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[Dr.Guru of Peru]

There are lots of benefits from incorporating. A lower tax rate should not be one. (As Andrew Coyne said)

Sorry, I don't have a response to this. It's an opinion, and your'e entitled to it, but there's nothing to retort.

I pay my plumber directly. That doesn't mean I need be involved in his benefit package or retirement fund. My wife's clients who pay her aren't involved in our financial planning. Everyone gets money from somewhere and has outside forces determine what their services are worth.

Except both your wife and plumber are able to set their own fees and bill whoever they want. Physicians exclusively bill their provincial insurance companies at the rates set by the province. Other public health systems (such as the NHS) have responded to this by creating a physicians pension plan that the government pays into. The Canadian solution is to allow tax deferral and passive investments through incorporation, as their really is no appetite to create a pension plan for another sector of public workers.

It's not just medical corporations that are getting brought in line, it's any small corporation. This affects me too but just because I benefit from a tax loophole doesn't mean said loophole is a good thing that ought to exist.

Well yes, that's my point I made in the first part of my last point. This "loophole" isn't exclusive to physicians. For full disclosure: I am a physician who is not incorporated.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Sorry, I don't have a response to this. It's an opinion, and your'e entitled to it, but there's nothing to retort.


Except both your wife and plumber are able to set their own fees and bill whoever they want. Physicians exclusively bill their provincial insurance companies at the rates set by the province. Other public health systems (such as the NHS) have responded to this by creating a physicians pension plan that the government pays into. The Canadian solution is to allow tax deferral and passive investments through incorporation, as their really is no appetite to create a pension plan for another sector of public workers.



Well yes, that's my point I made in the first part of my last point. This "loophole" isn't exclusive to physicians. For full disclosure: I am a physician who is not incorporated.

Both the plumber and my wife have their rates set by what the market will bear, and no amount of complaining about it changes that. They could both decide to charge $1500 an hour and nobody would use their services. The public only has so much money set aside for things like plumbing and legal advice, just like the Government only has so much money it can set aside for things like paying Doctors. in both cases it's just what the market can bear.

Also you can't argue that there's some extra special consideration for doctors that's being taken away here and in the same breath say it's about all small corps. If MDs need to negotiate a pension plan in their next collective agreement than so being. Hitching your retirement plans on the tax code isn't a great way to go about things.

 

[CazTGG]

Did the dollar tank when the original was being negotiated?

Not quite "tanked", but there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding NAFTA i.e. a belief it would lead to Mexico having an increase in buyer power and being able to out-compete Canadian workers, that resulted in a weaker dollar (sources vary depending on how many decimals they round to), down from 86c in 1990 to 77c in 1994.

I can't believe there's so much bellyaching with the proposed tax changes to self incorporation. So much fear mongering about how it will cripple the health care system (it won't) and how it will hurt small businesses (it won't, either).

Old doctors yell at cloud (because they don't want to pay more taxes, something something fuck you something something got mine). Everyone else on the other hand...not a clue. Seems like a lot of people are misinformed about what this loophole closing will do given Canada's currently grey approach to tax avoidance (Note: Tax avoidance =/= tax evasion).

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Both the plumber and my wife have their rates set by what the market will bear, and no amount of complaining about it changes that. They could both decide to charge $1500 an hour and nobody would use their services. The public only has so much money set aside for things like plumbing and legal advice, just like the Government only has so much money it can set aside for things like paying Doctors. in both cases it's just what the market can bear.

Also you can't argue that there's some extra special consideration for doctors that's being taken away here and in the same breath say it's about all small corps. If MDs need to negotiate a pension plan in their next collective agreement than so being. Hitching your retirement plans on the tax code isn't a great way to go about things.

We're getting way beyond the scope of this discussion, but there's no way to test what the market can bear in our current physician labour market.

As for the second point, I'm actually not sure what you're saying and think you may be confused. These tax benefits were around before doctors were able to incorporate. The ability to incorporate was offered to physicians in lieu of a pension. If you still see some cognitive dissonance here, you'll have to spell it out more clearly.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Old doctors yell at cloud (because they don't want to pay more taxes, something something fuck you something something got mine). Everyone else on the other hand...not a clue. Seems like a lot of people are misinformed about what this loophole closing will do given Canada's currently grey approach to tax avoidance (Note: Tax avoidance =/= tax evasion).

Old doctors will be the least affected by these new rules.

 

[matthewwhatever]

It's pretty difficult to feel any sympathy for the top 1% of earners in Canada, who are using a loophole to avoid having to pay the same tax rates as everyone else. Per Stephen Gordon, the loophole was set up to remove limit the liabilities of CCPC owners, not provide them with preferential tax treatment.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Ontario to create cannabis control board, open up to 60 storefronts, sources say

The Ontario government will announce Friday that it will create a cannabis control board and open up to 60 storefronts to manage the sale and distribution of marijuana in the province, CBC News has learned.

The plans include restricting marijuana sales to those 19 and older, a year above the minimum age recommended by the federal government's cannabis task force report in December.

The 30 to 60 stores selling marijuana to the public will not be housed inside existing LCBO stores as Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne had previously suggested.

Illegal pot shops in Ontario would be shut down over the next 12 months.

 

[TemplaerDude]

I have a difficult time believing they will do this properly.

 

[mackaveli]

It's pretty difficult to feel any sympathy for the top 1% of earners in Canada, who are using a loophole to avoid having to pay the same tax rates as everyone else. Per Stephen Gordon, the loophole was set up to remove limit the liabilities of CCPC owners, not provide them with preferential tax treatment.

I agree but I think a lot of the push back has to deal with a lot of "subcontractors" who are really employees but have to incorporate to get employed. They are married let's say and bring in about $100-$150k in taxable income. Or anyone who has a small business is upset about this. Example below.

Have a married family with a stay at home parent earning $0.00. Company has profit of $100,000. They split dividend $50,000 to each parent and overall have a lower tax rate. With the reasonability test (Don't think there are details on how that is calculated) the stay at home parent might not be able to receive any income. Therefore now the parent who does / owns the business will have a dividend of $100,000 and therefore pay a higher tax overall as a family.

I know the rule is proposed as it to effect doctors etc., but it also will impact these business I gave an example of above and any one who owns a business doesn't matter the amount of income they have in the business would / should have family members as shareholders in order to sprinkle the income given the current rules depending on how much income the person wants to report on personal taxes.

Personally I am glad they are getting rid of dividend splitting and hopefully it goes through. But a lot of small business have used the dividend splitting strategy for years and now when they find out that the government is taking it away or changing it everyone is upset.

The other two changes I hope go through as well but seems to be a lot of push back on those two.

 

[killer rin]

Ontario to create cannabis control board, open up to 60 storefronts, sources say

Anyone who figured otherwise hasn't been looking at the history of Ontario. This was the only way we were going to do this. Dispensaries were chasing a dream that was plain up impossible to meet

 

[explodet]

We'll be griping about potential CCBO strikes and line ups to stock up before you know it.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Thankfully Quebec is just across the river

 

[Entropia]

The idea of the CCBO was pretty much expected. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. Just let people open up their own dispensaries but have to go through the proper certifications, licensing, etc. etc. to be able to open and keep their shop open.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Thankfully Quebec is just across the river

You can get arrested for smuggling, just like for alcohol, lol.

 

[Mr.Mike]

You can get arrested for smuggling, just like for alcohol, lol.

Although R v. Comeau will probably cover marijuana as well as beer.

I expected they would just sell it through the LCBO, but maybe this is easier than refitting the LCBO's stores and supply chain.

I guess they're doing a press conference right now (11:15 AM).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-unveils-pot-plan-live-1.4280631

 

[killer rin]

The idea of the CCBO was pretty much expected. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. Just let people open up their own dispensaries but have to go through the proper certifications, licensing, etc. etc. to be able to open and keep their shop open.

Unfortunately it will take a lot longer before that becomes a viable option. Unlike with Alcohol where the main problem is the government just straight up not wanting to give up the cash revenue/control. With Marijuana you also have to deal with a good 30-40% of the population so behind on the times that they believe you'll essentially be going to hell and should be locked away forever before you get there if you touch the stuff.

 

[Moppeh]

60 stores doesn't seem like very many.

 

[Mr.Mike]

60 stores doesn't seem like very many.

The plan that was actually unveiled calls for 150 by 2020.

Ontario unveils pot plan including online ordering, 150 stand-alone stores

The Ontario government has announced a framework to manage the sale and use of marijuana, which includes an online ordering service and roughly 150 stand-alone stores.

The plan revealed Friday morning includes several key components:​

Eighty stand-alone stores that will be open by July 1, 2019, with roughly 150 opened by 2020.
Online distribution that will be available across Ontario from July 2018 onward.
A proposed minimum age of 19 to use, purchase and possess recreational cannabis in Ontario.
Attorney General Yasir Naqvi, Finance Minister Charles Sousa and Health Minister Eric Hoskins unveiled the plan, which makes Ontario the first province or territory in Canada to publicly announce a comprehensive framework.

The plan means the LCBO will oversee the legal retailing of cannabis across the province through the new stand-alone stores and an online ordering service — meaning cannabis and alcohol will not be sold alongside each other.

It also stipulates the use of recreational cannabis will be prohibited in public places, cars and workplaces, and will only be allowed in private residences.

It will also be prohibited for anyone under the age of 19, giving police the power to confiscate small amounts of pot from young people.

...

The cannabis stores will operate with the same retailing standards that apply to alcohol, as well as federal requirements for cannabis sales, according to the ministry. That means:

Ontario will not permit products to be visible to youth and will require a behind-the-counter retail environment similar to how cigarettes are sold.
There will be no self-service.
There will be mandatory training for retail staff.
As for online sales, the ministry said it will ensure "secure and safe" delivery across Ontario.

Similar to alcohol sales, online cannabis sales would require ID checks, signatures upon delivery and no packages left unattended at someone's door.

...

 

[pr0cs]

Old doctors yell at cloud (because they don't want to pay more taxes, something something fuck you something something got mine). .

This is such a tired pointless suite of commentary. Is it supposed to guilt people into giving a shit?

 

[DopeyFish]

The idea of the CCBO was pretty much expected. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. Just let people open up their own dispensaries but have to go through the proper certifications, licensing, etc. etc. to be able to open and keep their shop open.

Ontario needs more revenue to handle the debt

there needs to be more provincially owned businesses, not less.

 

[SRG01]

I agree but I think a lot of the push back has to deal with a lot of "subcontractors" who are really employees but have to incorporate to get employed. They are married let's say and bring in about $100-$150k in taxable income. Or anyone who has a small business is upset about this. Example below.

Have a married family with a stay at home parent earning $0.00. Company has profit of $100,000. They split dividend $50,000 to each parent and overall have a lower tax rate. With the reasonability test (Don't think there are details on how that is calculated) the stay at home parent might not be able to receive any income. Therefore now the parent who does / owns the business will have a dividend of $100,000 and therefore pay a higher tax overall as a family.

I know the rule is proposed as it to effect doctors etc., but it also will impact these business I gave an example of above and any one who owns a business doesn't matter the amount of income they have in the business would / should have family members as shareholders in order to sprinkle the income given the current rules depending on how much income the person wants to report on personal taxes.

Personally I am glad they are getting rid of dividend splitting and hopefully it goes through. But a lot of small business have used the dividend splitting strategy for years and now when they find out that the government is taking it away or changing it everyone is upset.

The other two changes I hope go through as well but seems to be a lot of push back on those two.

That scenario is very similar to personal income splitting from the Harper years and it was extremely unpopular. The lifestyle, working hours, and social 'rank' of a person that earns $100k with a stay-at-home spouse is very different than two people that earn $50k separately.

 

[Silexx]

Ontario needs more revenue to handle the debt

there needs to be more provincially owned businesses, not less.

The province could generate as much or more revenue by taxing cannabis and/or alcohol and cutting their overhead.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Ontario needs more revenue to handle the debt

there needs to be more provincially owned businesses, not less.

But why? With a sales tax the government gets a cut without having to expose itself to business risk. There might be reasons other than revenue for the government to own certain businesses, but owning businesses for the sake of making profits on them seems silly.

 

[DopeyFish]

The province could generate as much or more revenue by taxing cannabis and/or alcohol and cutting their overhead.

taxes vs taxes and sales

depending on the tax rate on cannabis, you'd need likely 4x as much revenue from opening it up to capitalism... difficult when it's not something that's likely to be allowed to be marketed. Also opens up more potential for black market to remove said revenue as there's less control over the product.

pure revenue is more important than just the profit. currency devaluation is a thing.

 

[gabbo]

Not shocked that theyd take an lcbo style approach. I mean id rather go to a bright, clean lcbo style store than Bills Weed Shop in a run down convenience store setting/the terrible state of most Beer Stores. I mean, they could evetually open it up in the future, just like they have with beer and wine recently. Mot bothered by this approach at all.

 

[Pancake Mix]

I imagine other provinces (except Quebec given their different liquor regulations, no idea how liquor stores work there) will follow suit.

Getting used to inadvertently getting a whiff of that horrible stench more often will be the biggest change for me, and, I suspect, most people.

 

[NeoZeedeater]

I really hope BC doesn't go all government stores-only with this. This is already the most pot-friendly place in the country so I think a more free market approach would be easy to transition to.

 

[BigJonsson]

How is the online going to work? Some people may never leave home after this goes live

 

[Mr.Mike]

How is the online going to work? Some people may never leave home after this goes live

Ontarians forced to hang out with Kathleen Wynne now that she’s their dealer

 

[Mr. Giggles]

*sigh good by dreams of opening my own dispensary.

 

[Bronetta]

Im very curious about how the Ontario government will price it and how good the bud will be.

 

[Random Human]

So Ford is running for mayor.

 

[poodpick]

So Ford is running for mayor.

rip transit

 

[CazTGG]

Can't say i'm particularly surprised at the outcome, but it could have been a lot worse. The big concerns that will arise from this is how it will be priced per gram, how home-growers and consumables will be handled and whether anyone currently selling marijuana will be transferred over to these stores instead of just having their business shut down i.e. you know your stuff, come work with us but on a much larger scale while we work out the kinks over the next few years.

In other news, hell has frozen over, thawed, then frozen over again well before the hockey season starts: Doug "That Little Bitch" Ford is running for mayor of Toronto (Again)

Save us, literally anyone else (except John Tory).

 

[killer rin]

So Ford is running for mayor.

Oh FFS We'll never get the Amazon HQ if that doofus wins.

 

[explodet]

Oh boy, I get to sing the Monorail song again!

 

[Random Human]

I have a hard believing Doug Ford could ever win, but I guess it's a way off still.

 

[CazTGG]

I have a hard believing Doug Ford could ever win, but I guess it's a way off still.

At this point, the next mayoral election for Toronto, much as I dislike it, will be decided by whether John Tory's approval ratings holds steady for the next year or so since I don't see any other city councillors, former or otherwise, jumping in.

 

[gabbo]

I have a hard believing Doug Ford could ever win, but I guess it's a way off still.

Were his numbers last time buoyed only because he took over for his brother at the last minute or does he have that same appeal? Always assumed he wasnt as well liked.

 

[CazTGG]

Were his numbers last time buoyed only because he took over for his brother at the last minute or does he have that same appeal? Always assumed he wasnt as well liked.

Conservatives love the guy for the same reason they do his brother i.e. he's fighting for the little guy (he never did) and "muh taxes" and debt (even though Rob increased the debt Toronto's citizens would have to pay but let's not have facts get in the way of feelings), so...yes?

 

[Boogie]

Were his numbers last time buoyed only because he took over for his brother at the last minute or does he have that same appeal? Always assumed he wasnt as well liked.

That plus Chow nearly fucking things up by thinking she had a chance from the left.

 

[gabbo]

Conservatives love the guy for the same reason they do his brother i.e. he's fighting for the little guy (he never did) and "muh taxes" and debt (even though Rob increased the debt Toronto's citizens would have to pay but let's not have facts get in the way of feelings), so...yes?

I know he uses BS populist approach that Cons and the worst of the worst on the right eat up, but compared to his Trump Beta v5 brother, he didn't win over the same numbers for whatever reason. Less sympathetic.

 

[Fuzzy]

I know he uses BS populist approach that Cons and the worst of the worst on the right eat up, but compared to his Trump Beta v5 brother, he didn't win over the same numbers for whatever reason. Less sympathetic.

Next time he needs to hand out more $20 bills for people to vote for him.

 

[Random Human]

I know he uses BS populist approach that Cons and the worst of the worst on the right eat up, but compared to his Trump Beta v5 brother, he didn't win over the same numbers for whatever reason. Less sympathetic.

He's essentially Rob Ford with all the problems but less charismatic and likeable, so Rob's numbers are probably his ceiling. On TV he just comes across like a bully. If you factor in a stronger opponent in John Tory and no Chow, it's hard to see Doug winning.

 

[gutter_trash]

Doug doesn't have Rob's likeablilty.

without his brother doing Chris Farley-esque antics, Doug is nothing.

 

[matthewwhatever]

This is amazing: Andrew Scheer has lowest approval among federal party leaders

So not only did Scheer get pretty much zero bump from being a new leader, he's less liked than the guy who's out of a job in a few weeks (Mulcair), the woman who got her job because no one else wanted it (the Bloc leader), and the woman who's been "building" her party for a decade and still only has one seat to show for it (May). I know that voting preferences are, to some extent, locked-in when it comes to the Conservatives -- you either like them or you don't -- but it's pretty incredible that Scheer's negatives became apparent so quickly.

In other news, hell has frozen over, thawed, then frozen over again well before the hockey season starts: Doug "That Little Bitch" Ford is running for mayor of Toronto (Again)

Aww, you had my hopes up -- I was hoping you were quoting the headline.

 

[Gitaroo]

This is amazing: Andrew Scheer has lowest approval among federal party leaders

So not only did Scheer get pretty much zero bump from being a new leader, he's less liked than the guy who's out of a job in a few weeks (Mulcair), the woman who got her job because no one else wanted it (the Bloc leader), and the woman who's been "building" her party for a decade and still only has one seat to show for it (May). I know that voting preferences are, to some extent, locked-in when it comes to the Conservatives -- you either like them or you don't -- but it's pretty incredible that Scheer's negatives became apparent so quickly.



Aww, you had my hopes up -- I was hoping you were quoting the headline.

lol, honestly don't even know who he is, seems kind of out of nowhere.

 

[CazTGG]

This is amazing: Andrew Scheer has lowest approval among federal party leaders

So not only did Scheer get pretty much zero bump from being a new leader, he's less liked than the guy who's out of a job in a few weeks (Mulcair), the woman who got her job because no one else wanted it (the Bloc leader), and the woman who's been "building" her party for a decade and still only has one seat to show for it (May). I know that voting preferences are, to some extent, locked-in when it comes to the Conservatives -- you either like them or you don't -- but it's pretty incredible that Scheer's negatives became apparent so quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised if his ties to Rebel/his weak disapproval of them following Charlottesville contributed to the lower approval ratings, coupled with the fact that most people don't know anything about Harper Jr. other than he's leader of the CPC.

Aww, you had my hopes up -- I was hoping you were quoting the headline.

I think if the CBC had that headline, i'd have screencapped the comments and posted them here since they would be a riot.

 

[Vibranium]

I really hope that after Elizabeth May retires the NDP can pick her seat up, (false hope most likely). Really impressed with how Jagmeet Singh handled that crazy racist lady, I will be supporting my local NDP candidate despite the seat probably being out of their reach. Not worried about the Cons sneaking through in this upcoming election, especially with Scheer.

In B.C. news, Liberal MLA Darryl Plecas was elected to be the Speaker of the House, meaning that the NDP will not have to worry about their small minority, as the Libs have one less seat now. He was also booted from their caucus as a result, as he previously told the party he would not seek the job. Looks like matthew was wrong about this one!

https://www.google.ca/amp/globalnews.ca/news/3728553/former-bc-liberal-elected-as-speaker-of-the-house/amp/

 

[matthewwhatever]

I really hope that after Elizabeth May retires the NDP can pick her seat back up. Really impressed with how Jagmeet Singh handled that crazy racist lady, I will be supporting my local NDP candidate despite the seat probably being out of their reach. Not worried about the Cons sneaking through in this upcoming election, especially with Scheer.

Pick her seat back up? Have you ever looked at the history of Saanich-Gulf Islands? The NDP hasn't been competitive in that riding in 30 years. I'd say that when May finally goes, it's more likely that the riding flips Conservative than anything else.

In B.C. news, Liberal MLA Darryl Plecas was elected to be the Speaker of the House, meaning that the NDP will not have to worry about their small minority, as the Libs have one less seat now. He was also booted from their caucus as a result, as he previously told the party he would not seek the job. Looks like matthew was wrong about this one!

I honestly don't remember exactly what I said before, but I think that the BC Liberals not having a leader clearly weakens party discipline.

That said, it's still a pretty tenuous Parliament. Looking at Wikipedia, given Plecas' age and the riding's short history, it looks like he wants a year or two of the perks that come with being Speaker before he retires (since I'm assuming that provincial speakers get the same perks as the federal speaker gets). That's a pretty solidly Liberal riding, so the odds that he holds if he were to run at an independent are pretty slim -- just look at who he beat to win his seat: an independent who had, prior to being expelled from caucus, been the longest-serving Liberal MLA.