But its a userbase growing based on the promise of "1st class" treatment without all the noise and clutter that those dirty indies would bring to the marketplace, so just how enticing is the money really going to be if that's the kind of customer MS wants to cultivate? The longer the policy stands, the more toxic it gets.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Nope, it is.
Indies come in every form. They cover every genre AAAs do, every gameplay type, every visual type, every scope, every quality.
To say you don't like "indies" means you don't like all games, period, because indies cover literally every type of game and have a wide range of quality just like AAAs. It's willful ignorance is what you're promoting.
You mean in your clearly comically tiny experience with indies you did not enjoy the ones you played.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
As discussed in the SF5 thread, would it be possible for sony to include the driver in future SDKs?
like if you told them, you were making a fighter, they sent you a sdk with the driver already built in so you didnt even need to worry about it?
TypuyBaran
Banned
This is a discussion board... Right? People share their opinions, right? So I can't share my personal view of indy games? People make this policy out to be the end of the world as in people are getting "hurt" whatever the hell hurt means when it comes to video games. I just wanted to register my opinion that I as an xbox gammer do not feel the hurt. Or are we all supposed to toe the woe is me, feel my hurts line?
It is my personal opinion that there are very very very few indy games even worth the bandwidth it takes to pull them down. Most of it is garbage.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I haven't seen people actively and sincerely defend policies that yield less games since the N64/Gamecube transition. That's how far off the deep end we are.
Veritigo_X
Member
Exactly. People writing off indie games are writing off some great looking games like No Man's Sky or Wild or Vanishing of Ethan Carter or Rime (might be published by SCEA? I'm not sure). It's not all "crappy" 2D games like some posters are thinking.
TypuyBaran
Banned
Sorry... I'll get out. I didn't attack any posters... I just said I have zero interest in indy games.
Handy Fake
Member
Perhaps. But you've absolutely missed the point of the thread. And now you've probably crossed the line into insulting. Ho hum.
TypuyBaran
Banned
We'll have to agree to disagree
You are derailing a thread. No-one is interested in your personal opinion on indies. It's a completely different topic that has nothing to do with personal tastes. Read the OP, it's not worth losing your account over.
You could state your opinion without sounding like a dick. Even so, you can state your own opinion but I can just as well call you out for having a shit opinion as this is a two-way street.
I'm allowed my opinion. I feel that a huge importance is placed on indies, and I've not really seen why this is.
For every great indie game there is that brings something new, there's thousands more which don't do anything new or are cliche. It was my impression that indie games were supposed to be cared for because it's people's chances to create games that aren't big budget etc. And allows creativity to shine through.
I don't see this happening, at least not much, I just don't understand how it is really important. I'm not closed minded, I'm in this for discussion, not for saying my opinion is fact, if anyone takes it that way it's because they're looking to have an argument, which I'm not in here for, I'm here for discussion.
And to the person who thinks I don't understand the purpose of this thread - I do. The point is that Microsofts ruling means that small publishers who don't have the team size, money or time to produce games on multiple machines at one time can't and because of this, aren't allowed to publish on Xbox.
For every great indie game there is that brings something new, there's thousands more which don't do anything new or are cliche. It was my impression that indie games were supposed to be cared for because it's people's chances to create games that aren't big budget etc. And allows creativity to shine through.
I don't see this happening, at least not much, I just don't understand how it is really important. I'm not closed minded, I'm in this for discussion, not for saying my opinion is fact, if anyone takes it that way it's because they're looking to have an argument, which I'm not in here for, I'm here for discussion.
And to the person who thinks I don't understand the purpose of this thread - I do. The point is that Microsofts ruling means that small publishers who don't have the team size, money or time to produce games on multiple machines at one time can't and because of this, aren't allowed to publish on Xbox.
TypuyBaran
Banned
I'll step away... Sorry, was not my intention to derail thread. I though this was a discussion of xbox parity clause and impact on gamers.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Isn't The Forest an indie game as well? And Day Z? And Star Citizen? And Elite: Dangerous?
gaming_noob
Member
I voted on that Xbox poll posted earlier. Make it happen Spencer!
FranXico
Member
I would imagine it to be technically possible to distribute a static library or something to that effect.
The legal consequences, however, could be another matter.
What do you mean "whatever the hell hurt means"? Let me walk you through the process.
I am an indie developer. I am already vulnerable because this market is highly competitive and I have only a few employees and I need a game to make my business financially viable.
Ok, so as a small indie team, I have to decide where I am going to set my priorities. I realize I can only make a single version at a time (not enough money, time or employees to do otherwise), but I want to port it to other platforms as soon as I release the original on whatever platform I chose.
So now we enter this gen. Sony goes around and courts indies everywhere, rolls out the red carpet, and indies start pouring in. Ok! Microsoft decides to not give a fuck for XBO, ignores indies for a long while, even telling some like the devs of Assault Android Cactus that they don't really care about their smaller game.
But vulnerable indie devs need to make a decision, because they need money coming in. So they decide to go with PS4 first, because Sony has made it so easy for them, there's less hurdles and Sony will even let you take the stage with them at hugely important moments.
Ok! But you still want to bring your game to XBO! Oops, you can't. Because Microsoft - realizing they were so behind on indies - decided to implement a hugely damaging policy to prevent PS4 from proliferating a dominant edge is this regard. They put the ID@Xbox parity clause in place, which says if you want to release an indie game on XBO it has to be day and date with PS4 version. They made a few exceptions for indie games announced prior to the clause, but that's long been over.
So now what happens? Indie devs have to make a choice. Either they have to unreasonably stretch their already limited resources and teams to try to make it to XBO (thus potentially damaging the quality of the game, I may note) as well - which simply isn't going to happen in most cases, as we see now - or they have to choose to go to PS4 and cut off a potential revenue stream altogether.
IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIKE INDIES TO REALIZE WHO AND HOW THIS HURTS REAL PEOPLE.
Note that Microsoft's -reason- for going with the ID@Xbox parity clause has been a huge failure. PS4 is not getting less exclusives, it's getting exponentially more exclusives. And XBO-only gamers are getting massively less options to select from.
what a surprise another fan is trying to downplay negative policies on their platform of choice. can you guys PLEASE be less transparent? it's painful at this point.
I don't know why you keep promoting how hilariously ignorant you are on this score, it's not doing you any favors.
Veritigo_X
Member
Indeed they are. I was mainly focusing on PS4 games, but it's good to point out other games that don't fit some people's idea of what an "indie game" is.
Forgot that the Forest is coming to PS4 as well. Love that game, even though it's still really early in development.
OrbitalBeard
Member
This topic is fantastic and I am very grateful to chubigans for creating it. I really hope Microsoft takes a long, hard look at their indie policies.
I honestly cannot believe there are some people in here defending this. Absolutely baffling.
I also am flabbergasted that people in the gaming community still exist that consider indie titles to be throwaway, cheap experiences. It's really about damn time a few of you attempted to expand your horizons. Jesus.
I honestly cannot believe there are some people in here defending this. Absolutely baffling.
I also am flabbergasted that people in the gaming community still exist that consider indie titles to be throwaway, cheap experiences. It's really about damn time a few of you attempted to expand your horizons. Jesus.
Handy Fake
Member
My man.
Not sure what you're getting at with the first class treatment/dirty indie thing lol. I do agree that the landscape will continue to be viewed as toxic and will continue to have an impact on dev decisions either way.
Hellblade by Ninja Theory is also an indie game for what it's worth.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Well said.
Just ignore Open Mouth, he is a known troll and actively sets out to post controversial stuff just to start shit. Don't let him bother you any!
TypuyBaran
Banned
Not going to respond to your personal attacks beyond this post. So I can't have an opinion on the virtues of indy games or you'll call me a fanboy?
That opinion is objectively wrong.
Sucks that you're missing out on some of the best games to come out in recent memory though.
That's really stretching the definition of "indipendent".
Are they free to bring Rime to PC and Xbox? No? Not that indipendent, then.
Veritigo_X
Member
Okay, way to pick apart the one part of my post I mentioned I wasn't sure about. Care to comment on the other games I mentioned?
There is no 'virtue' of indie games. They're a mix of games as wildly diverse as any other, some terrible, some great. Most AAA games are also shit, but nobody says "WHY AINT NOBODY CURATING AAAs." Because people like choice, and they also understand that when talking about them being good they're talking about the cream of the crop. Your position is the (obviously much-less serious) gaming equivalent of hating an entire culture because of the actions of a few.
You're being ignorant, and it's clear the reason you're trying to dismiss how horrific the policy is - and how conveniently you skipped the entire point I was making in what you quoted, as if it wasn't already clear what your intentions are - is because you're a Xbox "gammer." You have a system preference and it's polluting your ability to think this through.
Sorry, i agree with the rest of your post, should've pointed it out.
Some games i'd consider "indie" were my GOTY in years past (Hotline Miami and Super Meat Boy).
Just pointing out a pet peeve there, though the definition of indie itself isn't all that clear to begin with, i think we can rule out games that are owned and published by one big company.
For example i wouldn't consider Rayman Origins, Child of Light or Valiant Hearts indie, despite looking the part.
TypuyBaran
Banned
I resent your characterization of me being an irrational fanboy simply because I see no personal value in indy games. Your continued personal attacks are not appreciated. I have no agenda other then to state not everything that doesn't meet your approval is a humanitarian calamity you make it out to be. Don't buy an xbox.. M
The problem is that you lump thousands of games from different budgets, genres, art styles, countries and team sizes all under the same banner. Some indie teams are ten times the size of others. Some have huge budgets. Some make epic games with no budget. That's why saying 'I don't like indie games' is like saying 'I don't like retail games'. Lots of indie games these days have kickstarter budgets far in excess of what was used to create AAA games in the past. Not to mention how insulting it is to disregard the gems that people (including several gaffers) sweat over for years just because other people slam out shovelware.
It's like discounting all full-price retail titles because you were ignorant enough to buy a few shitty cartoon tie-ins. It's the same format and publisher/developer relationship so they must be the same, right? All that 'indie' refers to these days is the lack of relationship/sponsorship with a publisher. That's it.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
My biggest issue with all this is it seems like the damage, for the large part is already done. Even if the policy was lifted tomorrow, only a percentage of the indies that released on PS4 (that weren't exceptions to this policy) would then finally release on XB1.
and whether we like it or not, late ports really do not sell anywhere near as well generally.
I'm sure there are a few smaller indies who can't publish on more than one platform at a time, but the vast majority being announced over the last few months have no started to include Xb1 versions.
I feel that removing the parity clause would be a massive goodwill gesture, but from a business point of view, im not sure Microsoft is really seeing much benefit from it now. The bridge has already been burned and both Sony and Nintendo have done so much to support devs with marketing, dev tools and multiple platforms to deploy on, im not sure the Xbox one is even really missed.
and whether we like it or not, late ports really do not sell anywhere near as well generally.
I'm sure there are a few smaller indies who can't publish on more than one platform at a time, but the vast majority being announced over the last few months have no started to include Xb1 versions.
I feel that removing the parity clause would be a massive goodwill gesture, but from a business point of view, im not sure Microsoft is really seeing much benefit from it now. The bridge has already been burned and both Sony and Nintendo have done so much to support devs with marketing, dev tools and multiple platforms to deploy on, im not sure the Xbox one is even really missed.
Goodacre0081
Member
so did anyone from MS ever comment on the thread?
unbelievable, simply unbelievable.
at this rate if you miss the point any harder it's going to cause an Earthquake
JackLongRod
Banned
Is open mouth being sarcastic or is he really shitting up the threads and doubling down on tales from the ass? I can't tell
TypuyBaran
Banned
Why don't you call me a name again... Maybe it will stop the earthquake
WHAT NAME? Jesus christ. It's a label defining what you factually are, which even you admitted. And all I said was that you were a FAN with a SYSTEM PREFERENCE who is displaying WILLFUL IGNORANCE.
What in God's name are you talking about? Trying to make it like you're being persecuted does not hide how hard you're dodging the points people are making.
That's a good comparison.
Damn so many defenders for something so indefensible. That you hate indies is no reason for this policy to exist you know.
On the one hand if the policy worked exactly as intended and xbone got indie games day and date with PS4, that wouldn't matter to you because remember YOU HATE INDIES. If this policy was gone and MS suddenly got lots of indies but later, it couldn't matter less to you because you will go on continuing to HATE INDIES.
So ask yourselves loyal defenders why are you in this thread discussing a policy that you are nothing but completely indifferent to? Who is truly here because of list wars?
On the one hand if the policy worked exactly as intended and xbone got indie games day and date with PS4, that wouldn't matter to you because remember YOU HATE INDIES. If this policy was gone and MS suddenly got lots of indies but later, it couldn't matter less to you because you will go on continuing to HATE INDIES.
So ask yourselves loyal defenders why are you in this thread discussing a policy that you are nothing but completely indifferent to? Who is truly here because of list wars?
Just give it a rest. If he cant see that there are many good indie games and just lumps them together due to ignorance, its his loss.
FairXchange
Member
In a world where we get yearly rehashes of stale franchises, you better pray that indie games continue to flourish and innovate at the rate they are.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I don't see any name calling in his posts. If you really believe that indies hold no value, you are ignorant. That's such a ridiculous belief to hold. It's almost disgusting, in all honesty.
Also, why the hell do some people refer to them as "indy"? It's indie. This has nothing to do with Harrison Ford.
Edit - Haunted lol!!
TypuyBaran
Banned
You dismissed my opinion as wrong attaching a derogatory fanboy label because I have a system preference, insinuating that I am simply spinning to cover for the sins of Microsoft. When in fact I just don't care about indy games... In your mind you can't understand that.
This can't be real. :/