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[zomgbbqftw]

Except that would require of them to change memory controller, which is inside norhtbridge, which is inside APU. Making changes inside APU is a very risky business. I dont know of any console that had changes inside its main chip ahitecture after it was released.

X360 simplified its motherboard by moving several chips onto one chip socket, but every chip remained the same. Bringing of X360 CPU and GPU closer toghether messed up communication timings between them, so MS added throttling between them so that perfect compatibility can be retained.

Yes, they will have to be very careful if they make a change like that. The downside if they don't make the change is that DDR3 is not going to get cheaper, it is already at base cost. The reason monolithic 8Gbit GDDR5 chips make sense is because there is demand for them outside of Sony. Nvidia's board partners are probably salivating at the thought of 16GB graphics cards and I'm sure Nvidia themselves will be happy to get 8GB reference cards for Maxwell on a 256bit bus. That kind of demand for low bandwidth RAM doesn't exist, which means the market is going to transition to DDR4 sooner rather than later and Microsoft will have to make the move as well.

Also, I know that DDR3 and GDDR5 chips are physically the same, it's just that selling the chips as GDDR5 gives Samsung and Hynix a far greater ROI. 8x 8Gbit DDR3 chips would be more costly than 16x 4Gbit DDR3 chips (no one would buy them) but 8x 8Gbit GDDR5 chips would start off around the same cost as 16x 4Gbit GDDR5 and over time they would go down in cost, and by around 2016/17 Sony will have to look moving to the new GDDR standard that comes with DDR4 or they will have to bear cost rises as GDDR5 demand decreases.

Because both console manufacturers have gone in at 16 of the most dense chips available on the very latest technologies that are close to being EOL'd, it will mean they both have to look at changing their APU mid-generation. Sony will just have to do it a bit later.

The problem for MS is that they couldn't wait for 8Gbit DDR4 chips to mature as that would take them deep into 2014. There would have been immediate advantages though, Samsung are planning 16Gbit DDR4 chips and they supposedly have 32Gbit chips on their roadmap, plus 2133MHz is the cheapest and most low end version of DDR4, while it is the highest binned version of DDR3. MS will have to make the move if they want to reduce costs, and I'm sure they will work with AMD and Samsung/Hynix to ensure compatibility is maintained properly.

 

[ZealousMonkey]

Yes, they will have to be very careful if they make a change like that. The downside if they don't make the change is that DDR3 is not going to get cheaper, it is already at base cost. The reason monolithic 8Gbit GDDR5 chips make sense is because there is demand for them outside of Sony. Nvidia's board partners are probably salivating at the thought of 16GB graphics cards and I'm sure Nvidia themselves will be happy to get 8GB reference cards for Maxwell on a 256bit bus. That kind of demand for low bandwidth RAM doesn't exist, which means the market is going to transition to DDR4 sooner rather than later and Microsoft will have to make the move as well.

Also, I know that DDR3 and GDDR5 chips are physically the same, it's just that selling the chips as GDDR5 gives Samsung and Hynix a far greater ROI. 8x 8Gbit DDR3 chips would be more costly than 16x 4Gbit DDR3 chips (no one would buy them) but 8x 8Gbit GDDR5 chips would start off around the same cost as 16x 4Gbit GDDR5 and over time they would go down in cost, and by around 2016/17 Sony will have to look moving to the new GDDR standard that comes with DDR4 or they will have to bear cost rises as GDDR5 demand decreases.

Because both console manufacturers have gone in at 16 of the most dense chips available on the very latest technologies that are close to being EOL'd, it will mean they both have to look at changing their APU mid-generation. Sony will just have to do it a bit later.

The problem for MS is that they couldn't wait for 8Gbit DDR4 chips to mature as that would take them deep into 2014. There would have been immediate advantages though, Samsung are planning 16Gbit DDR4 chips and they supposedly have 32Gbit chips on their roadmap, plus 2133MHz is the cheapest and most low end version of DDR4, while it is the highest binned version of DDR3. MS will have to make the move if they want to reduce costs, and I'm sure they will work with AMD and Samsung/Hynix to ensure compatibility is maintained properly.

So what you are saying is that this is going to take the place of RRoD and we all have to upgrade at some point lol.

Seriously don't see how this is going to be okay for development.

 

[pharmboy044]

It supposedly means "sold" to consumers. Though you could "sell through" to retailers, so its kinda a gray area to be honest. Sony said for the USA it was to consumers. After watching the crazy videos I have no doubt that these were also sold through to constomers as well. Considering how many people I saw that did NOT get a PS4 in those videos, I'm sure the demand is crazy high... seemd like 1/10 or less actually got the systems in those cases.

https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/407786261915504641

 

[RaikuHebi]

Wow ps vita is baller in Spain.

I've read Spainards on here say that Invizimals (developed there) is pretty popular over there and it has a TV show as well.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

700k in EU/AU? To be honest, I was expecting more given the launch sales in NA.

European launch numbers are usually much smaller than NA.

 

[Nightengale]

Seriously don't see how this is going to be okay for development.

It's par for course. Even as we speak, I'm confident that there's a team over at Sony and MS cracking their heads trying to shave away cost and making their current machine cheaper than what is already is.

The problem for MS is well, they can't rely on market economics for one of the materials, and they're going to have extra R&D as well as all sorts of other issues that come with development of a consumer electronics.

 

[Mondy]

Sony rollin' in the dough.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Great news for Sony, gamers, and most importantly the industry as a whole. I'm very happy with my PS4.

 

[Varth]

Was honestly expecting more, based on XBO numbers. A good 400k more. But I guess it's pretty good, seeing there are still units in the wild, and a second batch of already paid for units coming in the next 2 weeks.

 

[curb]

I wonder when Microsoft will announce their next number.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So what you are saying is that this is going to take the place of RRoD and we all have to upgrade at some point lol.

Seriously don't see how this is going to be okay for development.

No, MS will just have to find ways to limit the DDR4 chips and work in a new memory controller without breaking compatibility. They already did it when they moved the CPU and GPU for the 360 onto a single die without breaking compatibility.

 

[Fafalada]

These Asia countries are not going to sell that many, as much as we like it to be Probably a few hundred thousand at most, capped at 400K to 500K

You mean LTD? Otherwise you just agreed with the post.
Anyway PS2 sold a few milions in Korea alone, so the markets aren't necessarily that small. Doubt those countries will have anywhere near 500k available for launch though.

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

Great job Sony. My son and I have enjoyed it so far.

As I expected, SOME here want to make this doom and gloom for the Xbox One. MS cant do anything to catch up, this will encourage the sell of Xbox brand, Xbox marketing can't do anything right, Kinect has to go, etc.

When an automaker is not the number one seller in a time period does it spell gloom? No, there is money to be made in second place. With Nintendo providing little competition the Xbox is going to be just fine.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yes, they will have to be very careful if they make a change like that. The downside if they don't make the change is that DDR3 is not going to get cheaper, it is already at base cost. The reason monolithic 8Gbit GDDR5 chips make sense is because there is demand for them outside of Sony. Nvidia's board partners are probably salivating at the thought of 16GB graphics cards and I'm sure Nvidia themselves will be happy to get 8GB reference cards for Maxwell on a 256bit bus. That kind of demand for low bandwidth RAM doesn't exist, which means the market is going to transition to DDR4 sooner rather than later and Microsoft will have to make the move as well.

Also, I know that DDR3 and GDDR5 chips are physically the same, it's just that selling the chips as GDDR5 gives Samsung and Hynix a far greater ROI. 8x 8Gbit DDR3 chips would be more costly than 16x 4Gbit DDR3 chips (no one would buy them) but 8x 8Gbit GDDR5 chips would start off around the same cost as 16x 4Gbit GDDR5 and over time they would go down in cost, and by around 2016/17 Sony will have to look moving to the new GDDR standard that comes with DDR4 or they will have to bear cost rises as GDDR5 demand decreases.

Because both console manufacturers have gone in at 16 of the most dense chips available on the very latest technologies that are close to being EOL'd, it will mean they both have to look at changing their APU mid-generation. Sony will just have to do it a bit later.

The problem for MS is that they couldn't wait for 8Gbit DDR4 chips to mature as that would take them deep into 2014. There would have been immediate advantages though, Samsung are planning 16Gbit DDR4 chips and they supposedly have 32Gbit chips on their roadmap, plus 2133MHz is the cheapest and most low end version of DDR4, while it is the highest binned version of DDR3. MS will have to make the move if they want to reduce costs, and I'm sure they will work with AMD and Samsung/Hynix to ensure compatibility is maintained properly.

I dont think any significant changes will happen. MS will always remain on DDR3, Sony will always remain on GDDR5 [with eventual transfer to eight 1 GB chips], and they will both strive to go to 20nm when that process become mature and safe [without 3D transistor topography, 20nm is almost pointless for high preforming chips].

 

[SykoTech]

Excellent. I hope the PS4's great success encourages developers to keep making console games in droves.

Screw that "mobile/facebook/handheld future" crap.

 

[snack]

I wonder when Microsoft will announce their next number.

Hopefully soon. I'd like to see some stats on their end.

 

[pushBAK]

Almost to 155 Million!

Really though, I would love to see the install base the PS2 had on the PS4. I feel that such a large install base led to some really unique games.

 

[ULTROS!]

So it's definitely beating Wii U's LTD this year?

 

[KillerMan91]

European launch numbers are usually much smaller than NA.

PS3 had bigger launch in Europe (600k week one) than any console had had in US before PS4 and Xbone. With more stock PS4 would have sold way more than this 700k.

 

[curb]

Hopefully soon. I'd like to see some stats on their end.

It will be interesting to hear their next sales announcement. Since it seems right now that PS4 is selling faster, I wonder if it will be more of a "we sold X number of units" or more of a "we're seeing unprecedented demand" kind of statement.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I dont think any significant changes will happen. MS will always remain on DDR3, Sony will always remain on GDDR5 [with eventual transfer to eight 1 GB chips], and they will both strive to go to 20nm when that process become mature and safe [without 3D transistor topography, 20nm is almost pointless for high preforming chips].

If that is the case then the Bone will always cost $399 or more and the PS4 will always cost $299 or more. Sony are not a company content with a low level of cost cutting like that. They always build their electronics with future cost cuts in mind, I really wouldn't be surprised if the APU was designed with future GDDR standards in mind, remember the PS4 will probably be in production until 2022/23 so will need to be able to access the price points of $199 and below.

 

[brownfedora]

Bravo Sony.

The best thing for the gaming industry is for either Sony or Microsoft to dominate this generation so devs can minimize the cost of AAA titles.

I hope either PS4 or XBone achieve PS2-level dominance.

 

[open_mouth_]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

 

[DBT85]

So it's definitely beating Wii U's LTD this year?

Not WW, but likely in many countries.

 

[SmokyDave]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

We all squeal with excitement and third parties unleash a storm of sexy new games?

 

[Nightengale]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

The only way that's possible is if MS shipped another 800-900k units to United States in one week, and sold them out.

Not that it matters.

 

[snack]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

Then we know console gaming is farrr from dead.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

We all point and laugh to Wii U....wait, we are already doing that.

 

[mrklaw]

The only way that's possible is if MS shipped another 800-900k units to United States in one week, and sold them out.

Not that it matters.

and if they had that kind of production, they'd have had more available at launch (or not cut back on launch markets)

 

[USC-fan]

Number are pretty low IMO.

Thought EU would be able to match NA. Where did the other 400000 go? I havent seen any for sale in the USA.

Sony have really drop the ball on restocking here in US.

 

[Dunlop]

The question is, How many XBone's can MS produce given their yield issues. Perhaps they've worked out most of the kinks in their manufacturing and can produce as many as needed.

Is there an actual factual source for this or are you still fighting the good fight?

Great news for Sony, Will hopefully have mine by next week

 

[DBT85]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

Then lots of people will be eating their hats.

However, were I a hat salesman, I wouldn't be expecting a large rush any time soon.

 

[Curufinwe]

The only way that's possible is if MS shipped another 800-900k units to United States in one week, and sold them out.

That would be more than they sold at launch in the US.

 

[Pistolero]

Was honestly expecting more, based on XBO numbers. A good 400k more. But I guess it's pretty good, seeing there are still units in the wild, and a second batch of already paid for units coming in the next 2 weeks.

Euhh...people seem to mistake supply issues for demand. 700000 is the most they could produce and sell. If they had the capacity to make more of those machines and get them in the EU for the launch, they would have easily doubled the reported figure.

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

Is there an actual factual source for this or are you still fighting the good fight?

Great news for Sony, Will hopefully have mine by next week

For real!

 

[RealityPales]

PS3 had bigger launch in Europe (600k week one) than any console had had in US before PS4 and Xbone. With more stock PS4 would have sold way more than this 700k.

But didn't the PS3 come out in March of 2007 for EU? Surely they were better prepared half a year later.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Number are pretty low IMO.

Thought EU would be able to match NA. Where did the other 400000 go? I havent seen any for sale in the USA.

Sony have really drop the ball on restocking here in US.

Clearly they haven't since NA sell through has gone from 1m to 1.4m(-Latin America which is around 50k). Visibility is probably bad because retailers might be fulfilling outstanding pre-orders rather than having walk in stock. Just because you haven't seen them for sale it doesn't mean consumers aren't getting their hands on them.

 

[mrklaw]

zombbbqwtf, what are your thoughts as to Sony Vs MS current production capacity? And do you think Sony will keep their Japanese production open for a while to try and get to the supply = demand as soon as possible and not need another China production line (which would be expensive to ramp up and then potentially quickly ramp down again)

 

[RedNumberFive]

what if Microsoft announces comparable or... *gulp*... higher numbers?

I'm fairly certain that won't happen. The Microsoft store near me still has Day One consoles in stock.

 

[Triple U]

Number are pretty low IMO.

Thought EU would be able to match NA. Where did the other 400000 go? I havent seen any for sale in the USA.

Sony have really drop the ball on restocking here in US.

Low?

 

[Nightengale]

It sounds like Brazil is the only market where you can get one at stores, at this point.

I don't know about Korea and HK, but my friends in TW, Indon, Australia & Singapore said they're pretty much all sold out of the first batch and they're taking orders for Jan/Feb atm.

Malaysia still has very few stocks available for Dec, but that's because everyone else who aren't idiots are importing from SG.

Sounds like EU are also 'unfulfilled orders up till 2014.'

Dunno about NA though in terms of unfulfilled preorders, though I definitely heard that there's still a lot who couldn't get one.

 

[Mung]

Number are pretty low IMO.

Thought EU would be able to match NA. Where did the other 400000 go? I havent seen any for sale in the USA.

Sony have really drop the ball on restocking here in US.

2.1 million is low?

As for markets, Sony is clearly trying to beat MS in their strongest terrotories (UK/US) and emphasise stock there. Obviously they did a better job than MS with total stock produced so far.

 

[DieH@rd]

If that is the case then the Bone will always cost $399 or more and the PS4 will always cost $299 or more. Sony are not a company content with a low level of cost cutting like that. They always build their electronics with future cost cuts in mind, I really wouldn't be surprised if the APU was designed with future GDDR standards in mind, remember the PS4 will probably be in production until 2022/23 so will need to be able to access the price points of $199 and below.

$199 price point in ~2020 [14nm APU, half of the current power drain, much smaller PSU/cooling/case, smaller doublesided mobo] does not have to be reached with a console that has full functionality. They can always repeat PS3 superslim by shoving the HDD out, put 64-128GB of cheapo flash memory on mobo and offer that as a "entry level" SKU. Maybe even remove blu-ray drive.

Also, both Sony and MS need to start thinking about offering subsidized consoles. Then they can get more money, and customers will pay that amount over several months.

 

[10k]

So how far off are we from MGSV having a big enough audience for Kojima?

 

[Daante]

Does any1 have a estimate on how much/little profit Sony makes of every console sold?

 

[badb0y]

Does any1 have a estimate on how much/little profit Sony makes of every console sold?

They lose $50-$60~ per console last I heard.

 

[Nirolak]

Talking about the negative Wii U shipments in Europe: how can you just return stock like that? I'm little confused about it. Is it something Nintendo willingly does to avoid mass price drops and such or am I completely off the mark here?

Rather is it just simply that Nintendo says "you can return these consoles whenever if they don't sell" to have sufficient stock available everywhere?

They're legally required to unless the retailers explicitly waive that right.

You also have to do price protection in the US (giving money back to retailers if they sell for less) unless you have an explicit agreement otherwise.

In Japan you don't, but retailers are generally way more cautious with what they order and aggressively sell used games, notably hurting the legs of almost all software.

 

[alexandros]

EU sales seem low, NA sales are excellent.

 

[GulAtiCa]

That is insane and quite impressive. I'm not quite ready to get a PS4 yet myself, as I want more exclusive games for it. But I hope those that do have one, are enjoying it.

 

[Devilgunman]

Does any1 have a estimate on how much/little profit Sony makes of every console sold?

They lose money on every PS4 sold but make up with PS+ sub and software sale.