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[Faustek]

Yeah, it's just for consoles. Many if not all of the games brought up in this thread have been PC releases first and foremost. The 3DS sounds like it's not effected by this but I guess the Vita can be because those versions usually have some sort of crossover with the PS3/4.

Thanks, yeah did not consider the PC part it was just seeing as MS indie child(OatBF) was getting a same day release as PC.

Sign me up as a concerned publisher as well.

At PLAYISM, we are starting from this year to bring some of our higher qualityJapanese indie games to consoles on top of our PC releases.

Now, we have been in talks with Microsoft Japan and are hoping to get some wiggle room for our content. But yeah, right now we have about 6 games announced for PS platforms, and nothing for Xbox One.

Some of our developers want to support both platforms, but the current situation just makes that very difficult.

And it is even harder as the local market is obviously something very important to them, and with the sales of Xbox One in Japan it makes it even harder to justify supporting the platform from their perspective.

Off topic again: Hi Josh, do me two favours will ya?
First high five Nayan and yourself for me, will ya?
Second, I know you guys published the western release of Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae and was wondering if you had part of that PS4 retail release I've seen floating around
I need it in my veins ^^

You know what we could do? Just ignore the next post that does that. Keep the thread civil and on topic because we're burning pages just banging our heads against the wall. Generally this has been a fantastic thread.

 

[Amir0x]

So are MS shills trying to stop all the negativity with telling everyone how shitty indie games are now or why do some juniors suddenly voice this opinion so loudly when it adds nothing to the discussion?


I think it is weird that people still can't realize how bad this clause is. It would be even worse if it would work for MS.

wait until bish sees these last few pages is all I can say

 

[rokkerkory]

X1 has no games?

 

[ThingontheFloor]

The idea that a game can only be legitimized or worth playing if released through a major publisher is really confusing. It’s simply lumping in way too many games for that mindset to make sense!

 

[curb]

I have issues with certain policies Xbox One had, of which this is the sole remaining big blip on my radar. As soon as it's resolved, I can buy an XBO.

I really find it so interesting how willing they were to reverse some very fundamental policies like the DRM yet are digging their heels in so much over this one.

 

[mrklaw]

This is a discussion board... Right? People share their opinions, right? So I can't share my personal view of indy games? People make this policy out to be the end of the world as in people are getting "hurt" whatever the hell hurt means when it comes to video games. I just wanted to register my opinion that I as an xbox gammer do not feel the hurt. Or are we all supposed to toe the woe is me, feel my hurts line?

It is my personal opinion that there are very very very few indy games even worth the bandwidth it takes to pull them down. Most of it is garbage.

This is a thread about a policy restricting development freedom. It isn't a thread called 'do you like indie games' or 'are indie games good'. So yes, it is a discussion thread but your comments are entirely off topic. More than that, you surely can't be ignorant enough to not realise in the context of the thread topic your comments are almost trolling? You're either an idiot or deliberately trolling a thread, and I have to assume you aren't deliberately trolling, so..

 

[Montresor]

wait until bish sees these last few pages is all I can say

People are allowed to think indie games are shitty. You can disagree with them. What exactly will bish see in the last few pages, other than Amirox and some juniors disagreeing with each other?

 

[RulkezX]

It's just weird trying to paint all indie games under one banner with the "indies are shit" nonsense.

Indies incorporate every genre known plus a few that likely defy categorisation. Saying you hate all indies is just....fucking weird.

This is a discussion board... Right? People share their opinions, right? So I can't share my personal view of indy games? People make this policy out to be the end of the world as in people are getting "hurt" whatever the hell hurt means when it comes to video games. I just wanted to register my opinion that I as an xbox gammer do not feel the hurt. Or are we all supposed to toe the woe is me, feel my hurts line?

It is my personal opinion that there are very very very few indy games even worth the bandwidth it takes to pull them down. Most of it is garbage.

It's coming across as trolling or someone doing mental gymnastics to defend their platform of choice. The thread is about how MS's policy is stifling indies compared to the PS4, not if indies are any good.


It's a weird position to take anyway given how big a part of the 360 XBLA was and how big a push MS used to give them with summer of arcade etc.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I was going to say the xbox gamers have adpoted Microsofts vision with the XB1 and indie games and often insult the PlayStation 4 by calling it the indie station and saying it has no games. Would a vast majority on the Xbox One even care to buy indie games?

I've put this very point to many people on other forums over the last few months. If you were an Indie and you saw a huge chunk of your potential market disparaging the very thing you make, would you be inclined to support them or would you consider it a financial risk? The XB1 community on many sites do not understand the implications of their ongoing and persistent panning of Indies. Couple that with the Parity clause and you have a disaster in terms of content for MS going forward.

The argument has gotten so stupid now that the very word 'Indie' means 'bad game'. Anything Indie that isn't bad or demonstrates clearly that they're often as accomplished as AAA is automatically removed from the list and no longer considered an Indie, which in turn helps cement the notion that 'Indie' means 'bad game'. Even when you examine that reduced list (which tends to end up containing 8-bit graphics) there are still Indie games that stand out as excellent, like FEZ for instance.

MS are killing their future lineup and their fans are doing their best to make sure they kill them forever.

 

[Night Angel]

People are allowed to think indie games are shitty. You can disagree with them. What exactly will bish see in the last few pages, other than Amirox and some juniors disagreeing with each other?

He will see idiots posting things completely irrelevant to the topic at hand in an attempt to derail the thread and divert discussion from the issues the thread was created to discuss.

 

[Compbros]

People are allowed to think indie games are shitty. You can disagree with them. What exactly will bish see in the last few pages, other than Amirox and some juniors disagreeing with each other?

People are allowed to think indie games in shitty if it's relevant to the topic, this thread is about how the ID@Xbox policy hurts Xbox and indies. Then people came in with "what's it matter because indies are shit anyway" when that's not the point of the thread.

I've put this very point to many people on other forums over the last few months. If you were an Indie and you saw a huge chunk of your potential market disparaging the very thing you make, would you be inclined to support them or would you consider it a financial risk? The XB1 community on many sites do not understand the implications of their ongoing and persistent panning of Indies. Couple that with the Parity clause and you have a disaster in terms of content for MS going forward.

Vocal minority. Even if there's 5,000 posters saying they hate indies or what have you there's still 6 million more potential buyers out there.

 

[mrklaw]

People are allowed to think indie games are shitty. You can disagree with them. What exactly will bish see in the last few pages, other than Amirox and some juniors disagreeing with each other?

He'll see people posting entirely off topic, thread shitting posts and then sticking by them. The kinds of posts that had people banned earlier in the thread.

Of course people can think what they like. I might think indie games are the shittest thing ever to have been shat out, but that doesn't make MS bullying tactics right. (I don't)

 

[Handy Fake]

He will see idiots posting things completely irrelevant to the topic at hand in an attempt to derail the thread and divert discussion from the issues the thread was created to discuss.

I can't believe people are still incapable of seeing this. It's starting to hurt my soul. My soul.

 

[Amir0x]

People are allowed to think indie games are shitty. You can disagree with them. What exactly will bish see in the last few pages, other than Amirox and some juniors disagreeing with each other?

People are allowed to be willfully ignorant, they're not allowed to troll a topic with consistent misleading and misdirected arguments that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[mrklaw]

You know what we could do? Just ignore the next post that does that. Keep the thread civil and on topic because we're burning pages just banging our heads against the wall. Generally this has been a fantastic thread.

 

[J-Tier]

So there are people outside of IGN youtube comments who believe that "indie" is a game genre.

On topic, hopefully this topic rustles some jimmies over at Microsoft. They really need to do something, this is one of the last things that's really holding them back.

 

[Amir0x]

You know what we could do? Just ignore the next post that does that. Keep the thread civil and on topic because we're burning pages just banging our heads against the wall. Generally this has been a fantastic thread.

true.

I will readily admit this whole subject makes me angry, because I have many many friends who are indie developers. I know the hardships they go through. I know how passionate they are, how much they love games. I know just how many amazing titles they've made, how often they've made better products than developers with budgets 80 times the size.

And to hear people so readily dismiss "all indies" - as if it were a genre instead of just another wildly diverse group of games - and to try to use that indie hatred to selfishly proclaim how little they care that indie developers are hurt... well, it's enough to make anyone a bit angry.

 

[FX-GMC]

As an Xbox One owner, Microsoft needs to do what is best for me the customer and allow developers to make their games available on their own schedule.

I'd rather have the games late then never have them at all (my backlog can keep me occupied while I wait).

Ridiculous policy.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

L it simply doesn't effect me in large part because of my poor experience with just about every indy game I tried

Okay. I can't ignore the urge to ask any longer. What indie games have you played? In the interest of fairness, please give as detailed a list as possible. You could even go one better and provide some constructive criticism.

Do that and I think most people will move on.

I mean we all share opinions here... No? Not once did I say this policy should be enforced or that people who like indy games suck... For the record.

When you lump together a widely diverse range of games for no apparent reason other than the fact that they are not associated with a major publisher and call them, and I quote, "complete shit", you invite a shitstorm on yourself.

 

[Montresor]

People are allowed to be willfully ignorant, they're not allowed to troll a topic with consistent misleading and misdirected arguments that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

At least when it comes to TypuyBaran, I don't think he's trolling and intentionally posting misleading arguments. I think he's simply someone who decided "I'll throw my two cents in - this thread has two premises: The first is that the policy hurts indies. The second is that the policy hurts XB1 gamers. It doesn't hurt me because I don't give a shit about indie games - they are horrible in my eyes."

And that's a view point that lacks empathy, and is very selfish, but it's not ban-worthy. I really don't think it's a big deal that he hates indie games. But I will concede that he is ignoring one of the two important premises of this thread. He is addressing one premise of the thread (the policy hurts gamers), but he is ignoring the primary premise of the thread (the policy hurts indie devs).

 

[Amir0x]

At least when it comes to TypuyBaran, I don't think he's trolling and intentionally posting misleading arguments. I think he's simply someone who decided "I'll throw my two cents in - this thread has two premises: The first is that the policy hurts indies. The second is that the policy hurts XB1 gamers. It doesn't hurt me because I don't give a shit about indie games - they are horrible in my eyes."

And that's a view point that lacks empathy, and is very selfish, but it's not ban-worthy. I really don't think it's a big deal that he hates indie games. But I will concede that he is ignoring one of the two important premises of this thread. He is addressing one premise of the thread (the policy hurts gamers), but he is ignoring the primary premise of the thread (the policy hurts indie devs).

I'm not going to continue to discuss this because it's against the TOS, but I will just point to what happened earlier in this topic.

To his indie points, there's nothing left to be said. He's wrong, he's willfully ignorant, and he's straight up offensive at other points.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Everything...EVERYTHING..you've just said can be equally applied to AAA games. So it's essentially a moot point.

I'd actually go further than say it applies, I'd say it applies more.

Indie games are more likely to try something new and different, not less.

 

[see5harp]

Dismissing indies is idiotic, we established that within 10 pages. Only an idiot would say they don't want a port of Below or No Mans Sky.

 

[BriGuy]

So are MS shills trying to stop all the negativity with telling everyone how shitty indie games are now or why do some juniors suddenly voice this opinion so loudly when it adds nothing to the discussion?


I think it is weird that people still can't realize how bad this clause is. It would be even worse if it would work for MS.

For some people, it's less about the video games and more about rooting for your favorite team. Regardless of how you might personally feel about them, indie titles are an asset to your system and the industry as a whole. You lose nothing by having them available to you, even if they don't grace your system of choice on day one.

 

[cakely]

...

You are a god-tier troll, sir. You hit this thread like a flurry of uppercuts.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I just had to throw away my KFC snack box because of how vomit inducing some of these posts against indies are.

Hope y'all are happy.

 

[Amentallica]

Some of you are really naive (and stupid) if you think some major studios didn't start from a small firm.

 

[Hollow]

I just had to throw away my KFC snack box because of how vomit inducing some of these posts against indies are.

Hope y'all are happy.

What a waste.

 

[bishoptl]

No they aren't. Coming in here to post that you hate or love indies has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Good for warming up the chainsaw on a cold and rainy December morn, however.

 

[Rymuth]

I just had to throw away my KFC snack box because of how vomit inducing some of these posts against indies are.

Hope y'all are happy.

Now you got me hankering for some KFC.

But honestly, it's an attitude that's gotten some real traction lately and Phil Spencer isnt helping with his 'first class' talk...it fosters the narrative that there is a form of quality control going on with ID@Box. Anything that doesnt make the cut is garbage.

 

[Rockyrock]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

 

[Amir0x]

i told ya'll

 

[Handy Fake]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

 

[see5harp]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

I would rather have 3-5 amazing games PLUS the 40 games that may or may not be good.

 

[TAJ]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

You have no idea what they are, but you know they wouldn't interest you?

 

[Hollow]

Personal preference, no matter how ignorant, has no bearing on this subject.

I don't like olives but that doesn't mean bars should stop serving martinis.

This is about Microsoft's poor political policy essentially removing options from their players when it comes to games available on their system.

 

[Faustek]

Off Topic:

Is this a scenario where you say his name 3 times and he'll come?

On Topic:
I asked a few pages back if the reason for MS <heels in the ground> stance on this is that the various game engines out there that are usually more popular with smaller devs was not yet made compatible with the Xbox?
And assuming that they finally managed to get *all* working with the Xbox now they are not expecting anything to happen before next year that could swing in favour of their drawn out *game plan*?

It's not like they are actually getting much negative PR about this. Enough people truly fall for the "first class" skit. smh
EDIT: Or doesn't care, perhaps because they don't know

 

[xxracerxx]

Holy hell there has been some shit posts in this thread since I went to bed.

Yikes.

 

[Amir0x]

Holy hell there has been some shit posts in this thread since I went to bed.

Yikes.

it's always concerned first class citizen posters too for some reason

 

[Mihos]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

This thread isn't about you and your gaming taste. It is about the developers and reaching their customers (which obviously doesn't include you). It is like your walking into the middle of a labor dispute at McDonalds and telling the strikers you like Burger King better anyway.

The intention of the parity clause was to make Xbox the lead platform for smaller game developers (if not out right exclusivity)... not only did it not work, but it is actively hostile towards the same people they were trying to court. Nothing good is coming of this for anyone. Funniest part of all the drive by 'Indie' bashers is if MS would have gotten their way, they would have been the exclusive home to most of those games they hate so much.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

Jesus, did you not read two posts above yours? This isn't a topic about whether or not people like indie games, so what in the hell are you responding to?

Anyway, it's this same toxic attitude towards indie games that we see all the time in PS Plus threads. It's one of the most frustrating things to see nowadays across the games community, and one can only hope that it's something that will die down as time goes on.

 

[curb]

Off Topic:

Is this a scenario where you say his name 3 times and he'll come?

 

[Night Angel]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

Yeah, man. Think of all the money MS is saving for their first party development because they are keeping indies from developing their own games using their own money on XB1. Thank you, based Phil. I believe in Phil Spencer.

Spoiler

If you need someone to tell you that game development isn't a zero-sum game, I don't even.

 

[Mengy]

On Topic:
I asked a few pages back if the reason for MS <heels in the ground> stance on this is that the various game engines out there that are usually more popular with smaller devs was not yet made compatible with the Xbox?
And assuming that they finally managed to get *all* working with the Xbox now they are not expecting anything to happen before next year that could swing in favour of their drawn out *game plan*?

It's not like they are actually getting much negative PR about this. Enough people truly fall for the "first class" skit. smh

I think it's much simpler than that. MS had market dominance with the Xbox 360 and it gave them an inflated ego going into the X1. Just look at all of the bad original policies with the X1 that were 180° on before launch. They got cocky and had to back down some from their ivory tower when the backlash hit.

This parity policy is just a holdover from that cocky period that didn't get reversed. And now it's starting to hurt them. There isn't any negative PR because it's just not as visible as "online only" or "always kinected" and such. Chub's OP proves however that is IS hurting them, and not helping in any meaningful way.

MS should get rid of it, preferably sooner than later.

 

[gruenel]

haven't heard a single one of those games tbh.

Would much rather have 3-5 amazing games than 40 games that wouldn't hold my interest for more than a few hours, but that's just me.

2 posts after bish cleaned up here

you got some balls son

 

[watership]

So are MS shills trying to stop all the negativity with telling everyone how shitty indie games are now or why do some juniors suddenly voice this opinion so loudly when it adds nothing to the discussion?


I think it is weird that people still can't realize how bad this clause is. It would be even worse if it would work for MS.

Is MS shills and MS apologist the same thing now? Meaning, are you just really saying apologists? The results here are the same, but I wanna know if people still think MS has a huge task force of forum spies out to change our opinions.

 

[Ricky_R]

Go Indies!!!

 

[nampad]

Has the press picked up the discussion yet? Can't be good for Microsoft when this gets more attention. Don't think they can keep up this clause if the media starts pointing to it more though they should have done that a long time ago.

To be honest, I am surprised they still are trying to keep the clause afloat. They should have noticed the disparity in indie releases long before this thread if they are doing their jobs and as people mentioned, the clause only hurts them right now.
It would have only worked if they were leading against Sony or more or less even in sales, not when there is a big disparity in Sony's favor.

 

[Faustek]

I think it's much simpler than that. MS had market dominance with the Xbox 360 and it gave them an inflated ego going into the X1. Just look at all of the bad original policies with the X1 that were 180° on before launch. They got cocky and had to back down some from their ivory tower when the backlash hit.

This parity policy is just a holdover from that cocky period that didn't get reversed. And now it's starting to hurt them. There isn't any negative PR because it's just not as visible as "online only" or "always kinected" and such. Chub's OP proves however that is IS hurting them, and not helping in any meaningful way.

MS should get rid of it, preferably sooner than later.

Will take that under consideration and hope it's just that simple instead of the long haul that will still damage everyone involved :/

And thanks curb, that made me laugh

 

[curb]

And thanks curb, that made me laugh

No problo, Rob Lowe. I rarely pass up the opportunity to use a Community or 30 Rock gif.