Wow, this is way more interesting than the DF article. Thanks.
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DF: Is Uncharted 4 the generational leap we were hoping for?
- Thread starter valkyre
- Start date
Wow, this is way more interesting than the DF article. Thanks.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Again, I wrote that to everyone doubting that the game won't evolve in the future, but this is only intended to you since you are the only one insisting on that: Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End Didn’t Look Like the PlayStation Experience Demo Just Three Weeks Ago:
http://goo.gl/ad9xZh
2 days ago I was talking about how UT4 is still using the old UE3 UT3 weapons models in the pre-alpha. Yesterday's update just brought some of the new weapons using the PBR materials (and shields are using it now too) and the novelties featured in 4.6 update like the emissive textures and we are still in the pre-alpha.
I don't think this guy knows what he's talking about. Everything is tessellation, apparently.
VisceralBowl
Member
Looks like 1080p upscaled to 1440p
megabytecr
Member
This.
Watching the gamersyde video I think it looks great, hoping it runs at 60fps.
Great Gameplay with those graphics is certainly welcome.
Dictator93
Member
That is not what people are talking about though. That much is pretty obvious.
The demo wasnt at 60fps though. At all.
That is conjecture. The demo is running at 30 and a previous video ran at 60. Questioning the hows and whys of that first video in comparison to this is EXACTLY what DF did.
I have no idea if the game will run at 60 when it comes out, but my deduction from how other games look and run on the PS4 in combination with what we know about PS4 hardware lends me to doubt that it would be a rock solid 60 if that happened.
It's not just the visuals, what's more impressive is if they can hit 60fps.
To answer the OP
YES this is a generational leap as well the first Uncharted was
And I mean it both gameplay wise and graphically wise
and YES there is still room for improvement my PC friends
Just like between UC1 and UC2 because so console always worked
and do not forget we are having THESE outcomes on a modified TLoU old-generation engine which is revealing of ND prestige
(Can't imagine how new IP on new engine will look like)
EDIT: hope it will be capped 30fps with some more effects than 60fps with some cuts here and there
I just can't see the final build having present performance AND 60fps together
YES this is a generational leap as well the first Uncharted was
And I mean it both gameplay wise and graphically wise
and YES there is still room for improvement my PC friends
Just like between UC1 and UC2 because so console always worked
and do not forget we are having THESE outcomes on a modified TLoU old-generation engine which is revealing of ND prestige
(Can't imagine how new IP on new engine will look like)
EDIT: hope it will be capped 30fps with some more effects than 60fps with some cuts here and there
I just can't see the final build having present performance AND 60fps together
Pai Pai Master
Banned
He didn't say it was. 60fps is the target and he said if it retains the image quality of the demo at 60fps then it would be more advanced than people are giving it credit for currently.
That's a big if a year out, considering it's 30 right now.
Of course it wasn't, it's still a year out. We know there targeting 60fps, and bumping up the frame rate takes place near the end of the dev cycle. It's obvious they lock/cap the frame rate of the demo @ 30 since its the first time being revealed instead of uncapped an have the frame rate flying everywhere.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Well, I would expect that to change.. You don't want old models and textures for a presentation. Pretty easy to swap.
But you already had PBR implemented into the graphics engine (which took a lot of time). That's not the same as putting PBR in an engine that doesn't have it and then redoing all assets to use the PBR change in 2 days.
Dictator93
Member
Is it obvious though? No one from ND has said, "yeah this will totally run at a flat 60 at release, we just capped it at half of that for the purposes of a smooth demonstration."
Until that is said, I get the ever so eerie feeling that this game will be a capped 30. Because that is all I have been shown and what also seems realistic given its current IQ and graphical effects quality. There is no magic.
It is hard to give credit to a hypothetical reality.
You can do it. EVE and Warframe are both patching in PBR
Dictator93
Member
And Ryse added in PBR in the summer before its release (demod originally with an engine that was more similar to 3.58 and not 3.6). So it is 100% doable, especially for in-production games.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I don't know how Naughty Dog work and neither do you. UE3 doesn't support PBR by default but Rocksteady maanged to implement it in Arkham Knight in their custom version of UE3. I f Rocksteady are able to freely modify a game engine they ddin't create and add stuff it was not supposed to have why do you think ND won't be able to do the same especially if they are the owner and creator of their own engine ?
This
and this:
Can see your truuue colors
Shining through
Dictator93
Member
Have they outlined their workflow yet and said it is PBR?
To me it looks like the samaritan UE3 engine. Which is not PBR.
Maninthemirror
Banned
seen your post in the other topic and you are not grasping a fundamentalic basic of game presentation
1. Realtime video based on the game engine and assets
2. Cutscene
3. Gameplay where we see HUD and QET events and where the player controls movements
The E3 reveal was 1.
The Drake Brother scene was 2.
Everything else was 3.
1. uses all the assets and the engine to make a video sort of like Photomode. we know playing the game it doesnt look like the Photomode but it looks almost as good.
2. Uses all assets which will be in gameplay but non-controllable, this has higher level of graphics than gameplay but less than realtime as there are no variable physics and AI at play
3. Implements Graphics, Physics and AI in one and resources are shifted away from Graphics and into other elements of play.
I would rank
1. as 100% of graphical capability
2. as 90% of graphical capability
3. as 80% of the graphical capability
and we are 1 year from launch so that 80% could easily move near 90%.
if people realise these 3 simple facts of game presentation they will realise there is no 'DOWNGRADE' as there was no gameplay and controllable elements in E3 reveal.
You can call it a downgrade when the RELEASED version of the game does not match the graphics of Saturday's video
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Why is it so hard for people to understand this? Are they that delusional? No other developer has been able to achieve these next-gen features on this hardware at 60fps so far. What makes people believe ND is magical and can extract out that from this limited hardware?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I think so and many mentioned that too. Their materials now look physically accurate, check the latest trailers.
VisceralBowl
Member
What here couldn't (or hasn't) been done in the past 10 years?
Resolution and 30fps isn't what I think of when I think of something being technologically impressive and professionals in the graphics industry seem to think so too since Ryse has won awards.
If I make a game with PS2 level graphics that runs at 2k resolution, 60fps, and great AA for current gen consoles, would that be the best looking game of the generation?
Dictator93
Member
Well for me it is hard to say when something is or is not unless I see lots of material variation rather than "rainy night metal."
As far as I know, it is using the Samaritan engine version of U.E.3 (you can see the reflection shadowing for instance and the per object motionblur added then), which is not PBR. I think I would stick by that before commenting further.
Escaping a grenade blowing away a shelter while running for your life jumping and hanging like a Tarzan of sort and landing on a mercenary a level below in a 3 seconds action orgasm?
To me this is next gen Uncharted
EDIT: love also enemies changing position vertically
Maninthemirror
Banned
combine with the fact that this was a presentation and the build is likely a few weeks old.
if it didnt go below 30 during gameplay it might be running between 30 and 45 if unlocked.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Not in 2 days.
True but considering ND hasn't commented on the target in a while, I think that it'll probably stay at 30. If it does, I think we'll see some significant visual additions to this current build or this is close to how the final game would look but at 60fps.
They've got 10-11 months.
Maninthemirror
Banned
the question arises. do you want THIS level of graphics at 60 fps or even better quality of graphics at 30 fps
VFX_Veteran
Banned
You can't tell whether a material is physically accurate by eyeballing it. LOL!
Putting physically based shaders on something doesn't mean it's energy conserving. You would be hard-pressed to tell a Phong from a GGX model just by looking at it in motion. You can have a roughness value on a Phong model too. You can also have a fresnel term and it still be non-energy conserving.
Pound_lb003
Member
If they hit 1080p60 looking like that, I'll call it a generational leap.
Shin Johnpv
Member
That's not Global Illumination though. That's an effect of lighting up more than just the flashlights direct light path. Global Illumination is more than that. Plus the light radius on that flash light is huge and I think what he's seeing and calling Global Illumination is just the out edges of the light radius of that flashlight. In some cases there seems to be some light bounce, but that's not all GI is. Call it a Global illumination like effect. Don't call it GI.
TLoU has a GI like effect, it doesn't have GI.
Words mean things, and if you say they have it moving anatomically correct and it isn't then you're wrong. I just watched it again, to me, it feels more like good deformation than an anatomically correct movement. Which is great it's awesome to see better deformation on video game characters. I wouldn't call it anatomically correct though.
There's definitely a disconnect IMHO between the neck muscles and the head, things are deforming better than they have in the past, but the muscle isn't stretching and squashing the way it should. I'm only expecting that though because the guy claims its moving anatomically correct.
Its definitely really good deformations, and an improvement over past generations, that doesn't make it anatomically correct though, so don't claim that.
You realize many high end feature level rigs have muscle simulations going on, and are REALLY accurate anatomically in how skin moves on muscle and what's going on. That's NOT going on here. There are some fantastic deformations going on, and they've got it rigged to fake some really cool under skin activity, but its not doing a skin over muscle and bone simulation here.
You understand there are effects, and way of faking things, and then there's actually doing those things. You can't claim something is doing something when its not. That's not being technically accurate.
If you're going to do a video like that, and push that information you need to be technically accurate.
Either works for me, I just hope they add some excellent motion blur like The Order's if they go 30.
True
Hitting solid 30fps now is refreshing, it means they already have a solid engine
But 60fps is truly another thing and I just can't see them hitting 60fps without sacrifices of sort
I remember the first AssassinsCreed build having framerate issues until the last month then being addressed in the final form but still having solid 60fps is not that easy even if ND have a full year
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Dictator93
Member
Yes, the demo is running at locked 30 fps. But locked 30 fps =/= average 30fps. We don't know, what the real average fps is at the current state of development maybe 35, maybe 40, or maybe 51.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
TBH it looks amazing if they get it running at 60fps. If the game is released at 30fps then I can say I expected more graphically from ND.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Completely disagree here. TLOU is using GI and so was that demo. That is one thing in that demo analysis that I agree with. You can challenge it if you want, but I believe it is definitely using that flashlight dynamic light probe trick in that cave.
Dictator93
Member
How did it work before exactly? Spinning the camera would move the flashlight although nate's hands were elsewhere?
Muppet of a Man
Member
Shitty Cavuto headline, Eurogamer?
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Ew.
If this game cuts back 60fps for some stupid, subtle, yet demanding bells and whistles, I am going to be disappointed.
It wont be a 'generational leap', but it will certainly be raising the bar. As it is(at 30fps), I'd say its just meeting the current top of the bar. Maybe a nudge.