Support NeoGAF

[Salvor.Hardin]

720.

mort having some fun here.

lol. This is not going to end well.

 

[Raist]

Are these the most feared words on gaming side right now?

Check your PMs.

 

[Nags]

The folks at Xbox fan sites are hoping CODOG is 1080p just to see NeoGAF get put in it's place! This is getting scary!

Well I hope it is too, but not for that reason. This console war has gotten ugly, lol.
But I like watching the world burn.

 

[Radec]

 

[SwiftDeath]

Ah launch is such a fine time to be on gaf

 

[RetroStu]

Like I said, the meltdowns will be glorious.

Ironically there would be far more meltdowns if the game was actually 1080p rather than 720p, on here anyway.

 

[Demon Ice]

Thus surprising absolutely...nobody.

 

[Chamber]

Check your PMs.

 

[Demon Ice]

I don't know what the Xbox One resolution of BF4 is... but if it isn't 1080p it's not going to be the same as the ps4 version - or so I hear.

:O :O :O

 

[antitrop]

Ironically there would be far more meltdowns if the game was actually 1080p rather than 720p, on here anyway.

This is true.

 

[Y2Kev]

720.

mort having some fun here.

I will cancel my preorder.

 

[Kagari]

All right guys, nothing to see here. It was just a misunderstanding.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I will cancel my preorder.

But the PS4 COD is so much than the XB1 COD

 

[Flunkie]

I told myself I was gonna be productive today. Dammit.

 

[prwxv3]

About BF4... DICE doesn't fuck around with hardware. They are serious about tech. They wouldn't hamstring a game and....

About EA... They are backtracking quite a bit lately on their relationship with Microsoft and keep mentioning that they are platform agnostic. They aren't stupid, they see the projections and they like money.


Again, I don't have the slightest clue what BF4 is like on the xbox one. But I am confident about the two statements above. The whole "forced parity" thing has been paranoia from the start.

oh boy maybe titanfall will come out sooner on PS4 then one year.

 

[stryke]

I told myself I was gonna be productive today. Dammit.

Story of my life.

 

[Raist]

All right guys, nothing to see here. It was just a misunderstanding.

Aw. But Bish won't come out his bunker. People need their daily blood.

 

[Beer Monkey]

oh boy maybe titanfall will come out sooner on PS4 then one year.

Contracts, how do they work?

 

[Kagari]

Aw. But Bish won't come out his bunker. People need their daily blood.

Or... you know, if people are talked to and realize their mistakes/misunderstandings then there doesn't have to be blood. It becomes a learning experience.

 

[Klocker]

He said he asked his MS friend what the res was, and he told him, "you don't need to know". That is a good friend. Seriously, it makes Albert's job a lot easier if he remains uninformed.

Its called being confidential with 3rd party information. There needs to be a separation of the two or it could be considered a breach of confidentiality

But of course it has to all be a deception/cover up and not good old fashioned integrity

 

[Y2Kev]

But the PS4 COD is so much than the XB1 COD

We are talking about bf4!

 

[Shadow2222]

Or... you know, if people are talked to and realize their mistakes/misunderstandings then there doesn't have to be blood. It becomes a learning experience.

No, no, we definitely need blood.


In, all seriousness, I'm glad GAF isn't "Guilty before being proven Innocent."

We are talking about bf4!

I think he is saying that at least COD is one game that is better on PS4, even if Battlefield isn't.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Its called being confidential with 3rd party information. There needs to be a separation of the two or it could be considered a breach of confidentiality

But of course it has to all be a deception/cover up and not good old fashioned integrity

While this could certainly be the case, it seems odd Sony's 3rd party relations person can release the resolution info obviously with Activision's permission but MS's can't

We are talking about bf4!

Haha yeah I briefly forgot. Although I guess that works in both instances doesn't it?

 

[Raist]

Or... you know, if people are talked to and realize their mistakes/misunderstandings then there doesn't have to be blood. It becomes a learning experience.

S'aight. I was joking

 

[Micromegas]

With COD being the number one franchise on the 360, I do wonder how this plays out in the real world. If the hardcore CODheads migrate to the PS4, or what % of them do. COD is a huge franchise, you'd think a disparity (large or small) is going to make a difference for the core audience that wants "the best."

This may be a non-trivial amount of people.

 

[SwiftDeath]

With COD being the number one franchise on the 360, I do wonder how this plays out in the real world. If the hardcore CODheads migrate to the PS4, or what % of them do. COD is a huge franchise, you'd think a disparity (large or small) is going to make a difference for the core audience that wants "the best."

This may be a non-trivial amount of people.

I think the mindshare that Xbox controllers are better than PS controllers might stay that shift a bit. The Softcore as it were are likely to still believe the XB controller is quantitatively better even if its always been a qualitative comparison at best.

Could always be wrong about that though but they are the types to buy customized controllers and such

 

[todahawk]

Its called being confidential with 3rd party information. There needs to be a separation of the two or it could be considered a breach of confidentiality

But of course it has to all be a deception/cover up and not good old fashioned integrity

Yes, brother, speak it. Native resolution is highly, highly sensitive info and should be protected at all costs. /s

from the other thread...

*snip*
. Let’s put this to bed.

Here’s a fact that will blow your mind.

The guy that runs 3rd party relations for Xbox is one of my best friends. And we have to play this information game all the time. He has the utmost respect for the confidentiality of partner details. So I did call him and ask him, and he told me very directly “You don’t need to know”

End of conversation. End of speculation.

Nobody at MS will comment on this. Most people don’t know. This is Activision’s product, and it’s completely up to them on how/when they want to show this product, why they choose to roll-out their game in a certain way, and what platforms they choose to show on.

*snip*

Complete and utter bullshit... All this is is plausible deniability. Microsoft has a bit of stake in this particular release and to say it's "Activision's product, and it's completely up to them" is insulting. Al shouldn't have said anything at all... these non-answers help nothing.

 

[Micromegas]

I think the mindshare that Xbox controllers are better than PS controllers might stay that shift a bit. The Softcore as it were are likely to still believe the XB controller is quantitatively better even if its always been a qualitative comparison at best.

That's an excellent point.

 

[J-P]

While this could certainly be the case, it seems odd Sony's 3rd party relations person can release the resolution info obviously with Activision's permission but MS's can't



Haha yeah I briefly forgot. Although I guess that works in both instances doesn't it?

Probably because we're talking BF4 in the COD thread, but that might actually be my fault. Pretty sure if the resolution was 1080P the answer wouldn't be "you don't need to know"

 

[crazygambit]

Contracts, how do they work?

Exactly. We have no idea how the timed exclusivity contract for Titanfall works, there may well be provisions for certain amount of console sales before launch to maintain it, or a lot of other stuff we're not privy to.

 

[antitrop]

Pretty sure if the resolution was 1080P the answer wouldn't be "you don't need to know"

Nope, it would be "1080p/60fps! The fantastic Call of Duty experience you've come to expect on Xbox!".

But nope... it's "you don't need to know". (Which sounds more like "You don't want to know")


Heh. It's not 1080p.

 

[crazygambit]

Complete and utter bullshit... All this is is plausible deniability. Microsoft has a bit of stake in this particular release and to say it's "Activision's product, and it's completely up to them" is insulting. Al shouldn't have said anything at all... these non-answers help nothing.

No it isn't. That he doesn't need to know, means that at this point in time that information is confidential and he doesn't have (thus need) access to it. I work with confidential information all the time and these types of chinese walls between different departments of a corporation are very common.

 

[SwiftDeath]

No it isn't. That he doesn't need to know, means that at this point in time that information is confidential and he doesn't have (thus need) access to it. I work with confidential information all the time and these types of chinese walls between different departments of a corporation are very common.

Right so why can't the 3rd Party relations person tell us then? Because someone somewhere doesn't want it to be said whereas Activision were more than willing to let Sony state their resolution.

 

[coldfoot]

Do we have any info on the hardware upscaler in PS4?

They are both using the same AMD 7000 scaling/output units most likely.

 

[bigboss370]

People much smarter than me point to the eSRAM as being difficult to work with at higher resolutions. Also, yes, Microsoft's tools showed up later than the PS4's and are more difficult to work with. There's a quote from over the summer from some anonymous dev saying that we were going to see resolution differences in games like CoD because of eSRAM.


CBoaT seems to be of the opinion that it will be ironed out over time. Much like the Cell in the PS3 was a nightmare to work with and multiplats suffered... devs finally figured out how to optimize code for it and there was more parity. I agree with boat, I think this will happen with eSRAM and quicker as it's not nearly as convoluted as working with the Cell is.


The Xbox One as a piece of hardware is better than what we will see at launch. The games will get better. The tools will mature. Developers will learn tricks to maximize the eSRAM. The problem for Microsoft is that while developers are figuring out those quirks of the system they will also be learning how to maximize the PS4. It's going to be a constant game of catch up that they can't win. But the idea that games like CoD will be 720p the entire gen is silly... it will get optimized, as will most games. It just takes a bit more work.


Cerny's "time to triangle" thing isn't bullshit. The PS4 is very easy to develop for. That's one of the reasons we will see a big gap at launch.

problem for MS, according to CBOAT, is that even when the tools mature and development gets easier, they still won't be able to hit 1080p, 720-900 will be the norm.

also i recall in a tech thread from a couple months ago, people knowledgeable about this stuff have said the architecture of the PS4 leaves it more potential for growth over time than X1...

its like a perfect storm in favor of PS4...


that being said, I will still be shocked as hell if both COD and BF4 are 1080p on PS4 but not on X1.

 

[SwiftDeath]

problem for MS, according to CBOAT, is that even when the tools mature and development gets easier, they still won't be able to hit 1080p, 720-900 will be the norm.

also i recall in a tech thread from a couple months ago, people knowledgeable about this stuff have said the architecture of the PS4 leaves it more potential for growth over time than X1...

its like a perfect storm in favor of PS4...


that being said, I will still be shocked as hell if both COD and BF4 are 1080p on PS4 but not on X1.

That's not entirely true the XB1 can hit 1080P native as some launch games do show, the problem is likely that the ESram 32mb size does not play well with some of the new buffering techniques. I believe differed rendering specifically? Where the buffers can easily outpace 32mb

 

[dark10x]

I have a question: If you have a 720p game, how does it upscale the textures to 1080p? How do they create 1080p assets from a 720p game? I've often wondered this when the topic of upscaling is brought up. If it looks better, how the the hell does it achieve it!?

Everything on screen is independent from resolution. Obviously, if you run at a higher resolution then it will be easier to notice lower resolution textures, but that's really it.

Look at the PC, for instance, where you can run any game at whatever resolution you choose.

 

[ICPEE]

2 things:

1) MS secretly knows the game is 1080p native and is using this 720p debate to get more exposure for the Xbox One

OR

2) They know its running below 1080p and is trying to protect game sales and the Xbox One brand by refusing to disclose the resolution to the public for as long as they can.

It can be either one of the above two. This 720p debate is certainly escalating and it would be an epic meltdown if the game does indeed end up being 720p but the longer this goes on the more i am inclined to believe that its point number 2.

 

[Micromegas]

2 things:

1) MS secretly knows the game is 1080p native and is using this 720p debate to get more exposure for the Xbox One

OR

2) They know its running below 1080p and is trying to protect game sales and the Xbox One brand by refusing to disclose the resolution to the public for as long as they can.

It can be either one of the above two. This 720p debate is certainly escalating and it would be an epic meltdown if the game does indeed end up being 720p but the longer this goes on the more i am inclined to believe that its point number 2.

1) I know the saying, "there is no such thing as bad press," but sheesh. It's been a cataclysmic landslide of shit on MS lately.

2) The backlash would bury them. Best to come clean now or prepare the bunkers for Holiday '13.

 

[jett]

I took this screenshot and downscaled it to 1600x900 then upscaled it again to 1080 with Lanczos algorithm. This is the result. Try to save both and alternate between them. The second is more blurry, of course, but I bet it would be almost impossible to notice in movement and after applying some filters. I would probably fail a blind test on those and I sit very close to my 32" display. Remember that all first-hand reports are from gaming shows where lighting conditions aren't really good, people just have a few minutes to soak in everything and nobody is pixel counting.

Why wouldn't devs use it? HUD and text in general would suffer the most, as well as tiny elements of graphics (which is why high res is so important in a game like BF). X1 has display planes and can overlay 1080p HUD over any resolution. Can PS4 do that? I have no idea. I also don't know anything about hardware scalers in both. Also devs are usually ambitious people. If hardware allows 1080p and it's along their design of the game then why not have the best IQ possible?

The shit? This is disingenuous.

 

[bigboss370]

That's not entirely true the XB1 can hit 1080P native as some launch games do show, the problem is likely that the ESram 32mb size does not play well with some of the new buffering techniques. I believe differed rendering specifically? Where the buffers can easily outpace 32mb

oh i know, cboat has said 1080p was the exception though, not the rule. I think its going to depend like you said on the graphical techniques used.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Since this thread has taken on a BF4 slant, this seems relevant from another thread where Gies is having a senselessly cryptic twitter conversation (About BF4 and the reasons for not seeing Xb1 reviews for a while, the latter have zero actual substance). Take it for what you will. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87458884#post87458884)

@aegies Have you seen/played the same game on both XB1 and PS4? If so, any major differences?

@S0mewh4tD4m4ged yes, and not major, in my opinion. there were differences though.

 

[Effect]

Any word on what the Wii U version is running at?

 

[Demon Ice]

I took this screenshot and downscaled it to 1600x900 then upscaled it again to 1080 with Lanczos algorithm. This is the result. ?

So you took an original 1080p render, downscaled it, and then upscaled it again.

Does that sound like what the XB1 is going to be doing? You think the console is going to be rendering a native 1080p frame, then downscaling it to 900p for no reason, and then upscaling it back to 1080p?

Lol no.

Take a native 900p image and upscale it to 1080p and post the difference.

 

[Tookay]

With COD being the number one franchise on the 360, I do wonder how this plays out in the real world. If the hardcore CODheads migrate to the PS4, or what % of them do. COD is a huge franchise, you'd think a disparity (large or small) is going to make a difference for the core audience that wants "the best."

This may be a non-trivial amount of people.

I think the amount of COD players who care about 1080p is more trivial than you might expect in comparison to other factors.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Its called being confidential with 3rd party information. There needs to be a separation of the two or it could be considered a breach of confidentiality

But of course it has to all be a deception/cover up and not good old fashioned integrity

If native resolution is some confidential secret, then why was Albert privy to live footage of the game? There are a lot of people who could tell if it was native 1080P just by looking at it. That's like showing a toddler 5 cookies, but he doesn't know how to count and you're not gonna tell him.

 

[Iacobellis]

I don't know what the Xbox One resolution of BF4 is... but if it isn't 1080p it's not going to be the same as the ps4 version - or so I hear.

Holy shit... So beautiful 60FPS BF4 is 1080p on PS4???

 

[SwiftDeath]

Since this thread has taken on a BF4 slant, this seems relevant from another thread where Gies is having a senselessly cryptic twitter conversation (About BF4 and the reasons for not seeing Xb1 reviews for a while, the latter have zero actual substance). Take it for what you will. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87458884#post87458884)

Ha if the XB1 version of the comparisons had been better you can bet gies would have said

Guess that means in the comparisons he saw the PS4 version was noticeably better

All right maybe that last part is a bit of a logical leap

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Any word on what the Wii U version is running at?

It runs at an unprecedented 0p/0fps.

 

[Iacobellis]

All right guys, nothing to see here. It was just a misunderstanding.

So is Mort right?