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[plagiarize]

Yeah. So this was obviously how it was going to go. I never understood how May thought she had the bargaining power. The EU have to do what's best for them first, and they have to penalize the UK for leaving rather than rewarding them, if they want it to stay together.

The UK gets to leave. That's all they're entitled to here. They've got no leverage to bargain for a good deal on the way out.

It's like quitting your job, and then trying to negotiate a better severance package. It's not happening.

 

[Armaros]

The opposite since og top gear is the brexit lads Bible.

Clarkson was a vocal remainer and supporter of the EU, actually.

 

[Plum]

It's true, I personally probably won't be too affected by Brexit. I am a middle class professional who lives in an affluent area, so I am not particularly concerned with matters like Eastern Europeans undercutting my wages or the scarcity of resources in areas where schools and surgeries are oversubscribed.

However, I do have some empathy and I care about society - which is why I can understand the frustration and resentment of those who voted to leave. I can put myself in the shoes of those who do live in poor areas and on low wages, and who feels that the government does not listen to them and that their quality of life is suffering.

So I make no apology for discussing the wider context of Brexit and the circumstances that led us to this situation in the first place.

Let me ask you; do you have empathy for those who voted remain? Can you understand the "frustration and resentment" of the so-called "remoaners" who are having many of their futures torn apart because of people who, as you admit yourself, blindly wanted "change"?

Because I seriously doubt it. You say you did it "in jest" but your use of "remoaners" was clarified by this:

It's a tongue-in-cheek term for remainers who moan about stuff for the sake of it.

So, therefore, I can't find you sincere because you're a hypocrite. Your privileged position allows you to sympathize with the ideals of the leave side of the argument in lieu of any sympathy for the actual people whose futures are going to be ruined on both sides. Yes, we can discuss what lead up to Brexit, but Brexit's happened and the impact is becoming real so... what's the point?

 

[blazinglord]

Let me ask you; do you have empathy for those who voted remain? Can you understand the "frustration and resentment" of the so-called "remoaners" who are having many of their futures torn apart because of people who, as you admit yourself, blindly wanted "change"?

That's slightly hyperbolic, 'futures torn apart', but of course I do have empathy for remainers too. I understand the fear of economic repercussions, and no doubt there will be. However, I think it is really important to see what the final deal with the EU will be.

But it was a given that UK would no longer be able to host EU agencies. It is completely right and natural that the EU would want their agencies to be based in countries that remain in the EU.

 

[Plum]

That's slightly hyperbolic, 'futures torn apart', but of course I do have empathy for remainers too. I understand the fear of economic repercussions, and no doubt there will be. However, I think it is really important to see what the final deal with the EU will be.

But it was a given that UK would no longer be able to host EU agencies. It is completely right and natural that the EU would want their agencies to be based in countries that remain in the EU.

Yes, futures will be torn apart. Wales, Cornwall, the banking sector, the medical sector, and many more all rely heavily on the trade and subsidies given by the EU. The cuts to funding for the NHS due to us needing to pay for the damages of Brexit will literally kill people. Then there's the minority and immigrant communities who find themselves in a country that does not welcome them. Can you please explain how that isn't "hyperbole" by detailing any possible deals that will 1) reverse the damage of the two years of prior negotiation and 2) get us to at least the levels of prosperity we had in the EU? You say you empathise with remainers but, again, I can't help but find you completely insincere in that statement.

 

[Mr Git]

I do wish people stop being patronising about people who voted to leave.

What debate? We had it in June 2016 mate.

Well duh

However, what remoaners don't seem to realise

Yeah, man good job. Remoaners. Christ on a fucking pendolino. BBC News comment thread is that-a-way.

e: ah you've already been called out for it. Good.

Hopefully at some point this train wreck of a clusterfuck has to slow down and maybe that's the bright light at the end of the tunnel. We can look forward to some sort of depressing, if extremely disappointing climax which is basically quite British. I'm still out of the UK so can't gauge the general mood, all I see is my money become more worthless by the day.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I apologised and said it was a mistake to use the word, even in jest.

I don't think it is fair to say that I am insincere, and if you look at my post history, you can see that I am polite and respectful of other people's opinions.

Only in jest when you're called out on it huh?

That's some cowardly shit, you knew exactly what you were doing by calling remain voters with legitimate concerns 'remoaners'. Don't play that I've been respectful of others opinions bullshit after the fact.

 

[blazinglord]

Only in jest when you're called out on it huh?

That's some cowardly shit, you knew exactly what you were doing by calling remain voters with legitimate concerns 'remoaners'. Don't play that I've been respectful of others opinions bullshit after the fact.

It's true I wasn't expecting the ferocity of passion on the side of remainers, nor did I anticipate that my term 'remoaners' would be so incendiary and overshadow the other points I made.

I admit that I can be glib sometimes, and that was obviously the wrong tone to use here and I apologise to the remainers for using that term. I think it is best that I bow out of the debate now as I genuinely did not mean to add to the animosity between remainers and leavers, but I think my presence in this debate is obviously contributing to it.

 

[Calm waterfall]

The worst thing about the leave voters is that they vote for the torries and the torries are gutting social services starting with the NHS.

 

[Protome]

The worst thing about the leave voters is that they vote for the torries and the torries are gutting social services starting with the NHS.

Like in the US, the right wing in England have successfully managed to convince those worst off that they have their best interests at heart while actually ensuring they either remain as they or worse off.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

a move this monumentally stupid SHOULD hurt. im still in disbelief. Good luxk folks in the UK that didnt vote for this garbage

 

[GrizzleBoy]

a move this monumentally stupid SHOULD hurt. im still in disbelief. Good luxk folks in the UK that didnt vote for this garbage

Funny enough, those who are set to lose the least from brexit, are largely the people who voted to remain. At least in England.

I can deal with more expensive groceries, fuel, taxes, etc.

I can move out of London and pretty much buy a mansion compared to what I can afford if London affordability gets too much.

I could maybe afford private healthcare if the NHS dies.

That brexiteer in some beaten down area in northern England who can only just about afford their already poor life and can't simply "go somewhere cheaper" because they're already in a low wealth area?

They're fucked.

And they voted to fuck themselves even more.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I am indeed arguing that favouring Europeans over non-European immigrants with regard to right to reside in the UK is discrimination. Obviously, it is legal because we are currently in the EU, but I do not have to like it. And I don't. All immigrants should have an equal opportunity to come here through a skilled points system.

You do know that such a point based system would discriminate against people who don't have the opportunity to get a good education for example? Any system in place would have some people draw the short end of the stick.

Why is the onus on me to name 3 benefits of leaving the EU? Seriously, I said that I was not really strongly for or against the idea of leaving prior to June 2016. But I accept the result of the referendum, and I sympathise with why people voted to leave.

I hear what you say about what you want from our government, and obviously this is different point of view. Personally, I am okay with the idea of changing the way we do things, and leaving the EU is obviously a way to achieve this. It is no secret that I am not instinctively a multilateralist, but with regard to Brexit result, I think the vote was really for the status quo or change. Leaving represented change, and a majority voted for it. So to put it in another way, a majority of people in this country was obviously not happy with the status quo.

You say there are benefits. I ask for those benefits. Your answer now is: I don't have to give them. I get the vote already happened, I am asking for your opinion here on why leaving should turn out OK and what the benefits are according to you.

This really is the same old argument I see a lot with Leave supporters. Once pressed for actual answers, there are none. And it is baffling to me, since we are talking about the future of millions and millions of people. Telling them to "buckle up" for a future which has benefits you can't even tell is just... strange.

Well I don't want to derail the thread talking about child benefits. It is a policy that two major parties in this country (namely the Conservatives and Labour) wanted to change but were unable to do so because of the EU.

Again, let's say you work in a country and pay taxes there, why should you not enjoy the same benefits as all other people paying the same taxes there? Would you be OK giving up your pension just because you move to another country later in live? Simple question, should be a yes or no answer.

I would understand an argument like adapting it to living standards in the other country. But scrapping it is discriminating against tax paying workers just because they come from somewhere else - something you are against based on your earlier argument about immigration above.

 

[Micerider]

Paris seems likely. Those with families and children at London schools can commute on Eurostar.

Yeah, and Frankfurt lost part of it's appeal with the recently failed merge of Deutsche Borse with LSE

 

[Xando]

Yeah, and Frankfurt lost part of it's appeal with the recently failed merge of Deutsche Borse with LSE

It's gonna be Frankfurt or Dublin. I'm expecting Frankfurt since schäuble has been lobbying EU countries since the day after the brexit vote and the ECB is right around the corner.

 

[avaya]

Funny enough, those who are set to lose the least from brexit, are largely the people who voted to remain. At least in England.

I can deal with more expensive groceries, fuel, taxes, etc.

I can move out of London and pretty much buy a mansion compared to what I can afford if London affordability gets too much.

I could maybe afford private healthcare if the NHS dies.

That brexiteer in some beaten down area in northern England who can only just about afford their already poor life and can't simply "go somewhere cheaper" because they're already in a low wealth area?

They're fucked.

And they voted to fuck themselves even more.

If I'm staying here I want my 45% rate cut metric fuckton and my carry protected. My healthcare is private and paid for by work. I can give zero fucks anymore about the idiots constantly voting against their own interests. The others are simply racist.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Has there been anymore discussion about us being able to keep EU citizenship?

 

[avaya]

Has there been anymore discussion about us being able to keep EU citizenship?

If the EU were to unilaterally offer this it would be some vindictive shit for the little englanders to stop it.

The European Parliament is still considering it I believe.

 

[Stevey]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

I work for Siemens, we export a load of Oil and Gas Turbines all around the world.
Our business isn't going anywhere.

 

[avaya]

I work for Siemens, we export a load of Oil and Gas Turbines all around the world.
Our business isn't going anywhere.

Siemens that very British company.

 

[Stevey]

Siemens that very British company.

Siemens that bought the business from Alstom, that bought it from EGT, that bought it from Rustons?

You dont know what you're talking about.

Our engine range isn't going anywhere.

 

[AppleSeason]

A lot of our clients (I work in IT Support) are EU agencies in the UK. Ugh, this sucks so much.

We are in the same situation doing stuff for agencies, although not being in UK, we could benefit depending on the lottery of where they relocate the agencies. The contracts for development stuff would probably be maintained until they end after 4 years, but if UK is out they won't be able to participate anymore (not sure about this, as one of our projects had been done by India before us), but the people working on the client offices (like support, but also receptionists, security staff) are going to take the worst hit, as they sometimes prefer local people.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I apologised and said it was a mistake to use the word, even in jest.

I don't think it is fair to say that I am insincere, and if you look at my post history, you can see that I am polite and respectful of other people's opinions.

I don't believe you.

 

[avaya]

Siemens that bought the business from Alstom, that bought it from EGT, that bought it from Rustons?

You dont know what you're talking about.

Our engine range isn't going anywhere.

Does Siemen's benefit from being within the single market when it exports these products?

The point is British manufacturing is actually owned by foreign and in many cases European firms. Products and services can be moved.

What is to stop Siemens moving the production of these turbines to a European factory? If they own the business they own the IP and the contracts. It's only people they need to replace and people are easily replaced in manufacturing.

 

[boxoctosis]

The worst thing about the leave voters is that they vote for the torries and the torries are gutting social services starting with the NHS.

If you're going to generalise wildly, on your head be it. But it's 'Tories'.

 

[blu]

That's slightly hyperbolic, 'futures torn apart', but of course I do have empathy for remainers too. I understand the fear of economic repercussions, and no doubt there will be. However, I think it is really important to see what the final deal with the EU will be.

It's gonna be great. It's true.

 

[tuxfool]

It's gonna be great. It's true.

The Best Deals™.

 

[PdotMichael]

Siemens that bought the business from Alstom, that bought it from EGT, that bought it from Rustons?

You dont know what you're talking about.

Our engine range isn't going anywhere.

Like Rolls Royce invested quite a bit in Germany Brandenburg to produce various engines for Airbus and turbofans?

 

[Flintty]

GAF regularly calls 'leavers' cunts, racists, xenophobes etc. and nobody bats an eye. Someone calls a 'remainer' remoaner and everybody loses their mind! NeoGAF!

OT none of this is surprising, but calling them Crown Jewels is a bit sensationalist.

 

[Protome]

GAF regularly calls 'leavers' cunts, racists, xenophobes etc. and nobody bats an eye. Someone calls a 'remainer' remoaner and everybody loses their mind! NeoGAF!

OT none of this is surprising, but calling them Crown Jewels is a bit sensationalist.

Context.
People largely weren't complaining specifically about the use of "remoaner" only the hypocrisy of using it and then complaining about animosity in the thread.

 

[Madness]

Hope there still will be an EU after the French elections.

The EU is also fundamentally ignoring it's own precipitous decline in the face of a British exit. The UK is the second cultural superpower in the world behind the US. It is a military on par with France as the largest or strongest in western Europe and before Brexit would have overtaken Germany as thr largest economy in 2030 with a rapid population growth fuelled by immigration. Without Britain, EU is now massively smaller, with no connection to the Conmonwealth which obviously didn't mean much. It loses London as its own financial hub, and also loses the English cultural power of the UK. Coupled with the increase of ultrnationalism elsewhere, Netherlands, France and growing anti-EU sentiment, I agree things are not stable for the EU especially someone with Trump in office and with Putin pushing as hard as he is.

 

[thepotatoman]

Serious question, are you surprised by this development? Do you think that is some kind of punitive meassure?

Isn't the biggest threat to UK that EU wants to punish them?

Economically, UK and EU probably both want to get as close as possible to what they had before brexit, but EU can't establish a precedent of leaving being not painful at all.

 

[Xando]

Isn't the biggest threat to UK that EU wants to punish them?

Economically, UK and EU probably both want to get as close as possible to what they had before brexit, but EU can't establish a precedent of leaving being not painful at all.

The EU told the UK before the referendum there would be no single market access and institutions would have to move. People decided curving immigration is more important than the economy.

Not sure why people fall for the EU wants to punish UK line when all of this was known before the vote and people chose to ignore it.
The UK will be out which means it has the same standing as Canada or Japan from a EU POV.

As Tusk said by voting for brexit people have punished themselves enough

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

GAF regularly calls 'leavers' cunts, racists, xenophobes etc. and nobody bats an eye. Someone calls a 'remainer' remoaner and everybody loses their mind! NeoGAF!

OT none of this is surprising, but calling them Crown Jewels is a bit sensationalist.

I don't recall any MPs using the words cunt to describe leave voters. But I've seen plenty MPs use remoaners to describe remain voters.
And thats the issue here.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

I don't recall any MPs using the words cunt to describe leave voters. But I've seen plenty MPs use remoaners to describe remain voters.
And thats the issue here.

The word "cunt" in the UK isn't as much of a no no as say in the USA.

 

[pswii60]

On the child benefit thing you can just join the EEA and you'll be exempt from most of the directives you hate so much anyway. Norway and Switzerland only has to obey the directives directly relating to the operation of the single market. Plus you can trade deal with anyone you want anyway.

Switzerland isn't in the EEA, it's in the EFTA. The UK will get a EFTA type deal, EEA will be too restrictive and basically the worst of both worlds.

 

[Xando]

Switzerland isn't in the EEA, it's in the EFTA. The UK will get a EFTA type deal, EEA will be too restrictive and basically the worst of both worlds.

EFTA has been shutdown by May and the EU parliament basically threatened to veto it by saying there won't be access to the SM for certain industries.

It's gonna be FoM, CETA+ or no deal.

 

[Pyramid head]

GAF regularly calls 'leavers' cunts, racists, xenophobes etc. and nobody bats an eye. Someone calls a 'remainer' remoaner and everybody loses their mind! NeoGAF!

OT none of this is surprising, but calling them Crown Jewels is a bit sensationalist.

Pretty much 95% of the leave voters I've ever interacted with have most definately been racist, so I don't really see any issue with that description. And all racists are cunts.

 

[pswii60]

Pretty much 95% of the leave voters I've ever interacted with have most definately been racist, so I don't really see any issue with that description. And all racists are cunts.

Racists are cunts indeed. I'm intrigued though, the 95% of leave voters you have ever interacted with, what racist things did they do/say?

 

[Pyramid head]

Racists are cunts indeed. I'm intrigued though, the 95% of leave voters you have ever interacted with, what racist things did they do/say?

Everything from "You got to admit though, there's too many blacks and Muslims in Bradford. You been there? It's like your not in your own country anymore." to straight up flooding Facebook with Ukip and Britain First shite immediately following their glorious victory. Some of these people I'd known for years and although I thought some of them have always 'seemed the type', I didn't expect the switch to flip to full-on white supremacist quite so suddenly. I deleted about 20-30 people from Facebook in the week that followed, friends and family alike. Probably be a bit awkward next time I bump into any of them IRL, but fuck them for making it so. Outside of the people I know personally, you need look no further than the comment sections of any vaguely Brexit related article on any website.

 

[pswii60]

Everything from "You got to admit though, there's too many blacks and Muslims in Bradford. You been there? It's like your not in your own country anymore." to straight up flooding Facebook with Ukip and Britain First shite immediately following their glorious victory. Some of these people I'd known for years and although I thought some of them have always 'seemed the type', I didn't expect the switch to flip to full-on white supremacist quite so suddenly. I deleted about 20-30 people from Facebook in the week that followed, friends and family alike. Probably be a bit awkward next time I bump into any of them IRL, but fuck them for making it so. Outside of the people I know personally, you need look no further than the comment sections of any vaguely Brexit related article on any website.

You know some vile people, you should mix in different circles.

 

[timewyrm]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

Nigel Farage..

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Everything from "You got to admit though, there's too many blacks and Muslims in Bradford. You been there? It's like your not in your own country anymore." to straight up flooding Facebook with Ukip and Britain First shite immediately following their glorious victory. Some of these people I'd known for years and although I thought some of them have always 'seemed the type', I didn't expect the switch to flip to full-on white supremacist quite so suddenly. I deleted about 20-30 people from Facebook in the week that followed, friends and family alike. Probably be a bit awkward next time I bump into any of them IRL, but fuck them for making it so. Outside of the people I know personally, you need look no further than the comment sections of any vaguely Brexit related article on any website.

A ton of the Leave supporters are straight up vile white supremacists on /r/ukpolitics. They just don't moderate that sub anywhere near enough.

 

[tuxfool]

Given Brexiter comments exhibit the same magnificent qualities as youtube comments in general, it is fair to consider a significant portion of them scum.

Aligning yourself with scum will tend to taint your position somewhat.

 

[TCRS]

Lol, so fucking predictable. From "UK will win, sovereignty rules, boohoo remoaners" to "what, we always knew things would be rough, no surprise here no sir".

Lolololol

yeah? those two aren't mutually exclusive you know. some people are okay with the economic cost of sovereignity.

 

[ittoryu]

yeah? those two aren't mutually exclusive you know. some people are okay with the economic cost of sovereignity.

Sure. If you will lose your job I am sure that the thought of "sovereignty!" Will be the first to pop up.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

yeah? those two aren't mutually exclusive you know. some people are okay with the economic cost of sovereignity.

So this was the message the Leave side was putting out all along? My mistake; all I can remember from last year was the laughing off of the silly notion that we wouldn't get a wunderdeal of having the same access to the single market/financial passport, while giving nothing in return for as the gift of trading with us would be enough to make the EU member states bend over backwards for us.

I must be getting things mixed up.

 

[Wrestlemania]

yeah? those two aren't mutually exclusive you know. some people are okay with the economic cost of sovereignity.

What's this about economic cost? News to me.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

yeah? those two aren't mutually exclusive you know. some people are okay with the economic cost of sovereignity.

You already had sovereignty.

What you voted for was a racist platform, you can try an deny it and claim it was for sovereignty and other bullshit, but you know what the vote for Leave was really about.

The problem is that Leavers are a bunch of cowards who won't admit they voted primarily for a racially charged campaign and message. Cowards to the end and that's why all Leavers deserve to suffer.

 

[ittoryu]

The EU is also fundamentally ignoring it's own precipitous decline in the face of a British exit. The UK is the second cultural superpower in the world behind the US. It is a military on par with France as the largest or strongest in western Europe and before Brexit would have overtaken Germany as thr largest economy in 2030 with a rapid population growth fuelled by immigration. Without Britain, EU is now massively smaller, with no connection to the Conmonwealth which obviously didn't mean much. It loses London as its own financial hub, and also loses the English cultural power of the UK. Coupled with the increase of ultrnationalism elsewhere, Netherlands, France and growing anti-EU sentiment, I agree things are not stable for the EU especially someone with Trump in office and with Putin pushing as hard as he is.

Netherlands voted in a different direction though and a financial hub will be created somewhere else as it seems to be the case also from the OP. Sure, the EU lost an important member, but the UK have much more to lose by leaving.