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[rambis]

The argument is about the standards set (by other games or ND themselves with that original video).

The game on its own looks great already.

I honestly think it's more of people running home with what ND said than anything they actually said.


http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_4_a_thiefs_end_2014_e3_trailer/

All footage you see in the trailer was captured completely in engine. That’s Nathan Drake rendered in 1080p full glory using the power of our PS4 engine. All footage you see in the trailer was captured completely in engine. We’re targeting 60fps for Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End and as you can see the visual fidelity for our character models will reach new heights.

We've known what this language has meant for every uncharted game previously. We know what it means for every developer that says this about a trailer for every other game. But now its some highly convenient amnesia and "downgrade-a-tons" ?

 

[SuperDowns]

Agree. That was my initial impressions. The game doesn't look as good as I thought it was going to be for a generational leap, it looks just OK to me, nothing special. Kind of disappointed to be honest.

Honestly DF articles and comments like this on Alpha games like Uncharted and Zelda....

It is a wonder that developers show us any footage at all.

 

[temesgen77]

At this point, I'd just like an answer from ND if they're still going for 60fps with the final game or not. If they are, this is an incredible standard for 60fps visuals. If not, they should through some high quality object motion blur in there.

I agree with you but think motion blur can be added later or could simply be turned off atm.

 

[swazzyswess]

Half of those shots are from cut scenes which don't really count imo... :/

Yeah, all the Uncharted games have higher-quality cinematics. How can people complain about a downgrade when we didn't even see gameplay until Saturday? I think they're confused about what "in engine" means.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Motion Blur would look HORRIBLE in an adventure game and its good for a game like Gears or War or the Order which are over the shoulder.

 

[Dictator93]

I honestly think it's more of people running home with what ND said than anything they actually said.


http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_4_a_thiefs_end_2014_e3_trailer/




We've known what this language has meant for every uncharted game previously. We know what it means for every developer that says this about a trailer for every other game. But now its some highly convenient amnesia and "downgrade-a-tons" ?

I mean, if you go back in time you will probably find posts about me complaining about the word usage of "in-engine" vs "real time."

Gamingbolt maintains that they asked, and it was

running in real time on the PlayStation 4 and it was all in-engine.

Once again, though, I feel ike we should not have to fight with devs with them using such wording as that. At the end of the day, a lot of people leave with the impression that it was a realtime rendering representing the graphical quality of assets and such(@ 60fps to boot).

Motion Blur would look HORRIBLE in an adventure game and its good for a game like Gears or War or the Order which are over the shoulder.

Uncharter 2, 3, and TLOU all use obmb. Did it look horrible in those games?

 

[daxter01]

Hrmm, I really wonder how they do it. It does seem to work at a lower update rate than the frame rate. That is for certain. I have no idea what it is doing though.

apparently its using VPL( Virtual point lights) technique

 

[entremet]

No 60FPS would be a letdown for me.

 

[injurai]

It's not a new IP, they are making a sequal in line with what the series is about.

The gameplay looks like a great logical progression and improvement, while staying true to the series identity.

It's ND first ps4 title, go back and look at U1 then fuck off with your graphix talk.

So yes, it looks like more of a proper leap than most other purely next-gen sequel entries.

 

[Mass Effect]

Looks pretty amazing to me. I just hope it ends up being 60fps. If not, oh well.

 

[Etnos]

If youre basing your whole expectations of next gen consoles on PC hardware then that's your fault for doing it wrong. I find it hard to believe that your "dated" sentiments would be echoed by any gamer that has been console exclusive. 2nd generation software is looking phenomenal IMO.

The thing is PC Gaming is not a niche exclusive thing anymore, a lot of people have jumped into PC, actually PC already beated consoles revenue wise. If the 7 million concurrent users on steam number is true, Consoles are becoming the niche.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Agree. That was my initial impressions. The game doesn't look as good as I thought it was going to be for a generational leap, it looks just OK to me, nothing special. Kind of disappointed to be honest.

You people are going to bankrupt this industry.


Who cares if the graphics arent mind-blowing. This is the most impressive Uncharted's Gameplay has ever been and its all because of the PS4.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

No 60FPS would be a letdown for me.

Would it really? The PS4 isnt that strong. Locked 30 please.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

If you reread my posts (without the defensive mechanism), you'll see I'm questioning certain people's comments..

I am not being defensive i am just tired of your nonsense

I never said redo assets with those features. I specifically mentioned PBR -- which does require redoing assets. I mentioned physics, particles, animation, etc.. taking time to change and isn't something that's just tacked on in a couple of hours..

This what i said
As you can see i was talking about changing or addinng things over the course of the year .

I not expecting 60fps but a year is a huge amount of time for them to add stuff which also depending on how the do there development .
They don't have to redo there assets to get better lighting , AA ( this they already got cover) , physics , particles , animation ,motion blur etc etc which all effect how a game looks.

This is what you said

That is incorrect. You can't just add physics without changing the dynamics of the game. AI has to react, etc.. same with particles being added and animation. Changing materials is a big deal as well.

No where in your post did you say you were talking about a couple of hours and that does not even matter cause we were taking about next year .
Then you said they have to be in there in first place which just stupid cause of course physics , particles , animation already in the game .

Where in the above did I say ND can't add PBR? Are we seeing things now?

This came about because of you saying the game can't look much better because pre alpha don't matter and trying to down playing people saying it can .

But you already had PBR implemented into the graphics engine (which took a lot of time). That's not the same as putting PBR in an engine that doesn't have it and then redoing all assets to use the PBR change in 2 days.

Once again no one was saying they going do it for this demo just that they have enough time to .
They can add a whole bunch of stuff to make the game look much better if the decide to stick to 30fps.

Deck-13 is a company that has probably taxed the hardware further than any non-open world game I know. Yes, they are small.. which implies their brillance in bringing out features not seen in games at all. For example, UC4 doesn't have true ray-marching volume lights that propagate color and shadow. They did though. Or all the other particle, PhysX effects they did that hasn't been seen yet. Wind blowing.. all done already AND a PBR extension already made and ready to go. Consoles didn't take too kindly to the advanced features though.. they choked in framerate. So please stop trying to demean the smaller companies. It's really poor taste.

I don't know how me saying a company is bigger and has more money and resources to get something done faster than a smaller company is demeaning.
Which why it make no sense to compare them to ND .

 

[rambis]

The thing is PC Gaming is not a niche exclusive thing anymore, a lot of people have jumped into PC, actually PC already beated consoles revenue wise. If the 7 million concurrent users on steam number is true, Consoles are becoming the niche.

Well the monsters of the PC industry look alot more like runescape, minecraft and wow than Uncharted and The Order. But anyway what does this have to do with anything?

 

[Etnos]

Well the monsters of the PC industry look alot more like runescape, minecraft and wow than Uncharted and The Order. But anyway what does this have to do with anything?

What longevity tech wise does these new consoles really have, considering that uncharted demo is the performance "Benchmark" for next gen.

Also, no need to get that defensive... runescapet, minecraft and wow? hee you know that is not true, but whatever. If so the console market revenue is even more dependant on COD & FIFA than any PC exclusive is to that ecosystem.

 

[Smash88]

People really need to stop posting that garbage "dissection" video where he just throws big graphic buzzwords. Sad thing is people will believe it. Closed it after 30 seconds of hearing him spout "tessellation" when it clearly wasn't.

 

[Final Verdict]

Things must be slow at old DF. Maybe they should ask this question when the games not in a pre alpha state

Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release.

You can look a Destiny's first gameplay showing at the PS4 reveal, or E3 2013, and compare it to the final product over a year and a half later as a good example of this.

Anyways, I thought it looked fantastic, and like they pointed out, the gameplay was noticeably refined!

 

[swazzyswess]

What longevity tech wise does these new consoles really have.

Also, no need to get that defensive... runescapet, minecraft and wow? hee you know that is not true, but whatever. If so the console market revenue is even more dependant on COD than any PC exclusive is to that ecosystem.

The person who reported that PC revenue passed console revenue (although he didn't provide specifics) also reported: " DFC reports that their Top 20 list of PC games for 2013, in terms of usage, doesn’t include a single game actually released in 2013. DFC says that MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) titles like League of Legends and DotA 2 'dominate everything else by an order of magnitude in terms of more usage than other products,' followed by MMOs, strategy games, and shooters."

That would indicate console longevity due to their supposed lack of power doesn't take into account that the most popular PC games are relatively undemanding. Plus, look at the rig of the average Steam user. Last I checked, it's actually weaker than the PS4/XB1.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Never said I wasn't pleased. I think it looks great and am ranking it there with the best looking games out there anywhere right now, on any platform. But at 30fps, I just wouldn't call it 'pushing the game forward'. After seeing games like The Order, DriveClub and Ryse, the standards for graphics are just very high right now.

If its matching those games, *plus* doing 60fps, then I'll say they're blowing away everyone else. Until then, I cant say that. Being realistic here.

The graphics dont need to be blowing everyone away man.

The gameplay should be doing that!!

 

[R3TRODYCE]

It's nice looking but The Order looks better which makes sense given the level design.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release.

You can look a Destiny's first gameplay showing at the PS4 reveal, or E3 2013, and compare it to the final product over a year and a half later as a good example of this.

You can also see games that also improve a bunch GOW3 is one of them.
Same can be said for UC3 , motor storm 2 and few more.
Destiny was a cross platform game that was also going for parity .

 

[Infinite Xero]

Is it relatively safe to assume that if Naughty Dog can get UC4 running at 60FPS, it will most likely look like the recently released gameplay video and not the debut trailer?

 

[RooMHM]

Still don t understand why people already praised animations in any Uncharted games. They always looked alright but not at all inaccordance to the environment. Always felt like sliding.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

So, people who are disappointed in the graphics of Uncharted 4 (Pre-Alpha build), I'd be interesting in seeing games they feel are better/more impressive right now? While I wouldn't say that the game has the absolute best details in every aspect, when you take into account the details it does have, the animations it has, the dynamism the level has the how large the level is, I just don't know what is better.

And even if there are a couple games that are overall more impressive, I still think you need to judge it in the context of it being in a Pre-Alpha state. This game is going to release almost a year from now, and that is if it isn't delayed.

I really would like some examples though. Because I'm confused here.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I am not being defensive i am just tired of your nonsense

Put me on your 'ignore' list. Problem solved. Not going to waste time arguing about this.

 

[Etnos]

That would indicate console longevity due to their supposed lack of power doesn't take into account that the most popular PC games are relatively undemanding. Plus, look at the rig of the average Steam user. Last I checked, it's actually weaker than the PS4/XB1.

Well yeah, that is in fact worth considering, at the end good games are good games no matter what hardware they running on.

 

[orioto]

I'm happy the DF article notes how impressive is teh demo in term of dynamism and gameplay. i'm really critical with Uncharted games and this demo gave me a strong desire to play this one.

the graphics are, i think exactly what they should be on this hardware, regarding what they are achieving. I'm sure when we see the thing running (not compressed) it will be way more impressive, just due to being able to see textures and foliage correctly.

It's a little sad that ND acted, surprisingly, in an almost Nintendo way, trying to showcase the content and gameplay possibility, and put that in front of the pretty cut scenes etc.. and people cries..

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release.

You can look a Destiny's first gameplay showing at the PS4 reveal, or E3 2013, and compare it to the final product over a year and a half later as a good example of this.

Anyways, I thought it looked fantastic, and like they pointed out, the gameplay was noticeably refined!

Well, look-a-there. Someone has the same insight as me.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

I'm surprised, the gameplay looks wonderful. Huge improvement on that front and I'm someone who likes the way the series plays.

It's just a personal preference. I can't stand games with insta-regen health. It leads to what I would consider bad enemy encounter design, where the developers just throw waves of individually-unthreatening enemies at you. Tension is shattered when I can just hide behind any of the conveniently-placed waist-high structures and be back to full health in five seconds. There were some other things that bothered me, but they are more nit-picking.

 

[-griffy-]

Still don t understand why people already praised animations in any Uncharted games. They always looked alright but not at all inaccordance to the environment. Always felt like sliding.

I don't know, they have some pretty crazy and impressive animation systems in their games. Very dynamic, context sensitive and intelligent blending of one animation to the next. Little stuff like almost stepping off a ledge will start the walk/drop animation and then seamlessly blend to Nate pulling the one foot back while slightly off balance. He won't just jump from a great height and land perfectly, but he might stumble a bit when he lands. He'll duck his head when he's being shot at, put his hand against the wall to steady him when in a moving boat in stormy seas, raise an arm to shield his eyes when passing by a roaring fire, flinch when taking fire behind cover, or dynamically enter "stealth" when approaching an unaware enemy.

The UC4 demo we see seems to be taking it to the next level. It looks like they are calculating trajectory and speed of jumps from takeoff to destination to dynamically animate the hands/feet so Nate appropriately anticipates impact/landing. The climbing animations look improved, changing feet position dynamically and more realistically then previous entries as he climbs and changes direction, the climbing pick/knife adding more complexity as he reaches, attaches, and shifts hands/feet positions as he maneuvers to the next hand hold, etc. This doesn't even touch their facial animation.

Little details like these, and the sheer breadth of animation and how it all seamlessly blends together contextually (something they've been working on since Jak & Daxter), and considering much of this animation is key-framed by hand (performance capture is used for cutscenes, but I believe gameplay remains hand animated for ND games) makes the respect Naughty Dog gets for animation perfectly understandable. Their animation is uncommonly high quality by any objective measure.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Agree. That was my initial impressions. The game doesn't look as good as I thought it was going to be for a generational leap, it looks just OK to me, nothing special. Kind of disappointed to be honest.

You're disappointed that a pre-alpha build doesn't look like a generational leap? OH MY! D:

Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release.

You can look a Destiny's first gameplay showing at the PS4 reveal, or E3 2013, and compare it to the final product over a year and a half later as a good example of this.

Anyways, I thought it looked fantastic, and like they pointed out, the gameplay was noticeably refined!

So you're comparing a multiplatform showing and release to a first party showing?
Nearly all first party PS4 games have looked much better at release than they did when first shown. Just look at Driveclub's E3 showing, KZ:SF's first level shown, and Infamous' first time shown. Now compare those builds to the retail builds and tell me with a straight face that there was no improvement in graphics.

 

[Seanspeed]

The graphics dont need to be blowing everyone away man.

The gameplay should be doing that!!

a) you're in a thread specifically about graphics, which a lot of us care about seperate to gameplay

b) you're in a thread about Uncharted...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Hm....

The talk of a more open game has piqued my interest.

As someone who rates the UC games in their chronological order (1 >>>>> 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>3), I might bite on 4. I had 2 major issues with 2 and 3:

1) The sloppy controls and average gunplay that I forgave 1 for, were still present in 2 and 3. This is what I call, Grand Theft Auto syndrome.

2) Each game got more and more linear. I loved the level design in the original game because while it was linear, the game didn't feel all that linear, at least to me. The levels encourage exploration and I always found myself just wandering around having a geeze.

If 4 can return to the level design that I loved about the original (but even MORE open) and tighten up the controls and gunplay, then I think I might grab UC4.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Put me on your 'ignore' list. Problem solved. Not going to waste time arguing about this.

You are not going to waste your time arguing because everything i said there is fact .
It just shows how biased and how much of a hypocrite you are .
You quote people who agree with you and when others don't you just ignore certain parts of there post
And no i won't put you on ignore because i don't believe in doing that but i will post something when i don't agree with what you are saying.

 

[Fancy Clown]

People that don't think this looks like a generational leap are whack. The graphics are insane! The amount of tiny little details from hair physics and musculature on characters, to deforming objects because of bullet fire and all that fantastic foliage. There are other games coming out soon that look comparably good (or perhaps better in some respects), like The Order, but overall combined with the amazing art direction it looks like one of the best, if not THE best, console games to release at this point.

And the graphical jump between U3 and this is much bigger than from 1 to 2 (which is to be expected given the new hardware).

And of course, the most important take away from the demo is how good the gameplay and AI looks. The fact that the game looks fucking incredible as well just makes it that much better.

 

[Pound_lb003]

How do we know that UC4 doesn't already use PBR? Is there some telltale sign of that, or did they say as much?

Pretty sure PBR requires textures being made from photoreference, not hand made.

So when someone draws a specular or normal map by hand, they aren't physically based, they're artistic estimations.

 

[Hendrick's]

I wonder if ND was trying for a more realistic look instead of stylized if people wouldn't be singing a different tune.

 

[TheGuardian]

Pretty sure PBR requires textures being made from photoreference, not hand made.

So when someone draws a specular or normal map by hand, they aren't physically based, they're artistic estimations.

Sorry, but that's absoluty wrong. How the inputs are generated (hand painted, photo reference, procedural, etc) has no relation whatsoever to PBR. What's important is how the lighting model behaves with the inputs it's given. A good example for this being Monster's University.

 

[ROMAD]

A whole lot of convincing trying to be done here. Looks like a lot of you are underwelmed!

 

[TheGuardian]

Graphics usually do not improve much from the first showing to release.

You can look a Destiny's first gameplay showing at the PS4 reveal, or E3 2013, and compare it to the final product over a year and a half later as a good example of this.

Anyways, I thought it looked fantastic, and like they pointed out, the gameplay was noticeably refined!

Really depends on the title. I've had to hack out demos in the past for trade shows that ended up looking vastly inferior to the final game.

 

[TAJ]

in my honest humble opinion, if ND can't get it to 60fps, then they aren't improving as a developer.

if they can.....this game will literally break minds!

/i say we pray

Don't worry... if there's a scene where an explosion drops the frame rate to the high 40s for half a second then half of GAF will say it's not a 60fps game.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Sorry, but that's absoluty wrong. How the inputs are generated (hand painted, photo reference, procedural, etc) has no relation whatsoever to PBR. What's important is how the lighting model behaves with the inputs it's given. A good example for this being Monster's University.

I'm happy to be wrong, but I'd love to know HOW I am wrong. How is Monsters University a good example? And how is what you're saying, different from what I am saying?

The whole point of multiple textures maps is precisely to inform the lighting on how to behave when rendering an object.

 

[IcyEyes]

This game looks like a generational leap and it's not a opinion.
The whole demo showed on stage was so impressive that luckily the "funny" death (funny because of the glitch) showed that it was the real game, otherwise it could have looked more like a pre-made scene than an hands on.

If some people are not impressed by that demo, well, I don't know what to say.

 

[Seanspeed]

Don't worry... if there's a scene where an explosion drops the frame rate to the high 40s for half a second then half of GAF will say it's not a 60fps game.

A tiny minority at most. Hardly half of GAF.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I mean, if you go back in time you will probably find posts about me complaining about the word usage of "in-engine" vs "real time."

Gamingbolt maintains that they asked, and it was

Once again, though, I feel ike we should not have to fight with devs with them using such wording as that. At the end of the day, a lot of people leave with the impression that it was a realtime rendering representing the graphical quality of assets and such(@ 60fps to boot).



Uncharter 2, 3, and TLOU all use obmb. Did it look horrible in those games?

the same level? yes, its not even close to the same level of blur as the order.

 

[Amey]

UE4 cave demo for comparison. Thr's some great indirect light in here.

UE4 Cave

 

[nycgamer4ever]

The Order...

Yeah well the order releases in two months. Uncharted is end of the year. If you think the graphics won't get better you are in for a surprise.

 

[Lord Error]

Uncharter 2, 3, and TLOU all use obmb. Did it look horrible in those games?

I honestly think they are still undecided whether to keep trying to make the game be 60FPS (in which case they wouldn't have to have object motion blur). For this demo to never-ever drop a frame below 30, it would have be running at least at 40-45FPS average.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Well, look-a-there. Someone has the same insight as me.

Please just stop already. You've been doing nothing but downplaying UC4 graphics with BS and upselling Ass Creed unity. Anyone who says graphics don't improve from pre-alpha to finished product either are idiots or have no clue as to how game development works. These developers crunch until the very last minute and often times the games go gold a couple weeks before launch. So many games are even being delayed.