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DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis

Nope. The multi channel echo cancellation chip is used by Kinect. The audio chip is purely motivated by lessons learned from 360 where developers used 50% of the 360's cores to mix audio.

Well, unlike the Xbox360, the first Xbox had a dedicated audio processor and it was quite powerful for the time. I don't know why they went a step backward with the Xbox360, but it's not like they didn't know the importance of an audio DSP before.
 
Full scale Multi tasking seems like a bit of a "nobody asked for" feature in a home console. And that seems like it will be the one sucking up most of the reserved resources. What is MS trying to accomplish here? To have somebody play a game and watch tv at the same time? That sounds unnecessary. 2 games running at once? Even more unnecessary. It's hard to wrap my head around any sort of point that validates it.

I've been thinking the exact same things.


At this point I've found myself satisfied with the power both these consoles will offer, and of course I'm intrigued by the extra power Orbis seems to be packing. I'm just super curious about one thing. Durango backwards compatibility with 360 software. I'm not happy at all about the Orbis streaming solution, so now I'm just holding onto a thread of hope Microsoft are smarter than that. I know some people see it as trivial, but not having my collections of games available on the new machine really bums me out.
 

Sulik2

Member
A bunch of interesting info from bgassassin. Thanks for sharing. I wonder why Microsoft has decided to put so much emphasis on computing power vs. gpu. With next gen I was always under the assumption that processing power was more than powerful enough already it was GPU that was going to need to really kick it up a notch to push nextgen graphics.

The online only thing could really suck depending on where you live, but looking years into the future as internet connections become even more common its not going to matter.
 
Full scale Multi tasking seems like a bit of a "nobody asked for" feature in a home console. And that seems like it will be the one sucking up most of the reserved resources. What is MS trying to accomplish here? To have somebody play a game and watch tv at the same time? That sounds unnecessary. 2 games running at once? Even more unnecessary. It's hard to wrap my head around any sort of point that validates it.
Picture-in-picture video chat during gaming on Kinect 2.0 overlaid using a display plane.
 
So a video image overlaying your game?

I think most people would say "no thanks" to that idea.

I don't think it's a bad idea. Imagine something like a google hangout where thumbnails of 4 of your online buddies are stacked on one side of the screen (like one of those side-screen modes for Apps in Win8). It wouldn't occlude too much of your view. And imagine that each thumbnail could be showing either the videofeed of them playing, or a live shot of the gameplay from their system. Also imagine that none of you need to be playing the same thing, so if one friend playing Just Cause 3 says, "Oh man, the craziest shit just happened, you guys have got to see this!" everyone can pause their game, select his game view, go fullscreen and watch as he scrubs back a few minutes to show you a replay from that had been automatically saved by the system.

Or imagine you're playing a game and your sister tries to call you on Skype. Since it's linked to your GamerTag you get a ntification in the middle of your game. Instead of having to save, close the game and call her back with the dedicated Skype app, you can just hit the button to accept and your game pauses in the background and a video stream from your sister pops up to take over most of the screen. You can talk like that, or if she just wanted to chat, you can shrink he box to one side and keep playing.

Or imagine you're waiting to watch a baseball game that has been rain relayed. They haven't cancelled, but they're spending a half hour waiting for things to clear up. In that case you can pop into CoD, or whatever, and pin a live video feed from ESPN to the corner of your screen so you can see right when they get ready to start playing.

I can think of lots of uses.
 

Alx

Member
Full scale Multi tasking seems like a bit of a "nobody asked for" feature in a home console. And that seems like it will be the one sucking up most of the reserved resources. What is MS trying to accomplish here? To have somebody play a game and watch tv at the same time? That sounds unnecessary. 2 games running at once? Even more unnecessary. It's hard to wrap my head around any sort of point that validates it.

I had a similar opinion, but it just struck me that there was a common situation when I would have wanted to be able to multitask : waiting in lobbies. Especially for fighting games, where you sometimes spend more time waiting for an opponent than fighting him.
Of course some games have their own system of letting you play offline while it's looking for opponents, but it's far from standard.
 

MCD

Junior Member
It's a MS product, they released things like win8 and these tablets and phones nobody bought.

Xbox and Kinect are different beasts. I bet ya that most who bought any of these two do not associate it with any MS product.

Speaking of Surface, I would scream like a little fan girl if the team designed Durango. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PANOS PANAY ON STAGE
 
It's a MS product, they released things like win8 and these tablets and phones nobody bought.

Dude... why are you even posting? Add something to the discussion or get back under that bridge.

How so? What is it going to do gaming-wise that'll be utterly indispensable?

We will see. That is the challenge for developers.

From the leaks we have now, it look like a machine with a very broad spectrum, more like a hybrid between PC and console. Zero cost OS features, interfacing with W8, WP8 and/or tablets. HDMI in. Skype build in? Always on human interface stuff? Support for WinRT apps? I can think of many things that devs can do that would be unique.

Maybe Orbis will have better graphics, but gameplay wise the Durango will offer a lot more "features". Will they be worth it? I dunno. Ask me end of next gen. But providing building blocks for devs is always a good thing. That is basically how the 360 managed to sell like crazy as well. MS is just taking it to the next level.
 

Pug

Member
Windows 8 is probably the worst thing they managed to build in a while...it's clearly a product of a lost company, no direction at all.

I've just bought the Nokia Lumia 920, first time I've used a windows phone (and the first time i've bought a Nokia smartphone) and I must say it's superb. Oh and gaf has a neat tile link.
 

Tomcat

Member
It's a MS product, they released things like win8 and these tablets and phones nobody bought.

windows 8 are selling at windows 7 numbers. You know win7 the best selling os of all time.
as for surface it wasn't meant to sell at ipad numbers because they don't want to alienate their oems.
windows phone 8 market share is slowly increasing. its a tough battle though because ios and android had a big head start.
 
We will see. That is the challenge for developers.

From the leaks we have now, it look like a machine with a very broad spectrum, more like a hybrid between PC and console. Zero cost OS features, interfacing with W8, WP8 and/or tablets. HDMI in. Skype build in? Always on human interface stuff? Support for WinRT apps? I can think of many things that devs can do that would be unique.

Maybe Orbis will have better graphics, but gameplay wise the Durango will offer a lot more "features". Will they be worth it? I dunno. Ask me end of next gen. But providing building blocks for devs is always a good thing. That is basically how the 360 managed to sell like crazy as well. MS is just taking it to the next level.

This is entirely subjective, but I don't care about any of those things. What Sony achieved with the Vita OS is basically all I'd want and even then I don't use those features very much. Extra things are nice of course, but at this moment in time I'm failing to see how they are relevant to me. Durango feels like a 'stuff you don't actually want' box.

Of the products mentioned, I only own Windows 8 and I've basically customized it to look like Windows 7. There is no chance in hell that i'll be interacting with it.
 

Ominym

Banned
Lol you serious? This is the console maker that sold a separate overpriced accessory for wireless.

It would be insane to think that if the console required always on DRM that WiFi capability wouldn't be included in the box. There is literally no way that would happen.
 

Razgreez

Member
I don't think it's a bad idea. Imagine something like a google hangout where thumbnails of 4 of your online buddies are stacked on one side of the screen (like one of those side-screen modes for Apps in Win8). It wouldn't occlude too much of your view. And imagine that each thumbnail could be showing either the videofeed of them playing, or a live shot of the gameplay from their system. Also imagine that none of you need to be playing the same thing, so if one friend playing Just Cause 3 says, "Oh man, the craziest shit just happened, you guys have got to see this!" everyone can pause their game, select his game view, go fullscreen and watch as he scrubs back a few minutes to show you a replay from that had been automatically saved by the system.

Or imagine you're playing a game and your sister tries to call you on Skype. Since it's linked to your GamerTag you get a ntification in the middle of your game. Instead of having to save, close the game and call her back with the dedicated Skype app, you can just hit the button to accept and your game pauses in the background and a video stream from your sister pops up to take over most of the screen. You can talk like that, or if she just wanted to chat, you can shrink he box to one side and keep playing.

Or imagine you're waiting to watch a baseball game that has been rain relayed. They haven't cancelled, but they're spending a half hour waiting for things to clear up. In that case you can pop into CoD, or whatever, and pin a live video feed from ESPN to the corner of your screen so you can see right when they get ready to start playing.

I can think of lots of uses.

Basically everything you've referred to is already done by ,with regards to application/game minimizing and switching, the Vita or, in the case of picture in picture and skype overlay integration, by TVs for quite some time. Game to game minimizing/switching seems like a very large waste of resources on the other hand unless it's handled like "save states" where the exact data is stored and you can literally continue on from that exact time-stamp in the game. This leads to compatibility complications though since there would be so many occasions where you'd have to disable such a function. This is also not actually true minimizing either since you're completely closing the game and then starting up another.

I must admit i've tried picture in picture gaming while waiting for a specific sport event to start and it doesn't work very well even when you can adjust the size of the picture boxes on the fly. Even the smallest overlay just ends up being annoying since games very rarely don't make use of every corner of the screen for extended periods of time, especially competitive/online games.

It's also very difficult/annoying to respond to messages while playing online and even party chat only works because it doesn't take up screen-space and affect your focus too much. Party chat that now takes up valuable screen-space? Nice idea in theory (for offline gaming only), the contrary in reality (for gaming on the whole)
 
I must admit i've tried picture in picture gaming while waiting for a specific sport event to start and it doesn't work very well even when you can adjust the size of the picture boxes on the fly. Even the smallest overlay just ends up being annoying since games very rarely don't make use of every corner of the screen for extended periods of time, especially competitive/online games.

It's also very difficult/annoying to respond to messages while playing online and even party chat only works because it doesn't take up screen-space and affect your focus too much. Party chat that now takes up valuable screen-space? Nice idea in theory (for offline gaming only), the contrary in reality (for gaming on the whole)

Well, I think having the OS, and more importantly, the games built to be aware of these scenarios would make a big difference.
 

thuway

Member
MS integrated WiFi N with the slim.

Welcome to 2010.

Pre 2010 was a disaster if you wanted wireless in any form. Wireless headset, wifi, or something as stupid as a wirless plug and play solution. I can't believe rhetoric like this. Microsoft is known for the most draconian nickel and diming practices in the industry. The 360 is a hell of a machine, but that doesn't take away their corporate ethos on bending you over for every penny you have. Wake up. Sony and Nintendo aren't any better, but the last I checked they don't charge me play online, expand my hard drive, use my router, or charge my controller.
 

Rourkey

Member
Pre 2010 was a disaster if you wanted wireless in any form. Wireless headset, wifi, or something as stupid as a wirless plug and play solution. I can't believe rhetoric like this. Microsoft is known for the most draconian nickel and diming practices in the industry. The 360 is a hell of a machine, but that doesn't take away their corporate ethos on bending you over for every penny you have. Wake up. Sony and Nintendo aren't any better, but the last I checked they don't charge me play online, expand my hard drive, use my router, or charge my controller.

I'll never forgive Sony for charging me £30 for a memory card that you needed to buy to play any games, they all have to make money on the accessories because the consoles are normally sold at a lost for a few years, its as much for the retailers benefit as their own.
 

thuway

Member
I'll never forgive Sony for charging me £30 for a memory card that you needed to buy to play any games, they all have to make money on the accessories because the consoles are normally sold at a lost for a few years, its as much for the retailers benefit as their own.

Trust me, I don't blame you. In terms of severity though, Microsoft takes the cake for completely obliterating the spectrum of value this generation. PS3 and Wii U have their annoyances and traps, but I just can't have a heart for people pretending as if this is "OK".

Edit: 50 dollars a year to access online gaming is fucking stupid. I am sorry, I will never ever pay that price.
 

Bullza2o

Member
Pre 2010 was a disaster if you wanted wireless in any form. Wireless headset, wifi, or something as stupid as a wirless plug and play solution. I can't believe rhetoric like this. Microsoft is known for the most draconian nickel and diming practices in the industry. The 360 is a hell of a machine, but that doesn't take away their corporate ethos on bending you over for every penny you have. Wake up. Sony and Nintendo aren't any better, but the last I checked they don't charge me play online, expand my hard drive, use my router, or charge my controller.

I have a 360 arcade from 2008, and while my friends bought the overpriced wireless adapter I simply used a network bridge to my laptop to get WiFi. It was annoying having to do this, but free is still better.

All future consoles should have WiFi built in though, but knowing MS they will probably put a 4GB stick with its basic SKU.
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Pre 2010 was a disaster if you wanted wireless in any form. Wireless headset, wifi, or something as stupid as a wirless plug and play solution. I can't believe rhetoric like this. Microsoft is known for the most draconian nickel and diming practices in the industry. The 360 is a hell of a machine, but that doesn't take away their corporate ethos on bending you over for every penny you have. Wake up. Sony and Nintendo aren't any better, but the last I checked they don't charge me play online, expand my hard drive, use my router, or charge my controller.

Pre-2010 maybe. But since then they've added bgn and support for USB drives. They're getting better.

Sony meanwhile even after two revisions haven't added n wireless.
 

Takuya

Banned
Pre-2010 maybe. But since then they've added bgn and support for USB drives. They're getting better.

Sony meanwhile even after two revisions haven't added n wireless.

There would be no point in them adding wireless n to revised PS3s since the original hardware spec didn't have it. It would add to the costs (even though minimal) which defeats the purpose of the revision.
 

Violater

Member
One thing I hope is that we get enough specs tomorrow to put some of the people that have been giving us "insider info" out of their misery.
 

Hana-Bi

Member
One thing I hope is that we get enough specs tomorrow to put some of the people that have been giving us "insider info" out of their misery.

Wouldn't count on that. I think they want to have some mysteries about the specs and let the internet speculate until e3.
 

Jadedx

Banned
I'm going to summarize what I know with regards to Xbox 3.

VGLeaks info has been accurate due to what the info is coming from.

- Always online/internet connection required
- No used games
- No BC

- CPU has increased performance over normal Jaguar cores.
- ~3GB and 2 CPU cores are reserved for the OS, apps, Kinect, etc.
- Xbox has a crazy (IMO) amount of hardware dedicated to audio tasks (e.g. gaming and Siri capabilities)
- Kinect is a pack in
- Same day digital releases for all games

If I learn anything new before I leave the boards, I'll pass it along.



For me I'm not going to write off Sony's audio direction at this point. With the change to Jaguar cores, they will need something competent in that area.


I don't thinks most of this is going to happen.

1. Always on will kill their market-share, A large portion of 360 owners have never connected to live; not to mention the large number of people with live that don't have consistent access to the internet. I think this is probably just a measure for the devkits to prevent leaks.

2. No used games? Like someone said MS would get sued into oblivion, not only in europe either. There would be a large law suit in the us and canada too.

3. No BC? Maybe, maybe not, I hope they keep the hardware bc thing though.

4. 3gb and 2 cores? This wont happen Durango won't need more than power than full blown Windows 8 64bit for multi tasking etc. Kinect won't need it either, kinect 2 will have it's own processor and it has a dedicated chip on Durango. Most likely this is just needed for the dev kits, just like how 360 dev kits used more than 32 megs of ram and more cpu power.
 

Takuya

Banned
I don't thinks most of this is going to happen.

1. Always on will kill their market-share, A large portion of 360 owners have never connected to live; not to mention the large number of people with live that don't have consistent access to the internet. I think this is probably just a measure for the devkits to prevent leaks.

2. No used games? Like someone said MS would get sued into oblivion, not only in europe either. There would be a large law suit in the us and canada too.

3. No BC? Maybe, maybe not, I hope they keep the hardware bc thing though.

4. 3gb and 2 cores? This wont happen Durango won't need more than power than full blown Windows 8 64bit for multi tasking etc. Kinect won't need it either, kinect 2 will have it's own processor and it has a dedicated chip on Durango. Most likely this is just needed for the dev kits, just like how 360 dev kits used more than 32 megs of ram and more cpu power.

Sued how? There is no legislation or law that requires a console manufacturer to allow you to play second hand games.
 

thuway

Member
I don't thinks most of this is going to happen.

1. Always on will kill their market-share, A large portion of 360 owners have never connected to live; not to mention the large number of people with live that don't have consistent access to the internet. I think this is probably just a measure for the devkits to prevent leaks.

2. No used games? Like someone said MS would get sued into oblivion, not only in europe either. There would be a large law suit in the us and canada too.

3. No BC? Maybe, maybe not, I hope they keep the hardware bc thing though.

4. 3gb and 2 cores? This wont happen Durango won't need more than power than full blown Windows 8 64bit for multi tasking etc. Kinect won't need it either, kinect 2 will have it's own processor and it has a dedicated chip on Durango. Most likely this is just needed for the dev kits, just like how 360 dev kits used more than 32 megs of ram and more cpu power.

This will kill Microsoft's chances in developing countries, but gaming has always been a luxury in places like Pakistan, India, etc. Always online, if either of these machine support it, will be met with a huge amount of vitriol.
 
This will kill Microsoft's chances in developing countries, but gaming has always been a luxury in places like Pakistan, India, etc. Always online, if either of these machine support it, will be met with a huge amount of vitriol.

I agree, I hope what BG heard is wrong. The part of me that loathes microsoft wants me to see them fall flat on their face (my hate comes from windows.. not xbox) but it would be bad for the industry.
 

Sky Chief

Member
We will see. That is the challenge for developers.

From the leaks we have now, it look like a machine with a very broad spectrum, more like a hybrid between PC and console. Zero cost OS features, interfacing with W8, WP8 and/or tablets. HDMI in. Skype build in? Always on human interface stuff? Support for WinRT apps? I can think of many things that devs can do that would be unique.

Maybe Orbis will have better graphics, but gameplay wise the Durango will offer a lot more "features". Will they be worth it? I dunno. Ask me end of next gen. But providing building blocks for devs is always a good thing. That is basically how the 360 managed to sell like crazy as well. MS is just taking it to the next level.

I think we all know that very few developers will take the challenge. This last gen really proved that. People on GAF always talking about "potential" of something new like Kinect or Move or 3D or cross platform play or whatever and then absolutely nothing ever coming from it.
 

Proxy

Member
Quite the opposite really. Looks like Durango is thinking outside the box, it is giving devs a lot more toys to play with. The real next gen console?

Is this the new "Orbis is brute force, Durango is efficient" argument? So Durango is the real next gen console because it has added complexity to smooth over design choices and Orbis is, what? Not a real next gen console because Sony chose a more straight forward design?
 

meta4

Junior Member
Is this the new "Orbis is brute force, Durango is efficient" argument? So Durango is the real next gen console because it has added complexity to smooth over design choices and Orbis is, what? Not a real next gen console because Sony chose a more straight forward design?

It is NemesisPrime. MS could sell the original XBOX as the new 720 and he would still fawn over it and say its the most perfect creation known to mankind.
 
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