as good as Devil May Cry by Capcom's Japanese studio. Or equally, Zelda games made by some no-name Indian studio would be just as good as Nintendo home dev houses, so why doesn't Nintendo save costs and farm out their first party games to India?

Of course the value of an IP is intrinsically linked to the talent of the studio that makes it.

 

[AmuroChan]

My argument is that Sony doesn't HAVE to want the IP for the studio acquisition to make sense.

And to answer your dumb question, "why is MS keeping the IP and laying off the studio staff", because employees cost money in terms of overheads and owning and IP doesn't.... fucking duh!

If that's your argument, I never disagreed with that. Like I said, I don't care if Sony wants to acquire MG or not. I'm pretty sure you're the one advocating for Sony to acquire them, which is fine. I don't care either way. And to your second statement, that's exactly MY point. Employees are expendable and ephemeral, which is why in a M&A, of which I've worked on at least 30 of them in my career, we don't do a valuation of individual employees. We do valuation of the assets and IPs for our clients. They don't care about some Joe Schmo in Engineering, because Joe Schmo could leave the company next week, or he could be laid off due to redundancy. Paramount wants to buy WB because Paramount wants WB's IPs and back catalogue. They don't care about WB's employees. In fact, thousands of WB's employees are almost certainly going to be laid off when the deal closes.

 

[down 2 orth]

If this is true, it shows how tone deaf Sony leadership still is. Wolfenstein 2 and its spin offs were woke as fuck, and their sales weren't impressive either.

That being said, I kind of want Sony to do this too. Sony's first party reputation and brand is getting hit hard, and factor in the inevitable failures of Fairgame$, Fatty Horizon, and whatever other awful shit they have cooking, that's a lot of popcorn moments to look forward to. The deeper the hole they dig, the stronger the lesson for the industry and its investors.

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

I wish the money they spent on Bungie, they spent on either Square or Konami, they've wasted too much on western studios.

 

[saintjules]

The source is Millie A a well known fake insider.

Yup

 

[AmuroChan]

If this is true, it shows how tone deaf Sony leadership still is. Wolfenstein 2 and its spin offs were woke as fuck, and their sales weren't impressive either.

That being said, I kind of want Sony to do this too. Sony's first party reputation and brand is getting hit hard, and factor in the inevitable failures of Fairgame$, Fatty Horizon, and whatever other awful shit they have cooking, that's a lot of popcorn moments to look forward to. The deeper the hole they dig, the stronger the lesson for the industry and its investors.

I don't think this is true at all. I can maybe believe it if Jim Ryan was still there, but I don't think Nishino has any appetite for making this acquisition.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Yup

As insufferable as he is, he remains credible. Especially when pitted against Millie. Personally, I'd pay to see them both get down in Thunderdome. Sitting on the throne with Tina.

 

[coffinbirth]

yeah a "first person" indy game. which bombed anywhere it launced

Disney immediately green-lit a sequel, so not sure how true that actually is.

 

[down 2 orth]

I don't think this is true at all. I can maybe believe it if Jim Ryan was still there, but I don't think Nishino has any appetite for making this acquisition.

I'm inclined to think so as well. Successful companies don't double down on their mistakes, and Sony's recent string of first-party failures would warrant caution and a rethinking of strategy. It would be stupid to buy MachineGames in that environment. We have seen a lot of stupidity in this industry over the last few years, but it takes time before the results of an industry shift are evident, and companies will never admit that such a shift is taking place.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm inclined to think so as well. Successful companies don't double down on their mistakes, and Sony's recent string of first-party failures would warrant caution and a rethinking of strategy. It would be stupid to buy MachineGames in that environment. We have seen a lot of stupidity in this industry over the last few years, but it takes time before the results of an industry shift are evident, and companies will never admit that such a shift is taking place.

Also, because game development takes so long now, we're not even going to see the projects that Nishino greenlit for another few years. Every game coming out in the next 2-3 years will still be games that were greenlit under the Jim Ryan era.

 

[dgrdsv]

Dunno if Sony is interested in MachineGames but I'm pretty sure that MachineGames after their story with Bethesda and MS wouldn't be interested in Sony.

 

[Negotiator101]

They're not for sale are they?