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[Gorillaz]

Spacey is gay?

it's been talked about on and off for a few years

 

[RedNumberFive]

How do you end up flying to Hawaii, multiple times, with an adult man who is not a family member or friend of the family when you're 17?

Horrible parents?

 

[Dead Man]

The first point is that the parallel is that of an unspecified ostracized minority. Not that the parallel is specifically that of a gay perspective in superman. Unless I misunderstood you.

The second is that I'm refuting the fact that Singer is gay is a point from which to argue why he understood the X-Men narrative and not Superman. I'm saying that sort of orientation is not a prerequisite, nor does it inhibit approaching certain topics. The shortcomings of telling Superman's story would be external to that particular trait of singer, and I wouldn't even lay the fulcrum on Singer when these are all such large collaborative projects to begin with.

First point is obvious, I don't think anyone has ever claimed the only parallels are with gay people. If you have seen someone doing that, laugh ta them, they are a moron.

I may also be a moron, because I still don't understand your second point.

It's going to relate to him naturally understanding how to approach the story of a persecuted minority who are hated and feared by the general population, yes. How could it not? I'm saying that Superman is going to be rougher because if you try to translate that same underdog perspective, you miss the point. I think Superman is the single hardest of the major hero properties to write well.

You can only relate to Superman easily if you are not gay? :/ A gay person can only look at Superman as a gay theme? A gay immigrant can't get anything else out of the story?

What are you actually saying here?

 

[Count Dookkake]

You could tell in Se7en that he loves to give head.

Ha.

 

[strobogo]

What is this Superman Returns story that some people keep referencing? Is there somewhere I can read this cos now I'm curious.

Watch the making of on the DVD or bluray. Dude is just in his own little world completely oblivious to everything around him, changes his mind on huge things on a whim, throws little tantrums, and in general seems very immature and spacey. He's not the guy I'd trust to head up huge blockbusters like X-Men and Superman movies based on that alone.


No weird sex stories or anything. He just came off like an ADD riddled manchild with very little maturity.

 

[BigAT]

You could tell in Se7en that he loves to give head.

 

[injurai]

First point is obvious, I don't think anyone has ever claimed the only parallels are with gay people. If you have seen someone doing that, laugh ta them, they are a moron.

I may also be a moron, because I still don't understand your second point.

The person I saw seemingly suggesting that is you, which is why I addressed it. I think your wording just wasn't nuanced enough in it's detail.

Maybe you are a moron I don't think I can help you understand more. I'm taking a similar angle as Kano in saying that Singer's orientation doesn't preclude him from approaching Superman's character. Certainly one's own experience can be drawn on, but above all these are collaborative projects so I wouldn't put too much wait on a single person being the deciding factor for something coming together or not.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Watch the making of on the DVD or bluray. Dude is just in his own little world completely oblivious to everything around him, changes his mind on huge things on a whim, throws little tantrums, and in general seems very immature and spacey. He's not the guy I'd trust to head up huge blockbusters like X-Men and Superman movies based on that alone.


No weird sex stories or anything. He just came off like an ADD riddled manchild with very little maturity.

This is true.

However he did give us Xmen2.

 

[lmpaler]

Days of Innocence Past

Bahahahahaha! Pure gold.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

When I read the title I thought he was molesting some 8 year old boy or something, then I read the article. 17 is legal in most places so this story is a lot less shocking when you get past the title.

 

[GungHo]

Good point. There's nothing about a guy leading a secret double life and having to conceal who he really is that a gay person could identify with.

I mean Superman was born to two parents that didn't completely understand what he was except that he wasn't the same as them and he had to cope with being a child and teenager who knew he was different than the people around him too. No comparison.

The biggest difference between the two is that Supe's adoptive parents loved him (even though they advised caution about revealing his true nature), while most mutants' parents thought they were freaks. Other than that, I agree with your read that they parallel, and there's a reason that outsiders of all stripes identify with a lot of the modern superhero mythos, whether they're gay, nerds, black, or otherwise feel they are trodden-upon.

Except that it doesn't really work that way. He's an overdog who hides his identity because of his humility. He's a near godlike paragon figure, and if you approach him in the same way you would the X-Men you're going to completely miss his appeal to a wide swath of people.

There are readings/versions of Superman (notably the most recent movie and early parts of Smallville) where he keeps his abilities hidden because Clark, Martha, and Jonathan all fear that Clark would be seized and used for experimentation (they don't know his powers are near-limitless). It's not always about humility or just protecting his friends.

How do you end up flying to Hawaii, multiple times, with an adult man who is not a family member or friend of the family when you're 17?

If it's anything like some of the Michael Jackson stories, the families may be unaware of the pretense or they may simply be ignoring it because of the potential pay-out that fame provides.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Horrible parents?

Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up to me. I have no doubt that Singer has a thing for younger guys and goes for them but going off on multiple flights to a tropical paradise just makes the whole thing extraordinarily fishy.

 

[anarckitty]

Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up to me. I have no doubt that Singer has a thing for younger guys and goes for them but going off on multiple flights to a tropical paradise just makes the whole thing extraordinarily fishy.

Who knows? He could have extremely shitty parents, or he could have lied to his parents and said he was being flown out to Hawaii to audition for a part.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

It's going to relate to him naturally understanding how to approach the story of a persecuted minority who are hated and feared by the general population, yes. How could it not? I'm saying that Superman is going to be rougher because if you try to translate that same underdog perspective, you miss the point. I think Superman is the single hardest of the major hero properties to write well.

We all know how someone in a minority can relate to X-Men, but you haven't explained how a gay man could fail to relate to a man who was born different, grows up being told that he has to fit in and hide who he is, and has to pretend to be someone else to fit in.

You're saying "a gay man can see himself in this character (lol), but not this one" and failing to explain why the second part is true.

 

[Blader]

Read what I said. I'm arguing that suggesting that sexuality playing into him being unable to relate to certain characters, which is what Kirblar inferred, is wrong.

Ok, I'm not the one talking about Superman though. I was only highlighting why Singer would be able to relate to X-Men and be able to have a personal handle on that franchise.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Ok, I'm not the one talking about Superman though. I was only highlighting why Singer would be able to relate to X-Men and be able to have a personal handle on that franchise.

Of course, no one is arguing that, but Kirblar also inferred that the same sexuality makes him unable to relate to Superman, which is what I'm trying to understand because to me, that's a shitty, baseless thing to say.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's well known that Stan Lee was inspired by the civil rights movement while creating the X-Men, specifically Xavier and Magneto (who were inspired by MLK and Xavier). The same theme of being different applies well to other minorities too such as gay people, and Singer has said the comic spoke to him in this regard.

 

[ivysaur12]

How do you end up flying to Hawaii, multiple times, with an adult man who is not a family member or friend of the family when you're 17?

The same pushy stage parents who allows their underage son to go to Mr. Big Director's house for a party on the promises of introducing him to the right people and making him a star.

 

[kirblar]

We all know how someone in a minority can relate to X-Men, but you haven't explained how a gay man could fail to relate to a man who was born different, grows up being told that he has to fit in and hide who he is, and has to pretend to be someone else to fit in.

You're saying "a gay man can see himself in this character (lol), but not this one" and failing to explain why the second part is true.

I'll just leave it at this and try to stop the derail I created - I sincerely think that approaching Superman through that lens fundamentally misses what makes the character appeal to so many people. It's the Conservatives love Superman, Liberals love Spider-Man thing. Superman has great cosmic power. He could singlehandedly take over the world if he so chose. But he actively chooses not to, instead behaving selflessly. There's all sorts of ridiculously All-American imagery in his origin story, showing how he was "raised right." He's an overdog who chooses not to leverage his privilege for personal gain. The villains always have to cheat to win.

You've clearly far read too much into my original statement. I meant it as "X-Men would come naturally to a gay guy, Superman likely wouldn't", and nothing more.

 

[Reeks]

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that he was 17. NY daily news reports that he started sexually abusing the boy when he was only 15.


'X-Men' director Bryan Singer accused of sexually abusing 15-year-old boy at California mansion
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-year-old-boy-article-1.1759389#ixzz2zAQ0KPAY
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/x-men-director-bryan-singer-accused-sexually-abusing-15-year-old-boy-article-1.1759389

 

[Mercury Fred]

The same pushy stage parents who allows their underage son to go to Mr. Big Director's house for a party on the promises of introducing him to the right people and making him a star.

Yeah =/

It's hard not to see the parents' culpability in a situation like this. And not to blame the victim but if a reasonably attractive 30-something star like Singer wanted to fly me to Hawaii and have sex with when I was 17, I would have said yes. That doesn't let Singer off the hook by any means, but I tend to think these situations with older teenagers are fairly murky.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I'll just leave it at this and try to stop the derail I created - I sincerely think that approaching Superman through that lens fundamentally misses what makes the character appeal to so many people. It's the Conservatives love Superman, Liberals love Spider-Man thing. Superman has great cosmic power. He could singlehandedly take over the world if he so chose. But he actively chooses not to, instead behaving selflessly. There's all sorts of ridiculously All-American imagery in his origin story, showing how he was "raised right." He's an overdog who chooses not to leverage his privilege for personal gain. The villains always have to cheat to win.

You've clearly far read too much into my original statement. I meant it as "X-Men would come naturally to a gay guy, Superman likely wouldn't", and nothing more.

Yeah, sadly, that's exactly what I thought you meant.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, sadly, that's exactly what I thought you meant.

I don't understand how my position of "It's easier to relate/understand/write for characters or people whose life experience resembles yours" offends you.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

17 years old isn't even illegal in most first world countries. Unsure where I stand on this. I raised my eyebrows when I read the big of an article that said 'the second time the plaintiff visited Hawaii' unless I misread, he got fully raped and then went back to the same place a diff time.

It all sounds skeevy as hell. But is it true? Who knows. Certainly a LOT of allegations similar to this surrounding Hollywood

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Yeah =/

It's hard not to see the parents' culpability in a situation like this. And not to blame the victim but if a reasonably attractive 30-something star like Singer wanted to fly me to Hawaii and have sex with when I was 17, I would have said yes. That doesn't let Singer off the hook by any means, but I tend to think these situations with older teenagers are fairly murky.

Wait, but are you gay? The accuser in this case says he's not gay. Does that even matter?

 

[crimsonspider89]

Really wish people would read the thread before posting.

IF they did they would know:

Federal age of consent is 18
He flew him to hawaii and then forced him to have sex
And abuse started at 15

 

[injurai]

I don't understand how my position of "It's easier to relate/understand/write for characters or people whose life experience resembles yours" offends you.

Because if something about Singer precludes him from being able to direct Superman, we wouldn't know it. Him being gay wouldn't be the reason. If your evidence is that it was a bad movie, then you've mistakenly put him as the single source of shortcoming for a collaborative project.

We have no idea what he can and can't draw on for Superman, nor does it mean he can't draw on knowledge of others to supplement a lack of shared experiences.

 

[Reeks]

Really wish people would read the thread before posting.

IF they did they would know:

Federal age of consent is 18
He flew him to hawaii and then forced him to have sex
And abuse started at 15

Jesus thank you. And even if he was over 18, rape is rape is rape.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I don't understand how my position of "It's easier to relate/understand/write for characters or people whose life experience resembles yours" offends you.

This will be my last post on the issue because it's getting pretty off topic, but I don't know how to explain to you why you deciding that a huge swath of diverse people who just happen to identify as homosexuals should relate to one thing over another is messed up if you don't already see it.

It might be good for you to replace being gay with being black in your statements and reread them and see if they still seem ok to you.

 

[crimsonspider89]

This will be my last post on the issue because it's getting pretty off topic, but I don't know how to explain to you why you deciding that a huge swath of diverse people who just happen to identify as homosexuals should relate to one thing over another is messed up if you don't already see it.

It might be good for you to replace being gay with being black in your statements and reread them and see if they still seem ok to you.

Whether you like it or not, what he says is the truth.

You are going to identify with a group who faces persecution like you do moreso than a man who is idolized and shown as perfect in his superhero attire.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Jesus thank you. And even if he was over 18, rape is rape is rape.

Did not see the bit about it starting at 15 but the other stuff is alleged at this point and the federal illegality is.... The age thing is less cut and dried than 17=rape.

That said, if it went exactly as laid out by plaintiff, cut off singers wang

 

[ivysaur12]

Did not see the bit about it starting at 15 but the other stuff is alleged at this point and the federal illegality is.... The age thing is less cut and dried than 17=rape.

That said, if it went exactly as laid out by plaintiff, cut off singers wang

It's actually very cut and dry. Even if the surivor was 17 and said, Yes Bryan, let's have sex! it is still rape.

It's not a fuzzy issue. It's actually extremely clear.

 

[TheFightingFish]

Honestly, when just talking about casting couch stuff even with consenting adults I'm still pretty dang anti and creeped out. The way I see, it a movie producer and an aspiring actor / actress are in a situation not unlike a boss and an employee at a company. Most probably get around it with innuendo and implications, but if some studio boss or producer ever directly tells someone that sleeping with them with either get them a job or that not sleeping with them would hurt their career they should be able to be liable in the same way that a boss would be doing the same to a direct employee. Maybe it's too hard of a gray area here between consent and coercion to really make it a legal issue, but I sure as heck find it gross morally.

As for this specific lawsuit it's obviously all just one side at this point, but it's actually worse sounding than I expected. I mean, it sounds like the two of them met at Hollywood parties hosted by a guy (Marc Hollins-Rector) who ended up being convicted of transporting minors across state lines for sex a few years later.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Horrifying if true. But calling a 17 year old a child is kind of wrong, eh?

In my country he's not a kid, but in the USA he's under 18 so a kid he is...and calling him a child is a good tactic for influencing any future jury.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Can't say I didn't see this coming.

 

[GungHo]

This will be my last post on the issue because it's getting pretty off topic, but I don't know how to explain to you why you deciding that a huge swath of diverse people who just happen to identify as homosexuals should relate to one thing over another is messed up if you don't already see it.

It might be good for you to replace being gay with being black in your statements and reread them and see if they still seem ok to you.

Or Jew. Because, that's the background of the people who came up with Superman.

 

[BobbyRobby]

In what universe is "he forced my head underwater to make me give him oral sex" considered creepy sexual behavior?

that is the coerced act I was referring to. We should wait for proof of that, rather than shame him for promiscuous, consensual behavior with people who happen to look young.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

This is why Disney needs to get the X-men back. Nobody in the magic kingdom would ever do such a thing.

 

[TrumanBurbank]

I wonder what Ian McKellen thinks about all this. Seems like a super nice dude.

Hugh Jackman seemes like the nicest guy in the world too. Would love his reaction to this. Wish a journalist with some balls would ask these guys about this whole situation since the movie is going to be released soon.

 

[Father_Brain]

Yeah =/

It's hard not to see the parents' culpability in a situation like this. And not to blame the victim but if a reasonably attractive 30-something star like Singer wanted to fly me to Hawaii and have sex with when I was 17, I would have said yes. That doesn't let Singer off the hook by any means, but I tend to think these situations with older teenagers are fairly murky.

Given the enormous power/influence gap and Singer's alleged promise to use that status to advance the kid's career, I think that actually makes the situation a good deal less murky.

 

[Gannd]

How do you end up flying to Hawaii, multiple times, with an adult man who is not a family member or friend of the family when you're 17?

Because his parents were not doing their proper duty to protect their child? A lot of hollywood parents want to get ahead just as much as their kids.

 

[Gannd]

What's sad is that if Bryan Singer had any other career he'd be toast (if the allegations turn out to be true) but Hollywood loves to applaud rapists.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

He hangs out in West Hollywood and hits on younger men saying he can make them famous. I actually told someone here on gaf about this a few months ago.

welp.

 

[Alrus]

I wonder what Ian McKellen thinks about all this. Seems like a super nice dude.

Hugh Jackman seemes like the nicest guy in the world too. Would love his reaction to this. Wish a journalist with some balls would ask these guys about this whole situation since the movie is going to be released soon.

They would probably be reasonable and wait for the results of the lawsuit before taking a stance, like a normal person should do.

welp.

That makes him a douche and a creep for some but that doesn't mean he's a rapist.

 

[DocSeuss]

that is the coerced act I was referring to. We should wait for proof of that, rather than shame him for promiscuous, consensual behavior with people who happen to look young.

Right. I just find it weird that people are going "hey, the kid was almost 18, consensual stuff is no big deal."

Um. Guys. The allegations involve torture. They involve being drugged. This is not consensual stuff, this is grooming, torture, and rape.

I'm not sure why people are talking about statutory rape and crossing straight lines while the allegations are suggesting he was literally drowning someone to make them give him oral sex, as well as drugging them. Surely literal rape and torture is way worse than statutory rape, which can happen when an eighteen year old kid in high school dates a seventeen year-old in the same class.

If we're going to talk about it in the context of "if it's true..." we can't pick and choose which allegations there are, surely. If it's true, Brian Singer is a monster. If it's false, his accuser is a jerk.

It's ridiculous to think that someone who may be ostracized or persecuted because of his sexuality can relate to fictional characters who are ostracized and persecuted because of their minority status? I think Singer has even said he can connect to the property for that reason.

I found it problematic that he did this to the series, though. Whenever I watched the movies, I found myself bugged by how he downplayed the women (which are arguably more important than the men in the series) while... being kinda creepy about the men. Like Zack Snyder does with Sucker Punch.

It felt like he took a series that had pretty much universal appeal (everyone feels like an outsider in their teens, and mutation--physical change into something wonderful and frightening--is a pretty explicit model of puberty; plus, it provided a place for women and minorities in comics to be awesome, when a lot of other comics ignored them) and went "hey, I'ma make it about my personal issues and also how hot I think these men are, the end." He's like Snyder or Bay or something.

 

[Spinluck]

Do you mean 'no, his reputation is ruined' or 'no, he ruined a poor kid's life'?

 

[kirblar]

I'm not sure why people are talking about statutory rape and crossing straight lines while the allegations are suggesting he was literally drowning someone to make them give him oral sex, as well as drugging them. Surely literal rape and torture is way worse than statutory rape, which can happen when an eighteen year old kid in high school dates a seventeen year-old in the same class.

Because the initial article frames it in a way that makes you think that's what this is about.

 

[Rest]

When I read the title I thought he was molesting some 8 year old boy or something, then I read the article. 17 is legal in most places so this story is a lot less shocking when you get past the title.

What about the part where he raped him? That doesn't bother you?


I don't understand these threads. Every time some Hollywood person is accused of raping a child, everyone just assumes it was consensual, but what's worse, it's like the child molester defense force comes out. It's not okay to have sex with kids, even if they're almost adults, it's not okay. Please don't defend these people.

 

[Black-Wind]

When I read the title I thought he was molesting some 8 year old boy or something, then I read the article. 17 is legal in most places so this story is a lot less shocking when you get past the title.

... You DID read the part where he actually rapes the boy, right? As in, forces himself on em. :/

This-

What about the part where he raped him? That doesn't bother you?


I don't understand these threads. Every time some Hollywood person is accused of raping a child, everyone just assumes it was consensual, but what's worse, it's like the child molester defense force comes out. It's not okay to have sex with kids, even if they're almost adults, it's not okay. Please don't defend these people.

And This.

Right. I just find it weird that people are going "hey, the kid was almost 18, consensual stuff is no big deal."

Um. Guys. The allegations involve torture. They involve being drugged. This is not consensual stuff, this is grooming, torture, and rape.

I'm not sure why people are talking about statutory rape and crossing straight lines while the allegations are suggesting he was literally drowning someone to make them give him oral sex, as well as drugging them. Surely literal rape and torture is way worse than statutory rape, which can happen when an eighteen year old kid in high school dates a seventeen year-old in the same class.

If we're going to talk about it in the context of "if it's true..." we can't pick and choose which allegations there are, surely. If it's true, Brian Singer is a monster. If it's false, his accuser is a jerk.



I found it problematic that he did this to the series, though. Whenever I watched the movies, I found myself bugged by how he downplayed the women (which are arguably more important than the men in the series) while... being kinda creepy about the men. Like Zack Snyder does with Sucker Punch.

It felt like he took a series that had pretty much universal appeal (everyone feels like an outsider in their teens, and mutation--physical change into something wonderful and frightening--is a pretty explicit model of puberty; plus, it provided a place for women and minorities in comics to be awesome, when a lot of other comics ignored them) and went "hey, I'ma make it about my personal issues and also how hot I think these men are, the end." He's like Snyder or Bay or something.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Too much of posting without reading the thread going on.

Really annoying.